Encode HD-DVD to WMV for 360 playback?

[ACrowley]

NHLRaider

On All MS Xbox360 Cables is a Optical Output

And the Xbox360 outputs WMA Audio to DolbyDigital via SPDIF.
Ofcourse you can set it to WMA SPDIF when you have a Receiver with WMA Support

-------------------------------

EDIT:

Spring Update is there.
My first Look :

Pro :

-For now i tested a H264 1080p 8Mbps with AAC LC 2.0 and it works. Its a mp4 remuxed Nero AVC trailer.
-I cant play My own Test encodes with MainConcept 720p /23.976fps/ High Profile 4.1 Level / 6Mbps Vbr 9Mbps Peak

-To bad its restricted to 4.1 Level and only Stereo AAC LC
-Divx/Xvid remuxed in mp4 with AAC isnt working!

-Nice : Now you can set more AR Options. So i can zoom to FullScreen on 2.35:1 Content.
-Also theres a new Option to change the Language, so you can use more AudioTracks.

Currently i made Test encodes with WVC1 1080p
I cant find anything about a Decoder Update in the Feature Lists ??!

-WVC1 1080p 12Mbps VBR /19Mbps Peak isnt possible! Its choppy like Hell.
-WVC1 1080p 10Mbps VBR /15Mbps Peak inst possible too !! Its choppy
-WVC1 1080p 17Mbps CBR : smooth !

For the First Look theres no updated WMV AMP AP Decoder! Still not possible to use high Peak Bitrates

[Clown shoes]

Crowley, are you streaming or playing off discs?

[bluesk1d]

NHLRaider

On All MS Xbox360 Cables is a Optical Output

And the Xbox360 outputs WMA Audio to DolbyDigital via SPDIF.
Ofcourse you can set it to WMA SPDIF when you have a Receiver with WMA Support

-------------------------------

EDIT:

Spring Update is there.
My first Look :

Pro :

-For now i tested a H264 1080p 8Mbps with AAC LC 2.0 and it works. Its a mp4 remuxed Nero AVC trailer.
-I cant play My own Test encodes with MainConcept 720p /23.976fps/ High Profile 4.1 Level / 6Mbps Vbr 9Mbps Peak

-To bad its restricted to 4.1 Level and only Stereo AAC LC
-Divx/Xvid remuxed in mp4 with AAC isnt working!

-Nice : Now you can set more AR Options. So i can zoom to FullScreen on 2.35:1 Content.
-Also theres a new Option to change the Language, so you can use more AudioTracks.

Currently i made Test encodes with WVC1 1080p
I cant find anything about a Decoder Update in the Feature Lists ??!

-WVC1 1080p 12Mbps VBR /19Mbps Peak isnt possible! Its choppy like Hell.
-WVC1 1080p 10Mbps VBR /15Mbps Peak inst possible too !! Its choppy
-WVC1 1080p 17Mbps CBR : smooth !

For the First Look theres no updated WMV AMP AP Decoder! Still not possible to use high Peak Bitrates

How are you getting the files to the 360? I have found that VBR does not work all that well when you stream via the wireless adapter (haven't tried straight ethernet but it should be better). Have you tried burning them to disc or, better yet, putting one of your high peak VBR test files on a USB 2 thumb drive and plugging that into the 360?

[bluesk1d]

Crowley, are you streaming or playing off discs?

Haha nice. Same question posted at the same time.

[Clown shoes]

lol. Great minds think alike :)

[twan69666]

Hey ACrowley, yes there is a new vc1 encoder. I have a rip of Mission Impossible 3, and it plays fine. A little studdering in the beginning, but it seems to play ok. I only watched 10 minutes of it, but it was great.

Before, it would only play 30 sec or so, and then freeze. I did the typical rip->wmv coversion without reencoding. I havent tried any h264 vidoes yet but glad to hear they're working.

I also have a few xvid encodes that are showing up, but wont play. Kinda surprising they're showing up!

