TsMuxer 1.8.30 Still wont work with Panasonic

[rotty]

TsMuxer 1.8.30 will still not author a working disc on Panasonic players if original Blu Ray is VC-1 encoded. The strict structure requirements are still not being met by TsMuser.
If you say extract the main movie from a VC-1 encoded Blu Ray original and burn to disc, the result will make the Panasonic players show HDMI in the display continuously and NOT play.
H264 encoded discs seem to be ok.
The only way that anybody has been able to make a VC-1 authored disc work with the Panasonic players is by using the way out of price range Scenarist.

[idbirch2]

Did this really warrant a whole new thread? (That's rhetorical by the way, the answer is no). Do what everyone else has done with their TSMuxer problems and email SMlabs (mailto:tsmuxer@smartlabs.tv). They have been very prompt at fixing problems reported by other members.

[rotty]

I don’t know if this warrants a new thread or not but it affects more players as updates are loaded onto them and the Blu Ray structure is enforced. A high number of discs are VC-1 encoded and therefore this IS a major problem.
Problems with HD audio etc will pale into insignificance if this is not resolved.
I have emailed smlabs but not received reply. Its is not just tsmuxer, there is no authoring software that will work with the exception of Scenarist $$$$$.

[idbirch2]

Hm, very dramatic. Are you sure this is affecting "more players" because I've only ever heard of these sorts of problems from Panasonic owners? I seem to recall that Panasonics always seem to throw up problems for people developing apps like BDRebuilder, fixclpi, MultiAVCHD etc as well. If this problem is brand specific, I guess it may be difficult for the TSMuxer devs to reproduce if they don't have that specific player. All I know is, I'm glad I don't own a Panny BD player.

Edit: Maybe this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1228707#post1228707) post and the one it links to are of some help?

[rotty]

The Panasonic is the best player in its league, better by far than the Sony S500 which is a lot more expensive.
The fact it wont play these burned discs is not the fault of the player but the fact that these rendered discs don’t properly conform to structure, this is why Scenarist WILL create correct discs that play. As for more players now exhibiting problems with VC-1, I have heard that some Samsung players are having trouble after update, I don't know if its model specific and I haven’t got access to any of these players to try myself.
Do you or anybody know if Slysoft is anywhere near to a Clone type program for Blu Ray.

[turbojet]

Better for xvid maybe actually only ones that can do this as far as I know. But I would still take a sony 350 that I can backup full BD's to BD5/9 and play with menus/extras and all.

Skysoft seems to have a closed alpha testing of CloneBD right now.

[rotty]

The Panasonic will play BD5/9 discs that have been drived from VC-1 because as you know, BD5/9 are re-encoded to H264 and therefore ok. I want to keep the full quality and not re-encoded for all the obvious reasons.

[UltimatePain]

Hi to all of you,

ok, I'm already registered for a while but this is my first post, as I was only reading till now.
So a nice hallo to all of you.

I just want you informed that I'm in contact since last weekend with Roman from smlabs - very nice guy and high responding. :)
As I also own a BD-35 I'm having the same problems with tsMuxeR and VC1 encoded discs as all the others around.

I've got in the meanwhile 2 test versions (that generates BD still not working) and I'm testing on my Panny - till now I've eliminated mpls,clpi,m2ts for causing the problems ....
Most likely it's either the MovieObject.bdmv/index.bdmv or some missing id.bdmv or missing AACS (including content) folder in the structure.

Tests are ongoing - but my time in the evening is limited (looks like I'm working to much :mad: ).

I'll keep you informed.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[nwg]

Has anyone tried burning just the bdmv folder and not the certificate? I have to do that with BD5/BD9's on my Sony S350 or I get no disc errors.

In the UK, the panasonics are more expsensive than the Sony's by quite a bit. I would be peeved to pay what they cost and not have VC-1 discs working.

[rotty]

Just to clear up what may be misunderstood info and perhaps confusing. The Panasonic WILL play VC-1 disks.
They WILL even play ripped VC-1 disks that are copied in whole, i.e just by having AnyDVDHD running in background and using standard windows to copy the whole disk to hard drive, then burning ALL the files to disk. THIS WILL WORK.
What they wont play is interfered with VC-1 disks, i.e. if you have selected a stream or streams to copy, movie only for example.
They will even play this type of disk if done with Scenarist.
Thanks for news Ultimate Pain and hello.

