Elecard H.264/MPEG2 Converter 1.2 [Archive] - Page 3

shon3i

23rd December 2006, 16:13

Why i can't choose HE-AAC in my encoding?

I use this avs script.

V=DGDecode_mpeg2source("JayAndSilentBobStrikeBack.d2v",info=3).ColorMatrix(hints=true)
A=NicAc3Source("JayAndSilentBobStrikeBack.ac3", DRC=1).Normalize()
AudioDub(V,A)

That is only when i select avs source, but when i select vob, HE-AAC is alowed

MuTeK

26th December 2006, 07:45

HE-AAC supports only a stereo mode.

shon3i

27th December 2006, 14:28

HE-AAC supports only a stereo mode.
Why this, HE-AAC 5.1 around 128kbps with CT and Nero Encoder give us good quality.

Is this will be implemented in future?

MuTeK

28th December 2006, 07:30

Is this will be implemented in future?
yes, of course

vsv

4th January 2007, 20:56

MuTeK, why impossible to save preset with level 4.1 ?
After encoding mode Level everytime in mode "auto" and Stream Analyzer displayed level_idc=40 instead of 41. In version 1.0
this bug not fixed. Thanks.

shon3i

28th January 2007, 12:55

I found bug in this new demo version from Jan 19/2007, when i encode a clip short or long(15000 frames), first half of video have perfect quality, but second have Quantizer 51 and bitrate about 40kbps.

Short video sample http://www.mytempdir.com/1189917

Because i lost lastest working version i think is form Dec 21/2006, can somebody send me. Thnaks

PS. I read on Elecard and Mainconecpt web, did this companies now seperated?

MuTeK

29th January 2007, 08:51

It’s weird ‘cause I’ve tested it on several streams and failed to reproduce the situation. The source file is big, is it possible to upload it on FTP? It would be also good to know all settings for the task

shon3i

29th January 2007, 09:07

I can upload source later, but that isn't problem with one source. This problem happed me first time when i update, first movie which i encode is F&F Tokyo Drift and haved same problem, but after encoding two movies which are fine, same thing again happend with this Final Destination 3.

Here is profile i'v used in this encodings http://www.mytempdir.com/1191171

Can you send me earlier version?

dand

29th January 2007, 13:39

Why this, HE-AAC 5.1 around 128kbps with CT and Nero Encoder give us good quality.

Is this will be implemented in future?

5.1 can not be a pure HE v2, as 5.1 contains 6 channels and only two pairs (front pair and back pair) can be done as HE v2. Central channel should be HE v1, and subwoofer only LC AAC as it doesn't contain any high frequencies.

Currently, MC supports LC and HE v1 with 5.1, HE v2 supports only stereo.

Also, HE is not transparent, not hi-fi, so I wouldn't go with HE for 5.1 at all. Pozdrav!

Sagittaire

29th January 2007, 13:57

Also, HE is not transparent, not hi-fi, so I wouldn't go with HE for 5.1 at all. Pozdrav!

HE can be good solution for high resolution 96/88.2 Khz source ...

shon3i

29th January 2007, 16:59

5.1 can not be a pure HE v2, as 5.1 contains 6 channels and only two pairs (front pair and back pair) can be done as HE v2. Central channel should be HE v1, and subwoofer only LC AAC as it doesn't contain any high frequencies.

Currently, MC supports LC and HE v1 with 5.1, HE v2 supports only stereo.

Also, HE is not transparent, not hi-fi, so I wouldn't go with HE for 5.1 at all. Pozdrav!
I think HE-AACv2 can't be for 5.1, but who know's, It is a good idea but i don't know how much it is possible. On other way this makes sense and maybe can be useful for example for lower bitrates around 64kbps, because now 5.1 HE-AACv1 is only supported down to 96kbps (CT encoder) and 80kbps (Nero encoder). BTW for these bitrates HEAACv1 makes realy good impression, for lower i think is better to wait MPEG Surround.

I don't know for you but IMHO 128kbps HEAACv1 5.1 sound me good enough, even much better than i expect, maybe isn't full trasparent but isn't bad at all. You should listen some samples, here you have some 5.1 samples http://www.seemoredigital.net/51_Test_Encodes.html

192 is even better, aslo both Nero and CT recommend HEAACv1 for higher bitrates Nero up to 256kbps, CT up to 213kbps, For everything upper LC-AAC is better, of course for 5.1

Pozdrav za prijatelja iz Hrvatske!

shon3i

29th January 2007, 17:03

HE can be good solution for high resolution 96/88.2 Khz source ...
DSBR or Oversampled SBR, isn't good at all, that is HE-AAC High from CT encoder, this force encoder to encode SBR above 14khz instead standard 11khz, maybe you right, but for example 192 HE-AAC High isn't better than 192 LC-AAC because isn't transparent at all.

