New MeGUI x264 presets.

[Sharktooth]

Here's a list of the new MeGUI x264 presets. They will replace the old ones.
So, ensure to DELETE ALL the old x264 profiles/presets BEFORE IMPORTING this ones:

MeGUI presets in Japanese (wiki) (http://x264.tobinaka.com/index.php?Presets)
Thanks to tobinaka

DXVA-HD-Anime_Toons Fast
DXVA-HD-Anime_Toons HQ
DXVA-HD-Fast
DXVA-HD-Balanced
DXVA-HD-HQ
DXVA-HD-Extra Quality
DXVA-HD-Insane
DXVA-SD-Anime_Toons Fast
DXVA-SD-Anime_Toons HQ
DXVA-SD-Fast
DXVA-SD-Balanced
DXVA-SD-HQ
DXVA-SD-Extra Quality
DXVA-SD-Insane

The "DXVA" group presets ensure DXVA hardware compatibility and good compression/quality. The 'FAST' tagged profiles are consistently faster but have a bit lower compression/quality (this is true for other preset groups too). Those presets replace the old HQ and AE ones. The SD and HD tags mean for Standard Def and for High Def. encodings.

Device-Archos605
Device-Cellphones_PDAs-Level1.0
Device-Cellphones_PDAs-Level1.1
Device-Cellphones_PDAs-Level1.2
Device-Cellphones_PDAs-Level1.3
Device-iPhone
Device-iPod 5.5G
Device-iPod
Device-PSP
Device-Zune

The "Device" group presets, is for Portable Devices compatibility.

Standalone-AppleTV
Standalone-AVC-HD
Standalone-PS3-Xbox360
Standalone-PS3-Xbox360_Fast
Standalone-Xbox_HiRes
Standalone-Xbox_LoRes
Standalone-Blu-ray
Standalone-Blu-ray_Fast
Standalone-HD-DVD
Standalone-HD-DVD_Fast

The "Standalone" group presets, ensure compatibility with Stand Alone players and devices.

Unrestricted 1pass ABR
Unrestricted 1pass ABR Fast
Unrestricted 1pass MaxSpeed
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Anime_Toons
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Fast
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Balanced
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Extra Q.
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ
Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Insane
Unrestricted 1pass Lossless
Unrestricted 2pass Fast
Unrestricted 2pass Balanced
Unrestricted 2pass HQ
Unrestricted 2pass Extra Quality
Unrestricted 2pass Insane
Unrestricted 2pass Anime_Toons Fast
Unrestricted 2pass Anime_Toons Balanced
Unrestricted 2pass Anime_Toons HQ
Unrestricted 2pass Anime_Toons Extra Q.
Unrestricted 2pass Anime_Toons Insane
Unrestricted 2pass QuickTime for Windows

The "Unrestricted" group presets is for people not caring about hardware compatibility and are particularly good for mid-high/high end completely software PC playback (without DXVA videocards). Those ones are good to replace HQ and AE presets too. 1 pass ABR presets are not recommended. Those are there only because the encoder support that mode OR if you need fast encodings and somewhat have bitrate limits, try to not use them. 2pass or other modes will produce way better results. The maxspeed preset uses constant quality and minimum settings.

Additional notes: If you dont know what preset to choose or you're uncertain, use the DXVA HD or SD (depending on the source definition: SD - standard definition, HD - High definition) presets as default encoding presets or Unrestricted 2pass HQ or Balanced.
All anime/toons of all presets groups have Psy-RDO DISABLED and a higher deblocking filter values.
The presets are made for MeGUI however you can port or include them in other encoding GUIs or Apps.
The presets should work but I assume no responsibilities for anything that could happen (including and not limited to exploding cats or psycho bunnies) blah blah blah... usual stuff.

