FAQ: How to correct luminance levels

[leeperry]

I'm not sure if you can reliably detect this in every frame of every movie. What if this algorithm sometimes gives us wrong results? Then black / white level will fluctuate in the middle of the movie. I don't like the idea of doing this automatically, unless we find a solution which is 100% fail safe.


BTB/WTW is not "non-standard". A DVD may officially contain BTB and WTW information. Of course the DVD makers must live with the fact that a properly calibrated TV will supress most of the BTB/WTW information. But this doesn't make the use of BTB/WTW illegal or non-standard.
some encoders create "padding" data in the BTB/WTW
also, Seb.26 has added a dynamic levels option in ffdshow filters(select "Seb's BTB&WTW"), it will dynamically show you these levels...if they ever existed in the first place.
you can of course set the detection threshold, the time hold etc etc ;)
some guys on HCFR are hooked to it!

[tetsuo55]

well most big LCD screen/LCD projectors have wide gamuts, and hardly any display has a perfect sRGB gamut....and you need to measure the primaries coordinates with a colorimeter in order to fix them.

also european/russian/continental chinese BD's are either 23.976/24fps but they use the EBU gamut :p

I don't think you can let ffdshow make wild guesses on the gamut.

those wide gamuts are not used, the computer can only output 8bit sRGB(you could use the wide gamut at the cost of banding though)

I might be wrong, but according to the mastering article i read about bluray, no matter what the source was it gets converted to REC709 before encoding to disk.

But the editing does indeed often happen with EBU or SMPTE-C. Not all movies seem to fall into this category it seems, i have seen a few lists here and there but they seem fairly short.

This process does not need to happen in FFdshow(which should have a lot more user options on top of the auto-detec tion)

[leeperry]

those wide gamuts are not used, the computer can only output 8bit sRGB(you could use the wide gamut at the cost of banding though)
if you output vanilla sRGB on a wide gamut display, the picture will be oversaturated to death...reason why some ppl do gamut conversion so the input/output tints match :o

[tetsuo55]

I'm not sure if you can reliably detect this in every frame of every movie. What if this algorithm sometimes gives us wrong results? Then black / white level will fluctuate in the middle of the movie. I don't like the idea of doing this automatically, unless we find a solution which is 100% fail safe.

We will have to find a 100% safe method.
Keep in mind though, that at default settings almost everyone is seeing an incorrect image at this point.
Only the people who tweak stuff get an accurate image.



BTB/WTW is not "non-standard". A DVD may officially contain BTB and WTW information. Of course the DVD makers must live with the fact that a properly calibrated TV will supress most of the BTB/WTW information. But this doesn't make the use of BTB/WTW illegal or non-standard.

I doublechecked the mpeg2 specs.
According to the calculation on page44 anything below 16 will get clipped. If a device is capable of showing lower values it can decide to ignore this calculation.

[madshi]

I doublechecked the mpeg2 specs.
According to the calculation on page44 anything below 16 will get clipped. If a device is capable of showing lower values it can decide to ignore this calculation.
Then how come every good DVD player outputs full BTB/WTW information?

[tetsuo55]

if you output vanilla sRGB on a wide gamut display, the picture will be oversaturated to death...reason why some ppl do gamut conversion so the input/output tints match :o

I have yet to see a commercialy available wide gamut capable display that is not factory calibrated to 709/sRGB (cheap misscalibrations with blue push does not count)

Then how come every good DVD player outputs full BTB/WTW information?

Because they are smart, as it saves money and they can actually use it for promotion purposes :)

[leeperry]

I have yet to see a commercialy available wide gamut capable display that is not factory calibrated to 709/sRGB (cheap misscalibrations with blue push does not count)
did you look at the CIE charts of projectors/LCD screens ?
you can't get a factory calibrated display with a perfect sRGB/HDTV(they're identical) gamut.
even professional broadcast equipment used in mastering houses is weekly recalibrated by color engineers with Minolta CS sensors(that are also recalibrated every 6 months).

