Blue Ray to DVD....looks good [Archive]

ron spencer

28th September 2008, 13:17

Dark Shikari

28th September 2008, 13:20

This is completely unsurprising; Blu-rays are sometimes mastered better than DVDs, and sometimes DVDs are not very well encoded either.

(Of course, it can go the other way around, with some DVDs being mastered much better than their respective Blu-rays).

ron spencer

28th September 2008, 15:20

it surprised me a bit...I figured what you said would be the case, but convertx2dvd is just a simple one pass encoder....I suspect you would get even better quality with 2-pass (why they do not ofer this I do not know). I looked at some high action scenes again...man is the conversion nice.

setarip_old

28th September 2008, 16:49

@ron spencer

Hi!

1) Does this program rip original BluRay disc to your hard drive?

2) Does it make a full DVD backup of the BluRay disc or "movie only"?

ron spencer

28th September 2008, 18:12

@setarip

I use AnyDVD to rip whole move...BDInfo to find what mts files are in the MAIN MOVIE play list, then use txmuxer to mux only the main movie an audio into m2ts.

VSO's ConvertX then takes the m2ts and in 1 hour one-pass I have a dvd that looks stunning....mind you the DVD I tried is only 75 mins, so single layer conversion is fine...may try a longer movie for dual layer later.

Impressive....better than my original SD DVD of this movie...may do this for all my blue rays if I have time....still if they had 2 pass is may be better, but perhaps not.

@neuron2

not sure why you put spam in my message...not trying to spam...just curious as to why BR to DVD looks nicer than DVD in this case...esp, since h264 is very highly compressed vs. mpeg-2

setarip_old

29th September 2008, 04:24

Thanks for the info ;>}

lithoc

30th September 2008, 05:30

I use Avisynth(just crop & resize with no additional filters) > HC_Enc 2pass (HVSBest matrix) ......
Look great!!! Even in medium bitrate +4mbps

You need to tweak HC_Enc settings to get optimum results

IMHO. to get best of DVD. try encode into 16:9 rather than 2.4:1
You'll get full 720x480!!!

ron spencer

1st October 2008, 14:48

what is your avs scripts to encode the h264 from BR?

you use graphedit as well?

to get to DVD you would need to resize...you just use lanzcos resize?

EuropeanMan

3rd October 2008, 05:47

from high to low, use spline64resize

DirectShowSource("F:\movie name\BDMV\STREAM\00011.m2ts",fps=23.9760431376968,audio=false)

Crop()

Resize()

Lyris

16th October 2008, 16:24

So I tried [spam removed] for fun last night converting my Blue Ray of The Nightmare Before Christmas to DVD. I was surprised to find that it looked better than my original DVD version. Should this be the case? If this is something that one could hope for then backing stuff up for trips to the cottage just got better. Any comments on this from the video gurus?

This is not surprising in the slightest; because commercial DVDs are subjected to low-pass filtering (usually excessively) prior the compression. This means that their effective resolution is actually lower than you'd expect. High frequency details are removed, to avoid compression artefacts whilst facilitating lower bit rates and faster encoding.

Home made BD->DVD conversions done without any sort of filter are likely to look considerably better than the official DVDs.

c2turbo

19th October 2008, 05:36

I seen a prog. here not that long ago i think it was avgo (media recorder). It says that all u have to do is play the BD file on your bd player and avgo will copy it anywhere you want , one Step BD2DVD or BD2 psp ps2 or other media players ! Has anyone tryed it ? I dont have hd or bd player so I cant say it will ,but author says it will .I would think you could play hd movie thats on hard disk and copy it to dvd with out down grading contents- movie !! This is supposed to simple, fast and true !

mikeylikess99

14th January 2009, 18:53

hi, chiming in a bit late here, but have a question regarding putting bd content on dvd. i actually followed the process of tsremuxing etc, and splitting, and while it plays on nero fine, when i try burning the movie on to dvd, my samsung player-1500 series says it cant read disk. anyone. tyvm in advance.

ron spencer

17th January 2009, 02:53

yep....sorry but it is a major issue now. All has to do with firmware of your player. If you put Blu Ray on DVD, your player needs to have a firmware to read it...many don't. I have gone to many elec. stores to test and alot fail. My LG BH200 had a firmware update that removed this feature...so I flashed it back.

You need:

1. a single layer DVD with BR content on it.
2. a dual layer DVD with BR content on it.
3. A BD-R (blank 25 gig blu ray blank) withg BR content on it.

Take all these to video store BEFORE you buy a blu ray player to be sure they will play blu ray content on writeable disc.

Assuming you used ImgBurn to create a UDF 2.5 file structure (blu ray), you are just out of luck. It is your hardware that is not letting you play. Nothing you can do I am afraid (again assuming you made it correctly).

