PgcEdit v7 discussion thread

[blutach]

Aaah OK - I will experiment. Thanks. BTW: Have you had a chance to review the updated DL guide yet?

Regards

[r0lZ]

Yes, but my mail was blocked again! I've sent it again, to your alt address.

[blutach]

Ach - got them both eventually. I must call the ISP!

Guide now loaded.

Regards

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit v 7.3 released
F. During the trace, when a menu was displayed, hitting the Prev, Next or GoUp button on the virtual remote had no effect.
F. PGC Editor -> Create New Cell -> Create New Blank VOB Cell did not create a new cell if a tiny blcak cell previously created by PgcEdit was already present at the end of the VOB file. Instead, the tiny cell was reused.
F. When using Create New Cell -> Use existing VOB/Cell ID, the cell ID number was always 1.
F. When using Create New Cell on a non-sequential Title PGC (with several PGCs in the same TTN) and the option to create a new chapter, the new chapter number was wrong.
F. When using New Dummy PGC on a Title PGC, the modified Title was not marked as non-sequential in the VMG_TT_SRPT table.
F. When using Delete Last PGC in the Title domain to delete the penultimate PGC of a non-sequential Title (played sequentially), the Title was not marked as sequential in VMG_TT_SRPT. Its time map is now also recomputed when the DVD is saved.

[jm1647]

r0lZ - once again :thanks: for the update!!!!! :D

[President]

PgcEdit v 7.3 released
WOW! Great! Thank's! Already downloading.

[blutach]

Thanks r0lZ.

Regards

[bigotti5]

@r0lZ

If you have a multi-PGC title, two PGCs, chapters in both PGCs and you remove one PGC the number of chapters is modified in VTS_PTT_SRPT but not in VMG_PTT_SRPT (0x0a)


Thanks for the new version

[r0lZ]

OK, will verify that. Thanks.

[setarip_old]

@r0lZ

A VERY small suggestion, if I may - Please include the version number in the filename...

[Oldeman]

A VERY small suggestion, if I may - Please include the version number in the filename...

excellant idea...

[selyb]

Feature Request:
1. Right Click menu for text boxes on the command editor
http://www.selyb.com/menuexample.png


2. option to have virtual remote controls on preview window


3. some while back, i had requested the ability to use Enter key on the command editor to do the same as hitting the OK button
it was implemented but it isnt implemented now :(
was it taken out purposely?

[Video Dude]

The version number is in the file name if you download from r0lz's version section on his site:
http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/versions/

[blutach]

I'd be against version numbers in file names, too. I would think that most people just "install over" the old version and this is very convenient. And yes, you can always get access to the old versions on the server.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Feature Request:
1. Right Click menu for text boxes on the command editor
http://www.selyb.com/menuexample.pngThere is already a "B" button to enter a button number, and you can enter a language code by prefixing it with an apostrophe, like: 'en
BTW, in almost all numeric fields, it is also possible to enter an hex number (0xFF), and even an octal number (077).

2. option to have virtual remote controls on preview windowDue to the way the preview is implemented and interacts with the main Tcl/Tk program, it's currently impossible. Sorry.

3. some while back, i had requested the ability to use Enter key on the command editor to do the same as hitting the OK button
it was implemented but it isnt implemented now :(
was it taken out purposely?I can't use the return key to accept the command editor because Return is already used to validate the hex field. But you can type CTRL-Enter instead. It's the same as clicking OK.

[r0lZ]

Indeed, it is possible to download an archive (including the current release) with the version number in the filename from the "all versions (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/versions/)" folder.

[setarip_old]

Indeed, it is possible to download an archive (including the current release) with the version number in the filename from the "all versions" folder.Let's just say that this option is not as apparent as all of the other listings (that don't reflect the version number in their names) that appear before it on your "Downloads" page - but thanks to both you and "Video Dude" for pointing that out ;>}

[dirio49]

I'd be against version numbers in file names, too. I would think that most people just "install over" the old version and this is very convenient. And yes, you can always get access to the old versions on the server.

Regards

I agree, it makes it easier to install.

[President]

To r0lZ.

May I ask you? I understand, that is a very big work, but it is a very good and necessary possibility (now I forced to use a DVDRemake for this. Stupid program). May be in future... Did you make a more powerful editor for add (before/after current) and delete any dummy PGC's, not for last only? Thanks.

[r0lZ]

Well, inserting, deleting or moving a PGC at any place is easy to do.
The difficult part is to fix the navigation commands. That's not as easy as it sounds. For example, when a PGC is deleted, what should I do with the commands pointing to it?
Also, the advantage is not obvious. It is already possible to create a PGC. It doesn't need to be at a specific position to be used.

