Aften 0.0.8 is out

[raquete]

oh, i don't knew about aften -longhelp option.
EncWAVtoAC3 have one kind of "online help" when you let the mouse over the option but dissapear fast and you have to take the mouse there again...between this blinkings moments when the help appear and dissapear, me, with my magnific english forgot what i read and need to restart the lecture thousands times...lol
better is print the -longhelp!
i will do one short list(really short) with specifics questions.
thanks tebasuna.

[wisodev]

wisodev
when and if you have time, can you do a "how to" explaining each parameter of advanced mode/options and advanced options in EncWAVtoAC3?
(for boreds users like me :p)
thanks.

Tip: Each advanced option has a tool tip if you mouse over it in program window, even each item in adv. options list has tool tip based on Aften -longhelp text.

Edit: Ups I was to slow :)

[OAKside]

OAKside, what i upload for you was EncWAVtoAC3-4.1 with Aften R832 and works perfectly, right? (or not? )
now is ok as wisodev reupload "everything" but i'm curious about what i send for you. Thanks raquete. EncWAVtoAC3 does not include the various Aften EXEs (only DLLs), which I wanted to test in a few other apps.
(AVStoDVD, MeGUI, etc.) I didn't want to bug you about it again. :) I appreciate the help and response, guys.

I noticed Aften R843, happily tried out the EXE (MeGUI) and that's when I noticed the weird/slow behavior compared to R762.
So I was looking for a slightly older build. (It's worth mentioning that I haven't reproduced weird R843 behavior again, though. :confused:)

[raquete]

all that i have is here, if you're interested in any or in all, i upload for you:
dates here appear as day/month/year

aften_20060709(09/07/2006), aften_parallel(22/11/2006), aften-0.0.8.tar(19/07/2008), aften-0.01(11/07/2006), aften-0.02.tar(11/07/2006), aften-0.02(15/07/2006), aften-0.03(20/07/2006), aften-0.03-dev(23/04/2006), aften-0.03-dev new(30/07/2006), aften-0.03-dev(05/08/2006), aften-0.04(05/08/2006), Aften-0.04_rev13(06/08/2006), Aften-0.04_rev27(09/08/2006), aften-0.04kurtniose(06/08/2006), aften-0.04-win32-i586(05/08/2006), aften-0.04-win32-i686(05/08/2006, aften-0.05(09/01/2007), Aften-0.05_rev185(23/10/2006), Aften-0.05_rev211(28/10/2006), aften-0.05_rev214(30/10/2006), aften-0.05-win32, aften-current.tar(20/07/2006), aften-daily-080606.tar(06/08/2006), AftenGui 1.0,1.1,1.2,1.3,1.4.
another folder(maybe can repeat some versions): aften_rev382(18/02/2007), aften_rev467(18/03/2007), aften-0.03(09/01/2007), aften-0.04(09/01/2007), aften-0.04-win32-i686(Justin)(10/01/2007), aften-0.05_rev216(09/01/2007), aften-0.05-win32(Justin)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r216-win32-bin(Wisodev)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r224-bin(Wisodev)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r224-bin(09/01/2007), aften-svn-r433-win32-bin(27/02/2007).

EncWAVtoAC3: seems that have all versions.(16 versions)

[Paulcat]

Due to a strange failure in my BeSweet/BeLight combo, the wav file I was trying to encode to an ac3 file ended up with no sound. I needed a quick fix and went to FFMpegGUI (0.3) and to WavToAC3Enc (4.1). I tested both with some small wav files (Windows Startup Sound!) and only the FFMpeg version of the ac3 file would play (Using AC3 Filter 1.65, the latest one, and Media Player Classic 6.4.9.1).

Since I was pressed for time, I had to use FFMpeg to do my main file and build my dvd, but it is quite old (adding newer versions of FFMpeg.exe to the directory caused the same error in playing the WavToAC3Enc converted files, namely the "Cannot render the file" error from MPC)

BeSweet/BeLight always worked for me before, I don't know if there was some strange error in the wav file or whether the files on my HD got corrupted, but I still need a way to do the conversion.

