BD standalone results/tests on DVDR of AVCHD, BD, FULLBD, CROPPED, HDAUDIO [Archive] - Page 2

turbojet

1st May 2009, 17:22

Both are in AVCHD format. 1st one is the STRICT one. 2nd one is almost the same, but has these unnecessary folders. I believe they are useful for testing AVCHD on DVD.

Samples probably won't fit any column, because 1st and 3rd don't represent real AVCHD.

Probably you'll have to remove multiAVCHD from AVCHD= legend, because it is not the same as tsMuxeR's AVCHD.

I removed multiavchd from avchd and I made room hopefully for another few columns.

I don't know if adding it would overwhelm the users to check 10 iso's. I don't know if some of them, like NEWBD could be omitted, although AVCHD vs. NEWBD vs. OLDBD was the first intention of this thread. I'd like to see if a player (Denon or Pioneer) that have issue with AVCHD try AVCHD_STRICT and those that have issues with OLDBD try AVCHD_AUX.

Maybe there's somehow the images can be reduced like dtshd+truehd+lpcm on the same iso?
Or maybe crop720+crop1080 on the same iso? problem is some players play crop1080 but not crop720 so far so that might not be good unless an avchd menu was used, which introduces another variable. Any have any ideas?

deank

1st May 2009, 17:31

CROP columns are unnecessary if you ask me. They are related to a playlist which would play a small black clip before unsupported resolution - nothing else. The unsupported clip/resolution (ie 1920x800/1280x544) will either play or not at all.

Because tsMuxeR's output is the base for all tests/columns (excluding FULL backup from BD-RB) I can't suggest anything that would keep track of all older tests performed last year.

For me there are 5 outputs:

1) Blu-ray - the one produced by BD-RB (Full Backup), tsMuxeR (new) with (o) Blu-ray output mode, multiAVCHD [Blu-ray for BD-R]
2) AVCHD (strict/real) - produced by multiAVCHD [AVCHD for DVD-R/BD-R] (no extra folders -just these in AVCHD_STRICT sample)
3) AVCHD (real) - produced by multiAVCHD [AVCHD for DVD-R/BD-R] with no [x] Strict AVCHD (with extra folders like these in AVCHD_AUX sample)
4) hybrid AVCHD - tsMuxer (old blu-ray), tsmuxer (new AVCHD), BD-RB "Movie only" - all with CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA
5) hybrid AVCHD - tsMuxer (old blu-ray), tsmuxer (new AVCHD), BD-RB "Movie only" - all without CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA

Dean

turbojet

1st May 2009, 17:37

Play or not is what this thread is all about though.

I think it would be pretty interesting to see what players do support it even though I don't crop I see a lot of talk on these forums about not being able to play their cropped encodes and it's fairly new.

Dropping OLDBD would be my first thought but its by far the most tested and I think it's a bit early to ditch it. Then NEWBD would be next even though bluray is still widely known as the mode to use for dvd and bd outside of enthusiasts and it would be nice to see if the output is really even needed outside of the BD35/55 VC-1 issue.

deank

1st May 2009, 17:44

I suspect (and I'm almost sure) that the problem with Panasonics and VC-1 video was that they won't play it unless they're tricked to see Blu-ray structure, hence the hex-edits to remove AVCHD parts from index.bdmv. And it works, because all other files (cpi/mpl) are already blu-ray, not avchd.

You're right about CROP720/CROP1080 - there may be players that won't play NC resolutions... and it doesn't depend on tsMuxeR's or multiAVCHD's options to overcome it by using a black-fill (which I think works only for PS3).

I hate your always off-line (invisible) status :D

turbojet

1st May 2009, 17:53

While NEWBD may fix VC-1 on DVD although I haven't seen any reports that it does yet it breaks AVCHD playback on DVD on the same panasonic BD35. I know VC-1 doesn't work on BD30 with AVCHD, NEWBD and OLDBD on DVD.

Surprisingly there's already been a few players that play the NC files. Although there's a lot of room for error on reports like positioning, aspect ratio and artifacts. I used a 16:9 picture with a near perfect circle in the center to hopefully reduce bad reports. I've also seen some reports that PS3 with NC hack is positioned at the top of the screen is that true?

And what was the conclusion with 1280x cropped resolutions on PS3?
1280x528 seems to be the slimmest widely used resolution from looking at reports and some old encodes I did. Which makes sense it's about 2.40:1 and it doesn't get much slimmer then that except the few cinerama films.

deank

1st May 2009, 18:03

You can say that PS3 doesn't support non 480/576/720p/1080i/1080p or you can say it supports all.

