Scenarist 4.1 avc/vc1 assets

[Sagittaire]

Yes, it is a specification....
May be VC1 need 2500 for 352x240 ;) ?
A movie of 2 hours need a HD DVD of 30Go...

When the first HD DVD in H264 on DVD disc in Europe ?

Golgot13

No I think that it's the max bitrate specification (aka vbv).

[RBF]

vsv
Why Level-auto instead of 4.1?
Encoder will automatically establish a level 4.1 in this profile, outgoing from delay, hss and cpb.

In advanced settings you have used AVC preset Blue-Ray
instead of HD-DVD
Do not worry about it. It only a title

and motion estimation search range-255 when for HD-DVD possible is max 511.
You can put manually 511.

[Chefkoch_ico]

@RBF:
Thx. Its working great.

Too bad, that I can´t use my Recordings from Premiere HD (German High def PayTV) directly. They are H264 with AC3.

Scenarist takes no 1088i resolution (my source files). But 1080i is OK.

I hope in future there will be a not so restrictive tool for HD-DVD like DVDlab is for DVDs. Cause I like the way: Record -> Demux/Cut -> Author -> Burn. All without reencoding like with normal DVB-S Streams.

Greetings

[vsv]

Need header stream patcher for h264 similar to DVDpatcher or HDPatch.
You can try manipulate with metadata use hex editor.

[Trahald]

welp... here is where i am.. the program parses a raw mpeg4 avc now (like what mpeg4ip does except without failing at the first picture) it will also recreate the same avc exactly (using the parsed info , not straight bit copying). although this is assuming it only has the data that mpeg4ip parses ( aud sps pps sei(00,01) ) and also the slice header info.. although i dont decode the picture itself (of course).. that is blind copied. the h.264.es.mpv is recreated perfectly with the parsed info. i then used a x264 avc i made and used the tool to put in a proper AUD and dummy HRD and sei values and write them in aud-sps-pps-sei-slice order. (i encoded my avc with the wrong level so i forced it from 51 to 41 ). the file is excepted now although it complains about gop being too big. so i need to make and find some example streams with proper gop structure but improper headers and see if my fixed version plays back ok once compiled
this is still early on and ultimately it may be better just to encode it right in the first place as (with the HRD-x264 version), as i stated.. the gop length has to be small ( .6 secs ). also forcing the level value may have unwanted concequences if it wasnt set correctly during the original decode. (hopefully it doesnt)

anyways.. will keep posted.

*ps*
the reason mpeg4ip and my tool only do the aud sps pps sei and slice is thats all thats in most streams. if i can find out info about the other types i may add it in but for now it doesnt seem needed. (the reference stream is accepted by the reference compiler). btw i dont write the sei 05 (it is freeform text, x264 uses it basically to write text of your command line )to the output stream as it doesnt seem needed. it is not in the reference stream

[shon3i]

I cannot extract image files to my hard drive :confused:
file corrupt ? or it's me (downloaded twice)

Edited: I was using wrong soft, :)
What you use, because i wont have luck, i tryed with WinRAR, WinISO, IsoBuster, Nero, Nero ImageDrive, Deamon Tools, and only IsoBuster and WinIso shows files, but say that can't be extracted?, i downloaded three times, first to without download manager, third time with GetRight

[Susana]

I used IsoBuster Pro 2.0

[shon3i]

I used IsoBuster Pro 2.0
I just tryed with isobuster 2 pro, and when i try to extract evo file, progress bar is just disappeared, and nothing happend. Any idea?

[Susana]

I don't know. Simple left button click and Extract.

[oberon]

Thanks for all the great info. I have a quick question though.
When I burn a quick sample to dvd I will play in powerdvd no problem but I will lock up the xbox360. But If I burn the departed iso It will play fine on the 360. Any sugestions

[Susana]

How to burn hddvd in a standard dvd:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

[shon3i]

I don't know. Simple left button click and Extract.
I don't know what is happend here, but this iso is damaged, i downloaded it again from another computer, and i can't open it, with any such iso tools. Isobuster only show contents, but unable to extract without any error, just progress bar show's, and automaticly disappear, without any progress. I tryed with many version form 1.6 to 2.0

Is there some alternative?