DOWNLOAD (http://mirror05.x264.nl/Sharktooth/MeGUI/profiles/MeGUI-x264_generic_profiles_v85.zip)
(mirror (http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/megui/MeGUI-x264_generic_profiles_v85.zip))
Ver.85
Changelog:
V50: Initial release
V51: The Unrestricted 2pass preset now uses slower/higher compression settings but 1 less ref frame.
V52: All the Unrestricted 2pass presets were missing the "Turbo" option for first pass. Insane does not use Turbo 1st pass.
V53: Changed Unrestricted 1pass Constant Quality Trellis = 1 to 2
V54: Changed Unrestricted 1pass Constant Quality Deblocking to -1,-1
V55: Limited the max b-frames number in some presets due to this: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139827
V56: Renamed Unrestricted 2pass -> Unrestricted 2pass HQ. New Unrestricted 2pass Balanced preset. More bframes tweaking.
V57: New Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality presets (HQ, Balanced, FAST). They replace the old one. AVC-HD and BD maxbitrate & buffer tweaks.
V58: Added Device-Zune preset. B-Frames updated to 3 in Device-PSP preset.
V59: Min Keyint -> 2 in all Blu-Ray and AVC-HD presets. Weighted B-Prediction disabled on any Anime/Toons presets.
V60: New Insane presets for DXVA group. Fixed Trellis 1 -> 2 in DXVA HQ presets.
V61: Revised/Fixed VBV settings for most of the restricted presets. Too much changes to list them. Also Trellis 1 -> 0 in Device-PSP preset (due to Psy-RDO).
V62: Revised settings for Device-PSP preset... added some more juice. Removed b-pyramid from all DXVA group presets... this time it is FOREVER until x264 gets properly patched.
V63: Rised the min-keyint value to 4 in all HD-DVD presets.
V64: DVXA-SD-HQ preset still had b-pyramid.
V65: New Balanced presets in DXVA group. Some tweaks here and there... too much to list.
V66: Restored min-keyint value to 2 in both HD-DVD presets. Disabled AQ in all Anime/Toons presets (it did more harm than good).
V67: Tweaks, Tweaks, Tweaks... too much to be listed (most are concerning Trellis) and removed b-pyramid from DXVA-SD-Balanced preset (it was not meant to be there).
V68: Updated partition types for Device-iPod, Device-iPod 5.5G and Device-Zune presets.
V69: Fixed the Device-PSP preset (messed up in the previous version).
V70: Various VBV buffers changes for Device group presets. Trellis 0 to 1 in Device-PSP preset. New Device-Cellphones_PDAs-Level1.3 preset.
V71: Revised all VBV max bitrate and buffers in all restricted presets. Renamed Device-AppleTV -> Standalone-AppleTV (changed group).
V72: Removed b-pyramid from DXVA-SD-Anime_Toons (missed it in a previous update)
V73: New Extra Quality presets for both DXVA and Unrestricted groups. New Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Insane preset. All Insane presets are even more insane. Extra Quality presets are a blend between HQ and Insane presets settings. Other minor tweaks.
V74: General tweaks discussed here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1180105#post1180105
V75: Completely new Anime/Toons presets.
V76: Changed AQmode 2 to 1.
V77: Updated psy options format for the new MeGUI version
V78: Removed Psy-Trellis (set to 0) in all presets coz it's too much experimental. Set b-adapt to 2 where it was possible without hurting speed too much and on all the Insane presets.
V79: Limited the number of B-Frames when b-adapt 2 is set for encoding speed reasons.
V80: Rised the number of B-Frames in Unrestricted presets to 16 where b-adapt 1 is used. All HQ presets now use b-adapt 2.
V81: Presets format updated due to the recente changes in x264 API plus some very slight changes in some options.
V82: Fixed subme mode from 7 to 9 in Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Insane.
V83: Fixed some typos in presets names. Added Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Anime_Toons preset. Added P4x4 partitions option where possible.
V84: Added Device-Android G1 preset based on kosmonaut findings (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145137).
V85: Fixed VBV Buffer size for Standalone-Blu-Ray presets.

READ CAREFULLY: Download the archive. Delete all the MeGUI x264 presets before importing these ones. Import the presets using the MeGUI File->Import Presets menu'.
If you want to get back the old presets, delete these ones and use the Force Reinstall option in megui Options->Update for the x264 presets.

[rack04]

Fantastic. Thanks for all your hard work.

My observations:

Are the HQ tags going to be removed from the DXVA profiles? Not that it really matters but just to be consistent with the other profiles. Should the ones that are "not recommended" even be included?

[Sharktooth]

not recommended means the encoder can do much better with 2 passes but... if you need really FAST encoding an have bitrate limits, you can ignore the 'Not recommended'.
DXVA presets are all HQ presets, even the fast ones.

[Nightshiver]

Aww, so you're not keeping the old AE (anime) presets? If not, I'll probably not want to update unless one of the new presets can do the same job.

[Sharktooth]

Use the Unrestricted (better choice) or DXVA presets for Anime.

[Nightshiver]

Is there a particular one that most closely resembles AE-Maxquality? Might be the unrestricted 2pass insane... Another question. Are the DXVA 2pass for all of them?

[Sharktooth]

Unrestricted 2pass insane it's even better than AE-Maxquality but may be a bit slower. That's if you need to hit a filesize or bitrate.
I'd use Unrestricted 2pass. In both cases i would edit the profile or create a new one starting from one of those 2 and rise the inloop filter values to 1 and 1...
If you want i can add two general HQ anime presets in the Unrestricted and DXVA groups.

Edit: Too late, you convinced me.... added.

[smok3]

ok, so i'am not a megui regular, but how about all this acronims (PD, SA), how about 'PortableDevice' and 'Standalone' instead?

(looking at the gui, encoder settings has a full-width pulldown, so that should not be a problem?)

[Sharktooth]

dang, i was thinking the same. ill see what i can do.

edit: done.

[Sharktooth]

pff... damn windows and M$... lost all presets...
proceding with a hard undelete... crossing fingers.

[rack04]

not recommended means the encoder can do much better with 2 passes but... if you need really FAST encoding an have bitrate limits, you can ignore the 'Not recommended'.
DXVA presets are all HQ presets, even the fast ones.

So should it be DXVA-HD-HQ_Fast?

[Kurtnoise]

First, congrats for the update. :) Hoping you haven't lost everything...:/


I vote to rename/remove 2 things :
"PortableDevice" to "Device". I think it's more appropriate (or let just the device type as name). Plus, I don't think that the PS3 and the Xbox are portable. ;)
Standalone : is it really necessary ? BluRay and HDVD is self explanatory imo...



and btw, is it useful/interesting to keep the Insane preset ? It should be removed (just my opinion though...)

[smok3]

or merge portableDevice and Standalone into TargetDevice or only Device (or Hardware maybe).

[Sharktooth]

First, congrats for the update. :) Hoping you haven't lost everything...:/


I vote to rename/remove 2 things :
"PortableDevice" to "Device". I think it's more appropriate (or let just the device type as name). Plus, I don't think that the PS3 and the Xbox are portable. ;)
Standalone : is it really necessary ? BluRay and HDVD is self explanatory imo...



and btw, is it useful/interesting to keep the Insane preset ? It should be removed (just my opinion though...)
..probably the Xbox presets will be moved under the SA group...
just done.
however im trying to recoved the files. the damn NTFS is a rotten POS.
Insane is there for Insane PPL. I can assure you there are a lot...

