New DivX 7 H.264 codec

[Enigmax]

New DivX 7 on January 2009.
http://www.divx.com/divx7/?lang=en

Supporting H.264 and AAC audio.

[microchip8]

no thanks, I'm sticking to x264 :p

[Doom9]

And since it's AVC it will need to be discussed in the AVC forum ;)

[Enigmax]

DivX 7 continues whit the full compatibility ASP.

But...
I prefer XviD (and X.264, of course) :D

[ChronoCross]

I'm interested to see what divx has got in store.

[tommy_vercetti]

Is it going to be 64 bit compatible, XVID has already gone 64 bit

[Kurtnoise]

It's out...:)

[mgh]

http://www.divx.com/en/products/software/windows/divx
free version also available.
downloading right now.

[leeperry]

nice! too bad they didn't tell betatesters :rolleyes:

EDIT : it does seem to offer lower latency than CoreAVC :eek:

[bond]

merged "divx7 is here" threads and moved to the forum it belongs

[ricardo.santos]

Well im really not really into the HD thing, DVD is more than enough for me.

Im more interested in streaming videos using h264, i converted a trailer (640x268) with divx converter using the divx plus profile, there were no video or audio option to tweak just a size limit option.

At the end i got a mkv file, demuxed it and muxed it back into mp4 with Yamb.

Hosted the mp4 but it doesnt stream, i checked the profile and it uses the 4.0(high), so in theory it should stream it.

I tried to replicate the settings used by the divx converter with other free programs that use x264 (automkv, xvid4psp, avanti) and the divx video looks about the same to me and they stream properly.

I'll have to wait untill 3rd party programs support divx7 so that i can tweak the settings and compare it to x264

[audyovydeo]

huh ?

PLAY
Plays DivX video (.divx, .avi)
Plays HD H.264 video (.mkv)
Supports AAC and MP3 audio
Includes DFX Audio Enhancer
CREATE
One-step conversion to DivX video
Outputs .divx ,.avi, .mkv files
Includes DivX Plus™ HD encode profile
Includes advanced encode settings

http://www.divx.com/en/products/software/windows/compare-divx

I take this to mean they don't support mp4 file format.
They're history from day zero, as far as i'm concerned. You can't make an H.264 codec without supporting its native container, full stop.

cheers
a/v

[leeperry]

ok I've done some benchmarks on my o/c Q6600.....all I can say is that ffdshow-mt works amazingly well on 720p files :eek:

too bad ffdshow-mt is not compiled in ICL10 as it helps a lot with post-processing...also divx seems to offer a very low latency when using avisynth scripts :)

Death.and.Life.of.Bobby.Z.mkv (720p 2.35 short sample)

divx :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 561.4, dfps: 347.9
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 1s, fps: 477.6, dfps: 351.6
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 1s, fps: 492.3, dfps: 367.9

coreavc 1.85 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 542.4, dfps: 351.6
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 653.1, dfps: 351.6
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 581.8, dfps: 343.9

coreavc cuda :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 3s, fps: 711.1, dfps: 136.2
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 3s, fps: 666.7, dfps: 135.6
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 3s, fps: 711.1, dfps: 136.2

ffdshow mt 2576 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 888.9, dfps: 336.9
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 761.9, dfps: 336.9
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 820.5, dfps: 333.3

FF.mkv (1080p 1.78 short sample)

divx :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 206.2, dfps: 121.0
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 214.2, dfps: 121.0
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 222.7, dfps: 121.0

coreavc 1.85 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 206.2, dfps: 129.5
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 253.1, dfps: 132.6
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 265.1, dfps: 132.4

coreavc cuda :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 206.2, dfps: 118.5
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 253.1, dfps: 121.2
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 206.2, dfps: 121.2

ffdshow mt 2576 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 146.5, dfps: 99.4
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 135.8, dfps: 101.3
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 0s, fps: 146.5, dfps: 103.1

