New DivX 7 H.264 codec

[djloewen]

The announcement on the DivX webpage mentions that DivX-Plus certified devices will begin appearing in late 2009.

Also, my understanding is that Windows 7 does not have .mkv functionality built-in. Check the announcements carefully (and the blogs of the people who have tried W7) - I think it just plays MPEG-4 ASP and H.264 (as well as just about everything else), it's not actually "DivX certified" and certainly not "DivX-Plus certified".

In reviewing past posts from DivX, and given that they (silently...) updated the alpha CLI encoder to function until March, it does seem clear that they intend to release a final CLI encoder sometime soon. I'm sure it will have only a small percentage of the options available to x264 users (and it would probably be silly and wasteful for them to try to compete with that hardcore-enthusiast segment of the encoder market), but it will be a big step up from this Converter. Personally I welcome it. What annoys me is that they haven't said a word about it since releasing the new codec. I'm sure they're busy with CES or something, I guess we'll just have to be patient.

Besides an update on the happenings of the CLI encoder, the other thing I'd really like to hear from them is what kind of non-video specs they require in order to certify devices as DivX-Plus. Will such devices be required to handle chapters, tags, subtitles? Will they be able to handle (and depending on the device, downmix) 5.1 audio? What audio bitrates? If we had these specs we could at least begin encoding compliant videos using x264.

On the decoder end of things, I see things from a very different point of view. We have all been able to create and play .mkv videos for some time, and DivX isn't really improving that situation (although I do welcome their additions to the encoder/decoder fold). The reason I'm cheering DivX on is because of their "it just plays" mentality. I like the idea of a video standard, like mp3 became the audio standard, that will play on anything.

So with that in mind, while it may play videos cleanly and efficiently, what sorely disappoints me is the lack of polish in how it handles .mkv with Windows Media Player. After installing it (with no other splitters or codecs installed), WMP played the video, but only after asking for my confirmation because it didn't recognize the extension. It wouldn't allow me to add .mkv files to my WMP library, much less sort them with tags. The files didn't show up in Media Center at all.

While I am perfectly capable of making the videos show up in Media Center by editing the registry (or installing another splitter/codec), I fear that this will sorely hurt DivX's (and our) long-term goal of .mkv acceptance. Another real problem in that direction is that the new Windows 7 seems to be able to natively play just about everything video-related (including H.264 and AAC audio), except the .mkv extension.

I personally would love to be able to tag and sort my videos in Windows Media Player just like I do with mp3s, and it's that sort of end-user functionality that could make or break DivX's chances of taking this mainstream. I strongly urge DivX to do what they can on their end to make this happen, and to push Microsoft to do their part as well. As it stands, when Windows 7 comes out, .mkv may turn out to be the format that mainstream computer users avoid like the plague.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

the amount of cash divx has got from m$ to put it in windows 7 must be completely crazy :eek:

Where is that info from?

I already know that Windows 7 will include H.264 and MPEG-4 ASP decoders. But did they really license DivX's decoders ???

[rtjnyoface]

I think its great that Divx was able to get hardware manufacturers to support divx7 but man, with the extremely limited abilities of Divx 7 I don't think that 1) there will be many people buying hardware just interested in divx certification and 2) that because of their choice in the direction of divx 7.

No VFW and only able to use it with converter. Boy, I don't think that they're going to have as prosperous a future as they did in the past.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

No VFW and only able to use it with converter. Boy, I don't think that they're going to have as prosperous a future as they did in the past.

They still have the H.264 CLI encoder in the making. If they ever release it, DivX 7 may actually become interesting for us...

[DigitAl56K]

Strange DigitalAK not around to answer our queries ?

Sorry guys, I got caught up in our launch activities and some work for CES and needed to catch some Zzzz's ;)

Is it going to be 64 bit compatible, XVID has already gone 64 bit

It will become 64-bit compatible. In this regard it's likely that work on the ASP elements will be finished first and 64-bit builds of the H.264 components willbe released via DivX Labs when they're ready.

nice! too bad they didn't tell betatesters :rolleyes:

EDIT : it does seem to offer lower latency than CoreAVC :eek:

I'll be sending e-mail to the beta groups today. During the course of the launch we also changed the website back-end and we needed to monitor how it performed before driving too much traffic. You may have noticed the site was a little slow over the past 48 hours but should be getting better now.

Glad you like the performance :) I think it's great that there's a high-performance H.264 decoder available for free now, and there are ongoing improvements that we'll continue to release via DivX Labs soon.



I take this to mean they don't support mp4 file format.
They're history from day zero, as far as i'm concerned. You can't make an H.264 codec without supporting its native container, full stop.


Yes you can! DivX 6, if you remember, is an MPEG-4 ASP-based codec and we use it in an AVI container. Xvid does the same. While you could argue that we should have used MP4 for DivX 6 and not AVI it would have been much harder to promote MP4 in a world where VFW applications dominated and our CE devices would have required much more memory to deal with indexing, making the entire format much less likely to succeed. Therefore MP4 was not the best choice of container for DivX 4/5/6. DivX 7 again brings a selection of technologies together. We chose the MKV container for DivX 7 because it has been well designed, supports our needs well, and has gained traction across many toolsets. The MP4 container might be the "native" container because it's part of the same specification suite, but that alone does not necessarily make it the best choice.