[saint-francis]

Thanks Sharktooth. I'm looking forward to checking these out. I appreciate the effort.


Insane is there for Insane PPL. I can assure you there are a lot...

I'm one of those people. I often (about once a week or so) use the HQ insane profile. With the power of affordable processing these days and looking at what's on the horizon for processors I'm personally not too excited about Hardware decoding. I do have a question about the DXVA profiles though. How many reference frames will they use? With MPC HC I'm now getting hardware acceleration with 10 reference frames and the current DXVA profiles only use something like 3.

[Sharktooth]

Depends on the resolution SD or HD. The DXVA profiles are made to be compatible with ALL DXVA decoders (including powerDVD and MPC).
Obviously MPC's decoder has less limitations than cyberlink's, but a couple of additional refs (when there are already 3 or more) do not change your life and neither the encoding quality.

[saint-francis]

but a couple of additional refs (when there are already 3 or more) do not change your life and neither the encoding quality.

Are you saying that the difference between 3 and 10 reference frames is negligible?

[Sharktooth]

yep. more then 3 refs = negligible gain and using more refs = enormous encoding times.
i swear!!! i definatly lost all files dated after 18 july 2008... on 2 different HDDs... thanx NTFS!!!

[Dark Shikari]

yep. more then 3 refs = negligible gainI'd put the cutoff more around 4-5. And more than 5, even, is certainly not for animated footage or CGI.

[Sharktooth]

3 was chosen for DXVA or other HW compatible presets.
Unrestricted presets have more refs, expecially the anime one.

[Dark Shikari]

3 was chosen for DXVA or other HW compatible presets.
Unrestricted presets have more refs, expecially the anime one.Isn't the limit 4, not 3, for 1080p 4.1?

[Sharktooth]

dunno i threw a random number (3, but it could have been 4 as well) coz i lost the presets and i didnt remember if it was 3 or 4... or whatever. my memory is really short lately...

edit: the limit depends on the DPB size.

[smackbadger]

Shouldn't PSP be under PortableDevice, since PSP=PlayStation Portable right?

[Kurtnoise]

I'm one of those people. I often (about once a week or so) use the HQ insane profile.
what is the real gain to use a such preset ?

[yesgrey]

not recommended means the encoder can do much better with 2 passes but... if you need really FAST encoding an have bitrate limits, you can ignore the 'Not recommended'.

I think it would be a good idea including this as a note in the first post. It's better have all the relevant info there, and this question will arise more often... After a few thread pages the people will only look at the first post, nothing more...

[Sharktooth]

yes, i added the info.

@smackbadger: yes, was already there... i just pasted the wrong name.

[canTsTop]

what is difference between DXVA and PS3-Xbox360 presets? isn't this the same thing?

[Sharktooth]

buffers.

[check]

Why not combine the 'portable devices' and 'standalone' categories into a 'hardware players' or similar category? The split between them is a little arbitrary.

[Sharktooth]

could be an idea. but id like to keep them separated.

[Sharktooth]

EDIT: moved to the first post.

[kurt]

dunno i threw a random number (3, but it could have been 4 as well) coz i lost the presets and i didnt remember if it was 3 or 4... or whatever. my memory is really short lately...

edit: the limit depends on the resolution.
jap, it's 4 for 1920x1088, look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972503)....

btw: thanks for all your efforts, these presets are much appreciated!

btw2: when driving with Popcorn Hour, I should stick with Standalone-PS3-Xbox360, right?

[Sharktooth]

i left 4 refs for HD even if some old DXVA video cards/drivers do not support 4. for the same reason i thought to take out b-pyramid but i didnt.

btw2: dunno... but if you find any info about the exact playback capabilities i can make a preset... :)

[saint-francis]

what is the real gain to use a such preset ?

Using crf I have consistently noticed a 3-7 % reduction in size as compared to using a profile like HQ Slow. Using HQ Insane it only takes about 4-6 hours for me to encode the average DVD (depending on the .avs). I don't use such settings on HD content. I did once and it took over 24 hours.

[Sharktooth]

what is the real gain to use a such preset ?
Almost none, really. It's just for the ppl that want to "squeeze even the last drop of juice from the fruit", no matter how much time it takes.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. If you have V50 please download V51.

[TheRyuu]

All anime/toons of all presets groups have Psy-RDO DISABLED and a higher deblocking filter values.

I think anime should have 0:0 deblocking and toon 1:1 but that's just me. Good anime has detail you know.

The same can be said about possibly using psyRDO in anime to keep fine details (possibly gradients, or gradfun gradients, or even some noise).

Edit: Why is no-dct-decimate on with anime/toon. Shouldn't that be off?

[Sharktooth]

1,1 is the same as the old AE presets. no one ever complained. 0,0 and 1,1 difference is almost unnoticeable.

[Sharktooth]

another update. V52. Re-download. Now it's all in the first post.

[kurt]

i left 3 refs for HD since some old DXVA video cards do not support 4.

btw2: dunno... but if you find any info about the exact playback capabilities i can make a preset... :)
PCH uses the same Sigma Chip as PS3 (8635) but is limited in RAM of course. I'll try to find out the max settings... lately I was driving with this commandline very well (720p encodes though):

--pass 2 --bitrate 4500 --stats ".stats" --level 4.1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb
--direct auto --nf --subme 6 --trellis 1 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1
--vbv-bufsize 9000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --merange 12 --threads auto
--thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

any hints what to change (for maxing out)?