I'm assuming that WavToAC3Enc is producing genuine ac3 files, what can I use to play them on my pc? I don't want to go through the trouble to create a physical dvd and find out after that it won't play correctly in my set top!

Paul

[raquete]

play your file with winamp(using AC3 Filter, can be found in winamp or AC3 filter homepages)

[Paulcat]

So this is just an issue with MPC? I've never had an issue before...

[tebasuna51]

... I needed a quick fix and went to FFMpegGUI (0.3) and to WavToAC3Enc (4.1). I tested both with some small wav files (Windows Startup Sound!) and only the FFMpeg version of the ac3 file would play ...
Please upload your converted ac3 files.

[Vincent Vega]

hi everyone, i just used megui .1051 (aften r832 sse, nicaudio 2009-06-25, all the other updates too) to convert 5.1 dts to 5.1 ac3 (default aften settings, except bitrate 448).

as i understand the theoretical math for my audio stream should be:
dts: 763872 frames x 512 samples/frame = 391102464 (2:15:47)
to
ac3: 254624 frames x 1536 samples/frame = 391102464 (2:15:47)

now valex's ac3file filter property page shows one extra frame in the encoded ac3 stream (254625) and duration 2:15:48

is this normal or not? heres ac3file screenshots in attach:

[tebasuna51]

Each time you encode to ac3 (commercial encoders also) a initial silence of 256 samples is padded before the source.
For a 48 KHz samplerate audio means a delay of 5.333 ms and the output is 5.333 ms long needing a frame more.

You can avoid this delay usin the Aften parameter -pad 0

[Vincent Vega]

thank you very much tebasuna51 for the explanation. then i have one more question: now to do the best to sync this ac3back to video i'd need a negative audio delay of 6ms and mkvmerge does allow delays of multiples of 2ms. at the same time from what i remember audio delays can only work if they are multiples of frame size (32ms in this case), so telling mmg to use -6ms delay will only result in some unpredictable behavior right?

[tebasuna51]

Forget the delay or use BeHappy instead MeGUI to put the -pad 0 parameter

[Terrachild]

I'm new to Aften, I'm using "WAV to AC3 Encoder 4.1" as the GUI, and boy are there a lot of settings.

I'm making 5.1 surround files.

If I want to get the best sound possible, what should I be changing. I don't care how slow the encoder is, just best quality.

Thanks.

[tebasuna51]

Use 640 Kb/s, -readtoeof 1 (for big files) and defaults.

[Vincent Vega]

hi tebasuna51, -pad 0 and behappy did the trick, thanx a lot.

perhaps you could kindly help me figure out one more thing: i converted this 5.1 dts to 5.1 ac3, i used Norm. to 100% and encoder defaults. now im playing these files using ac3filter and downmixed to stereo (old ac97 alc101 on this machine ).

with exactly the same ac3filter settings and same mixer matrix, dts sounds significantly louder, why this loudness difference? actually i've had the same issue with all my previous dts->ac3 megui encodes.

[Abradoks]

Objective comparison of AC3 encoders

Source: DTS 1510 kbit/s 48kHz 6ch (Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End)
Decoding into WAV (PCM 24 bit) — eac3to (libav).
SNR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio) measurement (bigger is better) and padding detection — CompAudio (http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents/Software/Packages/AFsp/CompAudio.html)
PEAQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEAQ) measurement (bigger is better) — PQevalAudio (http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents/Software/Packages/AFsp/PQevalAudio.html)
Padding — delaycut
WAV splitting — BeSplit
Spectrograms — Sound Forge

aften r832 (from MeGUI)
Dolby Digital Encoder 6.2.2 (Sonic Foundry Soft Encode 1.0.19): output.DD6448.ac3 (448 kbps), output.DD6224.ac3 (224 kbps)
Dolby Digital Encoder 7.0 (Sony Vegas Pro 9.0.563): output.DD7448.ac3 (448 kbps), output.DD7224.ac3 (224 kbps)

