MeGUI x264 presets.

[Sharktooth]

apple TV supports peaks up to 12mbps and a sustained rate of 5mbps.
as for PSP i simply dont trust sony. they pissed me off for far too long. 10mbps and 3 bframes will be ok for such a POC... 25mbps will break the L3 compliance...
update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch appears...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.

[gav1577]

Hi i have a question about the avchd and bluray profiles why do they both have --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 in them is there any particular reason for this i mean any benefit over standard default values ?
Thanks

Has anyone a answer to my question? Thanks

[Sharktooth]

more etherogeneous quants distribuition.
that means less visual difference between frametypes since TVs are usually overrbright and that may expose some artifacting that wont be visible in the correct viewing conditons.
the obvious counterpart is a small overall quality hit but that is compensated from the above situation. if you're targeting a well calibrated device you should consider using a PC as player with a good Display/TV and then use the DXVA or the Unrestricted presets.

[rack04]

update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.

Is this also true for standalone profiles, more specifically blu-ray?

[Sharktooth]

standalones presets never had b-pyramid enabled expecially the blu-ray presets.

[gav1577]

more etherogeneous quants distribuition.
that means less visual difference between frametypes since TVs are usually overrbright and that may expose some artifacting that wont be visible in the correct viewing conditons.
the obvious counterpart is a small overall quality hit but that is compensated from the above situation. if you're targeting a well calibrated device you should consider using a PC as player with a good Display/TV and then use the DXVA or the Unrestricted presets.

Thanks for the info :)

[Sharktooth]

ok, i think i can publish the presets in the megui autoupdate unless there are some other wrong settings.
please test everything you can and if you find any (expecially HW) compatibility problems please repot back.

[Sem]

does the Xbox/PS3 profile (v62) provide the best possible quality that's compatible with a PS3

or does it just produce standard/average quality that's just guaranteed to work with the ps3

[Sharktooth]

Just wonder: not tired yet of bashing "M$", especially for things you should obviously blame your own incompetence?
nope. i lost all files from a certain date on coz of a rare, critiacal but never fixed fNTFS bug. DAMN M$.
plase note, before posing read the forum rules AND dont blow air thru your mouth unless:
1) you know what you're talking about
2) concerns you (are you a MivcroSux employee? uh... i think not - just a fanboy if my memory serves well...)
3) you have something usefull to say

all those conditions were not met so, please refrain from posting at least until you install a brain into your head.
in the meanwhile if you dont know what to do, go play with WMP, Vista, the crappy VC-1 and all their gazillion problems.
thank you... drive thru.

[Sharktooth]

does the Xbox/PS3 profile (v62) provide the best possible quality that's compatible with a PS3

or does it just produce standard/average quality that's just guaranteed to work with the ps3
very good-"near best" quality without using insane encoder settings otherwise it will take ages to encode...

[Sharktooth]

So what would be the lowest common denominator for profiles like PSP, iPod, iPhone, etc? Assuming I want to encode once and play it everywhere. Of course, it would have to be playable on bigger devices such as the PS3, but I assume that's more or less guaranteed, right?
i think the iPod preset is the lowest common... however i dont recommend that coz of FPS and resolution restrictions...

[Sem]

ok thanks

[tetsuo55]

apple TV supports peaks up to 12mbps and a sustained rate of 5mbps.
as for PSP i simply dont trust sony. they pissed me off for far too long. 10mbps and 3 bframes will be ok for such a POC... 25mbps will break the L3 compliance...
update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch appears...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.


I changed the requirements for b-pyramids in my thread too, and i also wanted to suggest you completely remove them until they are fixed.

Thanks for following the advice though, thanks to the discussion it lit up we found not 1 but 2 bugs with the b-pyramids :thanks:

[Sharktooth]

i alredy (v62) left b-pyramids enabled ONLY in unrestricted presets.
software decoders should have no problems with it.