[UltimatePain]

Hi,

finally we have found the bug - I've done a working copy yesterday evening :cool:

The playback problems are because of the MovieObject and index files.
I've search a little bit the Internet and found the following:

AVCHD headers
index.bdmv - INDX0100
MovieObject.bdmv - MOBJ0100
PLAYLIST *.mpls - MPLS0100
CLIPINF *.clpi - HDMV0100

Blu-ray headers on BD-RE
index.bdmv - INDX0200
MovieObject.bdmv - MOBJ0200
PLAYLIST *.mpls - MPLS0200
CLIPINF *.clpi - HDMV0200

I've crosschecked with the original files are using the BluRay-Headers while tsMuxeR use the AVCHD header.

From specification point of view (http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html)
it looks like that VC1 is not supported in AVCHD standard.

And as I work for a Japanese company I know how Japanese are working :angry:
- If it's not in the standard we will not play it back as it is not allowed.

Roman from smlabs is already informed about this issue and he will release a new version with this fix.
But don't ask me when - most likely he will be fast (what I've seen in the last days from him :thanks:).
But he will also have to update the GUI, as he now has to split AVCHD and BluRay creation because of the different headers.

But there is still one small bug:
- The time inside of the stream isn't been displayed. :confused:

I'm having a status button on the remote control.
Normally if I press this I'm getting an OSD with Chapter, actual play
time and total play time.
But on the copied disc I don't get anything of this - there are just some minus signs telling me that this information is not available ....
Jumping to the next chapter works fine without any problems.

Something seems to go wrong ... and at the moment I don't have any idea what it is.
The clpi seems to be OK, otherwise I would expect problems with the chapter jumps.

I'll do further testing - hopefully there is a chance to fix this also.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[deank]

If you have these --- signs instead of time/chapter/title it means your player is 'thinking' that the current title is a MENU, not a real playlist title or user-actions UO are disabled in the mpls file (such as title search, chapter search, etc...) or there is incorrect PLAY command in movieobject.bdmv.

[UltimatePain]

Hi Dean,

thanks a lot for this hint.
I've had a short look to the bdmv files with BDEdit.
tsMuxeR said first playback: Interactive
Same generated with Sonic says Movie.

Then it would make sense to me, but also with the Sonic generated one I'm having no times displayed.
But thanks a lot for the hint - most likely I've missed something else - or I've done an error with the Sonic.
I'll have a deeper look to these files.

btw. I'm also following your multiAVCHD thread - looks that it will become a very great program.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[deank]

As I already posted here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1258566#post1258566)

...It is not a good idea to have Title#0 (top menu) and Title#1 (main movie) to share the same objectID. While playing a title as TOP menu - navigation is handled differently and information displayed on SAPs LCD or TV is different, too. The best way is to have a simple Jump title #1 for top menu, Play PL MK 0,0 in title#1 (if your mpls file is 00000.mpls), BREAK to quit playback.

[UltimatePain]

Thanks Dean,

not easy to understand, but I'll do some test tonight with BDEdit.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[dread]

UltimatePain, wow, great find with these headers.

When using multiAVCHD (and fixing headers of course) time info is being shown in OSD on my BD35. With or without menu.
So I guess you have to compare tsmuxer and multiAVCHD's commands and voila!

[deank]

What do you mean by fixing headers?


multiAVCHD always produces AVCHD headers for all bdmv/mpls/clpi files - 0100 - not 0200.

*** edit ***

Someone should have pointed this out earlier... It seems that I've 'commented' the line to correct clpi header to 0100 and somefiles are left with 0200.

It is fixed now in build 471 of multiAVCHD. Thanks for the information.

Dean

[dread]

I mean fixing headers for VC1 playback in Panasonic BD players.
Loading VC1 to multiAVCHD and creating multiBD gave me time info in OSD and when using tsmuxer there is not.

Now also time info in tsmuxer works for me.
UltimatePain - try this:

index.bdmv created by tsmuxer (first 6 lines):
49 4e 44 58 30 31 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 78
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 22 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 26 40 00 00 00 40 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 40 00

fixed index.bdmv:
49 4e 44 58 30 32 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 22 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 26 40 00 00 00 40 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 40 00

Don't know how but this second index.bdmv gives me time info when using tsmuxer + VC1 on my BD35

[deank]

The value you're changing (from 0x78 to 0x00) is part of the pointer to the extended descriptor (available only in AVCHD index.bdm(v) file - IDEX section). When this pointer is 0x00000000 (offset bytes 0x0c - 0x0f) it means that the index file is for BluRay disc (not AVCHD).

So it makes sense.