[Sharktooth]

i edited the post you quoted coz i actually did the contrary of what i initially said...

[mozzle]

Sharktooth,

Thanks so much for all your hard work; the presets are indispensable! Sorry about your computer issues.

I had a couple questions about the new presets (V.52), specifically the Unrestricted 1pass Constant Quality preset.

1) I may have misinterpreted something along the way but it was my understanding that Trellis 1 was not compatible with the new PsyRDO. I know PsyRDO automatically turns off Trellis 1 if detected but is Trellis 1 still the official "Recommended Value" for Constant Quality?

2) It appears you have modified quite a few of the presets' Deblocking values. I just wanted to confirm that you didn't mean to change the "Recommended Value" for Constant Quality.

3) Is there a specific reason that "No Fast P-Skip" is unchecked in all of the 1-pass presets?


Thanks again for all of your effort!

[Sharktooth]

1) right. x264 will automatically disable trellis if set to 1 and if psy-rdo is enabled. if the preset contains trellis 1 then it's an error. Trellis with Psy-RDO can be only 0 or 2. 2 is better but slower.

2) i modified all the -2,-1 in -1,-1 since i've seen some slight more oversharpening when psy-rdo was introduced (i've changed monitor too in that period, so it may be also due to that).

3) fast pskip is an optimization, i wont use no-fast-pskip in non insane profiles.

[Sharktooth]

Another update: V53.
Changelog & download link in the first post.

[mozzle]

Sharktooth,

Thanks for the quick reply.

FYI, I'm getting a 404 error on http://mirror05.x264.nl/Sharktooth/MeGUI/profiles/MeGUI-x264_generic_profiles_v52.zip

Looks like the URL still references the previous version (v52).

[Sharktooth]

try now... it didnt update the link.
i've also added a mirror.

[mozzle]

Thanks Sharktooth.

By the way, I primarily do CRF encoding using the Constant Quality preset. I would like to experiment with some of the other presets using Constant Quality. I know you recommend using "Spatial" for B-Frame Mode in CQ. So I would assume that I should change B-Frame Mode to "Spatial" when using a 2-pass preset (e.g. "Insane") in CQ mode, correct?


Thanks again!

[Sharktooth]

Auto is not good for 1 pass (CQ, CRF or ABR). Spatial seems better to me...
However the Unrestricted CQ preset is quite good. There are very few other options to tweak to rise compression/quality.
Just set your preferred CRF and let it go... ;)

[JarrettH]

Reply for the new thread :P

Good to see you in better health :devil:

[Sharktooth]

not much better but at least i can see/read/type a bit better now :)
feel free to test the new presets and to report problems, inconsistencies, etc... :)

[Avenger007]

2) It appears you have modified quite a few of the presets' Deblocking values. I just wanted to confirm that you didn't mean to change the "Recommended Value" for Constant Quality.


2) i modified all the -2,-1 in -1,-1 since i've seen some slight more oversharpening when psy-rdo was introduced (i've changed monitor too in that period, so it may be also due to that).
Unrestricted 1pass Constant Quality still has -2,-1.
What do you mean by oversharpening? If it's more detail then wouldn't 0,-2 or 0,-1 be better (if you're purposefully avoiding default 0,0)?

3) fast pskip is an optimization, i wont use no-fast-pskip in non insane profiles.
Double negative, consider rephrasing. :p

Additionally, merange 32 seems suitable for Unrestricted 2pass Insane.

Finally, how difficult would it be to create a quality slider in MeGUI based on these (and perhaps more fine-grained) profiles?

[JarrettH]

I just like how you've limited the choices. I'll definitely try out the new CQ profile. Maybe you want to make the new default for Keyframe Interval and Min GOP Size 240/24, but you already told me before it doesn't matter a great deal.

Heh Insane is quite funny, even Turbo is off ;p

[Sharktooth]

@avenger: no-fast-pskip is a non issue. it will stay on on Insane preset, but the other really dont need it.
i corrected the deblocking in Unrestricted CQ and will post an update. with oversharpening i mean the encoding looked too sharp (maybe the psy-rdo effect or maybe it's just due to my new display) so i decided for -1,-1 instead of -2,-1. The difference is negligible though.
concerning the quality slider bar post the idea in the megui feature requests tracker.

@JarrettH: the GOP size should be proportional to the source framerate. if you live in a NTSC country you can safely use 240/24 (for 24FPS) or 300/30 (for 30FPS)... for PAL, 250/25 (25 FPS).
The presets are not absolute, you may always adjust them for your needs. I live in a PAL country so i set 250/25 by default but no one said you cant change those values.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V54.

[Nightshiver]

Sweet. Thanks a bunch Sharktooth for the anime pre's. Looking good!

[LOGiC]

@JarrettH: the GOP size should be proportional to the source framerate. if you live in a NTSC country you can safely use 240/24 (for 24FPS) or 300/30 (for 30FPS)... for PAL, 250/25 (25 FPS).
The presets are not absolute, you may always adjust them for your needs. I live in a PAL country so i set 250/25 by default but no one said you cant change those values.

@Sharktooth, unfortunately I started my first MeGUI encoding try yesterday evening, which will take me about 30 hours and unfortunately I am trying to encode a 23,976fps source with 250/25 as I didn't switch this.

I am thinking about stopping the encode when I return and starting again. What may happen, if I don't have a proportional of 23,976 (240/24) ? Do you think it's worth a try and letting the machine run ?

Thanks in advance.

[Sharktooth]

it's not a big problem. using bigger GOP doesnt mean having less quality. it could even be the opposite.
Keyint = 10 x FPS and Min GOP = FPS is just a common sense rule... but not mandatory.
keep your encode, you wont notice any difference.