this is the native wide gamut of a JVD HD750 :

http://pix.nofrag.com/8/1/d/c822a1ebaa2235f9f29a59fffe015t.jpg (http://pix.nofrag.com/8/1/d/c822a1ebaa2235f9f29a59fffe015.html)

offering generic gamut conversion in ffdshow is not possible :o

still I guess most smart displays will use the following YCbPr>RGB decoding depending on the resolution...or will let you select it at least :
Rec. ITU-R BT.601-5 => PAL / SECAM / NTSC
Rec. ITU-R BT.709-4 => HD

Because they are smart, as it saves money and they can actually use it for promotion purposes :)
video equipment works in TV range, xvYCC will finally introduce the 0-255 range for video content(increasing the gamut as well)
standalone DVD players output 16-235 video data in 0-255..if I remember well it was chosen to go 16-235 to avoid crosstalking for airwaves broadcasting.

[tetsuo55]

the problem with this wide gamut is bitdepth.

Storing all those values in 8bit will cause a lot of banding, secondly, if that display does not do a near-lossless 8bit source to 10bit wide gamut conversion all colors will be displayed incorrectly.

These wide gamuts are intended to be used with 10bit or higher signals, even 10bit has enough space to store a very wide gamut without banding.
The industry is well aware that we have 8bit-random-colorspace/gamut images and video. For this reason as much as possible is stored in REC709/sRGB. These colorspaces can be losslessly converted to the display's gamut in 8bit using ICC profiles.(Every display device should have the option to display limited range/sRGB(not necessarily accurately calibrated))

You could display the image completely in the wide gamut, however this could result in banding.

When i say generic conversion i mean converting the ANY to 1, the standard in use by the entire computer industry and HD video is sRGB. From this standard either a 3D-lut or preferably a ICC v4 profile can make the last minute adjustments for the end user display(losslessly).
For those people that do not care/know about this, they will at least have an as close to sRGB image as possible, instead of random and guaranteed wrong colors/luminance.
In the end the computer/display will always be trying to display sRGB, no matter how badly it does so.

----
PS, about the JVD HD750 chart
The first thing any professional calibrator will do in an end user situation is try to get those primaries as close as possible to sRGB.

----

I hope that when windows7 is released i will be able to buy a HDMI 1.3+ videocard and use 10bit xvYCC(my current card already does 10bit but not xvYCC, and even if it did windowsxp/vista does not allow more than 8bits per channel over hdmi)

[leeperry]

These wide gamuts are intended to be used with 10bit or higher signals, even 10bit has enough space to store a very wide gamut without banding.
well they are used to display 8 bits video atm.

The industry is well aware that we have 8bit-random-colorspace/gamut images and video. For this reason as much as possible is stored in REC709/sRGB.
US/ASIAN movies are stored in REC.709, but their mastering gamut is SMPTE-C, european movies use the EBU gamut(whatever SD or HD)...you won't be able to find a commercial movie using the sRGB gamut(only videos shot on consumer HDV I guess).

These colorspaces can be losslessly converted to the display's gamut in 8bit using ICC profiles.(Every display device should have the option to display limited range/sRGB(not necessarily accurately calibrated))
too bad this will only work in color managed applications(like softproofing in Photoshop)....you won't find a color managed video renderer :o

You could display the image completely in the wide gamut, however this could result in banding.
most displays work internally in 10/12 bits, so they won't create more banding than there was in the 8 bits source.....just all the colors will be oversaturated.

When i say generic conversion i mean converting the ANY to 1, the standard in use by the entire computer industry and HD video is sRGB. From this standard either a 3D-lut or preferably a ICC v4 profile can make the last minute adjustments for the end user display(losslessly).
For those people that do not care/know about this, they will at least have an as close to sRGB image as possible, instead of random and guaranteed wrong colors/luminance.
In the end the computer/display will always be trying to display sRGB, no matter how badly it does so.
well you've got no idea what their display CIE chart looks like, providing them with SMPTE-C/EBU>sRGB conversion won't help at all, as their native gamut is prolly a far cry from the HDTV/sRGB gamut in the first place...and a PC works in 8 bits so each conversion is VERY much lossy.