[ACrowley]

Haha nice. Same question posted at the same time.

I play them from DVD on Dashboard

But via WMP11 Stream the Decoder cant handle high VBR Peak too.
The MediaCenter Decoder is another Thing and has nothing to do with the Dashboard Player Updates

I made more Test @1080p with 2pass VBR Peak and High Peaks over 14-15 Mbps are still not working !

But CBR Mode works with 18Mbs and more

So, sadly i cant see any improvements ?! VBR Peak is clearly the Target for me.

Also ,i cant find any Facts about a updated Decoder ? Nothing....in no changelog/Feature List
Maybe it was only a Rumor ?

But ofcourse the new AR options and the possibility to change teh Audo Track is very nice
The H264 Decoder ...imho useless with max 10Mbps and 2.0 AAC LC, when you ask me

[twan69666]

Hey Crowley,

Mine is a 18mbps VBR and it plays (at least what I watched of it). Its a vc1 straight from the HDDVD. I streamed mine via lan from my cpu

[ACrowley]

Hey Crowley,

Mine is a 18mbps VBR and it plays (at least what I watched of it). Its a vc1 straight from the HDDVD. I streamed mine via lan from my cpu


You cant mux HDDVD VC1 into wmv ?! So you cant play VC1 in the DashboardPlayer . Not in Evo ,not in mkv

[zambelli]

I play them from DVD on Dashboard

But via WMP11 Stream the Decoder cant handle high VBR Peak too.
The MediaCenter Decoder is another Thing and has nothing to do with the Dashboard Player Updates
Yeah, it's been my understanding that the VC-1 decoder update would be for Dashboard only.

[Clown shoes]

You cant mux HDDVD VC1 into wmv ?! So you cant play VC1 in the DashboardPlayer . Not in Evo ,not in mkv

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.

[twan69666]

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.


Yep thats exactly what I did. Used haali's to mkv, extracted video, then used solevig's to asf. From there I used wmstream editor. Plays great. I cant remember my exact process because I did it a month ago and have been waiting for the update.

[zambelli]

Yep,
32-bit CMD, with runas Administrator. I can't get 2-pass to work.
I finally had some time to look into this. I couldn't repro this issue on my Vista x64 machine. Here's what I had installed:

WME9 x86 version
QFE KB929182 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/929182) for WME9 on Vista
My latest WMCmd.vbs (http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/#WMCmd)

I ran wmcmd.vbs under a 32-bit cmd.exe window (\Windows\SysWOW64\cmd.exe) in v_mode 3 and the encode completed without a problem. I verified using both .avi and .avs sources.

Make sure you don't have Ffdshow or some other codec set to intercept raw video and audio - in case that's inserting itself into the source decoding process.

[bluesk1d]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

[ACrowley]

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.


ah ok..youre right

However....i cant see any real Decoder improvements after the update

WVC1 2pass VBR Peak will not play smooth with high Bitrates.

CBR and high Bitrates works

I dont care..i always encode in x264 for my private purposes

[NHRaider]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

Have you created a graph file for the audio and then from WMP run an AVS file with both audio and video and see if there is the synch issue. If the audio isn't out of synch then I would conclude that it isn't the Demuxed file.

[ACrowley]

Yes, sometimes the encoded wma is async around 1000ms

I have it to sometimes on WVC1/WMA HDDVD encodes

But its no Problem. Just use Delacut tool on the Source wave and set the delay.

[homerpez]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

Same here.. happened to me with Superman (the 1970's one) :p

Just so gurus understand, it's a PROGRESSIVE sync problem, not a delay... as in, it gets more and more out of sync as the movie is played... in my case it's up to several seconds!

One solution offered was to note the "counted" vs. the "calculated" frames in EVO Demux (allowing the entire file to be read, not just the first 300MB). The story is, if you find the two frame values different, you have to "timestretch" in something like BeHappy to get "counted" closer to "calculated".

