MeGUI Custom x264/AVC video profiles.

[Sharktooth]

V14: Updated CE-QuickTime profile with 5 reference frames and 1 B-Frame.

[Randall]

FYI QuickTime can do up to 2 B-Frames. I'm not sure why you experienced a jerky picture with more then 1 B-Frame, but I haven't experienced this problem at all yet using 2 B-Frames.

[quake74]

Ok, I reinstalled everything and maybe the slowdowns are gone, but I am only doing tests on trailers so it takes just 5 mins to encode them anyway (and it doesn't have time to go below 20fps).
I tested the results from megui against the ones with pspvideo9 (well, ffmpeg) using http://compression.ru/video/quality_measure/perceptual_video_quality_tool_en.html
comparing 256kbps and 384kbps for both encoders. The bframes do improve the picture: using the Madagascar (HD) trailer I can recognize the megui one but the 384 from ffmpeg is still better than the 256 from megui. I tried also with the Doom trailer, but it's a lot harder to spot the differences. The differences are visible on the psp screen as well, but you need to know where to look.

I could try increasing the bframes or using pyramid, but if somebody else confirms they do not work, I'd rather not waste my time..

[puffpio]

2nd pass taking 3 hours for a 30 min clip w/ x264 seems reasonable depending on your cpu speed and what settings used

a 45 min clip using sharktooth's hq-insane profile takes about 23 hours for the 2nd and 3rd pass each...12 hours on the first pass (athlon xp 3000+)... (using tdeint + ff3dfilter)
without any avisynth filters (except deinterlace) it would take abuot 3 hours on the first pass and 14-15 hours on the second and third passes each.

[Sharktooth]

FYI QuickTime can do up to 2 B-Frames. I'm not sure why you experienced a jerky picture with more then 1 B-Frame, but I haven't experienced this problem at all yet using 2 B-Frames.
I know, but i tried it by myself (reinstalling CrapTime 7.03) and i experienced the same "skippy" behaviour.
Maybe "Adaptive B.frames" kicked in in your encodes and limited the b.frames number...

[Backflip]

In terms of Xbox, it's still a little hit & miss as to what you can expect to be able to play and not.

With normal settings @ 640x272 resolution playback there were dropped frames on the encode I did, if I had enabled CABAC and Loop.. created in a x264 + 2CH AC3 *MKV* file. Keeping in mind that was for the particular Star Wars Nostalgia - slow / fast action teaser trailer. Even Limobar had the same dropped frames. However, Limobar requested I upload the Nostalgia teaser (from Star Wars Episode 3) to him so he could do other tests and report back I assumed. He's since encoded the teaser using Nero AVC with CABAC and deblocking options enabled @ 720x304 res @ 2Mbit/s. He says this plays ok on his Xbox. I can't play it without dropped frames on mine, even with adjusted Cache settings.

I was actually waiting for Limobar to give the details of his tests, but alas he hasn't replied which is disappointing. Another agenda he has perhaps. I did suggest he could post his findings because it'd be helpful, but ah well.

[bond]

I've noticed a few wierd things going on with Sharktooth's x264 build 381.
It seems that after about 1 hour of encoding, (on any pass without 'turbo' turned on)
the fps just begins to slow down. I'd call it a memory leak, except it isn't. Its like a processor leak, if such a thing exists.
It doesn't even matter what the source is, anime or 'real' video. Or how long it is, ~30mins or ~60 mins. Just after 1 hour of encoding (not one hour of source, mind you), the fps starts dropping from about 7 fps until it reaches something like .96 fps. It would probably drop even further if it weren't for the encode being done.
I've only noticed this problem since I upgraded to Sharktooth's build 381. The earlier one worked just fine.
Is this a known issue? (am I in the right thread?)1) this doesnt belong to this thread
2) you already posted exactly the same in the x264 dev thread (where it belongs), so no need to doublepost

striked

[quake74]

@darkfoon: I had the same problem (see my post above) but I'm doing tests with small samples, so maybe it's gone, or maybe not.

