Blue Ray to DVD....looks good

[Surf]

Just tried an AVC test clip on a "making of". Pretty good except it seems slightly soft(or it's my imagination). Neuron's MSsharpen may help??

Blue_Misfit, yes it is Verbatim which I hoarded when it went on sale and burn @6x, too impatient at 2.4x !! I don't need to save for WD or Popcorn...more of working up the courage to face the nagging. Already have 3 players and 2 Tosh A3...but will definitely consider WD's 2nd version which should have a slot for a 2TB. That would be awesome!

Question, can the mkv step be avoided? Not that it's a big deal...

Loadplugin(c:\Haali\avss.dll)#wherever that is
DSS2(x:\greatmovie.???)#mkv or?
#lol, what's this "god help me"?

[Lyris]

I want to make a DVD from a BD which is 23.976 fps progressive. I don't want to speed it up to 25 fps so I have a question:
is 23.976 fps progressive content allowed on a NTSC DVD ? Or is a 3:2 pulldown soft telecine required to be applied during the encoding ?

Even though I've read tons of FAQ's I couldn't find a clear answer to this question. I live in PAL land so I don't know much about NTSC material.

You can create an NTSC DVD which has a 2:3 or 3:2 pulldown flag contained in the video stream, yes. That means that only the 24 frames per second will be stored on the disc and the MPEG decoder in the player will repeat the necessary fields upon playback.

[Brazil2]

Simply encode the video with an MPEG-2 encoder like HC which supports soft pulldown. It will encode at 23.976, and apply the pulldown flags.

You can create an NTSC DVD which has a 2:3 or 3:2 pulldown flag contained in the video stream, yes. That means that only the 24 frames per second will be stored on the disc and the MPEG decoder in the player will repeat the necessary fields upon playback.
Encoding done, thanks for the answers :)

The scan type is shown as progressive in MediaInfo but Gspot says it's interlaced with 3:2 telecine (Pics/s: 23.976, Frames/s: 29.97, Fields/s: 59.94) which appears to be the same as some other NTSC DVD's I have.

Now one last thing which is still not clear for me:
Since there will be this movie only on the DVD, only one title, should I author the DVD as a NTSC DVD or a NTSC-film DVD ?

[manono]

Since there will be this movie only on the DVD, only one title, should I author the DVD as a NTSC DVD or a NTSC-film DVD ?
It might help if you told us what authoring program makes such a distinction. If you're giving it already compliant files to author, you shouldn't have to make such a choice. It also sounds as if it'll reencode it if you don't give it the answer it's looking for. Personally, I'd be very suspicious of any program that offers a choice like that.

[Brazil2]

It might help if you told us what authoring program makes such a distinction.

It also sounds as if it'll reencode it if you don't give it the answer it's looking for.
DVD Flick.
And I'm using its "copy stream" feature so it won't reencode.

I've already made some PAL DVD's with DVD Flick and never had any problem but this will be my very first NTSC DVD so I just need to know if I should use NTSC DVD or NTSC-film DVD format.

[manono]

This guide seems to say those are encoding settings, based on the source file framerate:

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/dvd-flick-guide.html

However, if you also have to make the choice when just authoring (makes no sense), then you definitely want NTSC-Film.

[simonhowson]

I'm trying to convert a VC1 encoded Blu-ray to DVD, but when I open my script in HCenc023, it says that the film is over 12 hours long (it is actually 2 hours 44 minutes). This means even after it has gone through one pass of the entire film, it keeps on encoding, instead of going to the 2nd pass.

I can play the TS file in Media Player Classic Home Cinema, so I thought that meant I would have the right decoders installed to decode the file properly. I create the script in MeGUI and CAN'T play back the file in the window that opens.

I also have PowerDVD 7.3 on my computer, is there a way to use those decoders?

Edit: I just tried converting the same script to x264 using MeGUI, and it too thinks the video is 12 hours long.

[setarip_old]

@simonhowson

Hi!

1) What's the title fo the BluRay?

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc?

3) Does a mounted image of the rip play properly under PowerDVD v.7.3? If so, what running time does it display?

[simonhowson]

1) What's the title fo the BluRay?
How the West Was Won (according to AnyDVD HD, it doesn't have BD+ protection if that is what you were alluding to).

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc?
I am running AnyDVD HD 6.5.4.0. I ripped it using TSMuxer by just selecting the main video track, and the Dolby Digital audio track and selecting demux. This produced a VC1 file and the Dolby Digital file.

3) Does a mounted image of the rip play properly under PowerDVD v.7.3? If so, what running time does it display? [/Color]
I haven't ripped it as an image, I will do that. Playing back the VC1 file in PowerDVD works, but it says it is 12 hours 5 minutes as well.

EDIT: I have ripped the entire disc, when I play the TS file it says the film is 5 hours 28 minutes long. WHich is closer, but still not 2 hours 44 minutes which it should be.

EDIT 2: I have successfully ripped the disc to an image, and mounted it in VirtualClone Drive. It plays perfectly, and shows the right time 2 hours 44 minutes 40 seconds.