Difference between aften_wide and aften_spec:
- aften (wide) encodes full frequency range: -w 60
- aften (spec) encodes same frequency range as DD encoders:
448 kbps -> 20.34 kHz -> w=48
224 kbps -> 9.05 kHz -> w=8

Preprocessing in Dolby Encoder was disabled:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3071/sfse.th.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/sfse.png/)

Comparison:
Name | SNR | PEAQ

448 kbps, ch L

DD7 | 26.297| -0.226
DD6 | 26.268| -0.222
aften | 20.653| -0.478
aften (spec) | 18.504| -0.288
aften (wide) | 19.368| -1.539

Aften gets less points than proprietary Dolby Digital Encoder (here referred to as "DD") both in SNR and PEAQ.
DD7 has slightly better results than DD6.

Average frequency graphs:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/36/freq.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/freq.png/)
As you can see, aften has bigger frequency cutoff by default than DD.
With "-w 48" (aften_spec) it matches DD and more than that, it saves high frequency average energy closer to original.
But in all three cases aften has higher energy on low frequencies then original track.

DD6 vs DD7:
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4406/freqdd6vsdd7.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/freqdd6vsdd7.png/)

Time-frequency spectrograms
Original: aften_wide: aften_spec: DD7: DD6:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7586/specinput.th.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/specinput.png/)http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9016/specaftenwide.th.png (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/specaftenwide.png/)http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7751/specaftenspec.th.png (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/specaftenspec.png/)http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1278/specdd7.th.png (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/specdd7.png/)http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9971/specdd6.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/specdd6.png/)


448 kbps, ch C

DD7 | 26.039| -0.211
DD6 | 26.003| -0.208
aften | 20.349| -0.379
aften (spec) | 18.274| -0.263
aften (wide) | 19.108| -0.975

Average frequency graphs:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9238/freqc.th.png (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/freqc.png/)

Time-frequency spectrograms
Original: aften_spec: DD7:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/514/specinputc.th.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/specinputc.png/)http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7941/specaftenspecc.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/specaftenspecc.png/)http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2899/specdd7c.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/specdd7c.png/)


224 kbps, ch L

DD7 | 21.187| -2.266
DD6 | 20.845| -2.275
aften | 15.009| -2.584
aften (spec) | 14.830| -2.596
aften (wide) | 6.6604| -3.527

Average frequency graphs:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2221/freq224.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/freq224.png/)


224 kbps, ch C

DD7 | 19.303| -2.227
DD6 | 19.213| -2.239
aften | 14.542| -2.601
aften (spec) | 14.378| -2.583
aften (wide) | 6.5879| -3.139


448 kbps, all channels (SNR only)

aften L | 20.653 || DD7 L | 26.297
aften R | 20.525 || DD7 R | 26.490
aften C | 20.349 || DD7 C | 26.039
aften SL | 21.137 || DD7 SL | 25.819
aften SR | 21.003 || DD7 SR | 25.541
aften LFE | 22.176 || DD7 LFE | -0.039484 || DD6 LFE | 29.818

When running tests on all channels this strange problem with LFE was discovered.
I have rechecked everything several times, but DD7 was still getting bad results on LFE.
As you see DD6 hasn't this problem. More tests required to check this out.

Average frequency graphs (LFE):
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4736/freqlfe.th.png (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/freqlfe.png/)

Time-frequency spectrograms (LFE)
Original: aften_spec: DD7:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3403/speclfeinput.th.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/speclfeinput.png/)http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4563/speclfeaften.th.png (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/speclfeaften.png/)http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2580/speclfedd7.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/speclfedd7.png/)


Commandline:
aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -w 60 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448_wide.ac3
aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -w 48 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448_spec.ac3
aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448.ac3
aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -w 60 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224_wide.ac3
aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -w 8 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224_spec.ac3
aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224.ac3