In my case:

"Calculated" frames = 217843

"Counted" frames= 217937

This means although the timecodes for the audio and video are the same, somehow an extra few seconds are added to the audio... somehow. ???

So the ratio used in "Timestretch -> Frame based" would be something like 21.7843 -> 21.7931 (remember, it's a ratio, not actual framerate). The theory is once the audio is squeezed back to the size of your video, the movie should be in sync (or you only should have to worry about a simple delay at that point).

I've done this but I don't yet know the results. I'm also just encoding for the PC using H264 and ac3, I'd love to make fully XBOX and Media Center compliant WMV HD files, with 5.1 audio, but I can't find a single guide for it which 10 people afterwards say "it doesn't work". :p But when there is one, I'd love to do it.

Just one "Sticky" step-by-step guide for all-purpose "HD-DVD to WMV HD with 5.1 Guide, here's how"... that would be nice. :cool:

[bluesk1d]

Yes, sometimes the encoded wma is async around 1000ms

I have it to sometimes on WVC1/WMA HDDVD encodes

But its no Problem. Just use Delacut tool on the Source wave and set the delay.

Thanks I will try that for the delay. Do you use it on the 5.1 channel wav from eac3to or on all 6 mono wavs?

Also, can anyone make sense of this? Why are my encodes always smaller than expected using CBR? It shows the expected bitrate but the actual average bitrate is much lower, resulting in a smaller file. Argh!

cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\WMCmd.vbs" -input "C:\dvd-temp\Encode staging\Staging\THE_DEPARTED_HDDVD\departed.avs" -output "C:\dvd-temp\Encode staging\Staging\THE_DEPARTED_HDDVD\departed-evo.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 6614153 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100
Microsoft (R) Windows Script Host Version 5.6
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1996-2001. All rights reserved.

Microsoft (R) Windows Media Encoder Command Line Script Utility
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Warning: Encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in.
Trying alternate method now............................
Source duration retrieved: 9079.043 seconds.

Encoded: 9079s (100%) Elapsed: 10:06:12 Left: 00:00:00 [0.25x]

======== Encoding Completed ========

Video :
Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Expected bit rate: 6614153 bps
Average bit rate: 5259617 bps
Expected fps: 23.976
Dropped frame count: 0
Total coded frames: 217679
Average sample rate: 23.952
Dropped bytes: 0 bytes
Total bytes: 5969012828 bytes

Overall:
Encoding time: 36402 seconds
Average bit rate: 5259617 bps
File size: 5997395900 bytes
File duration: 9079.034 seconds

[zambelli]

Just so gurus understand, it's a PROGRESSIVE sync problem, not a delay... as in, it gets more and more out of sync as the movie is played... in my case it's up to several seconds!
I think this could be an issue in the DD+ decoding phase or the EVO parsing phase. If you feed the WM encoder uncompressed video and uncompressed audio as sources - this will never happen, so I'm quite sure this is not an encoding issue. I have done many WMV9 encodes over the years - and I've never run into AV sync issues unless they were already present in the source.

Also, can anyone make sense of this? Why are my encodes always smaller than expected using CBR? It shows the expected bitrate but the actual average bitrate is much lower, resulting in a smaller file. Argh!
How is the quality of the resulting encode? The WMV9 codec doesn't pad bits so sometimes the bitrate will turn out smaller than the target if the video was not complex enough to require such a high bitrate. Are you using the WMP11 version of the codec (not the beta)? Some people have reported this before but I haven't been able to repro the issue yet.

[bluesk1d]

I think this could be an issue in the DD+ decoding phase or the EVO parsing phase. If you feed the WM encoder uncompressed video and uncompressed audio as sources - this will never happen, so I'm quite sure this is not an encoding issue. I have done many WMV9 encodes over the years - and I've never run into AV sync issues unless they were already present in the source.