http://pix.nofrag.com/a/3/0/8cce76ab49edba0902a0ada458379.gif

before deciding anything, please refer to yesgrey3 as he's very much aware of all I'm saying(he did the gamut conversion mathlab stuff for the PS gamut conversion script)...besides I don't think the ffdshow coders care too much about gamuts ;)

about the JVD HD750 chart
The first thing any professional calibrator will do in an end user situation is try to get those primaries as close as possible to sRGB.
but DVD/BD are mastered in SMPTE-C or EBU gamuts, what would you care for sRGB exactly ?
besides it's your lucky day, the HD750 does have built-in gamut mapping options....but the RS1/HD1 does not.

here's a HD1 before/after SMPTE-C conversion using yesgrey3/JohnAd PS script in MPC :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11937064&postcount=90

as you can read, the movie colors are not grossly oversaturated anymore and the guy is very happy w/ the gamut corrected picture :)

I hope that when windows7 is released i will be able to buy a HDMI 1.3+ videocard and use 10bit xvYCC(my current card already does 10bit but not xvYCC, and even if it did windowsxp/vista does not allow more than 8bits per channel over hdmi)
well there's no xvYCC movies, and there won't be before a long while....it will only be useful for gamut conversion as 8 bits input/output is very lossy..

we should stop threadcrapping clsid's sticky topic anyhow :D

[chros]

Is there any registry entry for Nvidia cards for the "full range"?
Because my setup doesn't want to save this setting ...

I have find that there are values which are saved under:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:0

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:1

I've got only 2 values:
AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedGammaState
AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedRGBLockStatus

Can someone see which value correspond to this?

Thanks

Setup: fresh WinXP SP3, latest whql driver, 9600GT

I have installed the new 181.20 whql drivers, but the problem still reamins.
Can someone look it for me, please? It drives me crazy ...

Thanks

[spida_singh]

Is it saved between sessions?

Can you look at my post here?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1234270#post1234270

Everything is saved correctly, the trouble I am having is that when my receiver is turned on(Onkyo 875), I have to manually enable the display from my nvidia control panel. I believe this is a handshaking issue, sometimes I don't have to, sometimes I do, I have not found a way to solve this. Same occurs when switching between sources, the signal is just lost and needs to be refreshed via the control panel. I just need to find out how to force the signal correctly to the receiver everytime it is turned on, or switched back to the HTPC source.

[chros]

Can you look at the mentioned keys in the registry?
Maybe you can find the missing values ...

Thanks

[Mangix]

I have installed the new 181.20 whql drivers, but the problem still reamins.
Can someone look it for me, please? It drives me crazy ...

Thanks

on my system, both are set to one

[chros]

on my system, both are set to one
Which both? :)

I'm looking for the key/value of the "full range" setting, because my system doesn't have one ...

Thanks

[spida_singh]

Which both? :)

I'm looking for the key/value of the "full range" setting, because my system doesn't have one ...

Thanks

New nvidia drivers out today, 181.22, test with these first, ill havea look at the keys in the meantime to check if I can spot anything.:)


:::EDIT:::

Right just tried the new nvidia drivers (181.22 on MSI 9400GT), installed over previous version, set 24hz, RGB output, 0-255 full in NV control panel. Set MPC-HC to EVR-CP, D3D buffers set to 20, aero disabled (I am also using only the internal filters/splitter in MPC-HC, and have disabled ffdshow video from being used in MPC-HC). Blacks are blacks, no colour wash, and.... all settings were remembered and enabled when switching between sources on my Onkyo 875, I even turned off all power to my receiver and LCD, but left HTPC on. Hi Def content only tested so far, will test a dvd shortly. Restarted equipment, all settings are the same as I set them. The only thing i need to test is if i restart my HTPC, are settings remembered and applied correctly when home audio equipment is turned on again

:::EDIT:::
Just tested, looks all ok, everything remembered and applied automatically, no handshaking issues when restarted.

I turn off power to all my home theatre equipment every night...saving some power.

[chros]

Nice, but what are the key/value pairs of the full range settings???? Can you look at for me, and paste here?
(I have deinstalled the old whql drivers, and installed the new one: 181.22, but this setting is never saved ... :( )

1. run regedit
2. got to:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:1
3. highlight this key (key in step 2)
4. got to File menu, Export command, save somewhere...
5 Then open the saved file, and copy-paste here in the forum ...