Chaos.mkv (720p 2.35 short sample)

divx :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 557.7, dfps: 300.2
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 574.1, dfps: 305.0
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 723.0, dfps: 300.2

coreavc 1.85 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 673.1, dfps: 282.9
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 673.1, dfps: 287.2
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 780.8, dfps: 278.8

coreavc cuda :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 2s, fps: 574.1, dfps: 128.4
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 2s, fps: 723.0, dfps: 128.4
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 2s, fps: 591.5, dfps: 128.4

ffdshow mt 2576 :
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 697.1, dfps: 300.2
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 697.1, dfps: 300.5
User: 0s, kernel: 0s, total: 0s, real: 1s, fps: 610.0, dfps: 305.0

[ArcticFox]

MKV needs a splitter, MP4 lots of other things can do it hence the specific MKV support, it will probably decode in MP4 as well as its just not specifically stated.

[tetsuox]

Im more interested in streaming videos using h264, i converted a trailer (640x268) with divx converter using the divx plus profile, there were no video or audio option to tweak just a size limit option.

Is DivX Plus™ HD encode profile = h264 encoder? Or is it just a tweaked MPEG4-ASP profile with more options suited to HD video? *confused*

@audyovydeo
DivX could have just packaged Haali's Splitter (a la CoreAVC) to support the .mp4 container.

[ricardo.santos]

Is DivX Plus™ HD encode profile = h264 encoder? Or is it just a tweaked MPEG4-ASP profile with more options suited to HD video? *confused*


yes it uses the h264 encoder, i had to demux the mkv and mux into mp4 using yamb

heres what mediainfo says:
General
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 7.54 MiB
Duration : 2mn 6s
Overall bit rate : 501 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-05 11:53:15
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-05 11:53:15
Writing application : Yamb 2.1.0.0 [http://yamb.unite-video.com]


heres the divx "mp4" that doesnt stream and the clip i used converted with x264 that streams, "side by side".

http://ricardouk.blogspot.com/2009/01/divx-7-vs-x264-streaming-teste-test.html

[tetsuox]

@ricardo
Try http://labs.divx.com/WebPlayerCodeGeneratorBeta to use DivX webplayer instead. I assume the DivX Webplayer supports .mkv as that is their output container.

[ricardo.santos]

@ricardo
Try http://labs.divx.com/WebPlayerCodeGeneratorBeta to use DivX webplayer instead. I assume the DivX Webplayer supports .mkv as that is their output container.


I guess it would but the already widely spread Flash player supports mp4/avc.

For example if i open a website and start posting videos i wont ask people to install divx to watch videos, youtube, dailymotion, vimeo, veoh etc etc etc etc everyone uses the flash player (small instalation file) to stream flv or mp4/avc.

About the divx mp4 file not streaming, it does but only after it downloads the whole video, something to do with the "atom" not being at the beggining of the mp4, i thought yamb would take care of it.

[tetsuox]

I guess it would but the already widely spread Flash player supports mp4/avc.

Yeah I know, but I'm just curious ;)

[Dark Eiri]

huh ?
I take this to mean they don't support mp4 file format.
They're history from day zero, as far as i'm concerned. You can't make an H.264 codec without supporting its native container, full stop.

cheers
a/v

I'm quite happy with this. Since hardware devices supporting H264 have mandatory support to .MP4, maybe now we'll start to see some MKV players out there. And it would be really great if Sony and Microsoft updated their licenses to bring it to the consoles too.

You can always remux the MKV to MP4.

[ricardo.santos]

well the divx mp4 file is streaming properly now... i had to manually execute the command "mp4box -inter 500 test.mp4" with mp4box.

So to stream avc/mp4 with divx i had to:

1- convert with the divx converter
2- demux the mkv with MKV Extract
3- remux the h264 video and aac audio files with yamb to mp4
4- aplly the command "mp4box -inter 500 test.mp4" with mp4box


with the free solutions out here most all of them all they need is for the user to select the video and conversion profile, only avanti doesnt move the "moov" atom to the begining of the mp4 file but that easily overcomed by doing step 4 above

For my streaming needs i have to say that x264 and free programs outhere can do the same and without so many "steps"

heres the link for the videos again, now both working:

http://ricardouk.blogspot.com/2009/01/divx-7-vs-x264-streaming-teste-test.html

[lexor]

huh ?