I found mention in another thread about the culprit here not actually being the audio. It seems it is Sonic Video Decoder 4.2 that causes this and they are not sure why. It would appear it is an improper handling of the 23.976 frame rate but does not affect all movies. In the few tests I've done, that seems correct. If I use Haali Media Splitter to create a graph with the ripped EVO and use WMV DMO decoder, it seems to work just fine.


How is the quality of the resulting encode? The WMV9 codec doesn't pad bits so sometimes the bitrate will turn out smaller than the target if the video was not complex enough to require such a high bitrate. Are you using the WMP11 version of the codec (not the beta)? Some people have reported this before but I haven't been able to repro the issue yet.


The quality seems to be OK but Im sure it could have use some more file size. Heck look at the one on the HD DVD disc. That is an excellent question about which codec I am using... I am not sure. I had the beta before I installed WMP 11 (I think that was the order). How can I tell? Have people reported this problem with the WMP 11 version or the beta version available on MS.com? I can always uninstall the beta since it does appear in add/remove programs.

P.S.
I will be up in your neck of the woods, B-Town, Washington this Thurs to visit my sister and go to a wedding on Monday. Great city! Im from Seattle originally.

[zambelli]

That is an excellent question about which codec I am using... I am not sure. I had the beta before I installed WMP 11 (I think that was the order). How can I tell? Have people reported this problem with the WMP 11 version or the beta version available on MS.com? I can always uninstall the beta since it does appear in add/remove programs.
Launch WMV PowerToy and look at the About tab. It will list the registered WMV9 encoders. wmvencod.dll would indicate v11 final. wvc1dmoe.dll would indicate beta.

[homerpez]

I found mention in another thread about the culprit here not actually being the audio. It seems it is Sonic Video Decoder 4.2 that causes this and they are not sure why. It would appear it is an improper handling of the 23.976 frame rate but does not affect all movies. In the few tests I've done, that seems correct. If I use Haali Media Splitter to create a graph with the ripped EVO and use WMV DMO decoder, it seems to work just fine.

Hmm... this is interesting...

So Instead of:

file(async) "movie.vc1" -> Sonic HD Demux -> Sonic Video 4.2

I would instead use:

file(async) "movie1.evo" -> Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow?

I had one sucess, and I think this may have been what I used... if so, thanks for the reminder. :thanks: I know since then, I tried using two demuxed streams, since I saw others doing so and thought it was the way to go...

I think Haali chokes on the .vc1 stream by itself... but the .evo might be something else... hmm... it'd be something if this solved everything.

I will have to try this again...

[bluesk1d]

Hmm... this is interesting...

So Instead of:

file(async) "movie.vc1" -> Sonic HD Demux -> Sonic Video 4.2

I would instead use:

file(async) "movie1.evo" -> Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow?

I had one sucess, and I think this may have been what I used... if so, thanks for the reminder. :thanks: I know since then, I tried using two demuxed streams, since I saw others doing so and thought it was the way to go...

I think Haali chokes on the .vc1 stream by itself... but the .evo might be something else... hmm... it'd be something if this solved everything.

I will have to try this again...

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

[dbling]

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

WooHoo! My first post. That was a long 5 days. My question is after encoding waterworld hd-dvd to wmvhd, the audio is almost spot on in 98% of the movie and when its off, its very minimal, so I thought I would try this method. When doing it this way, using an evo through Haali and then through WMV DMO, there is no progress report, just tons of dots slowly filling the window.

Is there a way to, or are you getting, an accurate encoding report (frames done, percent done, encoding rate, etc) and if so, how? THanks

-D

[bluesk1d]

WooHoo! My first post. That was a long 5 days. My question is after encoding waterworld hd-dvd to wmvhd, the audio is almost spot on in 98% of the movie and when its off, its very minimal, so I thought I would try this method. When doing it this way, using an evo through Haali and then through WMV DMO, there is no progress report, just tons of dots slowly filling the window.

Is there a way to, or are you getting, an accurate encoding report (frames done, percent done, encoding rate, etc) and if so, how? THanks

-D

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.