[Octo-puss]

Question: what's roughly the oldest kind of card to support DXVA?
Another one: if encoded with DXVA profile, I assume it will still play on PC with non-DXVA card, only it will be slow?

Gonna test tonight :) thanks for all the work.

[Sharktooth]

geforce 8x00 series and radeon HD 2x00 series (with limitations).

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V55.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V56.

[yesgrey]

Additional notes: If you dont know what preset to choose or you're uncertain, use ... or Unrestricted 2pass.

V56: Renamed Unrestricted 2pass -> Unrestricted 2pass HQ. New Unrestricted 2pass Balanced preset. More bframes tweaking.

So, I believe if we are uncertain we should use Unrestricted 2pass HQ, right? You forgot to edit the upper line...

One question: Could you give us, the uncertain ones, a measure of the quality/size difference of DXVA HD vs Unrestricted 2pass HQ? Is it only a question of hardware compatibility or does the Unrestricted mode justifies in quality the loss of hardware compatibility? If this question has an answer, I think it would be a good idea including it in the first post...

[Sharktooth]

right... if it's too slow use Unrestricted 2pass Balanced.
i edited the first post too to avoid confusion.

[LOGiC]

@Sharktooth

I just went through some profiles and noticed, that i.e. Standalone-BluRay just has Keyframe interval 24 and Min GOP Size 1 while it should be 240/24. Is this something specific in context with the bluray structure or do I need to change this ? I am just running some re-encoding tests for it.

[Sharktooth]

as i said its not mandatory to set the GOP size and keyint that way. it's just recommended. however blu-ray preset was made that way for blu-ray compatibility.
leave it as it is.

[LOGiC]

@Sharktooth

Thanks for your answer. I know that these settings are not mandatary and that I could have changed them, but I left them as they are as you definately have more experience in those things. My first testclip was great with AVC-HD-Standalone, which almost has the same settings as bluray. For testing purposes, I switched Deblock Strength and Treshold to -1 on AVCHD, which I also liked at the test-encode. I have to admit, that I am almost fully satisfied with this stuff. Thanks for your help.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V57.

[Rumbah]

I just wanted to know if B-frames = 2 for the PSP profile is for speed reasons.
Because I always encode my PSP movies with B-frames = 3 and I never got a problem.

[Sharktooth]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it.

[turbojet]

--nal-hrd along with the aforementioned --key-int 24 is another thing that's not required to get a bluray compatible output via TSMuxer, I've tested this at a local store with 5 bluray players. From what I recall these settings were manadatory to get scenarist accepting the stream, but I could be wrong. I've never used the program, way beyond my budget. The sginifigant thing, and the main reason I'm mentioning it, is both these settings hurt effeciency, a combined 10-15% larger with CRF on tests I've done.

I know sharktooth has said he doesn't want to mix the console and bluray profiles, which is understandable. But the PS3-Xbox360 presets with --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 30000 are much more optimal for compatible blurays from TSMuxer then the current ones. They also should play in xbox360 with this small change, if what I've read on the internet about xbox360 supporting up to 30 MB\s video bitrate at 1080p is true, but I cannot test this to be sure. It very well could be a more 'one size fits all' profile, and the current bluray profiles could be named scenarist bluray or something to give the user a much more optimized bluray via tsmuxer profile, but very well could get a little confusing with 2 bluray type profiles. What do you think?

On the other hand megui doesn't output blurays so many users may just opt to use a program that does. I've noticed bluray output via tsmuxer in the feature requests on sourceforge for the past few months but no replies from developers on the matter.

PS: unforutnately --trellis 1 seems to be all but meaningless now with psyRDO builds. Without anyone compiling and posting psyRDO builds that support trellis 1 Is there any reason to still use it in the profiles?

[Rumbah]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it.

I did at least 20 encodes with the profile and b-frames set to 3 and I got no problem at all. I did at least as much with 3 b-frames and RDO level 2 and trellis set to 2 but of course that's slower on the encoding side ;) .

[Sharktooth]

--nal-hrd along with the aforementioned --key-int 24 is another thing that's not required to get a bluray compatible output via TSMuxer, I've tested this at a local store with 5 bluray players. From what I recall these settings were manadatory to get scenarist accepting the stream, but I could be wrong. I've never used the program, way beyond my budget. The sginifigant thing, and the main reason I'm mentioning it, is both these settings hurt effeciency, a combined 10-15% larger with CRF on tests I've done.

I know sharktooth has said he doesn't want to mix the console and bluray profiles, which is understandable. But the PS3-Xbox360 presets with --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 30000 are much more optimal for compatible blurays from TSMuxer then the current ones. They also should play in xbox360 with this small change, if what I've read on the internet about xbox360 supporting up to 30 MB\s video bitrate at 1080p is true, but I cannot test this to be sure. It very well could be a more 'one size fits all' profile, and the current bluray profiles could be named scenarist bluray or something to give the user a much more optimized bluray via tsmuxer profile, but very well could get a little confusing with 2 bluray type profiles. What do you think?

On the other hand megui doesn't output blurays so many users may just opt to use a program that does. I've noticed bluray output via tsmuxer in the feature requests on sourceforge for the past few months but no replies from developers on the matter.