I still can't figure out how to rip just the video and dolby digital track that I need without the vc1 file being read as if it is 12 hours or 5 hours long.

I am trying to rip the files from the image (i.e. not from the disc) using tsMuxeR now.

EDIT 3: If I use TsMuxer to extract the VC1 file to a TS file, it plays properly with the right time. If I just extract it to a VC1, it says the video is 12 hours long.

EDIT 4: I muxed the VC1 and Dolby Digital files into a MKV file using MKVmerge in MeGUI. The file plays properly in VLC including displaying the correct duration, even though VLC can't play the VC1 file on its own.

[turbojet]

If you haven't had success yet. What I would suggest is instead of demuxing the VC-1 track, load the m2ts directly with an avs like: directshowsource("00000.m2ts",audio=false) you may also need fps=23.976 depending on what decoder you are using.

The problem I believe is the .ts stream doesn't have fps info. I don't know if this is a bug of tsmuxer demux or not.

To tell what decoder you are using you can use graphstudio or graphedit, I would suggest using WMV9 from WMP11 as it handles almost everything and is the fastest decoder. You might be able to powerDVD 7.3 decoders, depending on the version if you make a graph like: file source (async) -> cyberlink demux -> cyberlink vc-1 decoder and use this in place of the m2ts in directshowsource of the avs.

[Surf]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:

Loadplugin(avss.dll) #Haali's
Loadplugin(Msharpen.dll) #Neuron's great sharpener!
DSS2(greatmovie.m2ts) #I didn't even demux!
Splineresize32(720,480)
Msharpen(9,100,hq=true,mask=false) #magnifico!

Now questions for the inhouse experts:

The above is proper? resize then sharpen or vice versa? Mild denoising thrown in? This particular new movie is very "clean".

Thanks again for all the help.

Now I am still waiting for that OXtail to brush up with his great but rough bdsup2sub prog.

[ron spencer]

@surf...do you find you NEED to use msharpen?

[Surf]

Apparently so, Ron.

I have been playing inside AVSP which is great with the ability of allowing a noobie user like me to use sliders for the settings. And Msharpen does NOT contribute noise, just making the picture with more "pop", more "hi-def" look. My eyes honestly could not distinguish the diff. I know I know it's still not hi-def....

[Lyris]

The problem I believe is the .ts stream doesn't have fps info. I don't know if this is a bug of tsmuxer demux or not.That would make sense, when I author BDs, I have to feed it the FPS info for each Clip by hand.

[ron spencer]

@surf...I never thought to try msharpen...will try it out!!!

[simonhowson]

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:
.

I got it to load properly using Haali splitter!

but now I have another problem. I want to encode the 2 hour 44 minute films to two single layer blanks. So I need to split the audio and video files at the 84 minute mark. What would be the best way to cut BOTH the VC1 image and the Dolby Digital audio files at exactly the same point?

[Surf]

Aww Simple Simon,

Don't go cheap now....using 2 single layer blanks. Might I suggest using dual layer disks instead? Then go nuts with the 1-pass 9000bits HC encoding cuz now you have tons of room?

Seriously, you may want to consider using AVIdemux instead of HCenc if you still insist on using 2 single layers. That's all I can think of. Write a simple script mentioned earlier and feed it thru avsproxygui(?) something like that.

The best solution? Sell you my never-opened sd version of that movie. :D

[davidcw]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.


Hi Surf,
Do you mind listing the software you used to do this?
Thanks.
davidcw

[simonhowson]

Aww Simple Simon,

Don't go cheap now....using 2 single layer blanks. Might I suggest using dual layer disks instead? Then go nuts with the 1-pass 9000bits HC encoding cuz now you have tons of room?

Seriously, you may want to consider using AVIdemux instead of HCenc if you still insist on using 2 single layers. That's all I can think of. Write a simple script mentioned earlier and feed it thru avsproxygui(?) something like that.

The best solution? Sell you my never-opened sd version of that movie. :D
I was converting the Blu-ray version because it was released in Smilebox format (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews40/how_the_west_was_won_blu-ray.htm) to simulate the film's correct appearance on a deeply curved Cinerama (http://widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingcr1.htm) screen.

Unfortunately Warner Home Video hasn't released the Smilebox version on DVD, but I needed to show some clips from the film in the Smilebox format over a Standard Definition projector. The film doesn't look right when shown on a flat screen. The screen curvature is designed to remove some of the barrel distortion caused by the three wide angle lenses on the cameras.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews40/how%20the%20west%20was%20won%20blu-ray/%20smiley%20800%20snapshot20080911190312.jpg

Regarding using single layer blanks. I thought these are generally considered more compatible than dual layer blanks? I needed to make sure the DVDs would work on an old player in a lecture theatre that I don't ordinarily have access to. So I didn't want to burn a dual layer blank only to find out that it wouldn't play. By using single layer blanks I was still able to use an average bitrate of around 6.5 Mbps, which worked out fine. In most Cinerama films that camera is usually static, because fast camera movement on the massive and deeply curved screens could cause motion sickness!