[dbling]

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.

Thanks for the info. That worked splendidly. Source duration/time left/etc is now showing up fine. One other quick question. After encoding and playing back, it seems that the chapter skip function goes ahead by 30 seconds. I noticed that this was the same as the key frame distribution in the script setup command line that i was using. But, when I change it to say, 180, it still only skips 30 seconds at a time. I have also edited the markers after the file is completely done to no avail. Is there a way to make chapter markers at every 5 minutes or so rather than 30 seconds. Ive seen it done with other encodes floating around, but inspecting those files yielded no good results. Thanks for your help.

-D

[homerpez]

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

Hmm... well... I did use filesource -> Haali Splitter -> ffdshow, and what do you know, it worked PERFECTLY. PERFECTLY! :)

This was on "Bourne Supremacy"... it was a combined .evo ("rebuild" in EVO Demux), and I was even able to use the "1001ms" delay reading found in the info window to resync it on muxing.

This is the "Holy Grail" for me and backing up my discs, seriously. Thanks for the pointer!

[zambelli]

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.
It "just" changes the colorspace? :confused: Converting back and forth between RGB and YUV is not lossless. If you output RGB to the encoder, the encoder needs to convert the RGB back to YUV *again* because internally all MPEG/VC-1 codecs work in YUV 4:2:0 colorspace. So you've successfully introduced an unnecessary lossy conversion into the process.

If you're not getting the encoding duration/progress when the Avisynth script is returning YV12, it's likely because you don't have a codec installed to handle raw YV12 interpreting. Try playing a YV12 Avisynth script in WMP or GraphEdit. Does it play? I'm betting not.

To solve the issue just set Ffdshow VfW decoder to handle "Raw video" = YV12 in the codecs list.

[zambelli]

Thanks for the info. That worked splendidly. Source duration/time left/etc is now showing up fine. One other quick question. After encoding and playing back, it seems that the chapter skip function goes ahead by 30 seconds. I noticed that this was the same as the key frame distribution in the script setup command line that i was using. But, when I change it to say, 180, it still only skips 30 seconds at a time. I have also edited the markers after the file is completely done to no avail. Is there a way to make chapter markers at every 5 minutes or so rather than 30 seconds. Ive seen it done with other encodes floating around, but inspecting those files yielded no good results. Thanks for your help.
Chapter marks and key frames aren't the same thing. Key frames, also known as "I frames", are frames that are encoded independently of all the surrounding frames. This is known as "intraframe" encoding.

I frames are typically inserted at scene changes, so sometimes even if you set the maximum key frame distance to i.e. 180 seconds, it's unlikely the video will go that long without a scene change - and consequently an I frame.

If you really want to insert chapter marks into the WMV file, you can use the WM File Editor to do that. The chapter marks (known as "file markers") will then show up in WMP under the View menu.

[bluesk1d]

It "just" changes the colorspace? :confused: Converting back and forth between RGB and YUV is not lossless. If you output RGB to the encoder, the encoder needs to convert the RGB back to YUV *again* because internally all MPEG/VC-1 codecs work in YUV 4:2:0 colorspace. So you've successfully introduced an unnecessary lossy conversion into the process.

If you're not getting the encoding duration/progress when the Avisynth script is returning YV12, it's likely because you don't have a codec installed to handle raw YV12 interpreting. Try playing a YV12 Avisynth script in WMP or GraphEdit. Does it play? I'm betting not.

To solve the issue just set Ffdshow VfW decoder to handle "Raw video" = YV12 in the codecs list.

I didnt claim it was lossless which is why I said it is best practice to do the least amount of processing but I have not been able to detect any degradation (and I looked pretty closely). If I could make it work without doing that I'd love to though. YV12 inputs do play on my system so I'm not sure what the deal is. In your suggestion, how does changing that ffdshow setting help when ffdshow is not involved? Also, where exactly is that change made? I am not in front of my home computer right now so I cant poke around to see what you mean.