C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448_wide.ac3 output.aften448_wide.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448_spec.ac3 output.aften448_spec.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448.ac3 output.aften448.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224_wide.ac3 output.aften224_wide.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224_spec.ac3 output.aften224_spec.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224.ac3 output.aften224.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6448.ac3 output.DD6448.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6224.ac3 output.DD6224.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7448.ac3 output.DD7448.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7224.ac3 output.DD7224.wavs
del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav

delaycut.exe -start 5.33 -out input.L.pad256.wav input.L.wav
delaycut.exe -start 5.33 -out input.C.pad256.wav input.C.wav
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.L.pad636.wav input.L.wav
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.C.pad636.wav input.C.wav

C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_wide.L.wav > output.aften448_wide.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_wide.C.wav > output.aften448_wide.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_spec.L.wav > output.aften448_spec.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_spec.C.wav > output.aften448_spec.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.L.wav > output.aften448.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.C.wav > output.aften448.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_wide.L.wav > output.aften224_wide.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_wide.C.wav > output.aften224_wide.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_spec.L.wav > output.aften224_spec.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_spec.C.wav > output.aften224_spec.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224.L.wav > output.aften224.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224.C.wav > output.aften224.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6448.L.wav > output.DD6448.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6448.C.wav > output.DD6448.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6224.L.wav > output.DD6224.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6224.C.wav > output.DD6224.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.L.wav > output.DD7448.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.C.wav > output.DD7448.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7224.L.wav > output.DD7224.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7224.C.wav > output.DD7224.C.comp.txt

C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_wide.L.wav > output.aften448_wide.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_wide.C.wav > output.aften448_wide.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_spec.L.wav > output.aften448_spec.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_spec.C.wav > output.aften448_spec.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.L.wav > output.aften448.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.C.wav > output.aften448.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_wide.L.wav > output.aften224_wide.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_wide.C.wav > output.aften224_wide.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_spec.L.wav > output.aften224_spec.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_spec.C.wav > output.aften224_spec.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224.L.wav > output.aften224.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224.C.wav > output.aften224.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6448.L.wav > output.DD6448.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6448.C.wav > output.DD6448.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6224.L.wav > output.DD6224.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6224.C.wav > output.DD6224.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.L.wav > output.DD7448.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.C.wav > output.DD7448.C.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7224.L.wav > output.DD7224.L.PEAQ.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7224.C.wav > output.DD7224.C.PEAQ.txt

Measurement SNR of different channels:
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.R.pad636.wav input.R.wav
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.SL.pad636.wav input.SL.wav
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.SR.pad636.wav input.SR.wav
delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.LFE.pad636.wav input.LFE.wav
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448.ac3 output.aften448.all.wavs
C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7448.ac3 output.DD7448.all.wavs
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.all.L.wav > output.aften448.all.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.R.wav output.aften448.all.R.wav > output.aften448.all.R.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.all.C.wav > output.aften448.all.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.SL.wav output.aften448.all.SL.wav > output.aften448.all.SL.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.SR.wav output.aften448.all.SR.wav > output.aften448.all.SR.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.LFE.wav output.aften448.all.LFE.wav > output.aften448.all.LFE.comp.txt

C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.L.wav > output.DD7448.all.L.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.R.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.R.wav > output.DD7448.all.R.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.C.wav > output.DD7448.all.C.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.SL.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.SL.wav > output.DD7448.all.SL.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.SR.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.SR.wav > output.DD7448.all.SR.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.LFE.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.LFE.wav > output.DD7448.all.LFE.comp.txt

C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6448.ac3 output.DD6448.all.wavs
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.LFE.pad256.wav output.DD6448.all.LFE.wav > output.DD6448.all.LFE.comp.txt

Padding detection:
BeSplit.exe -core( -input input.L.wav -prefix input.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 )
BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.aften448.L.wav -prefix output.aften448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 )
BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.DD6448.L.wav -prefix output.DD6448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 )
BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.DD7448.L.wav -prefix output.DD7448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 )
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.aften448.L.cut01.wav > output.aften448.L.cut01.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.DD6448.L.cut01.wav > output.DD6448.L.cut01.comp.txt
C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.DD7448.L.cut01.wav > output.DD7448.L.cut01.comp.txt


