Is there a way to encrypt/protect textual subtitles?

[The Professor]

Hello,

First off, I'd like to thank everybody who's volunteering to and sharing their knowledge, was it in helping people, or was it in programming applications.

As many of you know, textual subtitles are most common (most notably .srt and .sub), for its easiness of use and its small size, etc...

However, in the same time, it's the easiest format to steal! After hours and hours of translating a movie, and after big efforts, someone simply downloads the subtitles, opens it with Notepad, changes the name of the translator to his name, then publishes it as his own work.

Therefore, I was really hoping to find a solution for this, so if you can help me out, it would be much appreciated.

So, here's what I'm thinking of: I'm wondering if something like the following exists or can exist.

Subtitles format that -

1) Can't be edited.
2) Allows you to change font (type and size...).
3) Can be synchronized, spilt and joined.
4) Can be hardcoded in order to watch on PC or DVD.

Like if there were a way to "protect" an .SRT file from editing. To do the same with regular .SRT files, but you can't view it on Notepad or SubtitleWorkshp or any other application that supports it, only you can watch it with the movie...

I don't know if it can be done or not, but I'm talking also about the idea itself, and I'm sure one of the geniuses out there can do something, like a new format or something, or anything else that might help.

I hope I don't sound romantic, or in dream land, if you will... but unfortunately a lot of people suffer because of that, so if there were anything that can be done, it would be much helpful and appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Gornot]

I have to disappoint you by answering: yes, you do live in a dreamland.... First off, even if (.srt) subs can be protected, how can you expect to manipulate them in any other way besides just selecting them in order to watch them (and changing the font/size in DirectVobSub). I am a newby at video/audio/sub "manipulation", but I can surely tell that either it's impossible or very hard to achieve.

Wouldn't it just be easier to mux the sub directly into the video stream? That way no n00bs can steal your translations and claim them as your own. If, on the other hand, you just want to distribute your subbed translations, I'm afraid you'll have to live with the fact that anyone can steal them.

One way to find out who's stealing them (if it occurs) is to change your approach on making those translation subs. If you've ever watched an anime with english subtitles, you'll understand what I mean.

[setarip_old]

Hi!After hours and hours of translating a movie, and after big efforts, someone simply downloads the subtitles, opens it with Notepad, changes the name of the translator to his name, then publishes it as his own work.Of course, the only way someone can download the subtitles you've created is if you upload them and make them available.

So it seems that you're more than willing to share your subtitles with anyone on the Internet - and your ego is hurt if or when someone else takes credit for creating the subtitles.

I would ask you if you really think most people downloading subtitles for use with their movie backups actually bother to notice or care who created them? I'd suggest that just the opposite is true.

If you find the behavior you've described to be that disconcerting, I'd suggest that you simply not upload your subtitles - or perhaps, set up a posting notification and email arrangement...

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

i don't think there is a way to protect the srt file, but i once see somethink near what you can call a protected srt file.

there a french team who made some translation/fansub for the us tv show, there made a lot of money with the publicity and you need to be register to download their .srt file, they also claim you shouldn't share the downloaded .srt file to avoid another siteweb share their .srt file and this will result in a lost of money for this team (whose work is based on the us srt file of american team of course).

so the solution they have found is the following :
they change a little the .srt file each time you download it in order to store/hide the user id who have share their work and to banish him.

in fach they made some minor change on the time ms, and add some space at the end of the line or some double space to made a hash key to find the user id.
They just have to track on the other subtitle sharing file the culpurit to banish him.

in my opinion not a lot of morality but it seems effective.

[The Professor]

So it seems that you're more than willing to share your subtitles with anyone on the Internet - and your ego is hurt if or when someone else takes credit for creating the subtitles.



Hello,

First off, thank you all for your replies.

Dear setarip_old, it's not about my ego, it's about my simple right. For example, imagine if someone took a freeware, and changed a bit in it and claimed that it's his own work, what would that be? I'm talking about the same idea, I wan't everybody to enjoy my subtitles, but I don't want my simple right to be taken, which is a credit for my work.


I would ask you if you really think most people downloading subtitles for use with their movie backups actually bother to notice or care who created them? I'd suggest that just the opposite is true.

Yes, they do bother to notice who created them :). As people want more of this person's subtitles, they recognize his work and always look for his up coming subtitles.

[Gornot]

Then the easiest way is to make people pay for them and legally persecute those who steal them. Of course, first you'll have to prove that you made that sub from scratch...
I see no other way.

[GrofLuigi]

You can not protect it absolutely - it's meant for viewing. Someone persistent enough will simply retype it.

GL

[unskinnyboy]

Sometimes I have seen people insert some text in the .srt file at periodic intervals, which can act as a watermark, but can be annoying to the viewers.

Example:

15
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,599
Shut up.

16
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:54,599
This subtitle made by 'The Professor'.

17
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,352
Open up and you won't get hurt.

srt per se is a pure editable format and a determined thief will get around it - he can just find and edit out all the watermark text and reorder the subtitle sequence numbers. But, if he is a lazy thief he probably won't notice and might just embarrass himself attempting to pass this off as his own.

You can make it tougher (but still not impossible) for the thief if you offer the subtitles in vobsub format. Do the above watermarking and then convert the srt to vobsub and make that available to your users. It's tougher to edit vobsubs because they are in BMP format. Again, if the thief is determined, he can convert the vobsubs to srt, edit it and then convert it back again.