I take this to mean they don't support mp4 file format.
They're history from day zero, as far as i'm concerned. You can't make an H.264 codec without supporting its native container, full stop.

cheers
a/v
anything that might push mkv support into standalones (and by extension ac3 and dts support without the need for ~10% waste of space for m2ts) is a very, very good thing.

[iwod]

No one talks about the quality? I thought the beat was only about the Decoder. They suddenly come out a encoder without beta testing?

[Dark Shikari]

No one talks about the quality? I thought the beat was only about the Decoder. They suddenly come out a encoder without beta testing?Encoder has been out in alpha for a while... it's just a rewrapping of the Mainconcept encoder.

[tommy_vercetti]

Does this play .mp4 files, cos Im unable to play them

[deekey777]

Does this play .mp4 files, cos Im unable to play them

Same here: I can't play big_buck_bunny_1080p_h264.mp4, but on the other side I can play TS-files.

[bond]

which encoding options are offered to the user in divx7 h.264?

and which encoding options does it use by default?

[Dark Eiri]

Well, I'm testing the DivX Converter 7 right now and all I can say is: it's fast (took me about 10 minutes to encode a 4min 720p60 video, on a stock Q6600). You should be aware that you need to select DIVX PLUS HD for H264. For the first time encoding with it, I selected 720p HD (well, it was the format I wanted after all) and ended with a DivX v6.8.5 ASP encode.

What kills it is not being able to configure absolutely anything: resolution (keeps the source), H264 specs, bitrate (which is locked to 5 Mbps for 720p and 8.5 Mbps for 1080p)... you can't even change the output filename. The only thing you can actually change is the option to keep the original audio track if it is an AC3. It's almost retarded how absurdly limited it is. And I didn't see any way to use the encoder outside of it, so it seems it's tied to it's own crappy GUI. I give it no stars at all. It's pretty much useless for "power H264 users". I know most end-users don't give a damn about settings and will love the simplicity and how easy it is to compress their videos with nice visual quality.

Even if you can't tune it the visual quality is very nice. The deinterlacer is nice too. Most users won't need more than this. It's L4.0 (with 2 ref-frames, I believe) so DXVA and Xbox360/PS3 won't have a hard time decoding it (well, for the time being, you'll have to remux it to MP4 for the consoles). Didn't compare the quality against x264 because I couldn't tune the settings and I don't think is fair comparing it with a crippled x264 (no Psy-RD and AQ) to match the DivX 7 defaults. If it's really only a Mainconcept H264 twist, then we all know the results already.

EDIT: Just tested 1080p. Video quality was really good too. Kinda slow to encode, though.

The converter also couldn't use ffdshow for AC3 decoding, forcing me to install AC3Filter to convert a MPEG-2 TS.
Oh, and it downmixed the audio to AAC Stereo @ 160kbps, sounding nice, but no surround... Again, 99% of the users will be absolutely fine with stereo. (Confirmed it. And if I set AC3Filter to output 5.1, the encoded AAC gets all crazy.)

The decoder on the other hand is pretty fast! It's amazing how it plays 720p 60fps on my old Turion MK-36 (single core) notebook with very little frame loss. CoreAVC and ffdshow-mt got competition! If the free decoder is the same that is on the Pro trial, I would say it is the best H264 decoder available for free today.

Conclusion: While being a major evolution from DivX 6, it's not competition for x264 if you're an advanced user. It's like perfection for average users who just want to compress their footage and don't care about advanced settings, though. Congrats, DivX!

Warning: The 1080p encode buffers for more than a minute on the Xbox360 before starts playing. Scary.

EDIT: I'll edit this post with more tests later.

[audyovydeo]

maybe now we'll start to see some MKV players out there.

You can always remux the MKV to MP4.



they're two different things. I personally would love hardware players handle H.264-in-MP4 just as much as you'd like to see H.264-in-MKV.

But a software player supporting MKV and not MP4 is like a bicycle with 24 speeds without the brakes (I could've come up with a better analogy, but what the heck).

cheers
a/v

[Underground78]

For those who want to play with a sample : http://www.mediafire.com/?xyzmlxq2onz (original : http://rapidshare.com/files/82525583/killa.sampla.x264.mkv.html)

[Dark Eiri]

they're two different things. I personally would love hardware players handle H.264-in-MP4 just as much as you'd like to see H.264-in-MKV.