Sagittaire

29th January 2007, 17:18

DSBR or Oversampled SBR, isn't good at all, that is HE-AAC High from CT encoder, this force encoder to encode SBR above 14khz instead standard 11khz, maybe you right, but for example 192 HE-AAC High isn't better than 192 LC-AAC because isn't transparent at all.

Well I more speak in theory about high quality encoding. For example HE 96 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps vs LC 48 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps with real 96 Khz source ...

IgorC

29th January 2007, 17:50

Well I more speak in theory about high quality encoding. For example HE 96 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps vs LC 48 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps with real 96 Khz source ...
Your statements are logical talking about theory.
Yes, it's probably true that cutting off of high frequencies at low samplerate is worth than its SB replication at higher samplerate but only in case if bitrate is enough high to hand important interval of frequencies up to 20 khz. If it won't enough high there will be sound quality degradation due to high sensivity of human hearing at frequencies 20hz-20khz.

But your example of 448 kbps 5.1 is equivalent to 160-192 kbps stereo. Nero and Itunes LC-AAC at 192 kbps preserve up to approx. 19 khz honestly. If sbr will be enabled at such bitrate then there will be true freq. archiving at LC part only up to maybe 14 khz while 15khz and higher freq. will be replicated (not actually handled well).

And another thing. Do everybody (if anybody) need 96khz sound? There were many discussions on HA forum and many people arrived to conclusion taht 44.1-48 khz,16 bit is enough for final customer.
Vastly mayority of people failed on spoting between 48 and 96 khz samples.

HeadBangeR77

29th January 2007, 20:22

I think HE-AACv2 can't be for 5.1, but who know's, It is a good idea but i don't know how much it is possible. On other way this makes sense and maybe can be useful for example for lower bitrates around 64kbps, because now 5.1 HE-AACv1 is only supported down to 96kbps (CT encoder) and 80kbps (Nero encoder). BTW for these bitrates HEAACv1 makes realy good impression, for lower i think is better to wait MPEG Surround.
(...)
The reason HE v2 won't work with 5.1 sound is simple:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=929284&postcount=21

How would you expect parametric stereo to work with 5.1? ;)
It doesn't even want to swallow AC3 and mix the channels, at least Nero Encoder.

Btw. with all due respect to AAC technology and HE profiles, the sound can't be packed to that amount and sound well, it's impossible, at least atm - I'm speaking about 5.1 HE-AAC v1 below 100kbps.

Pozdrowienia z Polski ;)

shon3i

29th January 2007, 20:51

The reason HE v2 won't work with 5.1 sound is simpleI know that, but i said in teory (because i don't know is possible) like Dand said using PS for 2 pairs (FL,FR and SL,SR) can save bitrate, probably not much, but enough for encode 5.1@64kbps, and that to sound simmilar like HEAACv1 @ 96kbps 5.1. Look for example MPEG Surround standard where are all channels mixed in encoding and reconstructed/seperated in decoder, http://www.codingtechnologies.com/products/mpgsrnd.htm

I'm speaking about 5.1 HE-AAC v1 below 100kbpsWell 96kbps HE-AACv1 5.1 isn't much terrible, FL,FR,C channels have up to 15khz which enough for good overall quality, both nero and ct encoders provide good quality @96kbps, but that is my opinion. Nero allow to go to 80kbps for 5.1 but artifatcts are easy noticable.

Pozdrowienia z PolskiWell i don't speek Polski but i understand this, greetings to you

Well I more speak in theory about high quality encoding. For example HE 96 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps vs LC 48 Khz 5.1 at 448 Kbps with real 96 Khz source ...In practice that isn't possible now beacause HE-AAC High is only for stereo and i think never will be for 5.1, and HE-AAC in nero is allowed (by developers) up to 256kbps in 5.1, because have no sense to use HE-AAC for higher rates.

dand

29th January 2007, 21:02

...using PS for 2 pairs (FL,FR and SL,SR) can save bitrate probably not much, but enough for encode 5.1@64kbps, and that to sound simmilar like HEAACv1 @ 96kbps 5.1.

This shouldn't be hard to calculate: two stereo pairs each taking 20 kbps with HEv2, one central channel taking 30 with HEv1, and subwoofer taking 10 kbps usign LC AAC, gives altogether around 80 kbps for 5.1. Take +-20% and there you have some meaningfull range. Pozdrav Poljskoj!

HeadBangeR77

29th January 2007, 21:16

Just one thing: I've heard many samples from Nero website, I mean those movie trailers:
- Nero Digital ASP + AAC LC
- Nero Digital AVC + AAC HE v1
Guess they are encoded and muxed this way as a rule. The sound was 2.0 for both versions, somewhere between 60-80 kbps, and I could clearly distinguish one from the other. The latter just sounded worse, much worse, what was especially audible in spoken parts. I would never encode 2.0 sound for a movie like that.