Need help from PSP people: I encoded the Madsagascar trailer (the happy birthday songs cracks me up everytime) with 3 ref (and 2 bframes) or using pyramid bframes, and they don't play ("This video cannot be played.") but using mixed reference (with 2ref 2bfr) or 3bf (and 2 ref) produces videos which are playabale on my PSP (firmware 2.0). Can anybody else confirm this? Or it's just they x264 does not actually uses mixed ref or 3bframes in this particular encode?

Edit: More tests (this time with the Doom trailer): I can use 3bf and mixed ref at the same time, and also 4bframes (with 2ref) works for me.

[bond]

Need help from PSP people: I encoded the Madsagascar trailer (the happy birthday songs cracks me up everytime) with 3 ref (and 2 bframes) or using pyramid bframes, and they don't play ("This video cannot be played.") but using mixed reference (with 2ref 2bfr) or 3bf (and 2 ref) produces videos which are playabale on my PSP (firmware 2.0). Can anybody else confirm this? Or it's just they x264 does not actually uses mixed ref or 3bframes in this particular encode?did you use sharktooth's psp profile?

[quake74]

did you use sharktooth's psp profile?

Yeah, his latest. I only changed the parameters I mentioned. So, when I say 3bframes, I mean auto 2pass with turbo, 256kbps, 250keyframe,2ref no mixed, 3bframes adapt no pyr, deblock filter, cabac, subpixel 6 rdo slow, weight predic, chroma me, main profile (I4x4 P4x4 P8x8 B8x8), rdo for bframes.

[bond]

Yeah, his latest. I only changed the parameters I mentioned.well his profile is made for ensuring that playback on the psp works. if you change the parameters you shouldnt be surprised that it suddenly doesnt work...

[quake74]

well his profile is made for ensuring that playback on the psp works. if you change the parameters you shouldnt be surprised that it suddenly doesnt work...

I'm not surprised that some options do not work, I am surprised that some options (like 4 bframes) DO work. If we get confirmation that this is indeed true for other psp and video as well, then sharktooth could update his profile.

[Sharktooth]

it's likely you had "adaptive" checked and 4 b-frames were never used.
to see if it works uncheck adaptive b-frames and re-encode with 4 b-frames.

[quake74]

4 b-frames doensnt work. it's likely you had "adaptive" checked and 4 b-frames were never used.

Yes, I was using the adaptive bframes (along with 2ref frames but no mixd ref)
but I still think it has 4 bframes in there. The only way I know of counting the bframes is opening the file in MPC and let ffmpeg print the frame type on the OSD and go frame by frame. I looks to me that around frame 474-477 and around 1078-1081 I have seen two sequences of 4 bframes. The file is http://rapidshare.de/files/8726733/maq10302.mp4.html

[Sharktooth]

remember if you use the standard b.frame bias and adaptive b.frame, x264 rarely uses more than 3 b.frames.
however i'm downloading your clip an will check it.

EDIT: Yes, the clip has indeed 4 b-frames sequences. Are you sure you do not experience frame skips during playback?
however the psnr gain moving from 3 to 4 bframes is not significative and maybe negative.

[quake74]

remember if you use the standard b.frame bias and adaptive b.frame, x264 rarely uses more than 3 b.frames.
however i'm downloading your clip an will check it.

EDIT: Yes, the clip has indeed 4 b-frames sequences. Are you sure you do not experience frame skips during playback?
however the psnr gain moving from 3 to 4 bframes is not significative and maybe negative.

No, I'm not sure that I do not experience frame skips: the screen is small, I used changefps(29.97), and I am rather tired ;). You can download the orginal trailer from http://trailers.divx.com/Universal/Doom_HD.zip and check yourself if you want. Anyway, I'd rather have opinions from other people. Moreover, can you (or anybody else) confirm that 2refs and 3bframes with mixed refs works? (If you repaired your psp ;) )

[Sharktooth]

No, still unrepaired.