[Sharktooth]

presets are now final. they're in megui autoupdate.
to avoid confusion delete the old ones before importing the new ones.

[Octo-puss]

I deleted all the preset files and after updating and restarting I got some kind of message about profiles not being able to be loaded (though I could select them).
After closing and restarting I get this popup:

System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at MeGUI.OSInfo.GetMOStuff(String queryObject)

MeGUI starts normally after clicking ok.

[Sharktooth]

yes, that was due to the removal of LMP4 encoder in the newer megui version. everything should be ok and working.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: v65.

[rica]

Sharktooth; first of all thanks a lot for your hard work!

Do you think it might not be a bad idea to make interlaced DXVA presets since most of the HDTV broadcast is interlaced (at least in Europe)?

And PV2 hard/soft owners can easily watch those re-encoded h264 files in DXVA decoding+deinterlacing mode which created by interlaced DXVA profiles.

I think the file lenght of the created files will be decreased while 1088i=544p.

Hoping to get any - or + response from shark,
thanks for the new updates btw.

[JarrettH]

Thanks for the continual updates. I have been worried about your health :)

[Sharktooth]

my healt is slowlingly getting worse but at least i partially recovered part of my left eye functionality. so, yes, i can see better now. however i cant stress my sight too much...

@rica: if there is something i really hate, it's interlacing... i firmly think it must die as soon as possible.

[rica]

@rica: if there is something i really hate, it's interlacing... i firmly think it must die as soon as possible.

:thanks:

take care.

[poisondeathray]

For the x264 profiles v65, the Standalone-Xbox_HiRes profile has the enable deblocking box unchecked (the LoRes one is checked, so I think it's just a simple mistake not a compatibility issue?)

[Sharktooth]

nope. it should be lilke that or the xbox wont manage to play the file. it has a slow processor.
note: that preset is for the first xbox ... not the x360...

[BlackPrince]

Superb work Shark. :)

Is it also compatible with StaxRip, or only megui ?

[Sharktooth]

dunno... it's easy to parse and import megui profiles. i dont know if staxrip uses them though.

[Deinorius]

@BlackPrince
Stax said something he would implement kind of importing presets. Up to this time you need to set every preset (or at least the ones you use) for yourself.

But I'm sure he will implement the new presets in a new beta/release.

[Seraphic-]

Was looking over the new presets and this post, but wanted to get some more information on DXVA.

Has video card DXVA assisted playback be supported for awhile now or has it really only come standard recently?
Since I'm encoding for internet distribution, I am wondering how many users would be able to take advantage the feature.

[tetsuo55]

Was looking over the new presets and this post, but wanted to get some more information on DXVA.

Has video card DXVA assisted playback be supported for awhile now or has it really only come standard recently?
Since I'm encoding for internet distribution, I am wondering how many users would be able to take advantage the feature.

The DXVA profiles will create a file guaranteed to work on any DXVA decoder. The file will also work on any Software decoder so its win-win. However the stream might not work on all standalone players like blu-ray players.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: v66.

[chaojenlin]

if i want to encode one movie and let my eeepc can play it through kmplayer, which preset is the best for me?

regard

[Octo-puss]

Not sure if it has anything to do with the presets, but after doing regular update and importing some presets, I get this:

[dant3s]

Hello, I read carefully all threads about new profiles including "dxva" capability. I used until today the old profiles, particulary HD-Insane. After update & reading, I guessed equivalent one in new profile was "DXVA-HD-Insane", but I realized it was not configured in <unrestricted avc level>.
My knowledges are very restricted, but my question is:
Which new profile preset will be equivalent with the old one "HD-Insane", without dxva of course, I don't need it to take advantage for instance.
Thanks a lot for your work. (anf for your reply :p)

[poisondeathray]

Which new profile preset will be equivalent with the old one "HD-Insane", without dxva of course, I don't need it to take advantage for instance.
Thanks a lot for your work. (anf for your reply :p)

I believe "Unrestricted 2pass Insane" would correspond to the old "HD-Insane"

[nawat]

Thank you for your hard work, Sharktooth. Without your profiles, I would be more or less blind on h264 encoding.