Since you've got more experience with AAC - did they f**** something up? Or could it be due to my outdated decoder (Core AAC)?

dand

29th January 2007, 21:25

...I could clearly distinguish one from the other. The latter just sounded worse, much worse, what was especially audible in spoken parts. I would never encode 2.0 sound for a movie like that.

As I said above - HE is not hi-fi, use it for your mobile phone clips, not for high definition movie with surround sound!

HeadBangeR77

29th January 2007, 21:37

As I said above - HE is not hi-fi, use it for your mobile phone clips, not for high definition movie with surround sound!
Ta, now it's clear to me (I think) - the more suprises me it's been used in those trailers, unless they wanted to show off with the video's quality only.

PS. I encode MP3s -V2 -b128 (minimal bitrate by VBR) both for mobile and home use. With 1-2GB in your cellular phone it ain't a problem at all :D

shon3i

29th January 2007, 21:50

decoder (Core AAC)?Well what version of decoder you use, beacuse i stick to ffdshow, bad decoders can't propertly decode SBR part, and you get very bad 11khz LC-AAC audio.

Bulletproof

30th January 2007, 00:23

So far in my preliminary tests, the elecard encoder seems to do better than x264 with high frequency detail. With x264 it seems to blur out the detail by alot (both tests had deblocking disabled). In a 2nd quick test it seems x264 does better with mid-low frequency detail. I have not tried Ateme's encoder yet.

Bulletproof

30th January 2007, 01:13

I tried to get the settings as close as possible to each other. Deblocking is off on all of them. 1mbit/s.

http://www.tools4images.net/files/Bulletproof-original.jpg

http://www.tools4images.net/files/Bulletproof-ateme.jpg

http://www.tools4images.net/files/Bulletproof-elecard.jpg

http://www.tools4images.net/files/Bulletproof-x264.jpg

Filesizes:

1,356,584 elecard.mp4
1,244,570 ateme.mp4
1,248,659 x264.mp4

MuTeK

30th January 2007, 05:01

And where settings?

shon3i
try new version.. download (http://www.elecard.com/ftp/pub/MobileConverter/EConverterStudio_Demo.zip)

Bulletproof

30th January 2007, 05:32

And where settings?

Ateme: hdtv profile, 2-pass, high quality, 255 motion vector, 4 reference frames, 250 gop, 3 bframes, CABAC, bidirectional prediction, macroblock partition, weighted prediction, 8x8 transform, deblocking off, all 3 psychovisual enhancements on, chroma prediction.

Elecard: AVC high profile best quality 2 pass.

x264: HQ-Insane profile.

Deblocking off on all 3, 1mbit/s.

JohnV

30th January 2007, 06:16

Ateme looks by far the best of the screen caps, but I'd rather see small video clips of each..

shon3i

30th January 2007, 17:32

MuTeK
Same thing, like is ratecontrol broken. File is oversized. And now it's happend for all movies.

I set target filesize to 600 mb and i get file of 620 mb where this 600mb are fine, and this 20mb are encoded @ q51 which are 1/4 of video.

Can you send me earlier version from dec 2006 please? Thanks

Bulletproof

30th January 2007, 19:05

I'm going to try another test this evening, and I'll include the clips this time. If anyone wants me to try any other competitive codec, let me know its name and where to download it.

MuTeK

9th February 2007, 09:13

Version 1.1 release (http://www.elecard.com/ftp/pub/MobileConverter/EConverterStudio_Demo.zip)

New features and changes:
• The Speed/Quality mode (allows changing the speed/quality correlation)
• New file opening mode Open file(s) as multi-source
• New file opening mode Open file(s) as single-file
• Command line support (Pro/Pro HD versions only)
• Enhanced MPEG PS/TS multiplexer adjustment (Pro/Pro HD versions only)
• Enhanced MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 ASP/AVC decoder adjustment
• Ability to overlay any picture as a logo on picture (Elecard Logo Renderer) (Pro/Pro HD versions only)
• Ability to save profiles and their descriptions

R3Z

9th February 2007, 11:49

MuTeK

12th February 2007, 06:21

It is really necessary?
may be later..

NanoBot

12th February 2007, 11:54

R3Z

13th February 2007, 09:53

Hi Mutek and R3Z,

I would like to support R3Zs request for a constant quality / quantisizer mode. When comparing the trial versions of the main concept and the elecard h.264 encoders it was the main thing I missed in the elecard encoder. Whenever a given filesize of the target is not the main goal, one pass CQ is IMHO the best and fastest method to encode / reencode.