[oberon]

Burned both using that guide. But for some reason It craps out with my iso vs the departed iso. Maybe there is something I am missing when I set the options to build the hddvd iso

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

I have done a test encoding of my ******** HD recording with x264. Btw. converting the Original ts (h264) to HD-DVD compatible h264 and syncing with the DVD was a real pain in the ass.

Synced it with the DVD so I was getting the Dolby Track from the DVD.

Finally putted it all together in Scenarist and created an ISO.

Here it is (50MB, the first 50seconds in 1080, 25fps)
*** Removed the Link, if U wanna Test, PM me ***

Since its only the 20thCF and Lucas Intro i hope its not a problem this posting here.

Can somebody with PowerDVD or an Toshiba A2/E1 test this? Especially because its being said, that the A2/E1 don´t support 25fps ATM.

Greetings

[oberon]

@Chefkoch_ico I tested your iso in the xbox360 and powerdvd and it worked fine. Can you tell me exactly how you built the iso in Scenarist since my iso locks up my 360?

[Chefkoch_ico]

@Chefkoch_ico I tested your iso in the xbox360 and powerdvd and it worked fine. Can you tell me exactly how you built the iso in Scenarist since my iso locks up my 360?

Hi.

Thx for testing. Good to hear.

Here is the step by step:
- Create a project with the settings u need
- Go to data editor and Drag and Drop the AV files
- Go to Track Editor and Drag and Drop the Video from the Data Tab under Tracks, so a new track is created
- Click on the new Track
- On the Toolbar then click "add Audio", choose then the Lang for the Audio and Drag and Drop the Audio there
- Go to Scenario Editor
- There should be a VTS_1 and under it a Title_1 already
- Drag and Drop the before created Track to Title_1 so it appears afterwards under it
- under "File->Build" select "Mux Project", "Premaster Project", "Include Standard VTS" and Premaster to "Disc-Image"
- Then click "Start". In one of the Folders is afterwards the ISO File

I did my h264 file with x264, the one which is compatible with HD-DVD (look in the MPG4 AVC Subforum). AC3 is as I said from DVD.

Plz someone with a Toshiba E2, test it. If it works, I´ll buy one. Its a killer feature for me.

Greetings

[oberon]

I did just like what Chefkoch_ico said but still when I build the iso and burn then play the 360 just freezes

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

Then maybe its your assets problem. If you want, I can upload my 50secs AV Test Files (.264 and .ac3 files) and you can try it with them.

Greetings

[digitalvideo]

At this time hd-dvd non working with 25/50 fps !!! may be is it your problem.

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

No its not his problem, since my ISO is created with 25fps video.

It works in PowerDVD and xBox360.

The Toshiba E2 is in question. There were already 2 firmware updates for it. So maybe it already works. But we don´t know until somebody is testing it.

Greetings

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

Interesting, a user over on avsforums tested on a Toshiba E1 and the disc didn´t even load.
-------
This disc is not DVD format.
Cannot play the disc.
-------
He burned MPEG2 HD-DVDs with Ulead Movie factory before. So I think he knows, what he is doing. Burned it was with ImgBurn 2.1.

Also he stated, that with PowerDVD-HD 6.5 the image looks distorted. Oberon, which Version of PowerDVD did U test?

Maybe another explanation could be, that u should use the xBox compatibility flag on burning in Nero.

Or a 29,7 fps source could do the trick.

Greetings

[oberon]

I am using powerdvd 7.1. I used the same guide for burning a couple of posts up. But even if i just burn the iso in clone dvd your iso will play just fine.

Chefkoch_ico I was starting to think the same thing. If you could please post a sample of your source.

[DeathMonk]

K...

I am using mainconcept to encode some 720p [59.94] material that I shot using a panasonic varicam.

I exported a quicktime using the AJA Kona 10-bit uncompressed codec. This file makes mainconcept crash, so, I converted it to a super-high bitrate h.264 which mainconcept accepted.

After encoding this 3.5 minute clip using a couple different settings.. They import into scenarist 4.1 just fine, but when I multiplex and play the EVO's in powerDVD 6.5, they play choppy--like skipping around weird.

I went back and played the AVC file that mainconcept encoded in windows media player and that doesnt look completely right either.. not skipping around like the EVO but slower and seems like its missing frames.

Any ideas?

[chadamir]

K...