By the way, I have one question regarding your new profiles. I used to encode with HQ-Insane and I got around 4.5 fps with my E6420@3.2GHz. However, when I moved to Unrestricted 2pass Insane, the speed dropped to almost 1 fps. Recently, I just bought a Q6600 and with it, the rate is now around 1.6 fps at stock speed (which still should be faster than E6420@3.2GHz). The question is, if the settings for HQ-Insane are maxed out, how could the new Unrestricted 2pass Insane take more time. Is it more maxed out somehow?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

PS. Oh, I have 2 questions after all. Here is the other one. I would like to encode animes to watch on my PSP. Can anything be optimized on the Device-PSP so that it is more efficient when encoding animations? And how are the Anime_Toons profiles optimized for encoding animations?

[elguaxo]

HQ-Insane was using --me umh --merange 16 (I think) and Unrestricted 2pass Insane is using --me tesa --merange 32. There are other small differences, but the ones I mentioned are the ones eating all those fps ;)

[dant3s]

I believe "Unrestricted 2pass Insane" would correspond to the old "HD-Insane"

Thanks a lot ;)

[nawat]

HQ-Insane was using --me umh --merange 16 (I think) and Unrestricted 2pass Insane is using --me tesa --merange 32. There are other small differences, but the ones I mentioned are the ones eating all those fps ;)

Thanks. So it is more insane after all... Maybe I should switch to HQ since it is TOO insane.

[Octo-puss]

I was wondering, why are there no non-DXVA HD presets?

[dant3s]

After some encoding tests, I obtained different encoding times (fps/s) according 2 presets, "x264: Unrestricted 2pass HQ" or "x264: Unrestricted 2pass Insane".
for "HQ" one, I obtained 3.5 fps/s ,and for "Insane" one 0.3 fps/s lol ^^ it's a great difference !
I asked for myself if we can find a preset between these ones, provided encoding speed/time to be faster than Insane (and surely slower than HQ).
I'm sure it's possible, but which parameters could be modified in this case ?
My knowledges are still basic, but it could be achieved by changing (for HQ preset) :
-> "number of reference frames " from 5 to 10
-> "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

I'm right or wrong ?
Thanks for your lights ;)

[Dark Eiri]

The Unrestricted - HQ would be equivalent to the old HQ-Slow or HQ-Slowest?

[saint-francis]

I was wondering, why are there no non-DXVA HD presets?

I think you misunderstand. The "HD" in the HD DXVA presets. The emphasis is on the DXVA and not the HD. It is just settings that will be hardware compatible with 1080p. You can use any of the presets you like with any resolution you like.

[saint-francis]

After some encoding tests, I obtained different encoding times (fps/s) according 2 presets, "x264: Unrestricted 2pass HQ" or "x264: Unrestricted 2pass Insane".
for "HQ" one, I obtained 3.5 fps/s ,and for "Insane" one 0.3 fps/s lol ^^ it's a great difference !
I asked for myself if we can find a preset between these ones, provided encoding speed/time to be faster than Insane (and surely slower than HQ).
I'm sure it's possible, but which parameters could be modified in this case ?
My knowledges are still basic, but it could be achieved by changing (for HQ preset) :
-> "number of reference frames " from 5 to 10
-> "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

I'm right or wrong ?
Thanks for your lights ;)

You could try raising bframes and ref frames. And you might want to also change "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

The Unrestricted - HQ would be equivalent to the old HQ-Slow or HQ-Slowest?

No. There are differences between all three of them.

[dant3s]

Merci Saint-Francis :)
In fact, my worry is about output file quality. I'm sure that encoding time will be longer with ref frames=10 & subpixel refinement.
I perform some tests, but I would reach a nice combination between encoding time / quality, with the old presets reference.

PS: will "No Fast P-skip" affect encoding time ?