PS: unforutnately --trellis 1 seems to be all but meaningless now with psyRDO builds. Without anyone compiling and posting psyRDO builds that support trellis 1 Is there any reason to still use it in the profiles?
dont consider TSmuxer.
megui should be able to output blu-ray compatible streams and streams compatible with all blu-ray authoring sotwares or i will delete all blu-ray presets.
also you're not supposed to use CRF with blu-ray. if you want CRF use another preset.
TSMuxer will be added in the the future. we have no time to reply to all requests.
since psy-rdo is default on (for RDO modes), Trellis 1 is useless if psy-rdo is enabled (when subme >= 6) but it works for subme < 6.
you can still use Trellis 1 with subme 6 and 7 but you have to disable psy-rdo.

[~bT~]

Trellis 1 is useless if psy-rdo is disabled (when subme < 6).

isnt it the opposite?

when psy-rdo is enabled, trellis should be 0 or 2?

[Sharktooth]

yes. :) fixed.

[JarrettH]

Unrestricted Level, Constant Quality HQ looks very good to me. It's very close in resemblance to the original. I think I'll start using that now instead of targeting bitrates with two-pass.
There Will Be Blood [150min] with AC3 5.1 audio came to 2.25gb and Lost Highway [135min] (scaaaaryyyy) came to 1.27gb with AC3 5.1 audio

[Deinorius]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it. Why not use two settings for PSP?
Or least test, if B-Frames 3 eats too much Battery time?

[turbojet]

I can understand your point about must work in all bluray authoring tools, but like I said I could be completely wrong about scenarist. Would need someone with the program to confirm one way or the other. But all in all maybe it's best to wait for tsmuxer capability before really optimizing a preset for it.

I realize multi pass mode is the way to go for bluray, so let me rephrase it in the least confusing way I can think of. nal-hrd key-int 24 combined raise the average quants on a muti-pass encode by 0.5-8 relative to the quant range in use, such as size of 17 vs 18 is alot larger than size between 35 vs 36. In almost every case I can tell a visual difference.

subme => 6 and trellis 1 are in a few presets, and psyrdo isn't disabled which is why I mentioned it. Not that it technically really matters as it just kicks it back to trellis 0. Me saying trellis 1 being meaningless is more my frustration about it once being a very good option for me (higher PSNR/SSIM at often lower bitrates vs default deadzones and noticably sharper in every one of the CRF tests I've done, a few others share the same experiences) now its not an option at all due to one persons opinion. But that's a whole other matter and not for this thread. Let me rephrase it by saying trellis 1 is now meaningless for me as I see enough of an effeciency improvement of B-RDO to justify the very little slowdown.

[nurbs]

Me saying trellis 1 being meaningless is more my frustration about it once being a very good option for me (higher PSNR/SSIM at often lower bitrates vs default deadzones and noticably sharper in every one of the CRF tests I've done, a few others share the same experiences) now its not an option at all due to one persons opinion.

IIRC there is a commandline switch that disables psy-rdo and uses the conventional rdo again. If you use that you can use trellis 1.

[Sharktooth]

@turbojet: Psy-RDO is really much better than trelllis 1, higher PSNR/SSIM doesnt mean more quality. also you can use Trellis 1 for all non RDO modes (subme < 6) and you can even disable psy-rdo using --psy-rd 0 in custom commanldine options (like i did for anime presets) so you can use trellis 1 even for RDO modes (subme >= 6).
I really cant see any problems.

[Killerattacks]

I'm a total beginner regarding encoding, but iirc I read somewhere that when you're encoding anime and want high quality results, the x264 option "No fast P-skips" should be enabled (and 2-pass encoding and a high bitrate of course).
Now my question: If I want to encode anime for the ps3 using megui+x264+ the ps3&xbox360 profile this option is _not_ checked. Would using it make the resulting encode unplayable on those consoles?

[Sharktooth]

BS. the no-fast-pskip thing was a problems only ages ago. ppl continue to think it is necesary but it isnt since it was fixed. high bitrate is not necessary since anime are more compressible than movies. 2 passes is only necessary if you aim at a bitrate/filesize otherwise 1 pass CRF is better. 3 passes is only useful if the 2n pass didnt hit the requested bitrate. the "more passes, more qulity" myth is NOT TRUE (it's just a myth), some idiot spread a falsse voice and the result is ppl is wasting a lot of time encoding. Infact the 1pass CRF gives the higher quality results.
For PS3 you have to use the PS3 preset. no-fast-pskip is not necesary, as i already said, however it doesnt influence playback.

[Killerattacks]

Thanks for clearing that up :)

[Dark Shikari]

BS. the no-fast-pskip thing was a problems only ages ago. ppl continue to think it is necesary but it isnt since it was fixed. high bitrate is not necessary since anime are more compressible than movies. 2 passes is only necessary if you aim at a bitrate/filesize otherwise 1 pass CRF is better. 3 passes is onlyy useful if the 2pass encoding didnt hit the requested bitrate. the "more passes, more qulity" myth is NOT TRUE, some idiot spread a falsse voice and the result is ppl is wasting a lot of time encoding. Infact the 1pass CRF gives the higher quality results.
For PS3 you have to use the PS3 preset. no-fast-pskip is not necesary, as i already said, however it doesnt influence playback.No-fast-pskip does still give a small quality gain; any profile with other more insane settings like --me tesa and --trellis 2 should probably have it.

[Sharktooth]

infact it is there in the insane profile.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V58.

[Rumbah]

I encoded a film with 2 and 3 b-frames fot the PSP and the one with 3 b-frames didn't drain the batteries more than the one with 2 b-frames.

[Sharktooth]

good, then ill keep 3 b-frames in the preset.

[Nightshiver]

Hey sharktooth, I just downloaded the zip'ed presets but can't extract them :( I'm using WinRAR and it's telling me "Unknown method in " and doesn't go on.

