HC Encoder Over CCE?

[DK]

I think it's because of the people who are frustrated about HC's bug

sorry to disagree but nobody is frustrated here and nobody could reproduce that so called bug so far

so i for one would like some kind of a proof before even thinking about the usefullness of your statements any longer

and for the record:
i have burned one of the testruns i did with hc 016 testrelease 3 last night
no matter how often i fastforwarded or played the title in different reverse-speeds i couldnt spot any such thing as a flaw

a different title with hc 016 testrelease 2 showed the very same results: no problems in reverse mode either

[Trahald]

Ive used hcenc multiple times and wouldnt have known about the bug until reading this thread (example of how often i watch a movie in reverse) i think it does excellent quality on low bitrate and prefer it over cce. i assume the risk using beta software.

per your original reply.. i think its more how you stated it than what you said. your subsequent replies were much more factual than inflamatory. also, i dont think the bug disqualifies hcenc. it can be factored into an opinion.. (just like if you were doing an operating system comparison, you would not disqualify one because it crashed occasionally.. you just take that fact into consideration)

[jdobbs]

@Trahald

Have you been able to repeat the "reverse bug"? The reason I ask is because if it is repeatable I could at least check and see if DVD-RB is the source of the problem (since it does the muxing).

@dvdbackup

Did you previously post under the name apfraats? Your style of writing etc. sure seems to match his.

[DK]

@ jdobbs

the two tested titles i talked about were done via rb
- 1.02 with hc 016 TR 3
- 1.00 rc5.1 with hc 016 TR 2

[dvdbackup]

@Trahald

Have you been able to repeat the "reverse bug"? The reason I ask is because if it is repeatable I could at least check and see if DVD-RB is the source of the problem (since it does the muxing).

@dvdbackup

Did you previously post under the name apfraats? Your style of writing etc. sure seems to match his.

Nope........

I don't even know him.., eehhh sorry her....

[dvdbackup]

Let's get down to the facts, even now I'm confused about what's happening.

1) First of all: It's about REVERSE STEPPING AT SPEEDS LOWER THEN 1 !!

So I didn't look at the FAST REVERSE .......

I made a sample of LORD OF THE RINGS, FELOOWSHIP OF THE RING.

For testing purposes I adjusted both TARGETSECTORS to the same value, getting a compression of about 66,7 % for video.

I used the same standard MPGEG matrix. I used NO AVS filters.

I made 2 DVD's.

The DVD's are FUJI DVD-RW at 4 speed.

I verfied the recordings, no read-errors.

So 2 DVD's in priciple the same except for the encoder used.

I call then HC_DVD and CCE_DVD for reference purposes.

First the testing on the Sony DVP-NS-405.

HC_DVD on the Sony
===============================================
Looked at the movie. Pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS and let it go.
RESULT: Suddenly there was a still (reverse is always producing stills) with blocks on a black background.
I let it go. The stills were correct again. Then after just a while THE COMPLETE PLAYER DID A POWER OFF !!! (don't blame me, blame Sony).
================================================

CCE_DVD on the Sony.
================================================
Looked at the movie. Pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS and let it go.
RESULT: Nice and clean playback of stills in reverse direction.
=================================================

That's strange for one thing, What has to be on a DVD to COMPLETELY POWER THE PLAYER OFF !!!
(probably something not DVD-COMPLIANT happened, and the player gets so confused it turns off as a result of an UNDOCUMENTED firmware features ;)

HC_DVD on PHILIPS DVDR-75
===================================================
Looked at the movie, pressed pause after 2 minutes. Press STEP BACKWARDS at 1/2 speed. Stills are NOT DISTURBED but something else happens.
The playback of stills in reverse is irregular, meaning the time between stills at 1/2 backwards is CHANGING a lot... Sometimes it takes relatively much longer to do 1/2 back, and sometimes there is a very quick follow up.....
Normal 1/2 speed step time is about 1 second regular.
But the HC_DVD was doing this very irregular.
No disorted picture however on this player
=====================================================

CCE_DVD on PHILIPS DVDR-75
======================================================
Looked at the movie, pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS at 1/2 speed. Stills are NOT DISTURBED but something else happens. The playback of stills in reverse is irregular, meaning the time between stills at 1/2 backwards is CHANGING a lot... Sometimes it takes relatively much longer to do 1/2 back, and sometimes there is a very quick follow up.....
Normal 1/2 speed step time is about 1 second regular.
But the HC_DVD was doing this very irregular.
No disorted picture however on this player.
=======================================================

Note: The 1/2 slow reverse of the SONY displays TWICE as MUCH stills as the PHILIPS and the interval time is very stable.

However looking at an original DVD, this DVD produced steady stills in 1/2 speed reverse, but the still-rate is only half that of the sony.

So the SONY produces 2 stills / second at 1/2 reverse (< 1 sec to be more precise)
And the PHILIPS prodiuces only 1 still / second at 1/2 reverse.

The PHILIPS is NOT steady in intervals at reverse 1/2 on both CCE and HC dvd's, but is steady on an original DVD.

The Sony, taking twice as much 'snaphots' a second, shows image disruption in reverse 1/2 speed with the HC_DVD. The PHILIPS does not.

The Sony even SHUTS DOWN reverse playing the HC_DVD, but NOT playing the CCE_DVD.


So the problem is probably related to some far too much technical aspect for me to discover.

Let people try.