[laserfan]

...finally we have found the bug... The playback problems are because of the MovieObject and index files. I've search a little bit the Internet and found the following:

AVCHD headers
index.bdmv - INDX0100
MovieObject.bdmv - MOBJ0100
PLAYLIST *.mpls - MPLS0100
CLIPINF *.clpi - HDMV0100

Blu-ray headers on BD-RE
index.bdmv - INDX0200
MovieObject.bdmv - MOBJ0200
PLAYLIST *.mpls - MPLS0200
CLIPINF *.clpi - HDMV0200

I've crosschecked with the original files are using the BluRay-Headers while tsMuxeR use the AVCHD header.I just looked at these, and yes tsMuxeR 1.8.34 is putting-out MOBJ and INDX with 0100, while .clpi and .mpls are 0200.

So you're saying that you can fix it simply by editing the header of the two .bdmv files to 0200?

[UltimatePain]

Hi to all,

thanks for all the replies - and finding the bug was not so hard - more time intensive.
I've generated a 'working' (not for the time display) VC1 muxed disc with Scenarist.
And Roman from smlabs was so nice to egalize the tsMuxeR output to the Scenarist output - not so mutch just a fixed PTS offset and using 00000 instead of 00001.
And the - just replacing file by file in the Scenarist generated - burn - test - until the Player stoped playing.
Then I was having the MovieObject and index identified and from there to finding the reason searching the Internet was easy :)

I've just returned home - so not more than one test possible (have to go to work again tomorrow :o ) - But I've modified the index and MovieObjet in a way that should be right in my understanding (most likely my understanding is wrong :) ).

I'll report tomorrow (for some reason my BD-RE is only written in 1x speed - so it took a while).
But I hope to find the final settings over the weekend.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[SomeJoe]

I'll report tomorrow (for some reason my BD-RE is only written in 1x speed - so it took a while).


If you are burning with ImgBurn, go to Settings, go to the Write tab, and check "DVD-RAM / BD-RE FastWrite" to enable 2x write speed.

(Took me ages to find that, by the way). ;)

[dread]

Well, I've tried it on three different VC1 movies (Dark Knight, Matrix, Strangers) and everything works like a charm on my BD35 - video, audio, chapters, time info...

[UltimatePain]

Hi SomeJoe,

I'm using ImageBurn - and I've already seen this option (for me it took longer to find the option not to format the disk (in case of rewriteable) before fully writing )

But at the moment I don't want to take the risk that I miss a working configuration just because something has gone wrong due to writing the disk.

But tahnks.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[UltimatePain]

Hi dread,

Well, I've tried it on three different VC1 movies (Dark Knight, Matrix, Strangers) and everything works like a charm on my BD35 - video, audio, chapters, time info...

Let me guess - you are doing 1:1 copy (used BD-50) and if you have used AnyDVDHD lower than version 6.5.2.6 (or was ist the 6.5.2.8 where it was fixed?) you are not removing BDLive and Region code?

Am I right? - No? :)

Then you are using BD-Rebuilder and reencoding the viedeo to x264?

Am I right? - No? :)

Then please tell me what you are doing !
If you are using tsMuxeR tell the world how you manage this. :)
I've read through the whole internet - and have found nobody that has used tsMuxeR successfull with stripping down and BD-35.

If you tell me you are using tsMuxeR and stripped down movie only for example - you are the only person out there who has it working.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to spend 13€ for a BD-50 for just every movie - for some special - OK, but not because it's just VC1 coded.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[UltimatePain]

Just to inform you:

My first try hasn't worked :devil: - as I was expecting.

I'll take the disc structure with me to work - have to get some deeper understanding of the MovieObject and index stuff!
Forunetly our customers are silent at the moment ... my boss is not inhouse - and nobody is understanding what I'm really doing :)

The stuff Dean has written is very interesting - but I'm still not fully throgh it.

Damned I would like to have a real Spec. but till now I've not found anything.



cu,
Ultimate Pain

[dread]

But what's not working for you ? Disc doesn't play at all or just no time info in OSD or using status in remote control ?

Yes, I use tsmuxer v1.8.34(b) with GUI v1.8.30.
First thing I'm doing is demux whole disc using eac3to. Then I add in tsmuxer streams which I want to stay and set output to create blu-ray disk.
Next thing - I'm using hexedit and modify index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files created by tsmuxer.