[rack04]

Hey sharktooth, I just downloaded the zip'ed presets but can't extract them :( I'm using WinRAR and it's telling me "Unknown method in " and doesn't go on.

Don't extract them, import them. Make sure to read the first post.

[sekhar_co]

Hay Sharktooth, i am new user of meGUI and already encode few movie.
My size of the movie is very small like that-
90MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 300MB
120MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 400MB
And source was m-HD (micro HD: HDD/Blueray encoded to 1 mkv file) which was allready encoded with meGUI and the size is 1.5 or 2.2 GB
My question is How i encode with such small size video and which profile i use to get maximum quality.

Plz try to mention MeGUI application steps. Thanks in advance :D

[fib0by]

I'm encoding a .264 video track to fit it on a DVD DL (8.5 GB). Will multiplex it with the AC3 audio track and author a BD image with tsmuxer after encoding is done. I am targeting the bitrate so that the whole thing, after authoring, fits in 8150 MB.

Anyway, technically, this is an AVCHD disk, not a Blu-Ray disk, is that right? So I should use the Standalone-AVC-HD profile, not the Standalone-Blu-ray profile. Is that correct?

I am asking because I used x264.exe settings from another application (RipBot), which are somewhat similar to the Blu-ray profile (very large buffer size and max bitrate), I authored with tsmuxer and put it on a DVD DL, and the result did not play correctly on the PS3 - the image was freezing every few seconds. I assume this was because a mismatch between the encoder settings (Blu-ray-like) and the nature of the disk I authored (AVCHD, not true 25GB Blu-ray).

[Sharktooth]

Hay Sharktooth, i am new user of meGUI and already encode few movie.
My size of the movie is very small like that-
90MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 300MB
120MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 400MB
And source was m-HD (micro HD: HDD/Blueray encoded to 1 mkv file) which was allready encoded with meGUI and the size is 1.5 or 2.2 GB
My question is How i encode with such small size video and which profile i use to get maximum quality.

Plz try to mention MeGUI application steps. Thanks in advance :D
:readguid:
presets are explained in the first post.
next time :search:

@fib0by: AVC-HD is included in the presets. use that and not Blu-Ray or settings from other apps.

[fib0by]

@fib0by: AVC-HD is included in the presets. use that and not Blu-Ray or settings from other apps.

I understand that.
I was asking: is it correct to assume that the AVC-HD preset is the right one for stuff that I put on DVD DL (even though is authored as "BD"), while the Blu-ray preset is the right one for stuff that I may put on actual BD disks?

[tetsuo55]

First i want to say thanks for all the hard work you put into the new profiles!

I have a question about the DXVA/Hardware profiles.

I don't really see any differences between the HD hardware profiles, did you use any special settings beyond the basic h264 level compliance? (All of them should basically be 1 profile)

I read something about bluray forcing some settings? in that case that settings should be common to all HD hardware profiles. or does it break another system?

I see you chose ref-frames 3 where 4 is possible, you could make this 4 in all cases for HD


--------------

I know megui is not able to do so yet, but to accurate calculate the maximum ref-frame limit on a video to video basis the following formula can be used:

IF Width="<=720" AND height="<=576" GOTO="SD"
ELSE GOTO="HD"

SD
6531840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames
HD
8355840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

[Sharktooth]

the SD presets use a higher number of reference frames. the user-side difference between HD and SD presets is SD, if used for HD, the playback wont be accelerated by DXVA cards.
having more refs for SD means a slightly better compression (hence quality) but not in all cases. It will be at least equal...

however im sorry but i dont think we will implement a DXVA compliance check since DXVA is windows centric and subject to changes...

[tetsuo55]

however im sorry bud i dont think we will implement a DXVA compliance check since DXVA is windows centric and subject to changes...

Now i understand your resistance, you think DXVA has something to do with windows.
You're right in thinking so, the name is confusing.

Let me put it this way:

DXVA is the exact same thing as a Bluray player or an X360. Its just a different way of doing the same thing

They all have the same Goal: Play back level 3.1 and level 4.1 compliant files. The rules for playback are defined by the Joint Video Team (JVT).

Since the bugs in x264 have been fixed it has been perfectly capable of encoding files that work on any device that supports hardware decoding of an H264 AVC file. The only difference is the chosen container.


Although its true that DXVA has slightly loose restrictions on things like bitrate the limits we have talked about in the past never exceeded the least capable device.

Its very simple. Any and ALL devices that claim that they can play back HD level 4.1 will only do so if the file does not exceed the following limits:
-MAX bitrate of 40Mbit/s(standard says 50, but i'm not 100% sure that it works on all devices at that bitrate)
-MAX ref frame limit of: 8355840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

Its very simple. Any and ALL devices that claim that they can play back HD level 3.1 will only do so if the file does not exceed the following limits:
-MAX bitrate of 17.5 Mbit/s
-MAX ref frame limit of: 6531840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

-----------

Now if i understand correctly you have found an extra limit when the resulting file is played back on a blu-ray player. This limitations should then be valid for all hardware players (that it happens to work on a DXVA player simply means that that device is not as strict with that part of the rules)

[Sharktooth]

post a feature request in the feature request tracker but i think low priority will be assigned to it.

[tetsuo55]

okay cool.

And as far as your presets are concerned. All Hd and SD decoders can and probably should have a single preset as they al act the same (aside from any bugs that might be present)

[shon3i]

I basic agree with tetsuo55 about hardware/bluray profiles, should be one for HD one for SD.

For SD Level 3.0 and 3.1 are fine.