The problem with NC resolutions is that there is always top-alignment (one black/green bar at the bottom and none at top).

1920x... resolutions play in 1080p/1080i.
1280x >=584 play in 720p
1280x <584 always play in 480p.
720x576i play in 576p
720x <>576i play in 480p

turbojet

1st May 2009, 18:09

I would consider that watchable but not how it should be but I have a feeling there will be a lot of reports like that without giving much detail.

deank

1st May 2009, 21:23

Ryu77

1st May 2009, 22:11

Does the TrueHD track that you're testing have the embedded AC3 track?

Yes, of course. The MLP data is basically the difference of what was removed during the lossy process. So you can't really have the TrueHD track without the embedded AC3 core. Although, it is physically possible to do this, I don't believe that a playable track would result.

If I play that same disc (with a TrueHD track) on my PS3 and select bitstream, the core AC3 track is used (as the PS3 can not bitstream HD audio) and plays perfectly. That same disc also plays perfectly when I opt to decode the TrueHD within the PS3 and send 5.1 LPCM to my receiver.

turbojet

1st May 2009, 23:22

BTW a simple test you can perform with a full BD-RB or other BDMV source (if it doesn't work in your player and has no JAVA applications) is to convert it to AVHCD-like structure:

1) Use a copy of your original BDMV folder
2) Drag the BDMV folder to multiAVCHD
2x) Set [x] No menu / [x] No welcome screen / [x] Strict AVCHD
3) Let it create [AVCHD for DVD/BD-R]
4) Replace index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv with the original
5) Run goBD against index.bdmv

I may create a small tool that will do all this BD->AVCHD and backwards next days. It will flatten all differences between OLD/NEW/BD/AVCHD/etc and will make testing easier, without the need of re-processing everything again.

I'll try it out, maybe this weekend.

I added 6 iso's to the test pack.
avchd_aux
avchd_strict
avchd-dtshd
avchd-truehd
newbd-dtshd
newbd-truehd

Ryu77

2nd May 2009, 01:15

Update...

I just tested the LG BD370 and it handles TrueHD and DTS-HD MA perfectly from DVD media (AVCHD). This player also plays DivX and MKV! If only the other brands would start including such versatility.

So to summarize my findings so far...

- Sony BDP-S550 will not play DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD in AVCHD format

- Panasonic DMP-BD35 and DMP-BD60 plays DTS-HD MA but not Dolby TrueHD in AVCHD format.

- LG BD370 plays both DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD in AVCHD format.

turbojet

2nd May 2009, 02:58

Thanks I updated the first post.

I remember reading only the EU BD370's play mkv and divx, while the BD390 handles both worldwide. But I wonder if mkv has any limitations like resolution and audio, would you be able to check?

Also do you have a chance to check out FULLBD, CROP720, and/or CROP1080?

odin24

2nd May 2009, 04:09

... and possibly FLAC in mkv, if you have the time. Does the LG play DivX and mkv from BD, or DVD... or USB?

turbojet

2nd May 2009, 05:48

BTW a simple test you can perform with a full BD-RB or other BDMV source (if it doesn't work in your player and has no JAVA applications) is to convert it to AVHCD-like structure:

1) Use a copy of your original BDMV folder
2) Drag the BDMV folder to multiAVCHD
2x) Set [x] No menu / [x] No welcome screen / [x] Strict AVCHD
3) Let it create [AVCHD for DVD/BD-R]
4) Replace index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv with the original
5) Run goBD against index.bdmv

I may create a small tool that will do all this BD->AVCHD and backwards next days. It will flatten all differences between OLD/NEW/BD/AVCHD/etc and will make testing easier, without the need of re-processing everything again.

Tried this with 3 sources and playing on arcsoft TMT3 which is quite possibly the most leniant software player I've seen:
1. No top menu but popup menu. this worked OK with and without goBD.
2. HDMV menu, played title logo but quit when getting to menu after mAVCHD. goBD worked with BDRB output.
3. BDJ menu, mAVCHD crashed with couldn't find index error. goBD worked with BDRB output.

I think it's something to do with mAVCHD processing the menus. I also tried AVCHD V002 with same results.

Ryu77

2nd May 2009, 14:43

I remember reading only the EU BD370's play mkv and divx, while the BD390 handles both worldwide. But I wonder if mkv has any limitations like resolution and audio, would you be able to check?