This all being said, in future we may have expanded playback support for MP4. Currently DivX Player will allow you to play content in an MP4 container if you have QuickTime installed by virtue of the QuickTime API, but this implies decoding is done via the QuickTime engine and codecs and thus playback performance may not be as good as when the DivX H.264 decoder is used.

MKV needs a splitter, MP4 lots of other things can do it hence the specific MKV support, it will probably decode in MP4 as well as its just not specifically stated.

The DirectShow decoder filter is not restricted - if you have an MP4 splitter it should work.

Is DivX Plus™ HD encode profile = h264 encoder? Or is it just a tweaked MPEG4-ASP profile with more options suited to HD video? *confused*

@audyovydeo
DivX could have just packaged Haali's Splitter (a la CoreAVC) to support the .mp4 container.

DivX Plus HD uses H.264 video. DivX Plus devices will be able to decode both DivX 6 (ASP) and DivX 7 (AVC) content. In the DivX 7 bundle the DivX 6 encoder and decoder are still included and DivX Converter 7 will output to either DivX 6 profiles or DivX Plus HD depending on the setting in the main window.

It's difficult to package code that we don't have access to and control over for legal reasons unfortunately. We also need our own splitter regardless. The DirectShow splitter we provide will grow in terms of functionality over time. We install it with a low merit so that if you already have a preferred splitter we don't override it, but if you don't have a splitter already we extend support for the MKV container to your DirectShow media applications.

@ricardo
Try http://labs.divx.com/WebPlayerCodeGeneratorBeta to use DivX webplayer instead. I assume the DivX Webplayer supports .mkv as that is their output container.

Web Player is going to be updated to support the DivX Plus HD content but this isn't included in the 7.0 release which focuses on the initial steps required to allow people to work with the format: Free high-performance playback in DirectShow applications, an easy to use Converter application and support in DivX Player. Again, keep your eyes on DivX Labs. If you're interested, subscribe to the DivX Video Publishers group there. Unfortunately I'm unable to talk too much about future release dates.

I guess it would but the already widely spread Flash player supports mp4/avc.

For example if i open a website and start posting videos i wont ask people to install divx to watch videos, youtube, dailymotion, vimeo, veoh etc etc etc etc everyone uses the flash player (small instalation file) to stream flv or mp4/avc.

I'll be fair and say that there are of course benefits to both players :) With Flash you have a larger pre-existing install base that can just click-through and start playing. With DivX there's a higher probability that any given visitor does not already have the DivX Web Player installed, but there are also side benefits. For example, DivX Web Player has always supported full-screen mode, has a windowed mode and also a nice desktop dimmer that makes the viewing experience much nicer. End users can save the media to their desktop without installing any special applications to snatch the content from the page, and can then play it back very easily in pretty much any player they like so long as DivX is installed, which is of course free. Good flv playback is not easy to come by. A benefit to the site operator and the user is that DivX Web Player allows users to save the cached content, so that saving the file doesn't consumer 2x the bandwidth and download time. Then of course you can take the content to any DivX Certified device, stream it via DivX Connected, and so forth.

well the divx mp4 file is streaming properly now... i had to manually execute the command "mp4box -inter 500 test.mp4" with mp4box.

So to stream avc/mp4 with divx i had to:

1- convert with the divx converter
2- demux the mkv with MKV Extract
3- remux the h264 video and aac audio files with yamb to mp4
4- aplly the command "mp4box -inter 500 test.mp4" with mp4box


with the free solutions out here most all of them all they need is for the user to select the video and conversion profile, only avanti doesnt move the "moov" atom to the begining of the mp4 file but that easily overcomed by doing step 4 above

For my streaming needs i have to say that x264 and free programs outhere can do the same and without so many "steps"

I'm glad you got this working! Keep in mind though that the goal of DivX Plus is not to output streaming MP4 files, so I am not surprised that there are other methods with fewer steps ;)

Same here: I can't play big_buck_bunny_1080p_h264.mp4, but on the other side I can play TS-files.

MKV is the container used and supported by DivX Plus HD. See above regarding MP4 playback support. There is a copy of Big Buck Bunny on our showcase page (http://www.divx.com/en/downloads/divx-7-showcase).

Well, I'm testing the DivX Converter 7 right now and all I can say is: it's fast (took me about 10 minutes to encode a 4min 720p60 video, on a stock Q6600). You should be aware that you need to select DIVX PLUS HD for H264. For the first time encoding with it, I selected 720p HD (well, it was the format I wanted after all) and ended with a DivX v6.8.5 ASP encode.

What kills it is not being able to configure absolutely anything: resolution (keeps the source), H264 specs, bitrate (which is locked to 5 Mbps for 720p and 8.5 Mbps for 1080p)... you can't even change the output filename.

This is only the first version of Converter and more options will be added. If you'd like to help us prioritize them send me a PM with an ordered list of what is most important to you to tweak.

EDIT: Just tested 1080p. Video quality was really good too. Kinda slow to encode, though.

...