[bond]

Yes, I was using the adaptive bframes (along with 2ref frames but no mixd ref)
but I still think it has 4 bframes in there. The only way I know of counting the bframes is opening the file in MPC and let ffmpeg print the frame type on the OSD and go frame by frame. I looks to me that around frame 474-477 and around 1078-1081 I have seen two sequences of 4 bframes. The file is http://rapidshare.de/files/8726733/maq10302.mp4.htmli get jumpy playback with this sample (not very often, but its there)

sharktooth: ?

[Sharktooth]

@bond: my PSP is still broken so i cannot do tests for PSPs.

[bond]

@bond: my PSP is still broken so i cannot do tests for PSPs.i meant do you get jumpiness on your pc?

[Sharktooth]

oh.. i thought you were trying on a PSP :)
i didnt notice it.. but ill deeply check it later.

EDIT: does not "jump" here...

[ShawnFumo]

First, thanks to Sharktooth so much for these profiles! It helps so much, because of the crazy number of options the codec has. :)

A quick question to anyone on CE-Mainprofile and Quicktime. It says in the first post that CE-Mainprofile is not compatible, but I just encoded something using it and it played it in QTPlayer successfully (7.0.2). Should I be safe, or should I be worried about it not playing on Macs for instance? Mainprofile seems like better quality, so it'd be neat to be able to use that instead of CE-QT if I can.

It just seems strange to me that the profile specifically says it isn't compatible when my first try with it was fine. Maybe I just got lucky?

Shawn

[Selur]

maybe I overlooked it,..

Is there a table/list/.. that shows what features/settings are en-/disabled / used in the profiles? (something like a overview ?)

Cu Selur

Ps.: I know I could examine the xml files,.. a little overview would be nice.

[Backflip]

Ok, after further concentrated effort I can confirm the Xbox can decode atleast 720x304 resolution Nero AVC + 2CH AC3 inside an MKV file. Settings used:

(GENERAL SETTINGS)
Decision quality: High Quality (maximum)
Maximum vector range: -512 to 511.75
Maximum reference frames: 3
Maximum GOP size: 300
Maximum B-frames: 3

(ENCODING TOOLS)
CABAC: Yes
Bidirectional prediction: Yes
Macroblock partitions: No
Weighted prediction: No
Deblocking: Yes (=0)

(VISUAL ENHANCEMENTS)
Source material: Chroma optimization
Psycho-visual enhancements: Disabled

What would be the equivalent to all of these settings^ in x264? Maybe it would be possible to play the same file 720x304 resolution x264 if similar settings were used.

Additionally it is impotant to use these cache settings for smooth playback:

Video/Audio/DVD Cache - harddisk 4096 KB
Video Cache - DVDRom 8192 KB
Audio Cache - DVDRom 256 KB
DVD Cache - DVDRom 4096 KB

ALL OTHER PARAMETERS 0 KB

And also, this is very important -- enable Smoothed A/V synchronization. It is disabled by default.

[Sharktooth]

... almost the settings you can find in the xbox low-res profile except macroblock partitions and weighted prediction

[Sharktooth]

V15:
updated AE-Maxquality, CQ-ASP_Q2 (both), HQ-Insane, HQ-Slowest and PD-Xbox (both) with No Fast P Skip option.

[Backflip]

... almost the settings you can find in the xbox low-res profile except macroblock partitions and weighted prediction

Do you think a file I make using 720x304 minus the macroblock and weighted prediction will work on the Xbox? - edit: didn't work* :(

I digress a bit, but I've noticed my source has got deliberate grain, which looks to me is getting rather smooth and noticeably blocky in others. Deblocking doesn't have this effect does it? Interestingly I noticed in the Nero AVC encode, that Limobar did, the detail is kept in that particular part grainy part of the video. It's significantly closer to the original I believe. Both files used about the same encoding settings. - edit: jumped the gun with this comment, x264 looks fine at similar encoding settings as Nero.