I am using mainconcept to encode some 720p [59.94] material that I shot using a panasonic varicam.

I exported a quicktime using the AJA Kona 10-bit uncompressed codec. This file makes mainconcept crash, so, I converted it to a super-high bitrate h.264 which mainconcept accepted.

After encoding this 3.5 minute clip using a couple different settings.. They import into scenarist 4.1 just fine, but when I multiplex and play the EVO's in powerDVD 6.5, they play choppy--like skipping around weird.

I went back and played the AVC file that mainconcept encoded in windows media player and that doesnt look completely right either.. not skipping around like the EVO but slower and seems like its missing frames.

Any ideas?

Was it filmed at that framerate? Did you try it in a hardware player?

[DeathMonk]

Recorded at that framerate...


It's weird.. Its doing the same thing as reauthored retail HD-DVD stuff.

[chadamir]

Recorded at that framerate...


It's weird.. Its doing the same thing as reauthored retail HD-DVD stuff.

I asked two questions and you answered one. My guess is that it's something with the player. Plus I ASSUME you are reauthoring those yourself in which case it suggests YOU are doing something wrong.

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

Interresting:
I have 2 h264 Files.

The first created with x264, the second one with Elecard Converter Studio beta.

Both files created from the same AVS with same resolution and Bitrate. Both load fine in Scenarist.

But when I play the files in PowerDVD HD 7.2, the x264 file plays very choppy and CPU-usage is 100%. The Elecard one plays fine with 70% CPU usage.

Far more interesting:
When I author the x264 file in Scenarist and afterwards play the authored content, its not choppy anymore and its behaving like the Elecard encoded file concerning CPU usage.

Greetings

[DeathMonk]

I asked two questions and you answered one. My guess is that it's something with the player. Plus I ASSUME you are reauthoring those yourself in which case it suggests YOU are doing something wrong.

well it's pretty damn obvious im doing something wrong..


I am using powerdvd 6.5.

[Sagittaire]

New trailer
http://dl-1.free.fr/52616e646f6d49569028a6c23700d1c2e82019811cfd32301740d43b92b7dfed/300_Trailer.iso

"300" Movie Trailer
Video H264 23.976 fps with pulldown 3:2 flag at 7 Mbps
Audio AC3 5.1 at 448 Kbps
Source with high grain level

Work on your Toshiba SAP's ... ???

[Nasgul]

Hi Sagittaire,

this is brilliant! Works like a charm in the Toshiba-A1, perfect and smooth playback!

How did you do it? Can you please post your cmdline and script used? What format was the input you used?

Regards,
Nas

[dssgorila]

New trailer
http://dl-1.free.fr/52616e646f6d49569028a6c23700d1c2e82019811cfd32301740d43b92b7dfed/300_Trailer.iso

"300" Movie Trailer
Video H264 23.976 fps with pulldown 3:2 flag at 7 Mbps
Audio AC3 5.1 at 448 Kbps
Source with high grain level

Work on your Toshiba SAP's ... ???

how about a tutorial/how to :)

also how do i burn this?

[chadamir]

He's using mainconcept which is a non-free encoder.

[Nasgul]

Hi,

I´ve downloaded the Mainconcept demo but still only get choppy results or bad clip length with 24fps vc-1 sources via avs...

Sagittaire, could you please post the settings you used with Mainconcept to feed it with a 23.976fps source and get a perfect authored HDDVD?

Would be greatly appreciated...


Has someone had any positive results with re-encoding 24fps vc-1 sources?

Nas

[lazyn00b]

Hi,

I´ve downloaded the Mainconcept demo but still only get choppy results or bad clip length with 24fps vc-1 sources via avs...

Sagittaire, could you please post the settings you used with Mainconcept to feed it with a 23.976fps source and get a perfect authored HDDVD?

Would be greatly appreciated...


Has someone had any positive results with re-encoding 24fps vc-1 sources?

Nas

Hello Nasgul, I've experienced exactly the same problem encoding film sources with Mainconcept 2.1 (demo version). Choppy playback (using PowerDVD Ultra) and clip length is wrong (too long).

Sagittaire, please enlighten us! :o

[Sagittaire]

Hi,

Sagittaire, could you please post the settings you used with Mainconcept to feed it with a 23.976fps source and get a perfect authored HDDVD?