But a software player supporting MKV and not MP4 is like a bicycle with 24 speeds without the brakes (I could've come up with a better analogy, but what the heck).

cheers
a/v

Oh, you're talking about software players! I didn't install the player, but I'm almost sure it supports MP4. Just a minute, I'll try it.

Most "hardware" HD players can already play H.264-in-MP4, though (Playstation 3, Xbox 360 and some HDD/Ethernet based players). I can only name Popcorn Hour supporting MKV.

[tommy_vercetti]

A software player supporting MKV and not MP4 is like a bicycle with 24 speeds without the brakes (I could've come up with a better analogy, but what the heck).

cheers
a/v


And when XVID glady goes ahead and gets a 64 bit compatible version, DIVX gladly treads the 32 bit path.... :angry:

[audyovydeo]

"hardware" HD players / software / MP4 / MKV et al

<rant>
In the grander scheme of things, 10 / 20 years down the line, we'll all be using VC1-in-WMV only because H.264-in-whatever is becoming a helluva fragmented field, with files encoded to the H.264 standard by encoder X unable to play back on (software or hardware) player Y.

Already-seen scenario, now playing out in the video world.
Guess us "enthusiasts" will still be chatting around here about x264 r0.98.8437 and DivX12.4
</rant>

[Dark Eiri]

And when XVID glady goes ahead and gets a 64 bit compatible version, DIVX gladly treads the 32 bit path.... :angry:

XviD 64bit is that of an improvement over the 32bit?
There are 64bit builds for x264 too and they're not much faster than the 32bit ones.

[Dark Shikari]

XviD 64bit is that of an improvement over the 32bit?
There are 64bit builds for x264 too and they're not much faster than the 32bit ones.I doubt they're much faster as Xvid doesn't have any 64-bit-specific asm as far as I know.

x264's are 15% faster though, and that's pretty decent.

[bond]

seems to use advanced profile, level 4, with cabac, loop, weighted prediction (not in b-frames), 8x8, no custom matrix, 3 ref frames, hrd

[IgorC]

Nice to see Divx on H.264 and AAC. Advanced users already have advanced H.264/AAC codecs like x264, Nero and Apple AAC. But fast H.264 decoder and one more big company wich supports H.264/AAC is really usefull for even faster adoption of H.264.

The final version of H.264 decoder seems to be identical to Beta3 in perfomance field.

[tommy_vercetti]

Strange DigitalAK not around to answer our queries ?

[mgh]

media info shows High@L4.0 (CABAC/15 Ref Frames) with all encodes i tried (clips from vcds, dvds and 640 width avis). Quality of all was really nice, the dvd encodes were a little over 800 kbps video. could retain the ac3 audio
the player plays mkvs only, mp4s need to be remuxed to mkv (one step with megui mkv muxer)

[Kurtnoise]

well the divx mp4 file is streaming properly now... i had to manually execute the command "mp4box -inter 500 test.mp4" with mp4box.

you can do that w/ Yamb too...Just check the box in the settings. ;)

[CruNcher]

yep i wonder how the industry is gonna accept it a lot of parts of the content (downloadable high quality) is in WMV these days and .mov isn't adapted so fast and in reality i would like it more to see DivX and the Mainconcept Encoder become successful here then Apples Crap :D, though of course many will still prefer WMV because of the users they can reach with it but many go already multi encoding for their content so DivX H.264 could become a option (and who says you have to use Mainconcepts Encoder ;) ), though it also depends on the Licensing as WMV is easy in those regards you use it and don't care about anything :) sure you support Microsoft with that and their Monopol but most content provider don't care about that. It could push .MKV indeed and DivX Goal is clear they try the same strategy back with ASP though times changed and not sure if it will work the way they think these days :). I hope we gonna see new Devices from the Industry leaders gonna support .MKV it worked back then with .AVI though most go the .mp4 route these days so establishing .MKV as the Standard will be hard though by a great part it is in the Hands of the Consumer himself how successful it will be and that is what DivX Inc builds it's strategy on :) so buy buy buy and create content content content then the big ones have no chance to go and support .MKV tough they always need some kind of commercial coporation and of course they gonna license "DivX" as the name once again (which is funny because they created the underlying technology, the most important parts of it) :)
It's funny to see how DivX always makes it happen as the Child that Mother comes and want's something from them :D Child demands Mother reacts and they try it again but as i said it will be hard the market is different though the Power of the Consumer is always the same of course, and what once worked might work again if it doesn't hmmm i guess that would be the end of DivX as we knew it :)