The decoder on the other hand is pretty fast! It's amazing how it plays 720p 60fps on my old Turion MK-36 (single core) notebook with very little frame loss. CoreAVC and ffdshow-mt got competition! If the free decoder is the same that is on the Pro trial, I would say it is the best H264 decoder available for free today.

Conclusion: While being a major evolution from DivX 6, it's not competition for x264 if you're an advanced user. It's like perfection for average users who just want to compress their footage and don't care about advanced settings, though. Congrats, DivX!

Dark Eiri, I will raise up several of the points from your post to our product group so that they can be addressed. I'm glad you like the decoder! In terms of advanced encoding, we have a command line encoder available at DivX Labs which has been available for a while. We're working on updates to it (again, I can't elaborate on release dates), but it does provide more configurability than DivX Converter and will accept AVISynth scripts as input. There's a tutorial on the Project Rémoulade (http://labs.divx.com/projectremoulade) group homepage on using the command line encoder together with a handful of other tools to create a complete DivX Plus file.

But a software player supporting MKV and not MP4 is like a bicycle with 24 speeds without the brakes

Brakes are for wimps!

<rant>
In the grander scheme of things, 10 / 20 years down the line, we'll all be using VC1-in-WMV only because H.264-in-whatever is becoming a helluva fragmented field, with files encoded to the H.264 standard by encoder X unable to play back on (software or hardware) player Y.

Bingo! DivX is trying to prevent this exact problem. We're now delivering free playback software to several millions of users every month that can play H.264/AAC Surround/MKV. We're also working to certify devices to support this format also. If you want to create content that lots of people are going to be able to play easily then authoring in this format is a good way to go.


Already-seen scenario, now playing out in the video world.
Guess us "enthusiasts" will still be chatting around here about x264 r0.98.8437 and DivX12.4
</rant>

Hopefully not. As I'm sure I'll still be repeating on my death-bed: It's okay to use x264 ;)

Nice to see Divx on H.264 and AAC. Advanced users already have advanced H.264/AAC codecs like x264, Nero and Apple AAC. But fast H.264 decoder and one more big company wich supports H.264/AAC is really usefull for even faster adoption of H.264.

The final version of H.264 decoder seems to be identical to Beta3 in perfomance field.

For 7.0 the code was frozen around Beta 3 save a few bugfixes so that we had a stable build to integrate into Player, Converter, and so forth. However, work on the decoder has progressed simultaneously and more beta versions can be expected to be released through DivX Labs.

yep i wonder how the industry is gonna accept it a lot of parts of the content (downloadable high quality) is in WMV these days and .mov isn't adapted so fast and in reality i would like it more to see DivX and the Mainconcept Encoder become successful here then Apples Crap :D, though of course many will still prefer WMV because of the users they can reach with it but many go already multi encoding for their content so DivX H.264 could become a option (and who says you have to use Mainconcepts Encoder ;) ), though it also depends on the Licensing as WMV is easy in those regards you use it and don't care about anything :) sure you support Microsoft with that and their Monopol but most content provider don't care about that.

I award you 5 bonus points for the longest sentance!

I personally find content in .mov quite tedious to work with. QuickTime on the PC does not support all of the same codecs as it does on the Mac either for playback or export and support for DirectShow filters is poor. Kind of strange for a product that's been running on Microsoft platforms since Windows 3 ;) WMV is better although I think MS could do a better job of optimizing their codecs for performance. Certainly H.264/AAC/MKV has a much better potential for cross-platform support I think.

It could push .MKV indeed and DivX Goal is clear they try the same strategy back with ASP though times changed and not sure if it will work the way they think these days :). I hope we gonna see new Devices from the Industry leaders gonna support .MKV it worked back then with .AVI though most go the .mp4 route these days so establishing .MKV as the Standard will be hard though by a great part it is in the Hands of the Consumer himself how successful it will be and that is what DivX Inc builds it's strategy on :)

One of the key benefits DivX brings to the community is that we want to take the key technologies you're working with and use our influence to bring very broad support for them to market. The launch of DivX 7 means that we will deliver free software playback support into the hands of tens of millions of people this year, if not more. As we continue to improve the software we will also extend this to consumer electronics making the reach of content in this format very extensive.

So, that CLI alpha encoder we were testing... it's gone? We have no way of using the DivX encoder outside of the Converter application?

No, it's not gone! It's still available on DivX Labs and there are not only plans to update it but also to grow the number of tools we provide for the community. I should be able to elaborate more on this in the near future.

i use their ASP encoder and im quite happy with it, but why the DIVX PLUS? To get money on licensing divx plus players? it seems bad to me from a consumer point of view taking in consideration that current bluray players/PS3 play MP4/H264.

Because it is not only in Blu-ray players that we want to support an interoperable format. It is set-top boxes, digital televisions, portable media players, digital still cameras (video recording), digital video cameras, in-car players, gaming consoles, mobile phones, and of course those digital picture frames we love so dearly! :)

So, the DivX Player seems to have problems with my .MP4-files (it stutters). But the same files are playable with WMP11+DivX H.264 with no problems.

Something about performance: With 1080p24 (average 25 MBit/s) the DivX H.264 Decoder has some problems on my X2 4200+, CoreAVC works fine.