Anyway, it's something I would like to do. It's on my ToDo list for a while... but there is always something more important to do first.

[blutach]

I find the unused dummies in the middle of a domain to be just a little irritant. But they do no harm and take up little space. Why bother?

Advanced error checking is my major wish list item, as you know r0lZ :)

Regards

[President]

Well, inserting, deleting or moving a PGC at any place is easy to do.
Thanks. May I hope?:-)
The difficult part is to fix the navigation commands. That's not as easy as it sounds. For example, when a PGC is deleted, what should I do with the commands pointing to it?
If a last PGC is deleting, then what are you doing with links to it now? Nothing. Nothing to fix. Most of all operations in PGCEdit may be make a broken DVD. PGCEdit is program not for lamers. Users must have a some experience and to understand what are they doing:-).
BTW, a DVD Remake fix it automatically. And that feature is impossible to off in DVD Remake. After this, a jump, call and other links (frequently) pointing to a PGC with zero number!!!
Please leave this fix to user. May be include that as menu item in expert mode? Default is off (nothing differences with current mode). Who need it - switch on, like automatically fix goto links within one PGC now.

PS. I agree with blutach. I don't like a DVD with trash PGC. Do you remember a last ifo's, which I sent to you? Near 140 PGC in one VTS!!! I will never believe, that all of it used in DVD.

Edited:
Once more idea: may be make that feature as a plugin?

[r0lZ]

If a last PGC is deleting, then what are you doing with links to it now? Nothing. Nothing to fix.That's right, but in this case, it's easy to locate the commands jumping to nowhere and to fix them manually. But if a PGC is deleted in the middle, the next PGCs will be shifted down, and the jumps will still be valid. It will be mode difficult to fix them. And you will have to fix the jumps to the following PGCs, too. IMO, PgcEdit should do the fixes itself, like with the Remap Titleset function, but as I said, it's not easy.

But maybe I'll do a basic function to delete or move a PGC without fixing the navigation. As a plugin, yes, it's a good idea. But don't expect it soon. It's the summer, and I am currently in lazy mode! :cool:

[AlienX69]

It's the summer, and I am currently in lazy mode! :cool:

Good for you ;) , I'm in that mode too, grab some brewskies and go lay out at the pool every day now that summer is here ...... :D

[President]

But maybe I'll do a basic function to delete or move a PGC without fixing the navigation. As a plugin, yes, it's a good idea. But don't expect it soon. It's the summer, and I am currently in lazy mode! :cool:
:-). Don't hurry. Be resting. Many, many, many thahk's!! As always. You made a big work already. PGC Edit is too too good program now:-). For free soft.

I will be wait you at September, 1:-))).

[bigotti5]

In according to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=844153#post844153) post I made a DVD to check SPRM7 in case of multi-pgc titles.

It seems that there are players with troubles if there is a JumpVTS_PTT command greater than 255 so it is checked too.

jump to PTT>255 should show colorbars for a few seconds and then a table jump to PTT>255 successful

read sprm7 from player should show colorbars for a few seconds and then a table with the result

SPRM7=0
or
SPRM7=1
or
SPRM7=258
or
SPRM7=other

some results

WinDVD, PowerDVD, Nero Showtime -> 258
Marks Tray Player, Sonic Preplay, Ravisent Cinemaster, Scenarist Simulation -> 1
Cyberhome 505, Pioneer DV-444, Pioneer DV-668 -> 1
Muvid DVD-205, Easy ET 602, S.E.G. Hollywood 2 -> 258
NAD T524, Panasonic DMR E 100 H, Cyberhome CH-DVD-402 -> other

Download Test-DVD (http://members.aon.at/video.digital/SPRM7.rar)

[r0lZ]

See also this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=92035&highlight=sprm%287%29+test+dvd), with the results of the SPRM 7 test I did in the past.

You can download my SPRM 7 test DVD on the PgcEdit homepage: TEST_SPRM_7_PAL.zip (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/r0lz/TEST_SPRM_7_PAL.zip), TEST_SPRM_7_NTSC.zip (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/r0lz/TEST_SPRM_7_NTSC.zip).

[sendithere]

Hi r0lZ,

I was trying to send you email, but got no reply. First of all - thanks a lot for such a great tool, I'm still new to it, but the more I use it - more I like it :cool: I think I found a bug - I was going after http://forum.digital-digest.com/showpost.php?p=296707&postcount=1 and I can do #1-4, but #5 is all gray. I downloaded older version 6.3.1 and it works just fine. It looks like this was broken in release 7 - I tried another build (7.1.2 I think) - no luck also...