You could sell the unit and buy one that will play the stuff (Sony will I think)

mikeylikess99

17th January 2009, 22:14

hi ron, thanks for the heads up. im kinda disapointed that this sumsung wont read dvd disk with bluray content, after reading that others are able to do so. im curtiuos to know which models actually do so. anyone have a link on such info. thanks

setarip_old

18th January 2009, 00:07

@mikeylikes99

Hi!

Since you didn't specifically respond to one of the points made by "Ron Spencer", I'll repeat it in question form:

Did you (as you must) burn your disc using UDF 2.5 format?

mikeylikess99

18th January 2009, 01:21

@mikeylikes99

Hi!

Since you didn't specifically respond to one of the points made by "Ron Spencer", I'll repeat it in question form:

Did you (as you must) burn your disc using UDF 2.5 format?

Hi Set, yes indeed i did put the udf at 2.5. however im reading that in my manual for the samsung bdp-1500 that discs must be finalized at the burn stage. im wondering if this is the problem.

ron spencer

18th January 2009, 01:48

Use imgburn to do this only. What did u burn with

mikeylikess99

18th January 2009, 01:50

Use imgburn to do this only. What did u burn with

hey ron i used nero burning rom.

ron spencer

18th January 2009, 04:15

That is likely your problem. Use imgburn to burn your stuff to udf 2.5

TM2-Megatron

18th January 2009, 06:13

setarip_old

18th January 2009, 07:09

@mikeylikes99

Check out this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1237966#post1237966

rica

19th January 2009, 02:10

mikeylikess99

19th January 2009, 04:53

@mikeylikes99

Check out this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1237966#post1237966

Hey Setarip, thanks for the heads up on those links, as im sure they will help in near future. What i can tell you is that i WAS able to view the movie. Funny thing is i was only able to do so when i did a "test" run using nero and dvd video. i was totally amazed at the video definitely blu ray caliber, and the audio was phenominal. significant other could not elief it with her own eyes. i am however having troubles getting sound(audio) from a copy of a movie a buddy gave me of his own. is there somwere here that deals with that type of discussion, i can even give info from gspot. tyvm in advance.

setarip_old

19th January 2009, 08:26

@Ron Spencer

You might want to try (freeware) DVD Flick, which DOES offer two-pass - most impressive results ;>}

jfcarbel

19th January 2009, 11:10

Another method i'd suggest if you have an nVidia card:

DGAVCNVDecode for h264 source and DGVC1Decode for VC1 source.

Create a dga or dgv script file.

Run CUVID Server and serve with these AVS files:

For DGAVCDecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGAVC\DGAVCDecodeNV.dll")
AVCSource("G:\CETK\New_out.dga")
LanczosResize(720,480)

For DGVC1DecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGVC1\DGVC1DecodeNV.dll")
VC1Source("G:\City\video_out.dgv")
LanczosResize(720,480)

Open those avs files with HC022 and convert them to mpeg2.

Ati owners may use DGAVCDecode for h264; it's a software based application which uses Libav codec. For VC1, there is no SW based solution so far...
_ _ __

Also would it not make sense to crop any widescreen black letterbox prior to the encode. Not real familiar with avs to say how thats done. But tools like BD Rebuilder beta may already do this. You might try this tool.

UPDATE: LOL, Ron I see you already are checking into this in another thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144354).

rica

20th January 2009, 01:04

But tools like BD Rebuilder beta may already do this. You might try this tool.

Yes there are one click solutions like BDRebuilder and AVStoDVD.
But what i would like is to choose my filters/ or methods by myself.
So it was just a suggestion; another one would be using a graph based avs method.
Sure you may prefer to use an one click application; it's up to you. :)

Edit: This encoding has been done using the method i gave on previous post:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=610f03b89c15442e91b20cc0d07ba4d2866e9feea9a88b46

_ _ _ _ _ _

setarip_old

28th January 2009, 00:14

@ron spencerI was surprised to find that it looked better than my original DVD version.Would you be good enough to post a couple of images for comparison?

rica

28th January 2009, 00:37

set,
you will find most surprising when you check what encoders have been using by professional studios: most of them is 50 dolar ones; you may check with MediaInfo...
So, encoded files to mpeg from a BD with HC might be look much better than the original DVD.
Check uploaded file on my previous post.

_ _ _ _ _

setarip_old

28th January 2009, 01:38

@rica

Thanks, but I was already aware of the link in your previous post.

I'm curious to see the results obtained by "ron spencer" using the methodology he described...

rica

28th January 2009, 02:30

Oh, OK.
Sorry set.

