Help with creating BD5/BD9 and x264 profiles

[deank]

That is acording AVC levels not bluray's, i mean L4.1 allow up to 62.5mbps for AVC level but Blu-Ray level allow up to 40mbps, so maybe 10mbps AVC is to high for Blu-Ray SD, i think we maybe need some Blu-Ray level limits table to be sure what is alowed and what not :)

And if i understood you correctly every PAL DVD MPEG2 25P are blu-ray compliant without recompress?

Did you follow this topic at all?! Give me a brake!

****

I don't understand how a simple question can turn out to a mess of answers:

The guy needs to get his DVDs burned to BD-R discs. He already converted (or wonders if it will work if he would) all DVDs to H.264 - BUT - HE - WONDERS if they will all play in blu-ray players.

This is what im trying to do:

I have the first season of lost on dvd, i convert each episode with ripbot264 for example and set the size of each episode to 1GB, if i add all those episodes and burn them on a 25GB BD disc ... will it play on a Blu ray player? Is the 720x576 resolution a problem? or since BD media is still expensive i can put 11 episodes on a DVD9.

The simple answers are:

1) You don't re-encode your DVD's and get them directly on Blu-ray discs (output will be 5-10% larger than original MPEG2) (BEST choice)
2) You re-encode them to have the original resolution with H.264 codec, profile main/extended, Level 3.0 or 3.1 @ ~10/14mbps. (output will be smaller... probably)

What is that all about?

[ricardo.santos]

Thanks G_M_C for testing it out.

[shon3i]

Did you follow this topic at all?! Give me a brake!
I am, of course, but I wanted confirm some things

[G_M_C]

L3.2 doesn't work.

Running L3.0 now (which is basically the same, only less bitrate I guess ? So i don't expect any change. Ahh, one more difference; x264 mentions max MVRange of 256).

Could try Mpeg2 later through HCEnc 0.23

L3.0 doesnt work either. Tried both with SAR 64/45 and SAR 1/1.

MPEG2 also doesn't work.

Conclusion: The Panasonic does what the spec says; Only 576i. Just as i suspected, and just as my advise was: Stick to the specs, and it'll work. Specs aren't there for nothing.

[deank]

MPEG2 doesn't work?

Because he wondered since post 1, I'd suggest him to buy a Playstation3, which will solve his problem with disc storage and all these problems (most NTSC guys have), because a PAL Playstation3 will play (DVDs/USBs/SDHCs/MSs):

* 720x480i
* 720x480p
* 720x576i
* 720x576p
* 1280x720p
* 1440x1080i
* 1440x1080p
* 1920x1080i
* 1920x1080p

in ALL frame-rates that exist and coded in MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264 (AVC).

Although some users around don't accept PS3 as a BD player (may be because it is the FIRST consumer BDP available) I'd strongly suggest buying one (PAL version... not NTSC) if one is planning on watching DVD/BD backups.

[G_M_C]

MPEG2 doesn't work?

Because he wondered since post 1, I'd suggest him to buy a Playstation3, which will solve his problem with disc storage and all these problems (most NTSC guys have), because a PAL Playstation3 will play (DVDs/USBs/SDHCs/MSs):

* 720x480i
* 720x480p
* 720x576i
* 720x576p
* 1280x720p
* 1440x1080i
* 1440x1080p
* 1920x1080i
* 1920x1080p

in ALL frame-rates that exist and coded in MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264 (AVC).

The BD30 sticks to the blu-ray specs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc) like it's paranoid.

MPEG2 @ 576i should work, like H264 works with 576i (i've got one that plays fine, with DTS-MA even).

[ricardo.santos]

Ok guys, bare with me a bit, 576i means that content needs to be interlaced? That and only that, from what we discussed here prevents what we discussed from working?

Ill be off for a while but ill be back later for the final thoughts.

Thanks everyone

[deank]

@G_M_C: I think there is no need to waste more time, discussing his options, because he doesn't even own a HW player to test with. Topics as this one can continue forever.

You know what works for you :) (as per BD specs).
I know what works for me (in PS3 - breaking AVCHD specs).

PAL PS3 plays all - that's it - no need to comment. I tested like 100 of samples already (in file mode and AVCHD / Blu-ray mode).

Dean

[G_M_C]

[...]

You know what works for you :) (as per BD specs).
I know what works for me (in PS3 - breaking AVCHD specs).

PAL PS3 plays all - that's it - no need to comment. I tested like 100 of samples already (in file mode and AVCHD / Blu-ray mode).

Dean

Yes, but my tests also prove a point in the discussion we had (partly through PM). My common sense says that applications like BD-Rebuilder, and even your MultiAVCHD should work according to the specs as best as possible. That's is the only way you can make an application that works universally on all players; Also meaning that the application is usable by virtually everybody.

As soon as you deviate from the specs you exclude users, simply cause their players cant play the streams that the application produces. Not only will that lead tt disappointments, but also to many questions, reports of bugs (that arent bugs but deviations of the standard) and many many hours lost searching for solutions that aren't there. And inadvertently all that will lead to the same conclusion again; Namely stick to the standard.

So my feeling says that apps should be made according to the specifications that are there.

Only through "advanced" options can you implement deviations from those standards. But mind you; Those "advanced" settings will no doubt lead to bug-reports/questions/messy results themselves (by people that use settings without need to/knowledge/stupidity etc..... :rolleyes: )

[deank]

I agree. I'd rather be silent than suggest out-of-BD-specs options. My point was about using a player, that (at the moment) handles most (including non-compliant) video properties.

I'd strongly suggest to follow Blu-ray requirements when burning to BD-R/RE discs and to follow AVCHD specs (much more restrictive) when burning to DVD (or AVCHD to BD-R discs).