Nas

Here little sample for test vbv limit with your Toshiba SAP's (I don't know the buffer limit and it's important for quality)
http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d49568469d876448eefd708831611e52dd2b8ca9afac463586b76/fantastic4silversurfer.rar

You can find the setting for HDDVD profil in the rar files with the sample.

Make feedback for the samples ... thx

[Nasgul]

Hi,

Here little sample for test vbv limit with your Toshiba SAP's (I don't know the buffer limit and it's important for quality)

Haven´t had much time today but I just did a quick burn of the three 1080p samples and put them in the Toshiba...
The first two (1100+1715) play fine. The third (3450) had a strange discoloration in the tunnel scene while playing for the first time, but I couldn´t reproduce it playing it again. It may have to do with the rewritable I used (was another brand), I have to check that again tomorrow/today. Apart from that the 3450 also played fine.

They all look fantastic btw!


You can find the setting for HDDVD profil in the rar files with the sample.


Thanks! Will try that tomorrow...
Scenarist doesn´t complain about the 23.97fps elementaries???
I´ve tried that before, but only got "Invalid framerate".
Also, when trying to set the pulldown 3:2 on 23.97fps source, my Mainconcept demo gives me an error saying the target fps has to be 29.97, 30, 59.94 or 60. The screens look different, too, I guess I have a different version...

Nas

[Nasgul]

Hi,

Sagittaire, I´ve just tried your 480p sample - works as well in the Toshiba (the picture is quite soft, though).

I also tried your HDDVD settings with an older Mainconcept demo I found (2.0.15) and it almost works now. At least it accepts the pulldown flags with the 23.976fps target and loads afterwards.

The playback in the Toshiba is ALMOST smooth, but I still have slight stuttering and the audio (tried a dd+ track) shuts down after about 4-5 seconds. Any ideas?


Sagittaire, could you do me a very big favour and try your script/settings/scenarist combination with a 24fps VC-1 source? Here´s a sample video (http://rapidshare.com/files/13083057/test1.vc1) and audio (http://rapidshare.com/files/13210982/test1.ddp). That would be great!

Nas

[Nasgul]

Another update...
I´ve just encoded a small 23.976fps progressive mpeg2 source with Sagittaires Settings and Mainconcept 2.0, which seems to work! Will try a bigger sample right now, unfortunately the demo is limited.

So the problem is most likely with the vc-1 source and/or avs-script.

[digitalvideo]

Hello Nasgul,

What tools are you using to encode your audio in dolby digital plus ?

Thx for the help

[Nasgul]

Hi,

What tools are you using to encode your audio in dolby digital plus ?

Actually, I didn´t encode it - it´s from a demuxed .EVO-file from an HDDVD...

Nas

[srfscenar]

hi all!
Could someone tell me how to extract the ISO files?
Thanx!

[box86rowh]

MPEG4 AVC HP@L4.1:
- for the profil: CABAC, 8*8dct, inloop, wpred, Pref
- for the level: Max GOP at 0.6006 sec (15 for PAL), max adaptative bframe at 2, max reference frame at 4 for P and 0 for B, max motion vector lenght at 512 pixels, max bitrate at 20.0 Mbps, cpb at 14745 Kbits

Highest possible quality mode for Elecard (done same metric result than x264 at max quality). I think that quality is really good for only 6 Mbps (IMO really better than HDTV quality) and this movie trailer is really difficult source.

anyway you can post screenshots of your config pages in elecard?
I am trying to interpret these soecs and I can quite figure it out!
Jason

[Clown shoes]

I have been doing some tests with varied results. I have been testing 1080p QuickTime files, encoded with Mainconcept's H264 encoder and then muxed with Scenarist 4.1 SCA. Initially I tried using Sagittaire's Mainconcept settings in the demo of version 2.1, but 2.1 will not allow a 3.2 pulldown to be applied to a 23.976 source! On closer inspection of Sagittaires's settings and screen shots, it appears he is using version 2.0 as the layout matches and it is possible to apply the pulldown. In 2.1 I just select 29.97 as the output frame rate and it produces a stream that plays smoothly and has the same running time (is it applying pulldown automatically?) Both 2.0 and 2.1 produce streams that Scenarist is happy to accept although it refuses to mux streams with constant bitrates higher than about 10,000 kbps! throwing the error:

Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 1634865, SCR 1634883)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (GrindHouse-300-t_t.evo).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.
Error Multiplexer failed "300-t"

One trailer for the Grindhouse will not accept anything above about 6,000 kbps. Is this being caused by my VBV? It has me a little confused.