[The Professor]

Hello,

OK... so let's say SRT is not the way to do it...
How about a new format? :p

Well, I know it can be done, but I don't know how, for example I've seen an encrypted format (if I'm not mistaken), like it's encrypted SRT or something, and VobSub was modified in order to decrypt it and thus support it, this is what I think, but I'm not sure...

So anyways, if somebody can do it, or guide me to do it, that'd be great, and by the way, I forgot to mention another reason for all this, not only to save my right and credit, but also to keep it off trading and selling, because there are people who download movies off the Internet and sell them with subtitles, and believe me I'm pretty sure of that, because personally I was asked to sell my subtitles by somebody who trades with movies. Of course, I said no, and by that, I don't want anybody to use them for sale, and I know a lot of translators like myself who just do it for fun, and don't want their subtitles to be stolen.

The main idea (like I said before) is:

1) It can't be edited (or even viewed, like in Notepad).
2) Font and size can be changed (in VobSub?).
3) It can be hard-coded into a movie (if VobSub supports it, then we're half way there).
4) IF POSSIBLE, can be synchronized, split and joined.

The bottom line is, can somebody do that, or does anybody want to do that, or can anybody guide me to do that?

Any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance.

PS: If what I'm asking for is causing inconvenience whatsoever, then I'm very sorry.

[chipzoller]

What you're asking for is essentially a new file type, something that would have to be designed and implemented from the ground up. This likely isn't going to be something anyone will (or can) just give you instructions on accomplishing but will rather take lots of time working out.

It seems to me (even though this forum doesn't support fan-subbed videos) to be most efficient and safe at this stage (sans encrypted subtitle format) to continue to hard-sub your videos. It does sound like a good idea, especially for fan subbers like yourself.

[Pelican9]

Subtitles format that -

1) Can't be edited.
2) Allows you to change font (type and size...).
3) Can be synchronized, spilt and joined.
4) Can be hardcoded in order to watch on PC or DVD.


You have to live with this thing.
It's useless, and meanless what you want.
I don't think you can make perfect subtitles, so give a chance to the others to correct/improve your work and don't worry about some crazy people who 'steal' your work.

I know your feel, because I and my girlfriend translated a couple of movies and shared them, but never worried about our "rights". (What rights? It's illegal!)
I personally hate the subtitles with too much crediting info, scrolling, flashing name, email address at the beginning and at the end of the movie (during all of the end titles).

[setarip_old]

@Pelican9

Hi!What rights? It's illegal!"The Professor" makes it fairly clear that he/she is creating and making available subtitles only - not videos with the subtitles added. I'd be hardpressed to understand why you would think such activity would be illegal...

[Pelican9]

@Pelican9

Hi!What rights? It's illegal!"The Professor" makes it fairly clear that he/she is creating and making available subtitles only - not videos with the subtitles added. I'd be hardpressed to understand why you would think such activity would be illegal...

Sorry, my English is not enough to understand you.

[setarip_old]

@Pelican9Sorry, my English is not enough to understand you.Sorry to hear that - especially since your previous post (and others that I've read here) seemed to indicate a very good grasp of English.

What is your native tongue?

Perhaps someone can translate my post for you...

[manusse]

I'd be hardpressed to understand why you would think such activity would be illegal...
In some countries, it is not legal to make available translation of copyrighted work without the permission of the right's owner. Even if you translate subs for free. Recently a French fansubbers'site had to close down because of this (calorifix). They reopened one week later but they don't host sub translations anymore.

Cheers
Manusse

[setarip_old]

@manusse

Hi!

Are you referring to simply creating and distributing ONLY subtitles, or creating subtitles and merging them with and distributing them with the movie?

[DigitalDeviant]

I've done quite a bit of research into the legality of translated subtitle scripts and here is what I know. I only have a few years of business law and no degree in it so I am not an expert so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Yes, it is illegal in most countries. The Berne Convention Article 8 states "Authors of literary and artistic works protected by this Convention shall enjoy the exclusive right of making and of authorizing the translation of their works throughout the term of protection of their rights in the original works."

This means unless the Author or rightful copyright holder authorized you to translate it then it is illegal.

2. However, if you do translate it it is your own copyright work regardless of the legality under which you translated it. According to the Berne Convention Article 2 section 1, "Translations, adaptations, arrangements of music and other alterations of a literary or artistic work shall be protected as original works without prejudice to the copyright in the original work."

So legally you have some rights. Of course since you probably ignored the original copyright I see no reason for others to respect yours. I release my subtitles under a Creative Commons license so in the event that I see them reused with no credit given to me or the actual translator then I have some recourse, albeit a small one since all I can really do is contact webhosts and other harassments.

[Mtz]

Make the subtitles files as "read only". 1% will can not modify them.
I totally agree Pelican9. He is speaking like somebody which made this for sure. Rest of you are speaking witout any practice.

enjoy,
Mtz

[manusse]

I am not arguing for or against subtitles'distribution. There are specialized sites and this is their business. I also appreciate that I can find subtitles in French for some exotic DVD I've bought directly from Hong-Kong or other places.

However I just wanted to answer setarip_old that even if it's legal to translate subs and that the translator owns the rights of his translation, in most countries it seems it is illegal to distribute them without the permission of the movie's rights'owner. Even if you distribute the subtitles only (srt for example). That's all.

Cheers
Manusse