Conclusion:
1) There is a simple method of objective audio comparison that anybody can use.
2) Aften has much worse SNR than DD. Even 224 kbps AC3 encoded with DD beats aften 448 kbps in SNR.
3) When using PEAQ metric (which takes into account some psychoacoustic effects) aften is closer to DD, but still worse.
4) If you want to have frequency cutoff similar to DD encoders, you should use w=48 for 448 kbps and w=8 for 224 kbps.
5) Aften saves high frequency average energy closer to original. But it has higher energy on low frequencies then original track.
6) Aften has better SNR on surround channels than on front. With DD it is inversely.
7) DD7 has very bad SNR on LFE channel. More tests should be done on this issue.

P.S. It was originally written in Russian, so feel free to correct spelling.

[yesgrey]

Objective comparison of AC3 encoders
Why have you used a lossy encoded track (DTS 1510kbps) as the source for the tests? I think it turns the results less meaningfull...

[honai]

Actually, the results are thoroughly invalidated by that.

Also, even though the Blu-ray of At World's End contains a lossless LPCM track, it's 16 bit and therefore not suitable for this test, either.

[jruggle]

Difference between aften_wide and aften_spec:
- aften (wide) encodes full frequency range: -w 60
- aften (spec) encodes same frequency range as DD encoders:
448 kbps -> 20.34 kHz -> w=48
224 kbps -> 9.05 kHz -> w=8

That is actually very good to know. I don't have access to a DD encoder. I would not be opposed to changing the defaults if that's what users would prefer. What are the other cutoffs for different bit rates and channel layouts?

edit: also, could you provide some small snippets of the DD-encoded files so that I can see what encoding features and params they use to get the better PEAQ and SNR values?

[Abradoks]

What are the other cutoffs for different bit rates and channel layouts?

3/2 (L, C, R, l, r)
Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz)
640, 576, 512, 448 48 56 60
384 40 44 60
320 32 36 60
256 20 24 44
224 8 12 28

2/2 (L, R, l, r); 3/1 (L, C, R, l)
Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz)
640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320 48 56 60
256 32 36 60
224 24 28 48
192 12 16 32

2/1 (L, R, l); 3/0 (L, C, R)
Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz)
640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320 48 56 60
256 40 44 60
224 32 36 60
192 24 28 48
160 16 20 40
128 0 4 20

2/0 (L, R)
Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz)
640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320, 256, 224, 192 48 56 60
160 32 36 60
128 24 28 52
112 20 24 44
96 0 4 20

1/0 (C)
Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz)
640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320, 256, 224, 192, 160, 128, 112, 96 48 56 60
80 32 36 60
64 16 20 40
56 12 16 32


also, could you provide some small snippets of the DD-encoded files so that I can see what encoding features and params they use to get the better PEAQ and SNR values?
Source wavs (http://rghost.ru/594489), 224.DD6.ac3 (http://rghost.ru/594504), 448.DD6.ac3 (http://rghost.ru/594500). It's one minute (00:16:00-00:17:00) from previously mentioned source. Also, I've noticed that encoding with DD takes much more time compared to aften. 224.DD6.ac3 — 15 seconds, 448.DD6.ac3 — 24 seconds. aften -b 448 takes about 3 seconds.
jruggle, you can send me any sample you want to be encoded with DD plugin.


yesgrey3, honai, are you kidding? There is no difference what source do you take if it is complex enough for current encoding. And that 1510 kbps DTS is hard enough to encode in 448 kbps AC3, as you can see from SNR. Also I was trying to make a real life comparison, so I didn't try to encode any synthetic tracks. Nevertheless you can run test by yourself on any other source. It's not hard if you have DD encoder. I don't think that you will get different results.

[nurbs]

I don't know about audio, but if you use a lossy source with video codecs then codecs that are similar to the codec the source has been encoded with have an advantage.