Preliminary testing is indicating that there are no limitations on MKV files as long as they are within the Blu-ray spec (well, as far as encoding parameters are concerned. Resolution doesn't need to conform). However, if you have a file with say too many reference frames, the player can still play the file but presents you with a warning that the file may not play correctly. The file is then played with decoding issues (appears to be not decoding the larger number of reference frames correctly).

Also do you have a chance to check out FULLBD, CROP720, and/or CROP1080?

I can certainly test FULLBD when I can find the time but I have a feeling that it wont be a problem as this is the most multi format compatible stand alone player I have come across so far... However, I don't think CROP720 and CROP1080 are relevent for this player since you can simply burn the Matroska file to a disc or drop it onto USB media and play it from there with no modification.

... and possibly FLAC in mkv, if you have the time. Does the LG play DivX and mkv from BD, or DVD... or USB?

All three!! :-)

I don't think it will handle FLAC though...

Oh, and I forgot to mention it can accept .mp4 container format files too. By the way picture quality is excellent too! Also, it can play 720p and 1080p AVCHD at 24fps (unlike the PS3 which will only play 1080p content at the correct film frame rate of 24p). I like this player so much I took one home to keep today! :-)

deank

2nd May 2009, 14:47

Tried this with 3 sources and playing on arcsoft TMT3 which is quite possibly the most leniant software player I've seen...

I don't know if a software player is the best way to test...
Anyways.. there was a major problem in multiAVCHD when importing Blu-ray structures. Sometimes playlist files got broken - it is now fixed in build 562 - you can give it another try. Here is the build update info. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1280617#post1280617)

Ryu77

2nd May 2009, 22:46

turbojet, I just noticed that you entered in the DTS-HD compatibility (and TrueHD incompatibility) in the Panasonic DMP-BD80 column. It was actually the DMP-BD60 that I tested. :-)

turbojet

3rd May 2009, 07:31

Preliminary testing is indicating that there are no limitations on MKV files as long as they are within the Blu-ray spec (well, as far as encoding parameters are concerned. Resolution doesn't need to conform). However, if you have a file with say too many reference frames, the player can still play the file but presents you with a warning that the file may not play correctly. The file is then played with decoding issues (appears to be not decoding the larger number of reference frames correctly).

Ah sounds good, have you had the chance to check srt, vobsub in mkv playback?

I can certainly test FULLBD when I can find the time but I have a feeling that it wont be a problem as this is the most multi format compatible stand alone player I have come across so far... However, I don't think CROP720 and CROP1080 are relevent for this player since you can simply burn the Matroska file to a disc or drop it onto USB media and play it from there with no modification.

Maybe I can make a FULLBD sample to put in the pack over the next few days and a good point about the cropped avchd\bd.

turbojet, I just noticed that you entered in the DTS-HD compatibility (and TrueHD incompatibility) in the Panasonic DMP-BD80 column. It was actually the DMP-BD60 that I tested. :-)

Fixed, thanks.

I don't know if a software player is the best way to test...
Anyways.. there was a major problem in multiAVCHD when importing Blu-ray structures. Sometimes playlist files got broken - it is now fixed in build 562 - you can give it another try. Here is the build update info.

True it's not the best thing to test on but I have a feeling if the original BD plays and the changed one doesn't in TMT3 it would be the same on a BD player.

However in PowerDVD 8 and 9 it doesn't play things that regular BD players play like avchd output. I found out that it needs all the folders and V0200 bdmv's to play. IDEX doesn't make a difference.

I will test the latest version on TMT3 and if it plays I'll get it tested on a BD player.

Edit: With multiAVCHD 563 TMT3 still quits when it gets to menu.

Ryu77

3rd May 2009, 13:42

Ah sounds good, have you had the chance to check srt, vobsub in mkv playback?

I just tested a SubRip (.srt) subtitle stream muxed within an MKV file on the LG BD370 and it plays fine with subtitle displayed from USB media.

razvan_seed

3rd May 2009, 14:02

Hi Ryu77 and hi guys.I just bought a sony bdp-s500 and i don't know hot to make a movie h264 from mkv to play on it.Could you please help me?plssssI have also the ps3 and all of the movies i've made so far worked flawless on ps3 but the same movie doesn;t work on sony s500.I used mkv2vob in disc mode,just 1080p bd compliant and with ac3 and dts.Plsssss

razvan_seed

3rd May 2009, 15:26

turbojet

3rd May 2009, 23:37

No need to double post but try using tsmuxer with avchd output instead of mkv2vob. If that doesn't work in the s550 open the mkv with mediainfo, switch to text view and paste the width, height, encoding settings lines.