If needed - I can email you IFO files, but it's not working for at least 3 DVDs, so I guess it has nothing to do with files...
Thanks a lot and hope this helps...

[bigotti5]

I think I found a bug - I was going after http://forum.digital-digest.com/show...07&postcount=1 and I can do #1-4, but #5 is all gray

No bug - r0lZ changed this because these attributes are valid for the whole domain

If you wanna change it click "Domain - Domain stream attributes" from main menu bar


@r0lZ

To the validity of SPRM_7 I found this in US Patent 6370322

http://members.aon.at/video.digital/SPRM7.png

[blutach]

@senditthere - I am afraid you can blame me for asking for this enhancement from r0lZ. I was finding it strange to change 1 PGC when the attributes were for the whole domain. But now, it is very easy to remove from all PGCs as bigotti mentioned.

If you have removed a stream from 1 PGC but left it in others in the same domain, then this enhancement prevents you from taking it out of the PGC (where it does no harm to sit as a placeholder - except that you need to click the remote a bit more to cycle through the streams).

Regards

[r0lZ]

I was trying to send you email, but got no reply.
I have replied to your mail!
Anyway, here is what I wrote:
Hi!

It's not a bug, but only a limitation.

I have changed several things in the Domain Streams Attributes function since v7. Notably, there are now new checkboxes in the GUI to delete a whole stream (and to fix the references in the PGC tables.) This addition is incompatible with the GUI called from the PGC Editor.
Anyway, the Domain Streams Attributes tables are global to the whole domain (hence the name) , and are not directly related to a specific PGC. Having a button in the PGC Editor is therefore a nonsense. It is there only for the user convenience, because it is sometimes necessary to verify the language codes before modifying the streams assignments of the PGC. Since v7, the GUI is read only, to avoid many conflicts and discrepancies.

To access the original, editable GUI, you have to close the PGC Editor (and accept or cancel your changes), be sure to select a PGC of the right domain, and then call Domain -> Domain Stream Attributes (or call the right-click popup menu of the PGC.)

[sendithere]

Thanks everyone - I was away and could not thank you a bit early :) It does not matter to me where is it - as long as I know where to find it :) Thanks a lot for such a great program and once more for the help!

[President]

2 r0lZ.

A timemap plugin is do nothing (or I don't understand it). I have a DVD (it is a second with the same bug), which has a wrong timemap. Really playtime of DVD (main movie) is 1:57:16. Timemap has a 1:57:09 value. I run a plugin, agree with reconstruct and save DVD. PGC Edit recalculating a timemap, saving DVD, but a playtime still the same 1:57:09. IFO's here:
http://rapidshare.de/files/25431206/Lara2.zip.html

Please, help.

Edited:
Maybe it helps you. Both DVD are DL (DVD-9). In this DVD a LB was at 22 cell.

[r0lZ]

The timemap plugin rebuilds the time map tables (VTS_TMAPTI), not the cells and PGC playing time.
But you're right. Since, during the process, the playback times of each cell and of the whole PGC are known, the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.

[Sir Didymus]

...Since, during the process, the playback times of each cell and of the whole PGC are known, the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.

Hi r0lZ!

This would be very useful (and appreciated)!

I noticed as a systematic behaviour of arcoss protected titles that the playback time of many cells in the PGC are slightly screwed up. I have many examples of this...

Correcting the cells (and the PGC) playback time, based on the actual content of the cells would be very helpful, in order to allow Ifoedit, PgcDemux, and other application to properly recover the chapter times of the PGC.

It would be also useful (maybe...) to manually turn on and off the building of the TMAP table: at the moment if one need to add 5 void cells at the end of a PGC, the table is re built every time...

Maybe a solution (I second this) was the one suggested by Blutach, of allowing the addition of more than a single cell per time in the PGC...

All the best,
SD

[President]

The timemap plugin rebuilds the time map tables (VTS_TMAPTI), not the cells and PGC playing time.

Hmm, then such question: what are timemap functions? If a cells and PGC time are wrong, then next/previous chapter entry points are wrong too. I forced to correct manually that points at previous DVD (a chapter buttons has links to wrong episodes in movie) by full remux and change a chapter frames in celltime list.
...the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.
Thank's again! As always:-). You are the best "technical support" was I knew:-). All questions at 5 minutes. Thank's.

[bigotti5]

Really playtime of DVD (main movie) is 1:57:16. Timemap has a 1:57:09 value.