[Abradoks]

I don't know about audio, but if you use a lossy source with video codecs then codecs that are similar to the codec the source has been encoded with have an advantage.
Right. But when somebody makes a comparison between 20 Mbit/s BD source and 3 Mbit/s rips made with different codecs nobody blames him (even if he uses non-DCT codec).

[yesgrey]

Abradoks,
I've sent you a PM with a link where you can get a sample of a lossless 5.1 48kHz 24bit audio file. If you could rerun the test with it it would be great...

Thanks.

[honai]

The test was biased because inherently the "source" DTS has already been processed/filtered in favor of DTS.

Also, since we know that the LPCM track of At World's End is 16 bit, there is a very high probability that the source for the DTS was also 16 bit, regardless of the DTS header information.

[Abradoks]

I've sent you a PM with a link where you can get a sample of a lossless 5.1 48kHz 24bit audio file. If you could rerun the test with it it would be great...

Name | SNR | PEAQ || SNR | PEAQ
448 kbps 224 kbps
DD6, L | 22.618| -0.205 || 16.188| -2.471
aften, L | 18.541| -0.523 || 12.844| -3.115
DD6, C | 23.644| -0.175 || 16.875| -2.203
aften, C | 18.571| -0.377 || 12.790| -3.109


The test was biased because inherently the "source" DTS has already been processed/filtered in favor of DTS.

Also, since we know that the LPCM track of At World's End is 16 bit, there is a very high probability that the source for the DTS was also 16 bit, regardless of the DTS header information.
I know. But as I've already mentioned it doesn't make a difference. Look at results measured on the 24-bit PCM provided by yesgrey3.

[raquete]

I know. But as I've already mentioned it doesn't make a difference. Look at results measured on the 24-bit PCM provided by yesgrey3.
i can't post in mumbers how much tests i did and i trust in your results but in particular, i'm interested to hear as encoding with aften for long time feel better results when comparing with softencode or with the Dolby encoder inside sound forge 9.

you and yesgrey3 could post yours samples for members apreciations if don't break forum's rules.

regards!

[yesgrey]

But as I've already mentioned it doesn't make a difference. Look at results measured on the 24-bit PCM provided by yesgrey3.
Yes, DD still has better numbers, but the difference is smaller.
I would also like to see the numbers with 640kbps...

you and yesgrey3 could post yours samples for members apreciations if don't break forum's rules.
I have considered posting the file here, but decided not to do it because I did not knew if I could be violating any rule...
I've extracted the period between minute 1:00 to 2:10 of "quantum of solace" Blu-ray.

[SquallMX]

That is actually very good to know. I don't have access to a DD encoder. I would not be opposed to changing the defaults if that's what users would prefer. What are the other cutoffs for different bit rates and channel layouts?

edit: also, could you provide some small snippets of the DD-encoded files so that I can see what encoding features and params they use to get the better PEAQ and SNR values?

Aften use by default the average frequency cut of Dolby Encoders, example:

Dolby 5.1 AC3 448 Kbps, Freq 14/20, Aften 17 Khz
Dolby 2.0 AC3 192 Kbps, Freq 10/20, Aften 15 Khz

Probably because the lack of channel/frequency coupling in Aften, if I recall correctly you need 572/256 Kbps for true 20 Khz cut off on 5.1/2.0 audio files encoded by dolby encoders, ironical you can't get more than that in an official encoder, but with aften you can go up to 24 Khz if you want to.

:helpful:

[raquete]

I have considered posting the file here, but decided not to do it because I did not knew if I could be violating any rule...
I've extracted the period between minute 1:00 to 2:10 of "quantum of solace" Blu-ray.
i posted few samples in lots of formats with round 10 seconds in the forum some time ago in differents threads and i don't break rules as the idea is too share and change informations then, i can't see any problem.

[Abradoks]

Yes, DD still has better numbers, but the difference is smaller.
It's not because of lossless source. With 1 minute sample I've previously posted I get results that differ from the whole track results in the same way:

Name | SNR | PEAQ
448 kbps
DD6, L | 23.382| -0.205
aften, L | 19.154| -0.582

And the difference is not "smaller". Look at PEAQ values.
I would also like to see the numbers with 640kbps...