MP4 files are going through the QuickTime architecture, implying our decoder is not used. As noted above native MP4 playback support is something we're considering, and at that point performance for MP4 playback would be as high as for MKV playback.

[DigitAl56K]

The only CLI encoder I can find in my DivX folder is the "old" Alpha demo of the DivX H.264 encoder, which has expired

The download was replaced some time ago with a version that does not expire until March.

google can't even seem to find beta 1...

I won't buy the new DivX 7 until it does have a vfw codec
another strange thing is that in redoing their website they took away the link to the forums, which still exist and are in the old site theme

they should have another release out soon though

The omission of the forums link was an oversight and will be addressed later today.

Do you really want a VFW codec? On one hand we hear "AVI sucks!", while on the other I see people still asking for a VFW encoder, which is puzzling. For most cases is it not true that you are working with AVISynth through VirtualDub, in which case you can simply pass your AVISynth script to the command line encoder anyway? Most of the front-ends I see are using x264 command line or a built-in library version, and anything using x264 CLI should also be able to use DivX CLI (once we add some of the features that have been requested).

I'm intersted to hear more on why the VFW is critical to you, please drop me an e-mail, amayo (at) divxcorp [dotcom].

Well, Alpha-1 wasn't public either. Only for selected "Beta Testers". I guess the same applies Beta-1 now.

But obviously access to Decoder Beta-3 and Encoder Alpha-1, which I have, doesn't give you access to Encoder Beta-1.


I'm going to open up access to the CLI encoder in the next 24 hours.

As far as purchasing I wont until they include the cli in the package.

Currently the CLI is available separately for free, and playback in DivX 7 is also free. Good deal, no? :)

CruNcher & Dark Shikari: The encoder core in our CLI encoder will be updated, I promise :)

Unfortunaly DivX7 AVC don't use the best setting available for Mainconcept SDK.

The settings will be improved going forward, and even today they do give very high quality output. The command line encoder was used to create all of the content on our showcase page.

Disappointing showing from Divx. Any File that I would want to use this on is missing x codec or y codec. It's absolutely useless unless I do pre-rendering through AVS.

New divx converter for all your divx to divx conversions!!! :devil:

Which formats? PM me :)

I looked at the .mkv files produced by Converter 7 (like this one (http://www.mediafire.com/?xyzmlxq2onz) found earlier in the thread) and these files have numerous problems.

Steve, I will need to ask our engineers to look into these issues and get back to you.

Is there a certification program for this new version? So is there a label we should be looking for in the future? Or is it still gonna say "DivX" or something?

DivX Plus(TM) HD is the name of the certification program for video up to 1080.

It does still concern me why Divx has resorted to that dumbed down interface once again for their premier encoder for Release.

Why they think if its not "" iPod "" easy to operate people wont buy it. The only reason I like x.264/Xvid above any others is NOT because they are free though it helps. Its because I have Advanced Options...

More options will be added to both DivX Converter and the DivX H.264 Command Line Encoder. Please keep in mind that DivX Converter 7.0 is only the very first release.


Also, my understanding is that Windows 7 does not have .mkv functionality built-in. Check the announcements carefully (and the blogs of the people who have tried W7) - I think it just plays MPEG-4 ASP and H.264 (as well as just about everything else), it's not actually "DivX certified" and certainly not "DivX-Plus certified".

That's also my understanding.

In reviewing past posts from DivX, and given that they (silently...) updated the alpha CLI encoder to function until March, it does seem clear that they intend to release a final CLI encoder sometime soon.

The expiration date was set to March only because we did not have a fixed timeline for the final release and the existing alpha version expired. You will see betas appear on DivX Labs.

I'm sure it will have only a small percentage of the options available to x264 users (and it would probably be silly and wasteful for them to try to compete with that hardcore-enthusiast segment of the encoder market), but it will be a big step up from this Converter.

Converter will have more options, but it is designed primarily as an easy to use drag-and-drop encoder. It's not the kind of tool we'd expect the majority of users at Doom9 to use. This is why the command-line encoder exists: So that when it's finished you can build any toolchain you like around it, or integrate it as an option into any existing tool chain alongside x264.


Personally I welcome it. What annoys me is that they haven't said a word about it since releasing the new codec. I'm sure they're busy with CES or something, I guess we'll just have to be patient.

Again, sorry for the short delay! With the software release, website update, and CES all happening simultaneoulsy it's been an incredibly busy period for us.

Besides an update on the happenings of the CLI encoder, the other thing I'd really like to hear from them is what kind of non-video specs they require in order to certify devices as DivX-Plus. Will such devices be required to handle chapters, tags, subtitles? Will they be able to handle (and depending on the device, downmix) 5.1 audio? What audio bitrates? If we had these specs we could at least begin encoding compliant videos using x264.

I will get these to you. Any GUI developers interested in creating compliant options please e-mail me, amayo (at) divxcorp [dotcom].

On the decoder end of things, I see things from a very different point of view. We have all been able to create and play .mkv videos for some time, and DivX isn't really improving that situation (although I do welcome their additions to the encoder/decoder fold). The reason I'm cheering DivX on is because of their "it just plays" mentality. I like the idea of a video standard, like mp3 became the audio standard, that will play on anything.