I am not really familiar with NTSC (living in a PAL country) but IMO this is caused by drop/non-drop timecode.
DVD uses non-drop for all timecodes and elapsed times.
1.57 playback time results in ~7 seconds drop/non-drop timecode difference...

[President]

I am not really familiar with NTSC (living in a PAL country) but IMO this is caused by drop/non-drop timecode.
DVD uses non-drop for all timecodes and elapsed times.
1.57 playback time results in ~7 seconds drop/non-drop timecode difference...
What is a drop or non-drop timecode?

[bigotti5]

http://teched.vt.edu/gcc/Html/VirtualTextbook/PDFs/AdobeTutorialsPDFs/Premiere/PremiereTimecode.pdf

[President]

http://teched.vt.edu/gcc/Html/VirtualTextbook/PDFs/AdobeTutorialsPDFs/Premiere/PremiereTimecode.pdf
Many thank's!

[President]

2 bigotti5

I don't think, what it's a reason of that difference. In previous (PAL) DVD a difference was:
1. First layer of DVD-9 is Ok (up to 0:59:00).
2. Second layer has wrong cells&PGC time at constant value approx 4 minutes. Timemap rebuilt was no effect.

Maybe wrong authoring. Maybe incorrect LB. I don't know. I remuxed it and corrected a start frame number of each cell in layer two. It's solved a problem.

[Sir Didymus]

Here is an example of the screwed cell elapsed times:

Celltimes from the original ifo file, directly picked from the disc:


0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
2
3
4
5
32
34
60
61
62
63
76
8748
15156
20642
24865
33132
38565
48417
58335
68265
73425
84357
91297
94845
101423
102931
110665
116060
124613
129082
138051
146135
155247
165034
175250
179332
179355
179367
179379
179405


after the removal of the "crap" cells - the first 21 and the last three - the resulting cell elapsed time is (the same as before, but with 76 subtracted from the cell positions):

8672
15080
20566
24789
33056
38489
48341
58259
68189
73349
84281
91221
94769
101347
102855
110589
115984
124537
129006
137975
146059
155171
164958
175174
179256


By demuxing the single cells and counting their effective elapsed time, here is what comes out. In color the cells with the newly corrected chapter position, which is inconsistent respect to the original (wrong) ifo:


8671
15080
20566
24791
33059
38493
48347
58266
68198
73359
84292
91234
94783
101361
102869
110604
115999
124553
129025
137995
146081
155194
164983
175201
179283


Same results may be obtained with most of the arcoss titles all around...

Without the manual correction of the Celltimes.txt, the usage of this file in reauthoring applications leads to inaccurate chapter positions...

[bigotti5]

@President

My post was refering to Lara2. It is NTSC.

To your PAL DVD

Timemap rebuilt was no effect

Rebuild the timemap table does not alter the cell times in PGC.
This table is only used for time search, sliderplay in software players..
In your case you have IMO to rebuild the PGC (VTS_PGCITI) such as Ifoedit's "Create Ifos" function. Probably they are wrong in the VOB too, so rebuild the PGC will not work.

[President]

@President
My post was refering to Lara2. It is NTSC.
Yes, I understood. But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?
This table is only used for time search, sliderplay in software players..
Thank's for the information. I supposed just so.

In your case you have IMO to rebuild the PGC (VTS_PGCITI) such as Ifoedit's "Create Ifos" function. Probably they are wrong in the VOB too, so rebuild the PGC will not work.
It looks as VOB's error. A very interesting error. If I jumps by chapters (or menu buttons) then chapter menu pictures and movie scenes are the same on whole DVD (e.g. chapter 13 starts from correct scene and has start time 1 hour 03 minutes). But if I see the movie from previous chapter 12 (a last chapter on layer 0), then the same start scene of the chapter 13 has a 0 hour 59 minutes start time and chapter counter increased correctly to 13. But chapter 12 has correct start time and scene in any case. After full remux this time hole was corrected, but a chapter start points was shifted on this 4 minutes and links goes to wrong scenes. I find this scenes (and it's start I-frames) manually and corrected a start frames of each scenes in the celltime list with new remux (rechaptered movie in fact). Unfortunately, I find this error after I return an original DVD. Now I have a fully corrected DVD and can't give you original for analysis:-(.

[bigotti5]

If a cells and PGC time are wrong, then next/previous chapter entry points are wrong too.

IMO chapters are calculated from PTT_SRPTI -> you see "Program number" -> go to VTS_PCITI - VTS_PGCx - PGC Program map - you see "Entry cell number". This is the related cell to the PTT. This cell is accessed by the lba value from VTS_C_ADT. So wrong time does not affect chapter entry points.