C.U. NanoBot

Cheers NanoBot, i thought i was the only one who didnt like to butcher my videos for the sake of a filesize. :sly:

Constant quality is much better than two pass for me, simply because my spare time is rare and constant quality guarantes a certain quality.

shon3i

13th February 2007, 14:14

Cheers NanoBot, i thought i was the only one who didnt like to butcher my videos for the sake of a filesize. :sly:

Constant quality is much better than two pass for me, simply because my spare time is rare and constant quality guarantes a certain quality.
Well, with elecard you can use constant bitrate in 2pass.

Sagittaire

13th February 2007, 15:26

Cheers NanoBot, i thought i was the only one who didnt like to butcher my videos for the sake of a filesize. :sly:

Constant quality is much better than two pass for me, simply because my spare time is rare and constant quality guarantes a certain quality.

In general case you can't have constant quality with vbv. Multipass is by far the best way with vbv if you want the more possible constant quality ...

MuTeK

21st February 2007, 11:33

Version 1.1.52 release
New features:
• Change Profile option for tasks in TaskList
• AVC CQ mode
• AVC Blu-Ray and Sony Playstation3 profiles

Fixed bugs:
• Incorrect displaying of Add file(s) with profile… dialog (SpeedQuality string) when profile is changed
• Statistics displaying on the second encoding pass
• Adding great number of files in the Add file(s) with profile… mode
• Working with CBP (VBV) buffer in VBR mode (AVC/H.264 Video Encoder)

vsv

22nd February 2007, 20:53

MuTeK, thanks!
Looks at this price is a better avc encoder ever!
Good work!:thanks:

acrespo

23rd February 2007, 20:24

I have asked about iPod 5.5G profile to support by email but I didn't receive a response in 72 hours.

The problem is: iPod 5.5G profile is limiting the video bitrate to 920kbps but this device support 1500 kbps in H264. This is occuring in 1.1 registered version.

MuTeK

26th February 2007, 05:19

please download this profile

acrespo

26th February 2007, 15:37

The problem is the same. When I change the bitrate to anything higher than 920kbps, converter studio back this setting to 920 again. If I change the option "Compatible" in Main tab to Custom, I can change the bitrate to anything. The problem only occurs when this setting is "For iPod"

SealTooGreat

8th March 2007, 20:39

Does Elecard H.264/MPEG2 Converter have custom matrices and custom PAR?! I couldn't find them in the options.

Jay Bee

19th March 2007, 10:20

Hi, I'm trying to make HD-DVD/BR compliant streams with this demo. If I select the respective profiles for this the resulting elementary stream still fails in Scenarist with the error "Warning : Number of SequenceEndCode is 0." What's wrong?

And another question: if I change the output container to MP4 and then later demux the MP4 (xmuxer pro), the new elementary stream is not recognized as an AVC stream in Scenarist ("clip.h264 is not supported file format"). Is there a way to make this work?

Thanks for any help.

Sergey A. Sablin

19th March 2007, 10:55

Jay Bee

19th March 2007, 13:09

Oh, I just noticed that there is an error and a warning. The error is "Error : Aspect ratio (0 = forbidden) is illegal."

The source is 720x576 and the Aspect Ratio is set to 4:3 in Converter Studio. Changing this setting doesn't help but resizing to 1920x1080 does.

HD-DVD and BR do support 720x576 SD don't they?

acrespo

20th March 2007, 19:48

Well the problem I post before Is not resolved yet. Anybody have some alternative to increase the bitrate in iPod 5.5 profile?

MuTeK

21st March 2007, 07:25

In the current version the bitrate is restricted for iPod profile on the 920kbps level. In the near future we are going to release a fixed version where the maximal bitrate will be 1500kbps.

RBF

21st March 2007, 09:45

Jay Bee
Oh, I just noticed that there is an error and a warning. The error is "Error : Aspect ratio (0 = forbidden) is illegal."
HD-DVD and BR do support 720x576 SD don't they?
Use this profiles:
HD-DVD-720x576_4x3 (http://rbf.nm.ru/HD-DVD-720x576_4x3)
HD-DVD-720x576_16x9 (http://rbf.nm.ru/HD-DVD-720x576_16x9)

Jay Bee

21st March 2007, 10:41

Thanks. The stream works with scenarist now but the resulting file has an AR of 785/576=1.36. Shouldn't this be 768/576=1.33?

kamikaZi_blitz

23rd March 2007, 05:17

So far I am pleased with the demo. It's a very fast encoder. I am only having one problem. I am trying to convert some h264material into an HD DVD compatible format, and have tried every option, but neither Cinevision, Scenarist 1.4, Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 nor DVDit Pro HD will import it. Is there some trick that I am missing here? As for the source,its 720p 25fps so is that maybe the problem? Or is the Elecard Convertor Studio messing up somewhere?