Name | SNR | PEAQ
640 kbps
DD6, L | 27.809| -0.039
aften, L | 22.764| -0.172
DD6, C | 28.911| 0.003
aften, C | 22.982| -0.056

i'm interested to hear as encoding with aften for long time feel better results when comparing with softencode or with the Dolby encoder inside sound forge 9.
Here (http://rghost.ru/600115) is "Quantum of Solace" source wav, output.448.DD6.ac3 and output.224.DD6.ac3. You can get compiled aften from MeGUI server (http://megui.org/auto/aften_r832.zip). Try to compare DD encoding with default aften frequency range and with tweaked through -w option.
But you should note, that all these numbers are mostly about development. If you feel that aften "sounds better" then you should use it.

[shon3i]

Look at PEAQ values.And you start to use ears instead some numbers. AC3 use different acoustic models to cheat human perception, that mean if some number show that codec A is better than B, B still can be fully transparent to A. Same as PSNR and SSIM for Video measuring.

[yesgrey]

And the difference is not "smaller". Look at PEAQ values.
Yes, I forgot to look at those...:)


Name | SNR | PEAQ
640 kbps
DD6, L | 27.809| -0.039
aften, L | 22.764| -0.172
DD6, C | 28.911| 0.003
aften, C | 22.982| -0.056

I know that maybe it could be slightlt off-topic, but could you, by any chance, also show the numbers for DTS 1510kbps?
It would be interesting to compare the results with the AC3 640kbps, since some tests showed that AC3 640kbps is superior to DTS 1510kbps...

[raquete]

Abradoks
first i thank you to send the samples and source. :)

to encode with aften i use WAVtoAC3Enc4.1, all adjusts default(aften R832, newers versions don't work in my old win2000).

224k: sounds equal, frequences don't go ahead 9KHz.

448: WOW, your sample sounds good, is clever and go ahead 20KHz. :cool:
with aften sounds good too but don't go ahead 17KHz.

see?!? hearing we can feel differences!

...now i have requests to use it in WAVtoAC3Enc :p

cheers and thanks again.

[Abradoks]

with aften sounds good too but don't go ahead 17KHz
Please try to compare aften encodings with different frequency cutoffs. Here (http://rghost.ru/604344) are six samples: aften_wide ("-w 60" for 448 kbit/s and 224 kbit/s; full range), aften_spec ("-w 48" and "-w 8"; DD range) and aften ("-w 34" and "-w 6"; default range).

[raquete]

Abradoks, i'm horrible in command lines :mad: and i use WAVtoAC3Enc4.1(Aften) and don't know how to do the rights adjusts in this prog too.
can you write the command lines to use Aften with yours parameters posted please?

thanks.

[arestarh]

Abradoks, i'm horrible in command lines :mad: and i use WAVtoAC3Enc4.1(Aften) and don't know how to do the rights adjusts in this prog too.
can you write the command lines to use Aften with yours parameters posted please?

thanks.

Maybe this option in WAVtoAC3Enc is equel to key -w in command line mode:
http://uaimage.com/t/625155_1a63499e.jpg (http://uaimage.com/image/1a63499e)

[Abradoks]

Abradoks, i'm horrible in command lines :mad: and i use WAVtoAC3Enc4.1(Aften) and don't know how to do the rights adjusts in this prog too.
can you write the command lines to use Aften with yours parameters posted please?
It was just a description of samples I was linking to. You can just download (http://rghost.ru/604344) it, no need to encode by yourself.

[raquete]

It was just a description of samples I was linking to. You can just download (http://rghost.ru/604344) it, no need to encode by yourself.
ok, i got the files to hear and measure.

output.224.aften don't go ahead 9KHz.
output.224.aften_spec don't go ahead 9,5KHz.
output.224.aften_wide go ahead 23KHz.
output.448.aften don't go ahead 17KHz.
output.448.aften_spec go ahead 20,5KHz.
output.448.aften_wide go ahead 23KHz.