But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?

What do you mean?

[President]

IMO chapters are calculated from PTT_SRPTI -> you see "Program number" -> go to VTS_PCITI - VTS_PGCx - PGC Program map - you see "Entry cell number". This is the related cell to the PTT. This cell is accessed by the lba value from VTS_C_ADT.
As I know a chapter (cell) will start play from value (sector#) contained in VTS_PGCITI -> VTS_PGC_# -> Cell_#: entry point sector.
So wrong time does not affect chapter entry points.
Yes, you're right. I was wrong. Cell/movie time (and VID/CID) is not a primary parameter. I just want to say that all factors (VID/CID, Sector#, TimeMap, Cell/Movie playtime) must be adjusted (recalculated) to it correct values (it might be as well). r0lZ understood and agreed with me without offtop discussions:-). But thank you too for your circumstantiality. You always dig to bottom. It's a good. I knew many important things from you. Thank's.

>> But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?
>What do you mean?
I mean a drop/non-drop timecode differences. At 1 hour a difference is ~3.6 sec. At 2 hour is ~7.2 sec and so on.

[r0lZ]

This discussion is very interesting! :)
I have already added the code to fix the wrong time codes in the PGC.

The internal calculations of the "Rebuild time map" function are made with the VOBU start and end presentation time (90 KHz clock). It's easy to convert the timings to frames in PAL, but not so easy with the crappy NTSC drop-frame time code format!
Currently, I divide the clock by 90000 to compute the number of seconds in PAL, and by 90090 in NTSC. Since the drop-frame time code format is somewhat weired, I'm not sure it's the right way to do, however, the result is identical with the only NTSC DVD I have (not ARccOS protected.)
If someone knows how to do the conversion exactly, I'll appreciate some help.

Anyway, I have released PgcEdit_winexe_7.4beta1.zip (http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/pgcedit/beta/PgcEdit_winexe_7.4beta1.zip). Could you test it, especially with NTSC material? Also, I wonder if it works fine with ARccOS protected DVDs.

Thanks for your help!

[President]

I have already added the code to fix the wrong time codes in the PGC.
Anyway, I have released PgcEdit_winexe_7.4beta1.zip. Could you test it, especially with NTSC material?
Hi.
Thank's for new release.
I checked a new PGCEdit release with 2 NTSC DVD which I have now (Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider 2). Unfortunately, change nothing:-(. Wrong timemap still stay in IFO's. Warning:

Time Map tables
DVD-TEXT General Name: ""
Provider ID: "MPUCODER"
Number of VTS: 1
-------------------- VTS 1 --------------------
1 VTS_TMAP tables defined in VTS_TMAPTI for 1 PGCs.

VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:57:09) Title 1 (sequential title)
1759 x 4 seconds = 1:57:16 ; ********** WARNING! **********
------------------- Summary -------------------
VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:57:09) Title 1: Wrong TMAP duration

In addition, I checked with Total Commander and OS Filecompare utility (fc.exe) a new and original IFOs (before/after timemap plugin using). All files are absolutely identical:-((. What your utility doing? Maybe you forgot to write an overpatching to IFO?

BTW, r0lZ, you placed on your homepage (videohelp) a plugin list with Timemap plugin v1.0. Now I have (downloaded early) a v1.1 (Plugins - Time map - About). What is it?
Aaaa, I see. It just a string into plugin "set version 1.1". I changed it to 1.0. Please, no penalty to me for this copyright violation:-)).

[blutach]

@r0lZ - thanks heaps for fixing my 2 little problems in this beta.

Regards

[President]

Currently, I divide the clock by 90000 to compute the number of seconds in PAL, and by 90090 in NTSC. Since the drop-frame time code format is somewhat weired, I'm not sure it's the right way to do, however, the result is identical with the only NTSC DVD I have (not ARccOS protected.)
Good idea. I verified your calculation on Tomb Raider (manually). It works.

OOPS!
I think I found an error. It seems an identification error of stream type (PAL/NTSC) or just incorrect uses a divisor (90000 or 90090). In Tomb Raider a last entry of timemap is 1759, start sector is 2236550 (see my IFOs at Lara2.zip). This sector contains a "VOBU start presentation time" is 633230329. Thus:

633230329 / 90000 = 7036 or 1:57:16 (that be indicating as "wrong" timemap).
633230329 / 90090 = 7029 or 1:57:09 (as wrote at movie playtime).

Please look this condition in your program (90000 or 90090 divisor) and check it.