Dean

[ricardo.santos]

I think there is no need to waste more time, discussing his options, because he doesn't even own a HW player to test with.
Dean

One more reason to ask before buying one, and i thanked him for testing, you made it sound like i wasnt gratefull...

So your option in multi avchd
[Blu-ray for BD-R] - multiAVCHD will create output suitable to burn to BD-R/RE media. Useful for Blu-ray only compatible players. Disc will be recognized as "Blu-ray".

its no so compatible like the muxing profile says it is, you said "720x576-ac3-level3" were compatible but GMC tests prove otherwise.

There is no problem to use SD (standard definition) video for Primary video. In fact - i don't see how you can use Secondary video at all.
720x480 and 720x576 will both work without any problems since you are in PAL territory

-----------------------**************-----------------------------------------------------

Too much tech for me, the way i read your comments and Multiavchd description made me think it would work.

I think GMC explained it, probably said more and better than what i would say

Yes, but my tests also prove a point in the discussion we had (partly through PM). My common sense says that applications like BD-Rebuilder, and even your MultiAVCHD should work according to the specs as best as possible. That's is the only way you can make an application that works universally on all players; Also meaning that the application is usable by virtually everybody.

Thanks everyone

[deank]

:) Whatever... I hope it all work for you in the end.

[Ghitulescu]

so maybe 10mbps AVC is to high for Blu-Ray SD

No, I've run also 19Mbps h.264 on my Pio (also Denons, Sonys, LGs) with no problems at all ...

[G_M_C]

I agree. I'd rather be silent than suggest out-of-BD-specs options. My point was about using a player, that (at the moment) handles most (including non-compliant) video properties.

I'd strongly suggest to follow Blu-ray requirements when burning to BD-R/RE discs and to follow AVCHD specs (much more restrictive) when burning to DVD (or AVCHD to BD-R discs).

Dean

Well there is another benifit about sticking to the standards; I think you can or will save a lot of time. Cause searching for, or tracking down "hacks" to make non-compliant streams work cost a lot of time.

Think back to the investigations that went into making cropped streams work; Roman invested a lot of time trying to do this through slices, and you invested a lot of time in investigating the "hack with the short stream in front". The first option did not work at all, so time was lost; And even your option doesnt work for all players.

My idea was to do like jdobbs; Develop an application that works according to the standards at first. Make it so that it works as good as it can get, and then (and preferably only then) add options/extra's/hacks.

This method will save time, cause you dont have to track down as many bugs, and the "hacks"/"options" have more time to be found (and you'll see that others find them, starting threads like "WooT i've found ....." ;) ).

[Ghitulescu]

Well there is another benifit about sticking to the standards; I think you can or will save a lot of time. Cause searching for, or tracking down "hacks" to make non-compliant streams work cost a lot of time.

Think back to the investigations that went into making cropped streams work; Roman invested a lot of time trying to do this through slices, and you invested a lot of time in investigating the "hack with the short stream in front". The first option did not work at all, so time was lost; And even your option doesnt work for all players.

My idea was to do like jdobbs; Develop an application that works according to the standards at first. Make it so that it works as good as it can get, and then (and preferably only then) add options/extra's/hacks.

This method will save time, cause you dont have to track down as many bugs, and the "hacks"/"options" have more time to be found (and you'll see that others find them, starting threads like "WooT i've found ....." ;) ).

What to do when the standard changes...?
BD is in a continuous change ... They declared war on piracy so they keep changing it at no costs.

[G_M_C]

What to do when the standard changes...?
BD is in a continuous change ... They declared war on piracy so they keep changing it at no costs.

Please keep up, that remark is off-topic; Were not talking DRM here, but technical standards like resolutions/framerates/muxers etc.

[deank]

Right.... The 'black clip' was only for PS3 in the first place - never for any other type of player. And about the standards - I think multiAVCHD follows them without any hacks and tricks.

[G_M_C]

Yup, it seems to work as intended; But it still relies on tsMuxeR. And tsMuxeR's BD output doesnt seem to work on all players for instance. We're still looking for a muxer that can make/mux BD's, that work on all players i.e. exactly according to the specs.

And this seems to go for AVCHD-output too, i remember seeing threads about some folders that have to be deleted for some players, and not for others (JAR-folders or what was it ?).

[deank]

Muxing modes in tsMuxeR have nothing to do with multiAVCHD and they never affected it. multiAVCHD uses its own index/movieobject and reprocesses all clpi/mpls files so they conform with the standard (and selected output mode) - this was since day one :) + it doesn't use tsMuxeR's output folders/structure.

multiAVCHD's output is compatible with tons of devices (like bd players, camcoders and TVs) which says enough. It has 6 different output modes, not just simple AVCHD or Blu-ray.

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/tg10-experimental.jpg

[Ghitulescu]

Please keep up, that remark is off-topic; Were not talking DRM here, but technical standards like resolutions/framerates/muxers etc.

Who's talking DRM here? I just pinpointed the real cause. You prefere that the BD standard changes due to "technical advance" ;)?

When I got interested in BD stuff, there were the times of BDAV for consumer and BDMV for professionals. The initial software (like PowerProducer) yielded BDAV discs only. I'm not sure you'll find here anymore BD players that would accept BDAV on BDR/RE (according to their user manuals or web pages). Now consumer video also needs to be BDMV or it cannot be played at all. Revision 3 is still in progress ... to my limited knowledge.

[ricardo.santos]

:) Whatever to you too... hope everything works out for your programs

[turbojet]

Dd you ever get your answer about encoding SD with x264?

If not you can use these megui profiles (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?rovnmozmtjx). They use pretty common settings.
In your case you'd use: 576i 4:3 or 576i 16:9 dependent on if it's letterbox or anamorphic.