HC_DVD is causing problems on the SONY. Both HC_DVD and CCE_DVD have irregular 1/2 speed reverse intervals. The tested Original DVD doens't have this problem.

Easy to say it's my Sony here.....

But I really don't believe it's the PLAYER....

All original commercial DVD's don't have problems, as the Sony is my default player to look and use for DVD's in my living room. I use it for many years already.... And these phenomenia are completely new and discovered using HC as encoder.

I tested the burned DVD_RW's each three times. 100% reproduceable.

The corruption problem and the POWER-OFF of the player happens everytime at the same spots with the HC_DVD, not with the CCE_DVD !!!

So clearly:

It's making a difference if HC is used or CCE on my Sony DVP-NS405

All backup's have irregular 1/2 speed reverse playback intervals on the PHILIPS. Originals (2 tested) don't (as far as I tested, I can do it for another evening, but I'm not planning for that).

So please forgive me if it turns out not to be an HC problem....

As far as I can see and test, using HC is causing serious problems on the SONY....

I don't know why, but I just don't trust on making backups with HC for this reason. If I would have any doubt towards my Sony DVP-NS405, I would tell, but heaving it playing for so long, this is just really weird.....

So people , if there is someone with the DVP-NS405 or a Sony player, I would like to hear from you, using HC and playing back revers 1/2 speed backwards (I always do things that are abnormal for the huge)

I play on save, not using HC, and that I regret regarding it's potential.....


Note to think about: At 1/2 reverse speed the Sony produces lots more stills per unit of real-time than the Philips does. Maybe that's why it's more critical on the Sony.......

[spyhawk]

@dvdbackup,

Really. How do you know it's a she? afraat's and your style of writing look the same. And the tone does not sound like a girl talking. An admin or mod can look at the ip address of both posters and know. I'm surprised also that afraat has not been making posts since you recently joined. Any way, if you are not really the same person, then sorry if we're mistaken.

Back to the discussion. Since you are having problem reverse playback with HC and none here don't, may I suggest you get a sizable clip that is repeatable and has problem reverse playback. Narrow it down to a sizable whole dvd structure, as if you're burning to DVD-RW. Zip it up and upload somewhere, so anyone with a fast connection and a Sony player (may not be the same model like yours, but if it's the same, that's great) can test it on their dvd player. If they have the same problem like yours, then it could be the probable cause. Otherwise, HC is not the cause. Tell us at what point in time you start having problem reversing so we can duplicate.

YouSendIt.com (http://www.yousendit.com) allows you to upload up to 1GB and 25 downloads. If you know of a better web host, then use it. For compression, use 7-Zip (www.7-zip.org) program to zip. It has better compression than WinZip and WinRar. But it's up to you if you want to use it or not.

[dvdbackup]

@dvdbackup,

Really. How do you know it's a she? afraat's and your style of writing look the same. And the tone does not sound like a girl talking. An admin or mod can look at the ip address of both posters and know. I'm surprised also that afraat has not been making posts since you recently joined. Any way, if you are not really the same person, then sorry if we're mistaken.


I don't know if it's a he or she..... That'was the point......

And even IP adresses don't tell everything.
Never heard of a ANONYOUS PROXY ???? I suppose not.
Never heard of IP sharing ? Probably not.
Never heard of Dynamically assigned IP adresses on a network ?

But that's of topic.

I have a clip ready for go.....

I use RAR to pack them togther and can send it with yousendit.com to everyone who has an email-adres.

I know about yousendit.com. If you keep on trying even over 20 times, you will finally get it send, indeed.........

No problem with that.

Now I need only a e-mail adres from someone who has this particular player.

Suppose that's easy too.......

By the way, this IP is used by about 500 different people..........


And another thought just came up...

How about the question: Is sending a clip from a movie LEGAL ???

[Observer]

@dvdbackup

Was the autogop option in HC enabled?

[dvdbackup]

@dvdbackup

Was the autogop option in HC enabled?


Nice question, I never touch the GOP-things.....

DVD-RB-PRO's setting is Default (or auto).

[jdobbs]

It would have been autoGOP then...

[Guest]

apfraats suspended 13th October.
dvdbackup joined 13th October.
And he doth protesteth too much.

Multiple registrations are a rule 14 violation. I've requested the admins to check the IP addresses.

[dvdbackup]

apfraats suspended 13th October.
dvdbackup joined 13th October.
And he doth protesteth too much.

Multiple registrations are a rule 14 violation. I've requested the admins to check the IP addresses.

Yep, be my guest.......

I think this will surely solve the HC problem.....

[spyhawk]

I don't know if it's a he or she..... That'was the point......

And even IP adresses don't tell everything.
Never heard of a ANONYOUS PROXY ???? I suppose not.
Never heard of IP sharing ? Probably not.
Never heard of Dynamically assigned IP adresses on a network ?
*long sigh* I have a feeling that this response would happen. I should not have posted in here, but I was just trying to help. Since you're trying to insult my intelligence, I know trace routing and heard of backdoor bypass. You know, there are lots of smart people here, so don't try to get on their nerves if you need help. But I admit you are a good candidate to test our limits. Last I check, blood pressure is within normal parameter.

Oh well, what's done is done. Please retake Communication 101, feel free to come back to this community upon graduation.

[gizzin]

How's about we close this thread?

[jdobbs]

I agree. This has gotten way OT and is no longer serving a purpose. Closed.