[dbling]

I didnt claim it was lossless which is why I said it is best practice to do the least amount of processing but I have not been able to detect any degradation (and I looked pretty closely). If I could make it work without doing that I'd love to though. YV12 inputs do play on my system so I'm not sure what the deal is. In your suggestion, how does changing that ffdshow setting help when ffdshow is not involved? Also, where exactly is that change made? I am not in front of my home computer right now so I cant poke around to see what you mean.

Somehow it does. I had ffdshow installed upon the recommendation but thought I would uninstall and re-install to see if it made a difference. Upon reinstalling i selected for it to decode the raw video and then took the convert line out of my avs file and started an encode. Took a few seconds and then the progress showed up. I guess my old version of ffd wasnt getting the job done, but the newer one I installed does.

It will give you a list of video formats to decode when you are installing it. I believe there is a menu to change settings once it is installed as well. The newer version i installed was named ffdshow_rev457_20061027_clsid

[bluesk1d]

Is it in the start menu config options for ffdshow to avoid having to re-install? Itll be cool to be able to simplify the process. The multi-conversions always bugged me. You can always count on Zam for tips.

[dbling]

Is it in the start menu config options for ffdshow to avoid having to re-install? Itll be cool to be able to simplify the process. The multi-conversions always bugged me. You can always count on Zam for tips.

I think it depends on the version. I initially had a fairly old version that I couldnt find a way to change the settings for it, even upon re-install. Then I installed the version name of the one i posted earlier and immediately it was offering more choices for decoding.

[bluesk1d]

Does yours open like 5 instances of Haali in the sys tray when you start your encode like mine does? Doesnt seem to hinder anything but I was like "What the...?"

[zambelli]

1. You can change ffdshow options after you install it. Look into your ffdshow start menu folder.

2. You only need to set the VfW decoder raw video codec option to YV12. This will ensure Ffdshow gets used for YV12 decoding only if it absolutely has to.

3. There are more recent ffdshow versions than 2006. Visit http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net.

[dbling]

Does yours open like 5 instances of Haali in the sys tray when you start your encode like mine does? Doesnt seem to hinder anything but I was like "What the...?"

Mine typically opens 3 or 4, but i think its because they are trying/or are, initializing because if i move my mouse over some of them, all but one disappear. Ive Been trying a 2 pass CBR encode. I wonder what the difference between it and 1 pass will be. Checking a small clip of it, it looks about the same. I hope this (your) method fixes the very tiny delay in audio that was produced from the sonic decoder method.

[zambelli]

2-pass CBR simply has better rate control. 1-pass CBR can only look ahead as far as the buffer - and even then it can run into trouble and lower quality or drop frames.

Unless CBR is absolutely necessary, I would recommend 2-pass peak constrained VBR mode for Xbox encodes. The new dash update should allow smooth playback of HD-DVD range bitrates (up to 30 Mbps), so with a reasonably sized buffer - 2-pass VBR should be OK.

[sonicbox]

zambelli, I'm getting poor Xbox 360 playback on some of my WMV9 encodes. (Stutters, audio dropout, etc.) I never exceed 10 second buffers -- I generally stick to the default of 5. This is with, for example.... 5000 average, 7000 Kbps peak 2-pass VBR... 24 or 30 fps 720p content.

If I stick to CBR (and even higher bitates!), all seems to be fine. I'm a bit confused.

Is there a specific "Advanced Setting" that may crush the performance of the updated Xbox 360 WMV decoder with VBR content? Should I attempt to increase or decrease the buffers?

Anyway, I need to do some more testing in different scenarios when I have time.

[veffremov]

Yes, there is an "Advanced Setting" that crushes performance. Don't select "Complex Profile"

[zambelli]

Enabling Loopfilter might impose a slight decoding peformance overhead, but it's typically not more than 5%.

Can you share your encoding settings with us?