What we're improving is the reach of this content through broad interoperability, free playback software, and CE devices. All of this will grow over time. Yes, you have had the capability to create MKV videos for some time, and it's because we recognize that certain technologies are best-in-class that we've adopted them for DivX 7.

So with that in mind, while it may play videos cleanly and efficiently, what sorely disappoints me is the lack of polish in how it handles .mkv with Windows Media Player. After installing it (with no other splitters or codecs installed), WMP played the video, but only after asking for my confirmation because it didn't recognize the extension. It wouldn't allow me to add .mkv files to my WMP library, much less sort them with tags. The files didn't show up in Media Center at all.

I noticed this as well recently (WMP is not my preferred player) and it should be easy to fix in our installer.

Another real problem in that direction is that the new Windows 7 seems to be able to natively play just about everything video-related (including H.264 and AAC audio), except the .mkv extension.

I haven't tried it myself but I've heard the Windows 7 decoder is not too fast and may be limited to media foundation apps.

I personally would love to be able to tag and sort my videos in Windows Media Player just like I do with mp3s, and it's that sort of end-user functionality that could make or break DivX's chances of taking this mainstream. I strongly urge DivX to do what they can on their end to make this happen, and to push Microsoft to do their part as well.

We're actually discussing ways to improve this situation already.

They still have the H.264 CLI encoder in the making. If they ever release it, DivX 7 may actually become interesting for us...

You have no stronger advocate for imrpoving the CLI encoder than me :) It will happen!

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Currently the CLI is available separately for free. I'm going to open up access to the CLI encoder in the next 24 hours.

You have no stronger advocate for imrpoving the CLI encoder than me :) It will happen!

Good news :thanks:

[Sagekilla]

Glad to hear that you guys are going strong with mkv. Does it seem likely that you'll get hardware support for it, since you guys are backing it?

Also, is there going to be the possibility to decode H.264 content that was encoded outside of a DivX converter on a SAP? I'd love to be able to stick x264 + AC3 streams in mkv on a DivX SAP and have them playback on my new projector :)

[hajj_3]

thanks for the replies digital56k, i still believe that divx7.00 is half-baked, this should have been an alpha release as no .MP4 support, Poor divx converter and no Cli just isnt a product at all, its an alpha. If you waited 3 months until you were ready and all these things were fixed then your launch would have been great but as it stands its just not really a format which is a shame, was hoping everything would be ready and ps3 and 360 would add support in their next updates but i think i'm just hoping too much. Hope you add divx7 HD support to standard dvd players, standard dvd player can play divx and xvid, nearly all new players can, would be great to have divx7 support which would also allow us to playback 720p and 1080p x264 5.1 .mkv files. Instead we have to use media players like popcorn hour etc but the software on those isnt very good and they are rather expensive.

I'll have to be patient for a £70 upscaling dvd player with divx7/x264 support.

Could someone link me to info about windows7 having native support for h264, aac etc, didnt know about this at all, would like to read up about it.

[Dark Shikari]

thanks for the replies digital56k, i still believe that divx7.00 is half-baked, this should have been an alpha release as no .MP4 support, Poor divx converter and no Cli just isnt a product at all, its an alpha.Well, you can't be too hard on them. I heard they're a bit short-staffed right now. ;)

[djloewen]

Man, you guys can be snarky sometimes :). Thank you DigitAl56K for your very thorough replies, and I eagerly await updates on the CLI encoder.

[keeperofdakeys]

they should have another release out soon though
The omission of the forums link was an oversight and will be addressed later today.

Do you really want a VFW codec? On one hand we hear "AVI sucks!", while on the other I see people still asking for a VFW encoder, which is puzzling. For most cases is it not true that you are working with AVISynth through VirtualDub, in which case you can simply pass your AVISynth script to the command line encoder anyway? Most of the front-ends I see are using x264 command line or a built-in library version, and anything using x264 CLI should also be able to use DivX CLI (once we add some of the features that have been requested).

I'm intersted to hear more on why the VFW is critical to you, please drop me an e-mail, amayo (at) divxcorp [dotcom]

it would appear that I was under the influence of something, maybe I should resay what I mean

It's not that vfw is critical, it's because it is the way I do it,
and humans don't like change, but I'll be a cyborg soon enough ;p

I mostly use the ffdshow filter in virtual dub at the moment, so I don't have much of a need to lookup AVIsynth filters but I guess I will need to now, since i'll be using a CLI encoder

I currently have not used CLI encoders for video, only audio
so i'm just a little cry baby, and I need to grow up a bit


and having just comiled my own copy of ffmpeg, there is no time like the present

[Ajax_Undone]

Originally Posted by Ajax_Undone View Post
It does still concern me why Divx has resorted to that dumbed down interface once again for their premier encoder for Release.

Why they think if its not "" iPod "" easy to operate people wont buy it. The only reason I like x.264/Xvid above any others is NOT because they are free though it helps. Its because I have Advanced Options...

More options will be added to both DivX Converter and the DivX H.264 Command Line Encoder. Please keep in mind that DivX Converter 7.0 is only the very first release.