[djloewen]

So, that CLI alpha encoder we were testing... it's gone? We have no way of using the DivX encoder outside of the Converter application?

[Amdh]

As said by others, no advanced settings to play with .. just a stupid useless encoder that fits only for novices, we expected more from divx, i'm personnally disappointed and i'll stick to my lovely x264

[LoRd_MuldeR]

As said by others, no advanced settings to play with .. just a stupid useless encoder that fits only for novices, we expected more from divx, i'm personnally disappointed and i'll stick to my lovely x264

I can't get that "DivX Converter" to produce any H.264 files :scared:

It always gives my an .divx file with "DX50" FourCC code. Here is the MediaInfo analysis:

General
Complete name : C:\TEMP\Crowd Run 1680p.divx
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 3.05 MiB
Duration : 10s 0ms
Overall bit rate : 2 558 Kbps

Video
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Muxing mode : Packed bitstream
Codec ID : DX50
Codec ID/Hint : DivX 5
Duration : 10s 0ms
Bit rate : 2 550 Kbps
Width : 976 pixels
Height : 544 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.160
Stream size : 3.04 MiB (100%)
Title : Video
Writing library : DivX 6.8.2 (UTC 2008-05-17)

And yes, I did select the "DIVX PLUS HD" profile. Can't find any more options. Not even option to select bitrate/quantizer? :confused:

[audyovydeo]

Writing library : DivX 6.8.2 (UTC 2008-05-17)[/CODE]

:

are you sure in isn't a conflict with the previously installed version ? Looks like something didn't get unistalled. I cant say for sure, cause I'm NOT going to install that (shudder!) thing on my computer.

cheers
a/v

[ricardo.santos]

the market is different though the Power of the Consumer is always the same of course, and what once worked might work again

Altough im no expert on the quality side of things im going to give my opinion on this matter from a consumer point of view.

I have no bluray player or any bluray movie but the situation at the moment seems different to me, divx "launched" divx hardware players because dvd players at the time werent able to play divx only dvd, but now from what i read bluray players play blu ray discs and h264/mp4 videos.

Someone said mkv supports ac3 but doesnt aac give better quality?

i use their ASP encoder and im quite happy with it, but why the DIVX PLUS? To get money on licensing divx plus players? it seems bad to me from a consumer point of view taking in consideration that current bluray players/PS3 play MP4/H264.

Having the converter "locked" to produce just MKV seems unfair, perhaps tools like AutoGk/avi.net/Automkv/StaxRip can be upgraded to produce a different format...

Are my reasons wrong? Am i missing something?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

are you sure in isn't a conflict with the previously installed version ? Looks like something didn't get unistalled. I cant say for sure, cause I'm NOT going to install that (shudder!) thing on my computer.

I converted another video (this time a 1080p trailer from Apple site and again "DIVX PLUS HD" profile) and this time I got a H.264 stream in MKV. Strange :confused:

Seems the DivX Converter decides the output format also by some properties of the input file...

[Dark Eiri]

@LoRd_MuldeR: I'm getting that a lot too. Just ensure you select DIVX PLUS HD before adding the files and you should be okay for most encodes.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Just ensure you select DIVX PLUS HD before adding the files and you should be okay for most encodes.

Thanks for the info. But for the moment I see no reason to care about the DivX Converter. I've seen enough :rolleyes:

Waiting for the final release of their CLI encoder ...

[Sagekilla]

Glad to see they're using mkv and not hacking away with avi :) About time we start using some newer formats that aren't a kludge to use.