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Stan64
4th May 2004, 22:56
Ok, now I know I'm lazy. I dont know anything about drivers and so on. I can't do anything with programming except xhtml and that's not anything special. Anyway here is the point:

There are people who do new Voodoo drivers. They surely knows how to rewrite alot of things. Then there should be a possibility to rewrite all drivers that don't support PAL60. And make all cards work with it.

This is kinda a request to some people who knows what they are dealing with. I don't expect an answer though. I have a Asus Radeon 9800XT that don't supprt PAL60. It is the PAL version though. -_-

mustardman
5th May 2004, 03:36
May I suggest you try to capture NTSC, although you may end up with B/W picture. It is possible that a S-video feed to the card may help, but unlikely. PAL 60 has NTSC timing (reduced lines, higher frame rate) only the colour signal is tampered with.

Alternately, get a genuine NTSC player.

Stan64
5th May 2004, 09:13
No, that is not an option. I'm capturing from my PAL GameCube. Is PAL60 really tempered? I doubt that. If you throw some tech docs at me I will believe you. =)

Arachnotron
5th May 2004, 16:54
PAL-60 is NTSC with the chroma part converted to PAL (both encoding and subcarrier frequency, 4.43 MHz). All timing remains NTSC.

All chips I have seen so far can do this, but most drivers won't let you.

PAL-60 capable cards up untill now:

- BT878 with BTWincap, but this needs additional tweaking with BTtweak because of a timing error;
- SAA7134 based cards (works very well)
- some ATI AIW models (don't know which)

So the cheapest solution apart from waiting for new drivers would be to buy a Philips SAA7134 based TV card and use that. Terratec and Asus both make one. Expect about EUR 60.

Stan64
5th May 2004, 20:08
Do those cards support 720x576? (full PAL)

Arachnotron
5th May 2004, 21:28
I don't know about the ATI, but both the BT878 and the SAA7134 based ones do.
the BT can do 768x576, the SAA 720x576.

Note however that that won't give you correct aspect ratio if your target is DVD. The PAL capture windows are 52 Ás and 52.14 Ás resp.

I purchased a terratec especially for PAL60 work after finding out the CX23881 based card I bought first would not do it :(

Stan64
7th May 2004, 00:12
Ok. I got it. But which cards are BT then? Any brands. O_O

Arachnotron
7th May 2004, 08:49
Ok. I got it. But which cards are BT then? Any brands. O_O

Personally, I would go for a SAA if PAL60 is your aim (I did after owning a BT already), but if you want a BT card, there is an extensive list here (http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/supportedcards.html)

BTtweak is not exactly easy or stable to work with, while the PAL60 mode of the SAA based cards is spot-on. When transferring tape using a S-VHS VCR, I only get two lines of crap at the bottom.

Also, BTtweak limits you to using vdub for capping, which can be problematic.

Stan64
10th May 2004, 10:14
Ok, but I use vdub_sync for capturing. Do you have a list of SAA cards then?

scharfis_brain
10th May 2004, 10:25
Also, BTtweak limits you to using vdub for capping, which can be problematic.

I do not understand this.

What does Bttweak exactly limit in VDub usage?

I've no problems with it.

The only problem on true PAL (50Hz) is, that it swaps U and V, thus all people getting blue skin.
But this isn't a problem, because I always use AVISynth for postprocessing.

Arachnotron
10th May 2004, 10:30
What does Bttweak exactly limit in VDub usage?

No, I mean BTtweak is a vdub add-on, which probably wont help you if you want to use another capping program. So if you must use BTTweak, you also have to use vdub.

The only problem on true PAL (50Hz) is, that it swaps U and V, thus all people getting blue skin.
But this isn't a problem, because I always use AVISynth for postprocessing.

Does BTTweak do this? Is it broken?

scharfis_brain
10th May 2004, 10:40
Does BTTweak do this? Is it broken?

It does seem so.

I am using a bt878 card with latest Btwincap drivers.

Everytime, I set up bttweak, the color channels swaps.

If I close bttweak, the colors turn right again, but the other tweaked parameters go to defaults, too.
THis means I have to leave bttweak opened all the time, to hold the tweaked settings while capping.

Arachnotron
10th May 2004, 10:56
@stan64

Ok, but I use vdub_sync for capturing. Do you have a list of SAA cards then?

Missed that one.

I had some problems capping with vdub and the saa, I use virtualvcr now.
I did need a registry hack to get the saa working at all, forgot which. I posted it earlier in this forum, try a search.


SAA7134 cards:
Terratec Cinergy TV 400 / 600
Asus TV card
Flyvideo 3000
list at:
http://www.chris-tv.com/cards.html

Stan64
5th September 2004, 15:06
Ok, I got the Terratec Cinergy 600. But it says in:

Virtual VCR -> Video -> Device Settings - SAA7133 Audio Options

Is that ok? Do I get a worse end-result? Do it have the same Capture width in Ás as the 400 card with SAA7134?

Arachnotron
5th September 2004, 22:31
Is that ok? Do I get a worse end-result? Do it have the same Capture width in Ás as the 400 card with SAA7134?

It looks like the SAA7133 is just a SAA713x version for use with NTSC tuners with american/japanese stereo TV sound decoding, so probably it uses the same drivers for the video part.

All the differences between the two have to do with sound decoding.

see here (http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/literature/9397/75010471.pdf)

But if you want to be sure, just test it yourself. See the capture guide for the procedure.

Stan64
6th September 2004, 09:53
I have a DVD-burner. But I don't have a dvd player with s-video out. I could route it from my graphics card to my tv-card though. Is that wise?

Are there any settings I have to think of? Resolution wise and so on if I drag svhs from my graphics card to my capture card?

Arachnotron
6th September 2004, 10:27
I could route it from my graphics card to my tv-card though. Is that wise? No :)

A software DVD player going through a PC graphics card does all kinds of resizing and filtering, so you never really now what comes out the TV out.

Does your DVD player do component video? If so you could perhaps connect the Y out to the composite in of the capcard. The picture would be black and white, but that does not matter in this case.

Stan64
6th September 2004, 11:15
Ok, I will say it in another way then.

"But I don't have a dvd player at all."

There are two ways, I can lend a ps2 or xbox from my job. Or I could assume that it has the same capture width. Or I can assume now for this video. And borrow one as soon as I can.

Arachnotron
6th September 2004, 12:49
There are two ways, I can lend a ps2 or xbox from my job. Or I could assume that it has the same capture width. Or I can assume now for this video. And borrow one as soon as I can.

Those two are also software players. Just assume the area is 704 pixels wide and leave at at that.

It might pe possible to read the registers directly using dscalers regspy. I'll look into that, but it will take a few days.

Stan64
6th September 2004, 17:08
704?

52.15 * 14.7692 = 770

Arachnotron
6th September 2004, 18:15
Sorry. I mean 704 dvd pixels when capping the test dvd.

Stan64
6th September 2004, 18:19
Oh. =) Hmm maybe I can lend a real dvd from work. =D

I'm out of questions now. Thanks.