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 06:51

could you pls be more specific about encoding lines?plssss.And sorry about the double post.Net trouble.

turbojet

4th May 2009, 07:05

could you pls be more specific about encoding lines?plssss.And sorry about the double post.Net trouble.

Download mediainfo (http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en/Download)
open the mkv in mediainfo
go to view -> text
there will be a bunch of lines showing, 3 of them will be width, height and encoding settings, paste these

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 07:33

ok now done this but ,,where,, to paste those 3 lines?

turbojet

4th May 2009, 07:59

ok now done this but ,,where,, to paste those 3 lines?

in this thread

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 08:12

Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 816 pixels
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc=2pass / bitrate=9469 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 08:13

i want to make avchd and burn it into dvd-r or double layer to see it

turbojet

4th May 2009, 11:03

The only chance you have without encoding to a bd compliant resolution/level is to:
open mkv/m2ts with tsmuxer 1.9.6+
make sure add blank playlist is checked in the bluray tab
choose avchd output
set output path
start muxing

If this doesn't work you'll have to encode the video at 1920x1080 (4 or less reference frames) or 1280x720 (9 or less reference frames)

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 12:06

and if the video is bd compliant,i mean like 1920+1080 and level 4.1,what do i have to do and with what program.And do i have to delete some folders from the resulting avchd?

turbojet

4th May 2009, 12:22

Mux with AVCHD with TSMuxer or a front end like multiAVCHD or popBD. You shouldn't have to change anything with the output.

G_M_C

4th May 2009, 12:42

Well, the first post is incorrect for the pana BD30. I've got a AVCHD disk, made with an older version of TSMuxeR, and it plays DTS-MA fine. And i've got the feeling that it plays the BD-output of the newer versions of tsMuxeR too. But i havent got a project to do atm, so no test material ready; Might try one later (will give direction on how it's made if applicable).

turbojet

4th May 2009, 12:47

G_M_C

4th May 2009, 13:23

I tested out the dtshd and truehd samples in the pack yesterday. It played the video but it didn't detect an audio track. However I'm not sure the DTS-HD and TrueHD samples made with TSMUxer 1.10.1 are working, my first try with HD audio on DVD and no one else has tested it yet. Can you try it?

I've got one that playes for shure (and has done for many weeks now ;) ) The DTS-MA is streamed to and recognised/decoded by my Onkyo.

turbojet

4th May 2009, 13:33

I've got one that playes for shure (and has done for many weeks now ;) ) The DTS-MA is streamed to and recognised/decoded by my Onkyo.

It would be nice to find out why the different results. Since I had a brutal time cutting DTSHD and TrueHD I have a feeling it's the sample I made but need you test it. You could also try cutting a sample of your playable one for me and I can test it.

razvan_seed

4th May 2009, 15:50

what about subtitles in avchd?should be srt or pgs?

turbojet

5th May 2009, 09:49

You got it razvan_seed.

G_M_C I removed DTSHD THD results from panasonic BD30 until we can solve this. Would anyone else be able to test avchd-dtshd.iso and avchd-truehd.iso on a player that's known to support HD audio on DVD?

razvan_seed

6th May 2009, 05:44

ok now guys.i've made a 650 mb sample of a movie in 1080p(1920+1080p) +dts+srt+pgs with multi avchd and with tsmuxer 1.9.9.only the one with tsmuxer worked.my sony bdp-s500 is going to have a lot to work to do with the discs i will be making.

Ryu77

6th May 2009, 09:09

I don't mean to ruin the flow here but isn't this meant to be thread related to discovering compatibility between different players with HD video placed on DVD media?

You started the thread turbojet so it's your choice but I really think that razvan_seed should be pursuing this type of questioning on an alternate thread.

turbojet

6th May 2009, 09:45

I added all BD software players I know of except Arcsoft Theatre 2 which I don't have to the original post in case anyone is interested.

ok now guys.i've made a 650 mb sample of a movie in 1080p(1920+1080p) +dts+srt+pgs with multi avchd and with tsmuxer 1.9.9.only the one with tsmuxer worked.my sony bdp-s500 is going to have a lot to work to do with the discs i will be making.

Have fun. Do you remember if you used strict AVCHD folders and what type of output (AVCHD for USB, AVCHD for DVD, or Blu-ray for BD-R) you used with multiAVCHD? Be better to answer this in the multiAVCHD thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143744) so the developer has a better chance of seeing it and could possibly fix it.

I don't mean to ruin the flow here but isn't this meant to be thread related to discovering compatibility between different players with HD video placed on DVD media?

You started the thread turbojet so it's your choice but I really think that razvan_seed should be pursuing this type of questioning on an alternate thread.