Thanks ...

Eg. it's mine:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:0]
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedGammaState"=dword:00000001
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedRGBLockStatus"=dword:00000001

[spida_singh]

Here's Mine

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings]
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedTabPage"=dword:00000002

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:0]
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedGammaState"=dword:00000001
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedRGBLockStatus"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\NVControlPanel\RegisteredServers\Video_TVServer\AdjustVideoColorSettings\Gpu:0_Head:1]
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedGammaState"=dword:00000001
"AdjustVideoColorSettingsLastSelectedRGBLockStatus"=dword:00000001

[chros]

Hhmmm... So where the hell does it store this value (Full Range) in the registry???

[ACrowley]

just want to inform you that the UseBT601 Switch for the Ati Registry Settings wont work anymore with Catalyst 9.2!

[cca]

The setting works just fine, but EVR Custom in MPC-HC has a bug since a year ago at least. Try another renderer and you'll see, it's fine.

[ACrowley]

No, The Settings is disabled with Cat 9.2 ! It has nothing to do with MPC Player.. Its the same with any Player + EVR/EVR Custom

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=109217
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/337337.aspx

The Levels with other Renderers like Haali, VMR9 or Overlay has nothing to do with the Registry Tweak...it works(or not) with or without the Tweak.

[cca]

That's strange, because in every renderer I have normal black levels, except EVR Custom. Something is fishy, in the links you have there they mention something about obeying Microsoft for software controlled levels, if this is what it is, this will NOT get fixed, as it's supposed to be a feature and not a bug.

BUT. Given that normal EVR gives me correct levels, there must be a way to signal what levels we need, but noone seems to know how or what.

[ACrowley]

I have wrong levels on all my SD Mpeg2 (DVD /DVB), it looks "ok with HD"

It was correct with Cat 9.1 EVR and EVR Custom with UseBT601CSC =1
But the UseBT601CSC Registry Tweak is 100% sure not supported anymore by Catalyst 9.2!
In all Players, with EVR Custom and EVR standard. Thats a Fact! If you call it a bug or a Feature...nevermind. It wont work anymore and thats really bad imho

So ive to use other Methods to correct the Levels to 0-255. FFDSHOW HQ RGB32 Conversion, MPC-HC Shaders oder Haali Renderer.
But the USEBT601CSC Tweak was working perfect up to Cat 9.1 ...to bad!

[cca]

Hmm, how do you connect your monitor? Analog RGB (Standard VGA) or DVI/HDMI?

[ACrowley]

Hmm, how do you connect your monitor? Analog RGB (Standard VGA) or DVI/HDMI?

HDMI

But its not a a Problem caused by my System:)

Simply because the Registry tweak wont work anymore and its exactly the same Problem with CAT 9.2 as the other User are having in these Forum Links.

[cca]

Well, I only use VGA (analog) and all renderers except MPC's EVR Custom have proper levels. OS is Vista 64bit.

[Kado]

This is the "history" regarding the levels issue the way I recall it. before vista sp1 evr cp had wrong levels (washed out picture) and evr had correct levels, casimir fixed it making standard evr have wrong levels and evr cp have correct levels, then vista sp1 came and the tables turned so evr had correct levels and evr cp had wrong levels again (the wrong levels are also present in sp2 beta v.275). shaders were added to mpc to help fix the issue. nvidia released drivers that can let you select the luma range fixing the levels issue without resorting to the shaders in mpc. a hidden option was also available for ati but does not seem to work in catalyst 9.x (can't confirm because i have nvidia only)
the end:D

P.S.=> I use 9800gtx dvi-d.

[chros]

@Kado: can you dig out the corresponding registry entry for me? (for the dinamic range setting?)

See here: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\
or here: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\

I have tried everything: uninstalled old driver, apply Regcleener in safe mode, install new whql driver in normal mode, but nothing.... I even open a topic on forums.nvidia.com .... http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89642

Thanks

[ACrowley]

Well, I only use VGA (analog) and all renderers except MPC's EVR Custom have proper levels. OS is Vista 64bit.