That's how index.bdmv looks before:
49 4e 44 58 30 31 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 78
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 22 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 26 40 00 00 00 40 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 40 00

and after:
49 4e 44 58 30 32 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 22 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 26 40 00 00 00 40 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 40 00

MovieObject.bdmv before:
4d 4f 42 4a 30 31 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

and after:
4d 4f 42 4a 30 32 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I do not add any commands in bdedit, etc. just modify tsmuxer's files using hexedit.
Copying fixed index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files also to BACKUP folder, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
Burning with ImgBurn to BD-RE DL.

That's all. Everything works on my BD35 with latest firmware.
You might want to try first with a few minutes sample - just use tsmuxers cutting.

[UltimatePain]

Hi dread,

thanks for the information (an PM has send to you).
I'll give it a try tonight.

Yesterday I just didn't have had the time to do this - created disc plays (I#ve changed 0x31 to 0x32) but not displaying time!

Big thanks for the help!

The change from 0x31 to 0x32 I fully understand. But what does the change from 0x78 to 0x00?

Edit:
Just looked up my index.bdmv file -> I'm having a 0x00 at offset 15. -> But no time being displayed

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[dread]

The change from 0x31 to 0x32 I fully understand. But what does the change from 0x78 to 0x00?

click here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1263461#post1263461).

Edit:
Just looked up my index.bdmv file -> I'm having a 0x00 at offset 15. -> But no time being displayed

Check also rest, especially 6th row, 10th column. There should be 0x02, not 0x00. I had there 0x00 when I was using scenarists index.bdmv at first (and not tsmuxers one) and I also didn't had time displayed.

[UltimatePain]

@dread:

OK - understand - offset 0x0c-0x0f.

And changing offset 0x59 from 0x0 to 0x2 make the ObjectId for first playback invalid?! Right?!
Seems that I've go deeper into that materia.

@all:

I've got some updated information:


Some addition information about version number inside bdmv files (from official sony documentation "System Description Blu-ray Disc Read-Only FormatVersion 2.01 DRAFT3"):

version_number: A four-character string that indicates version number of the index.bdmv file.
This field shall have a value of "0200" or "0100" coded according to ISO 646[31]. It is recommended to
use a value of "0200". If this field is set to "0100", any HDMV or BD-J applications associated with this
file (e.g. applications contained on the same disc) shall not include Region Playback Control functions.

So, code "0100" is correct code for blu-ray disks too.


Looks like there is either a problem with the Panasonic FW - seems to go into the same direction that ripped disc if the Region Code or BDLive content was removed with AnyDVD where not playable in the Panasonic,
or the Standard has been changed (as it is Draft - nevertheless it seems to me very actual), or Panasonic is stricter than the standard (but this is once again a FW bug, as also professional authored discs may not be playable in that case).

EDIT:
I've had again a look to the tsMuxeR generated files ...
The 'normal' tsMuxeR is using 0100 in the header for index and MovieObject while in clpi and mpls the 0200 is being used.
Maybe this is confusing the player?!
I'll also give it a try tonight.

EDIT END

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[dread]

I don't think you are using index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv generated by tsmuxer 1.8.34b... I've loaded yours to bdedit and mine looks completely different (you have only one command PLAY PL 0 in each objects, first playback at 0, etc).

Try with tsmuxer 1.8.34b, fix it's headers, and don't forget to change offset 15 in index.bdmv from 0x78 to 0x00, otherwise disc won't play at all.

[UltimatePain]

Hi dread,

thanks for the hint - I'll try this really tonight.

Maybe you are right, I haven't used 1.8.34 but I think it was 1.8.30.
BUT in the last days I've played around with so many versions official ones and some I've got from smlabs that it could be that I've screwed something up.

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[dread]

I've had again a look to the tsMuxeR generated files ...
The 'normal' tsMuxeR is using 0100 in the header for index and MovieObject while in clpi and mpls the 0200 is being used.
Maybe this is confusing the player?!
I'll also give it a try tonight.

If you mean changing all files headers to 0100 instead of 0200 I tried it on 5min VC1 sample just a while ago.

Played the disc and I got vertical lines, and a couple of seconds later player automatically restarted and ejected the disc.
But changing 0x78 to 0x00 on index.bdmv makes it playable with working time display.

[UltimatePain]

Hi dread,

you have been totally right - woks like a charm.
Playing with time, chapters, everything working.

I'll inform Roman from smlabs - I'm sure he'll fix it in next (one of the) next release/s.

Thanx a lot :thanks:

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[rotty]

hi Dread

ive tried it

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC

We all owe you dearly

THANKS A MILLION

[deank]

To conclude all:

your players will play BD (0200 without IDEX) structures or AVCHD (0100 with IDEX) - like those multiAVCHD produced, is this correct?