[dbling]

Is it possible at this stage in the game to add a track for subtitles that can be turned on or off and not just permanently on or permanently off? I see that EvoDemux can rip the subtitle track but ive not seen any mention of re-including it back into the final wmv stream. :thanks:

[DMagic1]

When encoding WMV HD for use on 360 whats the best frame rate. I've been using 23.98 but is it better to use 25?

Whats the benefit to either?

[zambelli]

When encoding WMV HD for use on 360 whats the best frame rate. I've been using 23.98 but is it better to use 25? Whats the benefit to either?
Whatever the source was shot on. You can't just arbitrarily encode at any framerate. Unless you're doing standards conversion for whatever reason, you should always match the framerate of your source when encoding.

[DMagic1]

Thanks

[Prophecy650]

how the F*CK do you use graph edit. I am very new to this and looked online but can't figure it out. I have a .evo file to test out. Can someone help me out.

[bluesk1d]

Launch WMV PowerToy and look at the About tab. It will list the registered WMV9 encoders. wmvencod.dll would indicate v11 final. wvc1dmoe.dll would indicate beta.

wmvencod.dll is the only one present on my system. This is getting pretty annoying as I am trying to max out DVD9 discs with my encodes to get the most out of the available space. The latest was The Italian Job... Expected and average bit rates are WAY different. File size is off by like 2GB. Gah!

cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\WMCmd.vbs" -input "C:\input.avs" -output "C:\output.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 9378984 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100

Source duration retrieved: 6632.094 seconds.

Encoded: 6632s (100%) Elapsed: 08:42:50 Left: 00:00:00 [0.21x]

======== Encoding Completed ========

Video :
Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Expected bit rate: 9378984 bps
Average bit rate: 7644828 bps
Expected fps: 23.976
Dropped frame count: 0
Total coded frames: 159011
Average sample rate: 23.952
Dropped bytes: 0 bytes
Total bytes: 6337616750 bytes

Overall:
Encoding time: 31383 seconds
Average bit rate: 7644828 bps
File size: 6366309218 bytes
File duration: 6632.086 seconds

Anyone have any ideas?

[dbling]

wmvencod.dll is the only one present on my system. This is getting pretty annoying as I am trying to max out DVD9 discs with my encodes to get the most out of the available space. The latest was The Italian Job... Expected and average bit rates are WAY different. File size is off by like 2GB. Gah!



Anyone have any ideas?

I have one. It MIGHT be the same issue i was having with happy feet. The entire movie was only like 10 gigs at 1080p. When i reconverted to 720p, it was only using about 5.2 gigs but the encoder was spitting out the same kind of info that yours is and I was expecting a CBR bitrate of ~9500 but it was ending with around 7.3. I encoded it several times before realizing this. The movie wasnt long enough/big enough to output the size i wanted with my settings. So you might want to check that the video stream is big enough to maintain the bitrate that you want it to. Just an idea.

-D

[NHRaider]

how the F*CK do you use graph edit. I am very new to this and looked online but can't figure it out. I have a .evo file to test out. Can someone help me out.

Search is your friend...http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123010

Oliver created a great guide to help you out. This was the first thread I read and now I'm addicted to this crap....that bastid...

[bluesk1d]

I have one. It MIGHT be the same issue i was having with happy feet. The entire movie was only like 10 gigs at 1080p. When i reconverted to 720p, it was only using about 5.2 gigs but the encoder was spitting out the same kind of info that yours is and I was expecting a CBR bitrate of ~9500 but it was ending with around 7.3. I encoded it several times before realizing this. The movie wasnt long enough/big enough to output the size i wanted with my settings. So you might want to check that the video stream is big enough to maintain the bitrate that you want it to. Just an idea.

-D

Thanks for the suggestion here. I am pretty sure the encoder has no idea what the source file size is/was. It just receives raw video frames from AviSynth and should encode it at the bit rate you tell it to. Something is acting funky here. I might just start a new thread on it.