I dont know how it its with VGA

However..the question is not if we have correct Levels or not(ofcourse you can change it with other Renderers,Decoders etc)..the Problem that the UseBT6012CSC tweak wont work anymore with Cat 9.2
And this tweak was the Solution for a lot of Users in their configurations.

[cca]

I don't think we have many choices then, the options are the ones listed in the first post of this thread. Another one is to downgrade the drivers, but in the long term it may mean that you'll be using obsolete drivers, I do not think ATi is going to restore the previous functionality, unless they put an option in the control panel like Nvidia.

[Kado]

@chros
I was unable to find the registry setting you were looking for. Try with 182.06 WHQL drivers (XP 32bit (http://downloads.guru3d.com/GeForce-Forceware-182.06-WHQL-XP-32-bit-download-2190.html) / XP 64bit (http://downloads.guru3d.com/GeForce-Forceware-182.06-WHQL-XP-64-bit-download-2189.html)).

[chros]

@chros
I was unable to find the registry setting you were looking for. Try with 182.06 WHQL drivers (XP 32bit (http://downloads.guru3d.com/GeForce-Forceware-182.06-WHQL-XP-32-bit-download-2190.html) / XP 64bit (http://downloads.guru3d.com/GeForce-Forceware-182.06-WHQL-XP-64-bit-download-2189.html)).

Thanks, but see my signature ... :)

So, I don't know where the hell this settings are stored ... :(

[ACrowley]

I don't think we have many choices then, the options are the ones listed in the first post of this thread. Another one is to downgrade the drivers, but in the long term it may mean that you'll be using obsolete drivers, I do not think ATi is going to restore the previous functionality, unless they put an option in the control panel like Nvidia.

I hope ATI will add a simple CCC Option.

Downgrading to Cat 9.1 is no Option cause i play some Games and Cat 9.2 gives a Perfomance Boost on some Games...

EDIT:

I forget , one constant Method to get PC Levels for all Codecs is "Windows Media Player" WMP11 outputs always correct Levels :)
This Method is not on the 1t Page.

Also this Tweak forces Vista/XP Media Center to use 0-255.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\DEBUG\ehPresenter.dll
"NominalRange" = DWORD:1

EDIT.

Yes, after some testing i can see that the MPC HC EVR cutoms Renderer has a bug ?! The Levels are wrong (without Shader). It looks like 16-235 Level (to bright)
Its correct with EVR standard. Also its correct again fr oHD with Shader 16-235 to 0-255 SD/HD. But its still a little bit bright with SD DVD 720x576
Strange, i never noticed this Problem before. Maybe its caused by cat 9.2 ?

[iron2000]

Can it be said that the auto selection of the YCbCr spec and input levels in ffdshow solves this luminance levels problem?
Or must the colorspace be forced to RGB32 in addition?

[cca]

Can it be said that the auto selection of the YCbCr spec and input levels in ffdshow solves this luminance levels problem?
Or must the colorspace be forced to RGB32 in addition?

Correct, you need to select only RGB as output in ffdshow for that to work.

[iron2000]

Correct, you need to select only RGB as output in ffdshow for that to work.

So it wouldn't work if Output options are left in the default state?
Like after a fresh install.

[cca]

So it wouldn't work if Output options are left in the default state?
Like after a fresh install.

If left in the default state, it will output something like YV12 or YUY2, leaving the RGB conversion to the video renderer and the graphics card drivers. So no, it won't work.

[iron2000]

Ok thanks!
I understand now.

[THX-UltraII]

Guys,

After some struggles with MPC-HC audio settings it was time to take a look at my video settings last night (involving output ranges). I ve tried all sort of different settings and really don t know anymore which is the correct setting to use. Some settings I tried where:

1.
MPC-HC with VMR9 and with pixel shader 16-235 -> 0-255 [SD][HD] enabled.

2.
MPC-HC with VMR9 and with pixel shader 16-235 -> 0-255 [SD][HD] disabled.

3.
MPC-HC with EVR Custom and with pixel shader 16-235 -> 0-255 [SD][HD] enabled.

4.
MPC-HC with EVR Custom and with pixel shader 16-235 -> 0-255 [SD][HD] disabled.

Really don t know which one to use. Some settings looks darker than others but don t know which one is 'dark enough'.