OK I will trust in this bit but I still don't see Converter getting anymore advanced then v.6.6 With out a complete interface redesign. Please don't disappoint.

By the way if your getting equal feedback on vfw and cli you should just produce both and take the cut. Cuz obviously there is some people who still like vfw.

[Ajax_Undone]

Well, you can't be too hard on them. I heard they're a bit short-staffed right now. ;)

Na I think hes right. its peaty much vaporware:sly:

[ChronoCross]

By the way if your getting equal feedback on vfw and cli you should just produce both and take the cut. Cuz obviously there is some people who still like vfw.

Why would you say this? Seriously it's the only thing they got right with this rushed release was no VFW encoder. Maybe now we can start seeing tools designed to use the Divx CLI since all major encoders have moved away from VFW

[Shinigami-Sama]

unrestricted 5.1 h264 decoders?


no such thing exists as dark shikari said elsewhere...

[rtjnyoface]

I have to give credit where credit is due. Al, you seem to be doing a very fine job. I'm sure being the one to respond to the many complaints from a very, very large group of people is quite difficult (especially from all us doom9 folks). For your work, I thank you.

:goodpost::thanks: Al

[Kurtnoise]

Seriously it's the only thing they got right with this rushed release was no VFW encoder. Maybe now we can start seeing tools designed to use the Divx CLI since all major encoders have moved away from VFW
the DivX 7 bundle still provides the vfw interface (6.8.5) encoder...see DigitAl56K's answer above.

[Ajax_Undone]

Why would you say this? Seriously it's the only thing they got right with this rushed release was no VFW encoder. Maybe now we can start seeing tools designed to use the Divx CLI since all major encoders have moved away from VFW

Just figured find some happy ground... No use in breaking what is not yet broken. Some like vfw ok let em have it. some like cli let me have it. :D

http://forums.divx.com/forum/viewTopic.php?id=6726

From Divx's own community...:D:D

[Sagittaire]

You have no stronger advocate for imrpoving the CLI encoder than me :) It will happen!

Well I have here a very better CLI version of Mainconcept SDK. It's very simple for you to compile Mainconcept SDK executable with all the native command. With this very old CLI I produce very better output than DivX7 AVC. Here very simple optimisation:

I made test with your DivX H.264 Encoder Alpha 1. I have similar result for quality and speed with my previous test with Mainconcept/Elecard Encoder. Anyway your encoder is really not complete:

1) Quality profil are too restrictive:
5 or 6 profils for quality will be really better: fastest, fast, normal, good, best and insane for example or [0-5] for aqo.

2) Psy optimisation:
There are possible and very usefull psy optimisation with Mainconcept H264 SDK. Film grain optimisation [0-100], AQ with luma masking [-100;100], AQ with contrast masking [-100;100], AQ with complexity masking [-100;100].
Why not to implement this command: -psy <AQLuma>, <AQContrast>, <AQDetail>, <FGO>
My prefered setting for MC SDK is -psy 33,-33,-33,50

3) Buffer and Max rate
With this command line for example -vbv <maxbitrate>,<buffer>

[tsal]

I installed Divx 7 and tried to play a h.264 .mkv file with media player classic home cinema, with all its internal codecs off.

All i got was a black picture and stuttering sound.

Turns out that windows xp provides the wrong codecs for the playback.

I have Nero 8 installed, and only the nero burning part, and it also installed a lot of codecs.

So windows xp gives the nero codecs, nero splitter and decoder, to my player, and not the newly divx 7 codecs.

I tried to fix this by adding all 4 or 5 divx codecs in mpc-hc and setting them to prefer, this didnt work (maybe a bug in current mpc-hc), but the only thing that solved it was to add the nero codecs and set them to block.

So, playbacks of h.264 .mkv files with divx 7 in mpc-hc and windows media player 11 are broken because of an installed nero 8 version, even in the lightest install mode.

You definatly need to add a codec filter priority option to fix this, or all nero users will be left outside.

[DigitAl56K]

A few updates:


Anyone can now download the alpha CLI encoder. Create a free DivX Labs account (http://labs.divx.com/user/register), login and join the Project Rémoulade Apps group (http://labs.divx.com/og/subscribe/7406?destination=node/6536) - an open group that does not require moderator approval, and then download the installer (http://labs.divx.com/node/6536).
DivX.com forums nav link is fixed
robU*4: We've already started to look into the file writer issues you listed
djloewen: I've logged an issue on support for the .mkv extension in WMP, hopefully it will be addressed in the next update to our installers.


Glad to hear that you guys are going strong with mkv. Does it seem likely that you'll get hardware support for it, since you guys are backing it?