[JarrettH]

You should try Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ if you're after overall quality. I used to use 2 pass trying to target sizes, but it only ended up giving lesser and highly variable quality.
I end up with smaller and better looking files than I would have got trying to target a 2 pass at 1.4gb or something decent.

Here's a few: Lost Highway (1.27gb), There Will Be Blood (2.25gb), Dark City (1.05gb) all with AC3 audio.

I think There Will Be Blood came out the largest not due to its length, but because of the excellent source!

[dant3s]

You should try Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ if you're after overall quality. I used to use 2 pass trying to target sizes, but it only ended up giving lesser and highly variable quality.
I end up with smaller and better looking files than I would have got trying to target a 2 pass at 1.4gb or something decent.

Here's a few: Lost Highway (1.27gb), There Will Be Blood (2.25gb), Dark City (1.05gb) all with AC3 audio.

I think There Will Be Blood came out the largest not due to its length, but because of the excellent source!

I believe in target file size and VBR encoding.
Thanks for your help ;)

[Octo-puss]

I think you misunderstand. The "HD" in the HD DXVA presets. The emphasis is on the DXVA and not the HD. It is just settings that will be hardware compatible with 1080p. You can use any of the presets you like with any resolution you like.

Oh I see! What exactly is hardware 1080p compatible? I thought compatibility would only be an issue for some desktop players or so?

[Dark Eiri]

No. There are differences between all three of them.

Yes, yes, but the quality outputted will be comparable to which one?

[dirk362]

Overall, is the aim of x264_dp_ Unrestricted 2pass Insane.xml to get the true best quality with a fixed size 2-pass ?

Having spent some time performing literally dozens of comparisons of a reflective chapter of an HD-DVD with parameter adjustments, and "to the human eye" comparisons of output, can I ask what is most likely a series of stupid question...

Within the Unrestricted profiles of HQ and Insane we have 6 parameters to compare

Parameter HQ Insane
NbBframes 4 16
noFastPSkip false true
NbRefFrames 5 16
SubPelRefinement 5 6
MeType 2 4
MeRange 16 32

So my questions are:-


Why not just set B-Frames to 16 in all cases as the encoder will dynamically adjust anyway and only use what it needs ?
Does noFastPSkip add to encoding time ? If not, then why not always set to true in HQ and Insane ?
I'd always thought more than 5 Ref Frames generated little or no benefit for quality for anything other than large repetition within the frame (e.g. animation). Normal movies won't get much if any benefit from values higher than 5. What benefit will more Ref Frames give on quality vs the encoding time ?
If going for Insane, why not use subme of 7, or is the belief that 7 over 6 adds little to quality but significantly affects encode time (I've noted that using 7 does slow the whole process quite significantly) ?
Using ME of ESA seems of limited use as its massively slower than UMH, and most people really can't see the difference when taking into account other parameters we're adjusting.
MERange seems to be incredibly useful to improve quality to human eye as it allows more pixels to be checked for motion, but it does add significantly to encode time. I've done some encodes using 32 and 64, and 64 seems much better in overall 2-pass quality, but does add to encode time.

So, if the aim is to get best quality in fixed size 2-pass, I'd wonder whether people would find it better to increase MERange, but decrease ME ?

My own personal experience, and in no way to deflect from the truly exceptional work to generate these profiles, would be to use (for Insane encodes):-

<NbBframes>16</NbBframes>
<noFastPSkip>true</noFastPSkip>
<NbRefFrames>5</NbRefFrames>
<SubPelRefinement>7</SubPelRefinement>
<METype>3</METype>
<MERange>64</MERange>
<VBVBufferSize>0</VBVBufferSize>
<VBVMaxBitrate>0</VBVMaxBitrate>
<DeadZoneInter>6</DeadZoneInter>
<DeadZoneIntra>4</DeadZoneIntra>

I find deblock 1:0:0 with adjusted deadzones is preferable to deblock 1:-1:-1 as this has a tendancy to introduce blocks on HD content when using 21,11 deadzones)

Insane encodes are going to take on average twice as long as HQ encodes when using subme=7 and merange=64 as there is a lot more to calculate against. But you will always get a better quality output (in my experience).