Please let me know, as it seems that we've found one of the cornerstones here...

[laserfan]

I use tsmuxer v1.8.34(b) with GUI v1.8.30.
First thing I'm doing is demux whole disc using eac3to. Then I add in tsmuxer streams which I want to stay and set output to create blu-ray disk.
Next thing - I'm using hexedit and modify index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files created by tsmuxer.

That's how index.bdmv looks before:
49 4e 44 58 30 31 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 78

and after:
49 4e 44 58 30 32 30 30 00 00 00 4e 00 00 00 00

MovieObject.bdmv before:
4d 4f 42 4a 30 31 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

and after:
4d 4f 42 4a 30 32 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I do not add any commands in bdedit, etc. just modify tsmuxer's files using hexedit.
Copying fixed index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files also to BACKUP folder, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
Burning with ImgBurn to BD-RE DL. That's all. Everything works...
Many thanks dread for your post!

:thanks:

[rotty]

Forgot to ask, is there an easy way to stop the movie repeating after end of file. When I played the movie only, and film and titles have finished, the movie will start again.
Sorry to put it so plainly, but wanted to make sure you knew what I am asking.

[deank]

If you use HEX editing you can change tsmuxer's movieobject.bdmv at offset 0x5a from:


21 81 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00


to


00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


If you use BDedit, you can replace "Jump Title 1" in MovieObject.bdmv program #000 to BREAK (Branch/GoTo/Break).

[rotty]

Thanks Deank

[deank]

If you're going for BDedit you'll need to

1) Select the line with "Jump Title 1"
2) Click add command (the plus sign "+")
3) Select the line with "Jump Title 1"
4) Click remove command (the minus sign "-")
5) Select the No Operation line - "NOP"
6) Select Branch / GoTo / Break

or

simply use HEX fields in BDedit and after step 1) - replace values:

in 1st HEX box: 21810000 to 00020000
in 2nd HEX box: 00000001 to 00000000

Dean

[rotty]

Thanks Deank
Wasnt having much luck with bdedit until info you just gave me.
Thanks very much

[laserfan]

BTW I asked Smlabs if they could make this "repeat" behavior Optional and they agreed, so we hope to see in a future update. :)

[dread]

To conclude all:

your players will play BD (0200 without IDEX) structures or AVCHD (0100 with IDEX) - like those multiAVCHD produced, is this correct?


No, Panasonic will play BD 0100 or 0200 without IDEX (0x78 to 0x00).
0100 with IDEX - vertical lines on my player, and a few secs later, eject of disc.
0200 with IDEX - black screen, player hangs up, does not respond to any commands.

[dread]

Sorry deank - I didn't read your post carefully. Yes, you are right.
What I said is correct for VC1 stream.

[rotty]

In tsmuxer, is there an option, or any other way to keep the original chapter positions. I always get whatever tsmuxer is set to for chapter periods.
IM OVER THE MOON WITH THE VC-1 FIX
Is it ok to apply the changes to the index and movieobject files for discs other than VC-1, i.e. H264.

[dread]

Is it ok to apply the changes to the index and movieobject files for discs other than VC-1, i.e. H264.

Panasonic plays VC1 burned on BD with headers for all files set to 0100 or 0200 without IDEX only.
Panasonic plays H264 burned on BD with headers for all files set to 0100 or 0200 with or without IDEX.
Panasonic plays H264 burned on DVD (or copied to pendrive, etc) with headers set to 0100 with IDEX only.

[rotty]

In tsmuxer, if you say tick the box to down convert HD DTS to standard DTS for example, is there any way of knowing what the end file size will be before you actually wait for the ptogram to mux, just so you know if it will fit on a 25G disk.

[UltimatePain]

Just got a mail from Roman:

Good news!
Today I'll update version. New version will have two separate mux mode for AVCHD and Blu-ray.

for AVCHD mode:
- all files will be have 0x100 code

for Blu-ray mode:
- all files will be have 0x200 code
- putting to offset 0xf in index.bdmv value 0x00 (remove link to BDMV extended data).
- truncate index.bdmv to 0x78 ( I will truncate file because from 0x78 to the end of the file placed BDMV extended data with AVCHD descriptor. Thus better to delete this descriptor from file).


So have a look on smlabs-page!

cu,
Ultimate Pain

[deank]

Such general approach will break playback functionality in more players than it will fix in those with minor/no problems with tsmuxer output.