SquallMX

28th January 2009, 05:49

My own comparation using The Dark Knight:

Top Retail DVD9 NTSC (Warner, 4.5 Mbps), Bottom Bluray2DVD Backup DVD5 (CCE SP2, 3.0 Mbps using Avisynth with DGAVCDecode):

http://www.imagechile.net/img/img4_1228591298z.png
http://www.imagechile.net/img/img9_1228581303e.png

http://www.imagechile.net/img/img6_1228581123i.png
http://www.imagechile.net/img/img9_1228581001v.png

Conclusion: Warner MPEG-2 encoder sucks really bad :mad:, Cinema Craft Encoder SP2 at 2/3 of the original bitrate is the absolute winner :cool:.

nwg

8th February 2009, 01:13

It's not hard to create a DVD better than the orignal. Too many DVD's have things like Edge Enhancement that can ruin a DVD. The R2 Iron Man DVD is very poor sometimes and the Blu Ray to DVD I made is much better and has none of the edge enhancement that plagues the original DVD.

Sharc

8th February 2009, 12:10

Confirmed.
DVDs created from BD are often better than the retail DVD, and always better that backups of retail DVDs in my experience.
I use HCenc for mpeg-2 recoding and DVDAuthorGUI for muxing and authoring.
Script which I open in HCenc (for PAL):

loadplugin("...your path here....\DGAVCDecodeNV.dll")
AVCSource("...your path here...\your movie.dga")
Spline36Resize(720,576)
AssumeFPS(25)

AssumeFPS(25) is for PAL speedup.
For audio "speedup" I use eac3to.

Added:
Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

gizzin

8th February 2009, 14:35

god damn it, now I'm going to have to screen the dvds, and bluerays I buy. Thanks guys :)

~bT~

8th February 2009, 15:12

Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

not an issue here in the UK as most of the stuff can handle both formats.

Sharc

8th February 2009, 17:02

Yeah, it's handled here as well. I am just wondering about the technology behind it i.e. how the "odd" BD frame rates align with the 25 or 50 frames (50Hz power frequency sync) of PAL playback devices for a smooth playback. Maybe the 25 or 50 are just historic and modern (progressive) devices synchronize directly to any (23.976, 24.000, 25, 39....) progressive source frame rate?
For DVD there have always been 2 different versions for NTSC and PAL using their dedicated methods like pulldown or speedup as far as I understand. For BD there are no NTSC or PAL versions any more (not as I would regret....).

Oh well, this is perhaps getting somewhat off topic. Never mind.

Sysmic Wave

12th February 2009, 12:15

Doesn't really surprise me, either. I edited some footage from the WALL-E Blu-Ray (which uses H.264) for a fanvideo, and I burned a DVD version of it in addition to the 1080p *.mp4 on my computer; and it looked absolutely incredible on played on an upscaling DVD player to a 46" 1080p LCD TV. I encoded the MPEG-2 using TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress, and I wasn't really sure what to expect; but I can't imagine the regular DVD for this movie looking any better (I haven't seen the film on DVD, though)

Has anyone tried to encode to MPEG-2 after compressing a M2TS to fit on a DVD-R using TMPGEnc 4 Xpress.

For example, I ripped, muxed to M2TS and then, using MeGui compressed the file to a 4.37 GB MKV.

Then, I stuck that back into TSMuxer and recreated a M2TS which plays brilliantly on my PS3.

I then decided to reencode the DVD sized M2TS to MPEG-2 with TMPGEnc but even after a 2 pass encode the video is really jerky.

If i try to encode the original M2TS, the blu-ray rip, or the MKV the video is fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks

smok3

12th February 2009, 15:41

i doubt one would be able to do it better from a lossy source, even if it is HD and even if you use '3 times' better mpeg2 encoder.

Rumbah

12th February 2009, 18:02

@Shark: The ideal situation is if the player can output 24p and the TV can understand it and do its own thing.

Unfortunately, no player can do a PAL speedup although it would be great.

Normally the player does a 3:2 pulldown to 60i. The TV has to deinterlace it to 60p. If the TV does not accept 60 Hz, then it discards 10 fields per second. As the whole process is not very clever most modern TVs detect that and apply inverse telecine and do their own thing.

Sharc

12th February 2009, 23:17

Thanks Rumbah. I thought it must be something rather tricky for the PAL/50Hz world.

nwg

19th February 2009, 17:58

Added:
Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

It is the same as in the US. If the display cannot handle 1080p/24 properly then it defaults to 1080p/60. My display is 720p so while it accepts 1080p/24 it comes out as 720p/24.

I have done Blu Ray on DVD and kept the 24hz while resizing down to 720p. On playback it turns into 720p/60. If I upscale it to 1080p it comes out as 1080p/24 again which is then back down to 720p/24. Although, all the up and downscaling doesn't sound ideal, it still does look good.