"wide" samples are very very good, 224.aften_wide and 448.aften_spec is very nice too!

i could feel better differences if was know musics but the samples are clevers.

thanks and regards!

[jruggle]

Try to compare DD encoding with default aften frequency range and with tweaked through -w option.
But you should note, that all these numbers are mostly about development. If you feel that aften "sounds better" then you should use it.
So far the only significant difference I've found between the Aften output and the DD output is channel coupling. The bandwidth reported for DD is the upper end of the coupling range. Aften does not support channel coupling yet.

The problem I've had implementing it in Aften has been the complexity of the code due to simd and multi-threading. As an experiment, I stripped all of that out and was able to get working channel coupling (although it was much slower obviously). I'm still working on trying to get it ported over to Aften.

Based on the AC-3 features used, the only other place where there could be some differences is in the exponent strategy decision. I have not analyzed this very thoroughly yet. I think Aften's exponent strategy implementation is pretty good though.

edit: oh, and not that it will matter a lot, but for any further comparisons you should turn on block switching in Aften since DD does block switching by default.

[tebasuna51]

...
As an experiment, I stripped all of that out and was able to get working channel coupling (although it was much slower obviously). I'm still working on trying to get it ported over to Aften.
...

Very much appreciated your effort to improve Aften.

[Abradoks]

for any further comparisons you should turn on block switching in Aften since DD does block switching by default.
It was turned on for aften_spec and aften_wide in the first comparison I have posted.
And thank you for your work on aften. I hope we'll see even better results than DD has.

[Blue_MiSfit]

How would you clever AC3 encoding folks suggest maximizing the quality of 384kbps AC3 for 3/2 + LFE encoding?

I'm currently using EncWAVtoAC3 4.2, without any modifications to the advanced parameters.

~MiSfit

[jruggle]

How would you clever AC3 encoding folks suggest maximizing the quality of 384kbps AC3 for 3/2 + LFE encoding?

I'm currently using EncWAVtoAC3 4.2, without any modifications to the advanced parameters.


aften -b 384 -exps 32 -s 1 -bwfilter 1

Also, if you can increase the -w parameter without quality going below q=240 then that would be good. The -w -2 (variable bandwidth) option is too experimental to be used generally, but doing a test run with it can give you a good idea of how much you can increase the bandwidth without affecting quality too badly.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Thanks, jruggle.

I have two different Dolby encoding systems (Media Encoder Server for Mac, and a DP600 encoder server), and will be comparing the quality of both vanilla AC3 and E-AC3. What software was being used earlier in the thread to generate those pretty spectrographs?

~MiSfit

[nurbs]

Spectrographs don't tell you anything about the quality.

[tebasuna51]

aften -b 384 -exps 32 -s 1 -bwfilter 1

Also, if you can increase the -w parameter without quality going below q=240 then that would be good. The -w -2 (variable bandwidth) option is too experimental to be used generally, but doing a test run with it can give you a good idea of how much you can increase the bandwidth without affecting quality too badly.

The same parameters are recommended when use the max bitrate 640 Kb/s?

Maybe the bwfilter is not necesary when use max banwidth.

[wisodev]

New Aften build is available : http://code.google.com/p/wavtoac3encoder/downloads/list

[TFM_TheMask]

New Aften build is available : http://code.google.com/p/wavtoac3encoder/downloads/list

Can you tell us what has changed in this new version?

[Yobbo]

Wisodev, can you just drag & drop these new libaften.dll's over the existing dll's in your Wav to AC3 Encoder? Will you be updating the Encoder soon?

[wisodev]

Wisodev, can you just drag & drop these new libaften.dll's over the existing dll's in your Wav to AC3 Encoder? Will you be updating the Encoder soon?

New version of WAV to AC3 Encoder is available for download , version 4.3 includes libaften.dll version from 20091226 (Git master head snapshot).
http://code.google.com/p/wavtoac3encoder/downloads/list