Yes, you can see some announcements (http://investors.divx.com/releases.cfm) already :)

Also, is there going to be the possibility to decode H.264 content that was encoded outside of a DivX converter on a SAP? I'd love to be able to stick x264 + AC3 streams in mkv on a DivX SAP and have them playback on my new projector :)

Yes, that should work. DivX Converter will not be the only way to create DivX Plus HD video.

rtjnyoface: Thanks for your kind words :) Sometimes the forums can be a little tough, but it's important to hear everyone's opinions even if they can be harsh sometimes so that we can get a better sense of where we are doing well and where we can improve. I hope with this release everyone does see good things starting to come out of DivX 7. For example, the free high performance H.264 decoder, AAC decoder, and a much improved DivX Player. Better support for the MKV container in CE should also be a big deal. Clearly there are areas that we need to improve in upcoming releases though: The H.264 CLI encoder needs to be updated and Converter could use more options, among other things. One of the reasons I'm here is to be a voice for the community inside our team. The feedback you provide helps me give input into our priorities as we move forward so that we can build out more of the tools and functionality you want to see faster. DivX 7 has arrived in its "point zero" release this week, and my hope is that as we hit .1, .2, and so on we can address a lot of the issues raised here so far and others that will follow in the coming days.

Sagittaire: I'm passing your comments on to our codec team :)

Thanks to all who have commented so far. Time for a quick nap, back in the morning!

[DigitAl56K]

tsal, in the MPC options go to "External filters", add the DivX H.264 Decoder to the list of filters, make sure it's checkbox is on, it's at the top of the list, and set it to "Preferred" on the right of the dialog.

[tsal]

I tried that, using the newest official version of mpc-hc, all internal codecs and filters unchecked, added divx h.264 decoder and set to preferred or set to high merit, it doesnt get used.

I always get the nero splitter, and the nero audio decoder 2.

Only blocking those 2 works for me.

Its an x264 .mkv file with mp3 sound.

Maybe another user who also has nero installed can tell his experience ?


edit:

Ok, i think this is a bug or limitation in mpc-hc.

After testing i found out, that if you enable all internal codecs and filters of mpc-hc, and then after that set the divx h.264 decoder to preferred, then it works.


But that still leaves the problem of nero 8 and probably 9, too, it kills the divx 7 h.264 playback :(


edit2:

Ok, some more finetuning, for my .mkv file to work with a preferred divx 7 decoder in mpc-hc, the matroska source filter must be checked and activated, thats it, otherwise preferring wont work, only blocking.

[ncahammer]

Will support VFR encodes ?
I get
Framerate outside profile specification (24.0119Hz) (312155000/12999987)

[xaeroak15]

It seems that it can't decode x264 track in mkv file automatically?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

It seems that it can't decode x264 track in mkv file automatically?

Does work properly here:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6662/divxx264yj4.th.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6662/divxx264yj4.png)

[Sharktooth]

works here too.

[xaeroak15]

Well,it works~
I've used gspot to set the meirt.
and also checked the AAC decorder both aac and realaac work well~

[robU*4]

Steve, I will need to ask our engineers to look into these issues and get back to you.

Great! At least the invalid IDs should be fixed. The timecode issue may be due to the source (if you use DShow and its timestamps), but it should not make a badly interleaved file. (in case of "timecode reset" you can use another Segment)

For the rest, it's just optimizing.

Anyway, I appreciate all the effort from DivX to make Matroska available on even more CE devices. It looks like 2009 will be the year where Matroska is available outside of computers :D

[ChronoCross]

the DivX 7 bundle still provides the vfw interface (6.8.5) encoder...see DigitAl56K's answer above.

I know this....that's not important with DivX 7 as h264 is the primary addition to 7. 6 has always been vfw so I pay no attention to it.


Just figured find some happy ground... No use in breaking what is not yet broken. Some like vfw ok let em have it. some like cli let me have it. :D

http://forums.divx.com/forum/viewTopic.php?id=6726

From Divx's own community...:D:D

The primary point is that AVC was never meant to be used in vfw. While using hacks you can put it in vfw doesn't mean you should as it's been dropped altogether from every AVC implementation I can think of.

[Ajax_Undone]

Hey DigitAl56k Tell you what make a GUI interface that is par with most of the x264 apps here and I will shut up. I don't care if you sell it. I just want to see evidence of our idea's put to fruition.

Until this happens there is not a chance in the farthest reaches of time and space that I will ever consider giving divx any credence.

P.S. ChronoCross I Never meant to paint the picture of AVC being vfw. I meant to paint the picture for a new asp vfw codec for the continuance of current asp mpeg 4 video.
And now reading this I feel silly for even stating that a new version be produced... The current one works just fine...

[djloewen]

Hey DigitAl56k Tell you what make a GUI interface that is par with most of the x264 apps here and I will shut up.

What if they make the CLI, and members of the Doom9 community make the GUIs? Isn't that good enough? Personally I don't need the GUI, I'm happy doing everything from batch files.

[Ajax_Undone]

Yeah well Proof is all I ask besides that Most of Doom9 are staying with the tried and true x264 as am I. So I figure if they don't build it it will not get built..

[DigitAl56K]

As I'm sure I'll still be repeating on my death-bed: It's okay to use x264 ;)

Aside from this, did we not previously have a discussion where several developers both here and over at divx.com said they specifically did not want to be put in the position where their own applications would be competing with a front-end built by DivX (e.g. Dr DivX)?

I don't understand the source of your cynicism, we're steadily working towards making more updates and tools available. I think Project Rémoulade has been a very good recent example of how we can respond to your feedback and requests, and it will continue to be so.