[simonhowson]

Hi Surf,
Do you mind listing the software you used to do this?
Thanks.
davidcw

I know you addressed your post to Surf, but this is what I used.

Haali Media Spliter to decode the VC1
http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/
MeGUI to create an AviSynth script for the video and to convert the audio:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/megui/
HcENC23 to load the AVIsynth script, and convert the HDVC1 to MPEG2
http://www.bitburners.com/software/hc-encoder-v023/4036/

To get the audio and video files off the disc, I just use the HD Stream Extractor in MeGUI (Tools, HD Stream extractor).

That took out the VC1 file and the Dolby Digital file. I had to convert the DD file down to 448 Kbps, because I don't think 640 Kbps files can be used for DVDs.

My AVS script just resized the image to 720 X 480. I then used the soft telecine (Pull Down) function in HCenc to create a 23.976 progressive NTSC DVD.

[davidcw]

I know you addressed your post to Surf, but this is what I used.


Thanks Simon. :thanks:

[Jan Marijniszoon]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:

Loadplugin(avss.dll) #Haali's
Loadplugin(Msharpen.dll) #Neuron's great sharpener!
DSS2(greatmovie.m2ts) #I didn't even demux!
Splineresize32(720,480)
Msharpen(9,100,hq=true,mask=false) #magnifico!

Now questions for the inhouse experts:

The above is proper? resize then sharpen or vice versa? Mild denoising thrown in? This particular new movie is very "clean".

Thanks again for all the help.

Now I am still waiting for that OXtail to brush up with his great but rough bdsup2sub prog.


Did you not forget the folowing:

LoadPlugin("ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601")

[ron spencer]

colormatrix??? what for?

ColorMatrix corrects the colors of MPEG-2 streams of dvds. More correctly, many MPEG-2 streams use slightly different coefficients (called Rec.709) for storing the color information than AviSynth's color conversion routines or the XviD/DivX decoders (called Rec.601) do, with the result that DivX/XviD clips or MPEG-2 clips encoded by TMPGEnc/QuEnc are displayed with slighty off colors (which looks like a small difference in brightness). This can be checked by opening the MPEG-2 stream directly in VDubMod.

this needed for hcenc? I have never used....stuff looks great

In addition, you need to use DGIndex to figure out colorimetry forst right? Dgindex is not used here

[manono]

colormatrix??? what for?
Because Hi-Def uses BT.709 and Std-Def uses BT.601. If you don't take the change into account when down converting the colors will change slightly.
In addition, you need to use DGIndex to figure out colorimetry forst right?
No.

[ron spencer]

So all HD is this? Necessry for hc as well?
Good to know

[laserfan]

And Msharpen does NOT contribute noise, just making the picture with more "pop", more "hi-def" look.I'm surprised to see this filter in the chain. One would think a "sharpen" when converting from HD to SD would be the *last thing* one would need, meaning "not needed" of course. I know I should just try it myself, but I wonder if anyone can comment on why this might be needed, apart from Surf's personal preference.

[ron spencer]

I know with digital imaging when you downsize for the web sharpening is really needed for nicer images. I suspect the same holds true for downsizing from HD. I do not know a mathematical reason why, but it does seem to be useful. The MSHARPEN setting of 9 is really conservative and does no damage. I quite like it and find it is a good suggestion....I never changed colorspace though, as was mentioned a few posts above, but will try that later.

[Jan Marijniszoon]

So all HD is this? Necessry for hc as well?
Good to know

I compared my conversion with a retail dvd.
Without "ColorMatrix" the colors were alot darker than the retail dvd. With "ColorMatrix" the colors looked simular to the retail dvd.
So it is recommended to use "ColorMatrix" before you resize.

[laserfan]

I compared my conversion with a retail dvd.
Without "ColorMatrix" the colors were alot darker than the retail dvd. With "ColorMatrix" the colors looked simular to the retail dvd.
So it is recommended to use "ColorMatrix" before you resize.Where in the chain did you put it, or...can you just share your script?

[SquallMX]

Where in the chain did you put it, or...can you just share your script?

You can put it after the resize, it's faster than before the resize, with pretty much the same quality but with faster processing.

:helpful:

[Rumbah]

My script for the video BluRay to DVD conversion looks like this:
Directshowsource("movie.mkv")
Assumefps(25)
Lanczos4Resize(720,576)
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", threads=0)
I use the Assumefps(25) for a PAL speedup.

[Jan Marijniszoon]

You can put it after the resize, it's faster than before the resize, with pretty much the same quality but with faster processing.

:helpful:

Yes but I am a quality freak, so does it matter? I don't mind the extra time, even if it adds only little quality.

So for maximum quality, when to apply ColorMatrix? Before or after downscaling?

[Rumbah]

Just test it and create three test clips, one without ColorMatrix as negative reference and one with Colormatrix before and one after resizing. If you cannot distinguish the latter two, then you can safely use ColorMatrix after resizing.