*Ok, I tried again to encode at 720x304. I used PD-Xbox_LoRes, but dropped Weighted Prediction. I'm not sure where the Macroblock option is though. I also changed Minimum Quantizer to 14 to keep my bitrate at around 1950kbps+. Muxed with AC3 in an MKV after. Frame rate is like 10-17 fps and there are dropped frames on Xbox.

[Sharktooth]

Well, Xbox cant do miracles... :(

[asdfsauce]

Thanks Sharktooth, very helpful. ^^

[Sharktooth]

V16: fixed CQ-ASP_Q2_equiv. Had quantizer 26 instead of 18 (dont ask me why!).

[Backflip]

Well, Xbox cant do miracles...

That's the thing though, why is it possible to be able to play the Nero AVC material at 720x304 (with very good quality). This is my objective -- to play x264 + AC3 *MKV* at similar quality as the Nero AVC which was encoded and with a 720x304 resolution.

[Sharktooth]

disable all macroblock options (set to "none") and try again.

[quake74]

Hi Sharktooth, sorry for bothering you and I don't know how much it matters from the quality point of view, but in your latest (v16) profiles you still have "no mixed ref" and 2 bframes, but it seems to me (on three different trailers) that mixed ref and 3 bframes is safe (let's just forget about 4 bframes just to be on the safe side). I must confess that I haven't heard from anybody else. Now I'm trying with a 24mins episode of a sitcom (man x264 is slow on my pentium m 1.83ghz).

EDIT: I forgot to mention I was talking about the PSP profile.

[Sharktooth]

well.. adding mixed refs it will be even slower :)
however i'll update in the next version (v17).

[Sharktooth]

V17: updated PD-PSP profile with mixed-refs and 3-bframes.

[Sharktooth]

maybe I overlooked it,..

Is there a table/list/.. that shows what features/settings are en-/disabled / used in the profiles? (something like a overview ?)

Cu Selur

Ps.: I know I could examine the xml files,.. a little overview would be nice.
Sorry it's still in my "todo" list.

[Sharktooth]

V18: Removed No-Fast-PSkip from profiles coz it slows encoding and since the x264 Rev386 should fix the problem in most cases without No-Fast-PSkip.

[nrx][Natas]

@quake74: Good to read you can encode again.

So, i don't really know what the status of the PSP-Profile and 4 B-Frames thing is but i tested it and it works. Based Sharktooths PSP profile.

[Caroliano]

Acording to bond's tests (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=748863#post748863), you will make the probeskip defaut for all profiles? I still think that in the more insane profiles the nofastpskip option can remain.

[Sharktooth]

I was thinking the same thing...

[Sharktooth]

V19: Re-added no-fast-pskip for the HQ-Insane and AE-Maxquality profiles.

[Sharktooth]

[Natas']@quake74: Good to read you can encode again.

So, i don't really know what the status of the PSP-Profile and 4 B-Frames thing is but i tested it and it works. Based Sharktooths PSP profile.
From v17 the PSP profile has 3 b-frames and mixed references enabled.
4 b-frames is not necessary because it doesnt help rising the quality.

[Chainmax]

I just noticed that the AE-Maxquality profile has automated 3-pass and turbo enabled, does that mean that the issue is solved now?

[Sharktooth]

everything should be working.

[Chainmax]

Thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this :).

[Chainmax]

AE-MaxQuality doesn't seem to have the "no fast p-skip" option enabled in v19.

[Sharktooth]

yeah.. you're right... both have no-fast-pskid disabled...
i was sure as hell i updated them...

well... v19a contains the fixes.

[Chainmax]

I just made an encode with v19 with AE-Maxquality and deblocking 0/0, does having the no-fast-pskip option disabled affect the quality in any way on rev387?

[Sharktooth]

yep, but it greatly depends on the source, no-fast-pskip should fix the blue sky and similar blocking issues.

[Chainmax]

Nah, a clip I was encoding earlier showed some extremely erratic motion and I wanted to know if that was caused by the lack of this option. Thanks for clearing that up for me.