It's fine with me as long as it doesn't turn into a lengthy discussion.

G_M_C

6th May 2009, 10:37

Another new fact to report; Made a test-run of an 720p30, wich isnt supposed to be an official standard (720p24(25) / 720p60(50) are). But an clip AVC/H264 @ 1280x720 @ 29.97 ("720p30") burned on DVD+RW works fine on my BD30 :)

Used tsMuxeRGui 1.9.8 (cannot find 1.9.9 ?) at AVCHD output. Will try BD output later.

Wishbringer

6th May 2009, 15:10

Used tsMuxeRGui 1.9.8 (cannot find 1.9.9 ?) at AVCHD output.

look at http://www.smlabs.net/tsmuxer_en.html, it's official release.

G_M_C

7th May 2009, 08:26

look at http://www.smlabs.net/tsmuxer_en.html, it's official release.

Found 1.10.1 allready.

Next up for the rapport: Blu-ray output doesnt work with Pana bd30. AVCHD does, even the 720p30. But i cant reccomend using 720p30, cause the player seems to produce tremendous banding. I seems to reeinterlace the source and then to bob it ... or something ... to reach the specified 720p60. The image is not very good, and the banding allmost doesnt appear (90% less or so) when the clip is played on my PC screen.

turbojet

7th May 2009, 08:43

Found 1.10.1 allready.

Next up for the rapport: Blu-ray output doesnt work with Pana bd30. AVCHD does, even the 720p30. But i cant reccomend using 720p30, cause the player seems to produce tremendous banding. I seems to reeinterlace the source and then to bob it ... or something ... to reach the specified 720p60. The image is not very good, and the banding allmost doesnt appear (90% less or so) when the clip is played on my PC screen.

I wonder if you hacked some files so it appears as 30i if it would work any different.

Have you been able to check out the avchd-dtshd.iso and avchd-truehd.iso from the test samples in the first thread yet?

deank

7th May 2009, 08:59

avchd-dtshd.iso works in Playstation3.

G_M_C

7th May 2009, 09:33

I wonder if you hacked some files so it appears as 30i if it would work any different.

Have you been able to check out the avchd-dtshd.iso and avchd-truehd.iso from the test samples in the first thread yet?

Nope, my system has been crunching macroblocks with x264 ;) Nice exercise for my QX9650 @ 3200 (8 x 400) :devil:

But will get those test-iso's as soon as i'm able to actually run the tests.

Anyways, no hacking. Just ended up with a video that was 1080i60, which i had to deinterlace, en keeping is 1080p isn't very practical after deinterlacing, so i enden up with a video that was 1280x720 at 29,97 progressive frames a second. Simply selected the RawAVC in tsMuxeR setting the rate to 30000/1001 worked (to my surprise !). But i see more banding this way, then when played directly on the PC.

odwoh

9th May 2009, 16:09

Sony BDP-S550 , 015 firmware

c1080 works
c720 plays but has a split screen

turbojet

10th May 2009, 08:42

Sony BDP-S550 , 015 firmware

c1080 works
c720 plays but has a split screen

Does the C1080 display a round circle or is it tall and skinny?

Discoboy

10th May 2009, 12:28

@ turbojet,

I also posted this to you in the TsMuxer thread

I found that the latest PowerDVD’s players very strictly comply with AVCHD format!

Tests made with TsMuxer 1.10.3 in AVCHD mode

If you burn the AVCHD ouput files to a DVD and play on PowerDVD, ALL versions of PowerDVD will play with NO problems and also NO problems on a SAP Panasonic BD35

If you make an ISO image of the AVCHD ouput files and mount on a virtual drive on the PC then play on PowerDVD only version 7.3.3119 or below will play it. Versions upto 9.0.1531 will NOT play it.

So it seems the latest versions of PowerDVD will only play AVCHD via DVD media

If add the following empty folders to your AVCHD output files:
BDMV: add “BDJO” + “JAR” + “META”
BDMV\BACKUP: add “BDJO”
Then make an ISO image of the AVCHD output files and mount on a virtual drive on the PC and then play on PowerDVD, ALL versions will play it

So I believe the problem is with PowerDVD very strictly complying with AVCHD format.

To prove this point a DTS 1.5Mbps sound stream is not officially supported in the AVCHD format and if used on a AVCHD burned DVD, PowerDVD’s after version 7.3.3119 it will NOT play the DTS sound. If you instead make a ISO image + the missing folders with DTS sound, ALL versions of PowerDVD will play the sound

Regards
Discoboy