I did notice that EVR acts different than VMR9.

Here s my setup:
- HTPC with XP SP3
- ATI HD4350 with 9.2 driver
- latest MPC-HC build 1005
- latest DirectX
- JVC RS2 projector as display device
- HDMI out from ATI 4350 runs through Marantz AV8003 receiver which only works as passthrough the HDMI signal to my projector.

The content I play are .mkv's, .wmv's and video_ts material. When I play .mkv's coreAVC 1.9 comes in as decoder, with Input and Output levels on Autodetect.
When playing .wmv's the standard WMV video decoder is working as filter.


Also would like to know more about my projector: it has two modes for HDMI output range:
Standard (16-235) and
Enhanced (0-255)

The manual states that I have to put it on Enhanced for PC usage but on the Enhanced setting blacks looks washed out.

Any more info needed please let me know.

Really need some more help to set everything up correct.

Cheers.

[mark0077]

This is my mini guide to what to do displays supporting extended mode (full range mode, whatever its called on your display) (based on the problems I have had).

1) Set your projector / display to extended. Leave it at that and work on the pc end of things.

2) Getting your desktop in extended mode.

Get something black thats not video content, like a black image, black screensaver.

2a) If its washed out, then your washed out colors are not because of badly setup colorspace conversions. This happened me when I got my TV, black desktop background looked grey. My problem was with my newer NVidia card detected my screen as a HDTV and decided to send everything to it in 16-235. Theres options in the control panel, but only related to video content, not the entire desktop. Its a complete mess and nvidia need to work on this, but my solution was to force my nvidia drivers to detect my screen as a PC Monitor. This got my desktop back to 0-255 at least. With you using ATI I don't know if this is a problem at all.

2b) If its not washed out, move to step 3.

3) Get your video outputting in extended.

Once your happy your desktop is being output in 0-255, you can work on video conversion to 0-255. I really don't use any shaders or anything of that nature. I use ffdshow to do this colorspace conversion for me. I just select rgb32 as the only output mode in ffdshow, and enable high quality. In RGB Conversion section I set everything to Auto, and output device as PC Monitor. This seems to get me perfect colorspace conversion and levels all of the time.

[Kado]

@THX-UltraII
Do this:
Get Haruhi (http://rapidshare.com/files/113536801/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu_-_C4_-_Special_Ending_-__Hitsuji__e569a2b7_.mkv.html) video;
In MPC options go to "Tweaks" and enable "Free Window Resizing";
Open the video and make the window look like this (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc1.png) (so you can see the black borders that don't belong to the video);
Jump the video all the way to min 1:07 (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc2.png) and check if the black background and the black borders have the same color, if they have then you're all set otherwise you have to:
Try and use the correction shader;
Tweak the coreavc decoder input/output level settings (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/cavcd.png) (auto works fine here).

If both the background and the borders are washed out then it's the setting on the projector that's incorrect.
Try this and report back.:helpful:

[THX-UltraII]

First of all, thxz for your quick responses guys, really appreciated!

@Kado:
I ll try it tonight. Am I correct when I say that when It s on 1:07min and the background is blacker than the black bars, my settings are wrong giving me too dark picture and when the background is brighter than the black bars, something is also wrong resulting a a too bright picture?

@mark0077:
I ll set it on enhanced tonight but I already know this will give me washed out blacks. Hope I will find out some kind of settings (maybe in the ATI CCC?) than solves this.

[Kado]

@mark0077
If the video renderer (not the whole desktop it self) is still providing the wrong levels ffdshow won't solve the problem.
1:EVR wrong levels
2:EVR wrong levels but with correction shader.
3:EVR with right levels.
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc3.pnghttp://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc4.pnghttp://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc2.png

[Kado]

@THX-UltraII
The black won't be any blacker but you'll loose some detail in the darker parts of the video if you use too much correction.
My previous post to mark0077 has some examples.