I need to invest in a good h264 encoder and seeing as the Mainconcept one is several thousand pounds cheaper than the Elecard one, I would obviously prefer to take that route. I just want to make sure that it is fully compatable at this stage.


Oh I almost forgot. jumping between VTSs appears to freeze a DVD5 test disc on an Xbox360 HD drive.

[Trahald]

i used 2.1 and i set turn pulldown on in hte advance settings->misc->general->film mode framerate conv 3:2. this will apply pulldown to the timecode sei. .the tool i made will add 3:2 to an existing file but slow as molasses. doing some speedups first and i'll make it available

[Sergey A. Sablin]

i used 2.1 and i set turn pulldown on in hte advance settings->misc->general->film mode framerate conv 3:2. this will apply pulldown to the timecode sei. .the tool i made will add 3:2 to an existing file but slow as molasses. doing some speedups first and i'll make it available

Are you going to change existing timing in avc stream? if so then buffer model will be broken and this will lead to non-compliant avc stream.

[Clown shoes]

@ Trahald

The problem is 2.1 throws an error in the right hand pane and if I try to apply pulldown to a 23.976 or 24 source. Only 2.0 seems to allow it for me.

@ Sergey

Are you saying that my muxing error is caused by changing the framerate without using pulldown. Thus corrupting the buffer? Could pulldown problem be caused by the source?

[Sergey A. Sablin]

@ Trahald

The problem is 2.1 throws an error in the right hand pane and if I try to apply pulldown to a 23.976 or 24 source. Only 2.0 seems to allow it for me.

@ Sergey

Are you saying that my muxing error is caused by changing the framerate without using pulldown. Thus corrupting the buffer? Could pulldown problem be caused by the source?

nope, I said that changing SEI messages in existent AVC stream will broke buffer (as timing has been changed after encoding). Changing frame rate for source before encoding has no effect on buffer. This will only change output frame rate.

[Clown shoes]

Any idea what the muxing problem might be caused by? I don't know what I should be setting the VBV to. All I know is that it changes the DTS and SCR figures within the Scenarist error: Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 1634865, SCR 1634883) depending on how high I set it.

I am also still getting the error: C045:H.264 Validation Error: Invalid target frame_rate/pulldown combination. Must be 29.97, 30, 59.94, or 60. every time I try to set pulldown on a 23.976 source

Very Confused! :confused:

My company is ready to dip it's toe into the HD arena. We can produce compliant MPEG2 files with procoder, but we would like to move over to the more efficient H264. Untill we can see it working properly, that just isn't going to happen :(

[Sergey A. Sablin]

Any idea what the muxing problem might be caused by? I don't know what I should be setting the VBV to. All I know is that it changes the DTS and SCR figures within the Scenarist error: Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 1634865, SCR 1634883) depending on how high I set it.

I am also still getting the error: C045:H.264 Validation Error: Invalid target frame_rate/pulldown combination. Must be 29.97, 30, 59.94, or 60. every time I try to set pulldown on a 23.976 source

Very Confused! :confused:

My company is ready to dip it's toe into the HD arena. We can produce compliant MPEG2 files with procoder, but we would like to move over to the more efficient H264. Untill we can see it working properly, that just isn't going to happen :(

if this is commercial interest I don't think that this is a good place to discuss your problems. If you are intersted in our program and have a problems you can contact our techsupport for the answers.

[Sagittaire]

i used 2.1 and i set turn pulldown on in hte advance settings->misc->general->film mode framerate conv 3:2. this will apply pulldown to the timecode sei. .the tool i made will add 3:2 to an existing file but slow as molasses. doing some speedups first and i'll make it available

If you make that you must rewrite HRD parameters in the stream. IMO the best way is pehaps to make complete flags rewrite tools:

-> input is basic H264 raw stream
- tool write Sequence End Code flag
- tool write SEI flag
- tool write HRD flag
- tool write pulldown flag
etc etc etc
-> output is compliant HDDVD/BD stream