[DigitAl56K]

Will support VFR encodes ?
I get
Framerate outside profile specification (24.0119Hz) (312155000/12999987)

You need to convert it to constant frame rate. There is a table of permitted rates in the tutorial at the labs as well as suggestions for converting between rates using the internal filters provided by AVISynth.

[Ajax_Undone]

My main criticism comes from the laughable tools such as converter and the stupid fact that you expect people to purchase an mpeg 2 decoder just to use its limited interface to pop a dvd into it... 10 dollars better spent elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong its just the way I see it. Its very hard to take any CS BS PR crap. I do have high hopes for the CLI app and believe it to be your resurrection if done right.

I think as far as Divx Corp is concerned I would take and make consumer versions of the codec plug-ins inside of MainConcepts Reference app might do some good also.

Anyhow I am just offering what I think. No hard feelings. K

[DigitAl56K]

Okay, but I think we've established now that you don't like Converter and that it wasn't designed for this more technical audience.

Agree that the CLI app has the potential to be good. Let's see how that works out :)

[Shinigami-Sama]

Okay, but I think we've established now that you don't like Converter and that it wasn't designed for this more technical audience.

Agree that the CLI app has the potential to be good. Let's see how that works out :)

you mean its targeted at an audience that won't realize its broken?

[Sharktooth]

Okay, but I think we've established now that you don't like Converter and that it wasn't designed for this more technical audience.

Agree that the CLI app has the potential to be good. Let's see how that works out :)
a directshow encoder filter wont be bad too... ;)

however, converter is just a POC... my suggestion is to spend more time into Dr. Divx instead of wasting your resources into Converter.
also, i had a discussion with kurtnoise in the megui private forum on sourceforge. he suggested to add the divx cli support to megui but i answered we have a free h.264 encoder already included (x264), so divx cli support would not be the no.1 priority.
that may change if you divx guys just tell us "do it.. OR BE EATEN!" (...couldnt resist (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=pFYXdv03Sbk&fmt=18)...) ;)
awaiting an answer...

[CruNcher]

CruNcher & Dark Shikari: The encoder core in our CLI encoder will be updated, I promise

nice to hear if you make at least Complexity masking available (AQ) and improve slightly the Encoder Performance (AQ will lower it once more) it would be a good start.
Indeed the Performance of Microsofts Consumer Encoder isn't so good but did you ever compared the Performance of x264, Mainconcept SDK and Elecard SDK in those regards Mainconcept is still behind, though this also depends on the used toolset, with RD for example all of them (H.264) come very close these days :)

Also how does it look with DSP manufactures are you working closely together in the Labs with MediaTek on their new MT14xxXX series ?

[Sagittaire]

Little comparison with ParkRun show that DivX7 AVC is the worst AVC codec in area for this source.
Today AVC codec without AQ is not realy competitive. Even VC1 from MS produce better quality here.

[CruNcher]

See here for some 1 Pass Broadcast Performance/Quality results though this is heavily HVS influenced based on my Balancing work (would have never been possible without Dark_Shikari joining x264) :)
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1225626&postcount=16

[Sagittaire]

See here for some Performance/Quality results though this is heavily HVS influenced based on my Balancing work (would have never been possible without Dark_Shikari joining x264) :)
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1225626&postcount=16

For parkrun ateme produce the best quality at high quantizer because Ateme have really advanced HVS tools at high quantizer. Mainconcept produce good quality with AQ and FGO here. Anyway DivX7 AVC don't use AQ, FGO or even latest SDK build. It's really strange ... :devil:

[CruNcher]

Yep they do heavy HVS research :)
Sagittaire for me it looks like the old Game why should Consumer get the latest and greatest instead give them some outdated stuff build nice graphics around it and they be happy.
The same though Nero does with it's Customers and Nero Digital the Encoder Core is so outdated, it doesn't really show off what Atemes Encoder is capable off, i hope though they gonna react now with DivX 7 and gonna implement the new 3.x Core then DivX 7 looks old ;)

[IgorC]

Yep they do heavy HVS research :)
The same though Nero does with it's Customers and Nero Digital the Encoder Core is so outdated, it doesn't really show off what Atemes Encoder is capable off, i hope though they gonna react now with DivX 7 and gonna implement the new 3.x Core then DivX 7 looks old ;)
Why would they do that? They didn't include new gen of H.264 in Nero when x264 became most popular H.264 codec.

[shon3i]

Why would they do that? They didn't include new gen of H.264 in Nero when x264 became most popular H.264 codec.
Because it probably wants to be Ateme name for quality and not Nero ;)

[Sagittaire]

Why would they do that? They didn't include new gen of H.264 in Nero when x264 became most popular H.264 codec.

Well psy option exist since very long time in Ateme core codec and you can use this option in Nero.

[Selur]

Btw. any plans to support Yv12 Input via stdIn pipe ?

Cu Selur

[*.mp4 guy]

I'm sure the people over at Divx know that as of right now they are not competetive with X264, or mainconcept, or Ateme (new one, not the one from nero). However looking at what they are trying to do, and understanding that their main competition is Nero, as long as they work on functionality improvements to bring divx7 closer to divx6 in that aspect, I won't have any complaints that aren't a result of it being targeted at a vastly different demographic then the one I occupy.