[mark0077]

@THX-UltraII
The black won't be any blacker but you'll loose some detail in the darker parts of the video if you use too much correction.
My previous post to mark0077 has some examples.

Hi Kado. From what I know, the renderer will only give wrong levels if its fed something like yv12, yuy2 etc. I am takling about using ffdshow's rgb32 output. That way the renderer gets rgb32 so it never does anything with levels. I don't think its the renderer thats actually giving the wrong levels you describe, its the fact the renderer uses the graphics card so..... correct me if I am wrong, but to me, feeding the renderer rgb32 seems to eliminate the renderer / graphics card as a source for problems. It literally can't do anything with it (wrong or otherwise) as its rgb32 already.

THX, could you connect a normal CRT or something simliar to your machine. If it doesn't get washed out blacks on a simple black image, then either your projector is bad (doubtful), or the ATI drivers do something similar to my NVidia card, ie feed your projector limited range as it ASSUMES thats all it can do. The solution to this for me was editing the driver inf before installation to get the drivers to think I just have a normal computer LCD. Voila, full range levels on desktop and on display. Sort that out before you go about working on shaders, video levels. Get the desktop right first because everything goes through that. THEN work on video levels. Trying to get both right at the same time is only going to confuse things more ;) Have a look around for EDID OVERRIDE for ATI drivers if a normal CRT or LCD doesn't look washed out because assuming your projector isn't broken, I would assume the ATI drivers are sending the ENTIRE DESKTOP in limited range just like the NVIDIA drivers do.

[Kado]

@mark0077
You are correct about the RGB because there's nothing to be done to the video except being displayed. And the CPU usage is not that higher, about 10% higher for 720p video.
With nvidia you can select the luma range in the nvidia control panel but with ati there's no such option and that is what is resulting in all these problems, both macroblocks in dxva h264 decoding and luma levels are related to ATI users (if I remember correctly).

[THX-UltraII]

thxz Kado.

But what do I have to do? Set my projector HDMI range on Standard or Enhanced?

[mark0077]

Yeah its a mess.

Kado, if the drivers are feeding the entire desktop the wrong levels, then ffdshow can infact still solve the problem. You can tell it you are outputting to a limited device. You should see proper levels, but the best thing to do really is fix the problem... ie fix whats stopping you outputting in extended.

Well my summary of ATI and NVidia's levels options are.

Display Device Output Level (Entire desktop, therefore effecting video also)

NVidia: No option. Incorrectly defaults to limited output for some devices. Workaround is EDID Override option in driver inf before installation. Driver needs removal before reinstallation.

ATI: No option - Not sure if it assumes certain levels for certain displays, waiting on THX to confirm this assumption of levels on his display versus a CRT ;) Not sure of workaround for ATI drivers if confirmed.

Solution: Well for NVidia the solution is the custom entry in inf. OR if your only worried about video playback, ffdshow also has the option to select the type of device you are outputting but this will only fix video levels, the rest of the desktop will be output in the wrong level if the drivers send your display the wrong levels.

Video Color Level

NVidia (Used only by renderers are fed non rgb32): Option in newish control panel versions for 16-235 or 0-255, seems to get it right most of the time.

ATI (Used only by renderers are fed non rgb32): No option. (Is the BT601 registry hack equivalent to NVidia's 0-255 option?)

Solution: Don't use them ;) Use ffdshow's conversions if your machine can handle the extra bit of processing but you will lose hardware de-interlacing as the graphics card is now being fed pure rgb32 and can't de-interlace it.

[THX-UltraII]

@Kado:
I also don t see defferences with pictures 2 and 3 you showed. Both the same black and white intensity if you ask me.

[Kado]

I can't really say, you have to try for yourself.
I prefer to use the GPU conversion but since you have ATI that's not as simple because different ranges are used depending if the video is SD or HD (can't confirm).
Also some people say that ffdshow RGB conversion gives better colors than the one done by the GPU's.
I have to use 0-255 in the control panel to get the right levels.
For me if I use YUV2 I get blocking in the videos, using DXVA or YV12/RGB fixes that.
Try my method if does not work try mark007 one.
Also check this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1254306#post1254306).