[Avenger007]

Overall, is the aim of x264_dp_ Unrestricted 2pass Insane.xml to get the true best quality with a fixed size 2-pass ?
Those are all just profiles - predefined settings fed to x264. They can in no way guarantee "true best quality" for all the sources you use.
Those two profiles generally give "best quality" with regard to the internal metrics used, BUT the difference between the two is probably small in general.

Why not just set B-frames to 16 in all cases as the encoder will dynamically adjust anyway and only use what it needs ?
With the new B-Frame optimization patch (coming soon :p) the encoding time will take a lot longer with each additional B-frame.
3 b-frames is generally the most practical; higher values offer little advantage except perhaps for anime.

Does noFastPSkip add to encoding time ? If not, then why not always set to true in HQ and Insane ?
Yes it does add to the encoding time by a fair amount.

I'd always thought more than 5 Ref Frames generated little or no benefit for quality for anything other than large repetition within the frame (e.g. animation). Normal movies won't get much if any benefit from values higher than 5. What benefit will more Ref Frames give on quality vs the encoding time ?
Normal movies won't get much benefit from values higher than 6 refs, but there is still a benefit (couple percent perhaps, depends on source)

If going for Insane, why not use subme of 7, or is the belief that 7 over 6 adds little to quality but significantly affects encode time (I've noted that using 7 does slow the whole process quite significantly) ?
Insane uses subme 7. Those values in the XML file are indexed from 0.

Using ME of ESA seems of limited use as its massively slower than UMH, and most people really can't see the difference when taking into account other parameters we're adjusting.
Insane uses --me-tesa. Again, those kinds of settings are the reason why the profile is called Insane. They may improve internal metrics but visually they mean exactly squat :devil:

MERange seems to be incredibly useful to improve quality to human eye as it allows more pixels to be checked for motion, but it does add significantly to encode time. I've done some encodes using 32 and 64, and 64 seems much better in overall 2-pass quality, but does add to encode time.
Higher MERange would be useful for high resolution sources with fast motion, i.e. objects travel over many macroblocks between each frame. 64 might be good for 1080p (just a guess, I haven't tried it)

So, if the aim is to get best quality in fixed size 2-pass, I'd wonder whether people would find it better to increase MERange, but decrease ME ?
That will work if it's favorable for the source.

My own personal experience, and in no way to deflect from the truly exceptional work to generate these profiles, would be to use (for Insane encodes):-

<NbBframes>16</NbBframes>
<noFastPSkip>true</noFastPSkip>
<NbRefFrames>5</NbRefFrames>
<SubPelRefinement>7</SubPelRefinement>
<METype>3</METype>
<MERange>64</MERange>
<VBVBufferSize>0</VBVBufferSize>
<VBVMaxBitrate>0</VBVMaxBitrate>
<DeadZoneInter>6</DeadZoneInter>
<DeadZoneIntra>4</DeadZoneIntra>

Use x264 command line settings; leave the XML for Sharktooth.

I find deblock 1:0:0 with adjusted deadzones is preferable to deblock 1:-1:-1 as this has a tendancy to introduce blocks on HD content when using 21,11 deadzones)
The best thing you've said in your entire post! ;)

Insane encodes are going to take on average twice as long as HQ encodes when using subme=7 and merange=64 as there is a lot more to calculate against. But you will always get a better quality output (in my experience).

Again, most of the time the difference can only be seen with metrics but not visually.

Finally, psy-rdo + psy-trellis nullifies most of those differences.
In the end, you're better of learning exactly what each setting does so you can fine tune them to your source if you really want "true best quality".

Next time :search: , those questions have been answered in detail already, I just gave those answers from what I remember.