I always use 720p for BD to DVD as 1080p processing takes a lot longer to do. I barely get 1fps processing.

Lyris

16th March 2009, 10:07

Yes, BDs of movies in Europe are just mastered at 23.976fps, just as they are in the US. The player will output this as 60i or 60p for compatibility with TVs that do not support 24p input natively.

It's not so much the detail reduction that surprises me on Hollywood titles, it's the amount of compression artefacts they still manage to get despite having almost no high frequency video data left. Shocking...

Surf

14th April 2009, 02:00

I have lurking around for quite sometime now and found that my preference in backup is not too popular.

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to sdDVD dual layer, movie only for upconverting standalones. Oh well.

Question on dealing with VC1...how and what's the substitute to Neuron's Nvidia based dgvc1decNV? I have an ATI 2600XT...

2nd, there was a brief debate of the choice of resizer...so which is it appropriate? Bilinear, Lanzco4, spline...?

3rd, FOX1 is the suitable matrix for over 7000kbs?

TIA

Blue_MiSfit

14th April 2009, 09:02

1) A good substitute would be WMVideo Decoder DMO, or ffdshow
2) Downsizing from HD to SD - I usually prefer spline36, but that's just me.
3) Not sure :) I recall the FOX matrices are "high bitrate" as they say, but I don't do a lot of MPEG-2 encoding.

I bet that will be one nice looking DVD when you're all finished. A pity you're not doing at least 720p :P

~MiSfit

tom942

14th April 2009, 12:18

@Surf

I just talk from my experience enconding backups with DVD-RB and using sometimes a standalone encoder, mainly HC.

To question 3, it is recommended for bitrates over 4000 kpbs, but mainly you must take into account the final quant. It is a matrix that fits perfectly between an average quant of 7 to 10. Even up to 12. Just check the final encode with Bitrate Viewer, similar app or if you use HC, enable log report.

I hope it helps you :).

Surf

21st April 2009, 01:05

Blue_MiSfit
I bet that will be one nice looking DVD when you're all finished. A pity you're not doing at least 720p :P

Lol, that's what I hope to achieve! The reason I avoided 720p means I still to play either through the computer or a blu-ray standalone. I am sure that the movie down convert to a dual layer with max bits and one ac5.1 and a subtitle is plenty satisfactory when played with a upconverting player. Someday I probably will, when the player's $49 and the i7 with 8ghz...:D

Now will any kind soul share a simple script to feed the VC1 to HCenc? Read somewhere about Haley comet aligned with graphedit...

TIA

Brazil2

21st April 2009, 14:32

I want to make a DVD from a BD which is 23.976 fps progressive. I don't want to speed it up to 25 fps so I have a question:
is 23.976 fps progressive content allowed on a NTSC DVD ? Or is a 3:2 pulldown soft telecine required to be applied during the encoding ?

Even though I've read tons of FAQ's I couldn't find a clear answer to this question. I live in PAL land so I don't know much about NTSC material.

Blue_MiSfit

21st April 2009, 19:50

@Skurf:
So... you're going to spend all that cash on (verbatim, right?) dual layer DVD+R discs, go through all the hassle of doing a 2 pass MPEG-2 encode, then authoring a DVD, then burning it (at 2.4x, right?), all so you can save some money on a player?

My advice? Save up and get one of the awesome little network media players like the WDTV (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572&language=en) or the Popcorn Hour (http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/).

Then just do a nice high quality 720p or 1080p x264 encode, and keep all the quality of your source, and stream it across the network or direct connect with an external drive.

The script you asked for will look something like this:

DSS2("movie.mkv") #This should be the MKV containing H.264 or VC-1 that eac3to rips off the disc
Spline36Resize(720,480) #God help you.

That's all you really need for downconverting to 480p for DVD encoding.

@Brazil2
Yes of course it is. That's what soft pulldown is for!

Simply encode the video with an MPEG-2 encoder like HC which supports soft pulldown. It will encode at 23.976, and apply the pulldown flags. Author / burn the result and you will get perfect 24p out of your progressive scan dvd player or PC, and perfect 60i when hooked into an interlaced set.

~MiSfit

manono

22nd April 2009, 10:51

Author / burn the result and you will get perfect 24p out of your progressive scan dvd player or PC, and perfect 60i when hooked into an interlaced
It's correct that it'll play the fields in a 3 2 3 2 pattern at 59.94 fields per second to an interlaced display. With a player set for progressive scan and outputting to a progressive display, it'll still play in a 3 2 3 2 pattern, but at 59.94 frames per second, and not 24p (or 23.976fps). What happens when played on a PAL set is determined, as I understand it, by whether or not the display can play NTSC or must convert it first to PAL.