subtitlecreator, muxman and aspect ratios. subs displayed at wrong position

[derebo]

subtitlecreator, muxman and aspect ratios. Big problem: subs displayed at wrong position

Hello all,

I have a serious problem concerning subtitle positioning, subtitle creator and muxman.

I want to hide hardcoded subtitles in a video file which is 16:9 PS (as muxman reports when loading the videofile, that is 16:9 pan&scan) by covering them.

In the past I could do it, no problem about it. A video file might would 4:3 or 16:9, and I could easily hide them.

Now the video file is 16:9 PS as muxman shows.

I create the subs in subtitlecreator. I make a capture (snapshot) with the nero dvd player. capture size is 720*576 so that I get a real capture based on standard pal dvd format. I load the background image as 1:1 anamorphic (is there a real diffence with 1:1 letterbox?), hide the hardcoded subs by covering them, create .sup, do the muxing (muxman video "both" subtitle "no ps, no lb, no ws") and watch it on the PC dvd player. no problem, it works great. i switch 4:3 and 16:9 modes in the computer dvd palyer and I can check how hardcoded subtitles are properly "hidden". However, I burn the dvd, play it in the standalone dvd player with a 4:3 TV at the living room and... problem!!! Somehow subtitles are not at the same position as when displayed at the computer! They appear a little bit below thane expected, so there's about 1 hardcoded subtile line showing. It looks very ugly. Same happens when i play it in a 16:9 LCD TV. So why is this happening? It never happened before! Does it have to do with aspect ratios being different in a computer and a 4:3 or 16:9 TV? Might that be a bug in subtitlecreator or muxman? Might I be bugged???...

This is how it looks in the computer dvd player 16:9, hardcoded subs are propery hidden (H stand for hardcoded subtitles; S stands for overlayed subtitles):

******************************
* *
* *
* *
* *
* SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS *
* SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS *
* *
******************************

This is how it looks in the computer dvd player 4:3, hardcoded subs are propery hidden:

********************
* *
* *
* *
* *
* SSSSSSSSSS *
* SSSSSSSSSS *
* *
********************

And now... surprise! This is how it looks in the 16:9 LCD TV, hardcoded subs are shown! subtitles are shown a little bit below!:

******************************
* *
* *
* *
* *
* HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *
* SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS *
* SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS *
******************************


I have been thinking about all the different combinations to try till I reach the right choice, fingers' crossed:

In subtitlecreator a background picture format can be 1:1, 4:3, 16:9
Each background picture format can be anamorphic, letterbox
This makes 6 combinations in subtitlecreator

Now, when muxing in muxman we have:
Each of the 6 previous combinations in subtitle creator produce a .sup file.
Each .sup file can have the following combinations in muxman:
Each of those 6 .sup can have the video file as PS, LB, both
Each video file as PS, LB, both can have the subtitles as PS, LB, WD, PS LB, PS WD, LB WD

So overall there are 108 different combinations to try! that is just too crazy...

Can anyone please help find the right combination?... I think it all has to do with choosing the righg buttons in subtitle creator and muxman but... which ones?... I hate pan&scan...

PGCEDIT has a menu for streams (Domain Stream Attributes) which shows:
Also note that if you select 16:9, you must select at least one of Automatic P&S or Automatic Letterbox.
Maybe the solution is there too. I'm just too puzzled.

BIG THANKS in advance...

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Without trying to figure out WHY your subtitles are not properly aligned, I'll simply advise you to use DVD SubEdit to easily move them up as needed...

(Make certain to move them up by an EVEN number of lines)

[derebo]

setarip_old, thanks for your reply.
i actually tried it with dvdsubedit. curiously enough, subs were properly aligned in dvdsubedit but when played in the standalone dvd player they were displayed below than expected. i can try it again, though. i have been working with subs long but never faced this situation. i understand it must be due to 16:9 PS but can't find a way around nor i have been able to find a guide showing how to overcome such situation. but i'm not saying it's anyone's blame! i'm just lost. i guess i'll have to keep on trying.

regards,

ps. by the way, by an even number of lines you mean that the top line where the sub is displayed must be even?

[manusse]

Have a look at this thread, because I think it may be related to your problem:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110830

Hope this helps
Manusse

[Paddington]

Hi Derebo,

Yeah, it's a well known problem to me, but unfortunately, I don't know the answer either. But I doubt whether it's related to any of the tools, e.g. if I open an original DVD with WinDVD or PowerDVD, the location of the original subtitles is normally higher (I think) in WindDVD, but at least they are not the same. Also, I have three stand-alone players (SAP), and they also exhibit different behaviors in this respect. For example, one might show it in the black area, whereas another might put it partly on the movie. It is also influenced by the settings of your SAP, in that if I set the output to a 16:9 or 4:3 TV, the result is different yet again.
As an ugly solution, you could just add a couple of sups on different vertical positions...