@tetsuo55, your calculation for level 3.1 are wrong.

MaxDPB for level 3.1 is 6750 so when that multiply with 1024 and divide with 1.5 (YV12) you get 4608000 so calculation for max refs are 46080007/(w*h)=max refs, VBV for level 3.1 should be --vbv-maxrate 14000 --vbv-bufsize 14000 for main and --vbv-maxrate 17920 for high profile.

Level 3.0 are more compact for SD video,IIRC all comercial encoders put Level 3.0 on first place, but aslo depends from many factors. I saw some encodes with level 3.2 and working normal on standalones.

[Sharktooth]

nope, as i already said, SD presets has a higher number of refs and if SD preset is used for HD material DXVA wont work.
also levels are different. there are precise specs for HD and SD... so 2 different presets.
everything exceeding the SD res should be encoded with the HD preset.

[saint-francis]

everything exceeding the SD res should be encoded with the HD preset.

I think that in this case the difference between SD and HD needs to be clearly defined.

For example: Is 720p considered SD or HD? ????

Honestly I haven't experimented with 1080p encoding too much recently but I can assure you that all of my 10 reference frame 720p encodings play back with DXVA just fine with MPC HC. I don't use Powerdvd for much more than playing from disk so I don't know what it's capable of. None the less this grey area needs to be addressed.

[tetsuo55]

I basic agree with tetsuo55 about hardware/bluray profiles, should be one for HD one for SD.

For SD Level 3.0 and 3.1 are fine.

@tetsuo55, your calculation for level 3.1 are wrong.

MaxDPB for level 3.1 is 6750 so when that multiply with 1024 and divide with 1.5 (YV12) you get 4608000 so calculation for max refs are 46080007/(w*h)=max refs, VBV for level 3.1 should be --vbv-maxrate 14000 --vbv-bufsize 14000 for main and --vbv-maxrate 17920 for high profile.

Level 3.0 are more compact for SD video,IIRC all comercial encoders put Level 3.0 on first place, but aslo depends from many factors. I saw some encodes with level 3.2 and working normal on standalones.

Yeah 2 hardware profiles
SD
HD

And then the sub profiles fast and anime

Thanks i fixed the formula in the other thread and in MPC-HC

nope, as i already said, SD presets has a higher number of refs and if SD preset is used for HD material DXVA wont work.
also levels are different. there are precise specs for HD and SD... so 2 different presets.
everything exceeding the SD res should be encoded with the HD preset.

We are not suggesting you Blend SD and HD.

We are suggesting that their should be 2 presets


HD
SD
(And then the sub profiles fast and anime)

Then regardless of which hardware unit you actually use you either choose SD or HD depending on the resolution

I think that in this case the difference between SD and HD needs to be clearly defined.

For example: Is 720p considered SD or HD? ????

Honestly I haven't experimented with 1080p encoding too much recently but I can assure you that all of my 10 reference frame 720p encodings play back with DXVA just fine with MPC HC. I don't use Powerdvd for much more than playing from disk so I don't know what it's capable of. None the less this grey area needs to be addressed.

SD is 16*16 to 720*576 (please note the that preset expects you to play back on a Level3.1 capable device, so these encodes might not work on some lower res players like an ipod even if you use the native resolution of an ipod )
HD is 736*???? or ????*592 to 1920*1088

---------

Ideally megui or x264 would have an interactive mode that would use a calculation of "height*width*framerate* to find the lowest possible LEVEL. And then encode at that level. This way the resulting file would be compatible with any device capable of playing that level and any device with a higher level than that. Encoded files would truly be portable across all hardware.

The downside to this approach is that lower levels mean stricter limits on bitrate, a low resolution file encoded at level 3.1 would probably look a lot better visually.

This why i suggest splitting the hardware profiles into 3 parts:
HD, for all hardware that can play this
SD, for all hardware that can play this at native resolution
Custom profiles, based on level limits, for all hardware that do not have/support a 720*576(480) screen(this category already exists, the original xbox would belong here too because of its hardware limits as its actually a software decoder)

Based on the above i would suggest the following

Preset blend suggestion

HD-L4.1-Anime_Toons
HD-L4.1-Fast
HD-L4.1-HQ
HD-L4.1-Insane
SD-L3.1-Anime_Toons
SD-L3.1-Fast
SD-L3.1-HQ
SD-L3.1-Insane
Unrestricted-Anime_Toons
Unrestricted-Fast
Unrestricted-HQ
Unrestricted-Insane
(device specific for handhelds and xbox)
(left over unrestricted profiles)

The Only difference between Unrestricted and HD/SD would be that the unrestricted profiles have been limited with the level limitations, other than that they can be exactly the same (which basically only means a bitrate and ref frame limitation)

[Sharktooth]

I think that in this case the difference between SD and HD needs to be clearly defined.

For example: Is 720p considered SD or HD? ????

Honestly I haven't experimented with 1080p encoding too much recently but I can assure you that all of my 10 reference frame 720p encodings play back with DXVA just fine with MPC HC. I don't use Powerdvd for much more than playing from disk so I don't know what it's capable of. None the less this grey area needs to be addressed.

720p IS HD by definition. also the presets are made to be playable ON EVERY DXVA card with EVERY DECODER supporting DXVA.
MPC-HC decoder is accepting higher parameters than the commercial decoders but usually fails on older vDXVA videocards.

@tetsuo55: ill see what i can do but remember DXVA is not universal and it is a microsoft implementation. Levels are implicit in DXVA 2.0 specs for SD and HD.

Presets updated: v59.

[Sharktooth]

Presets update: V60.

[tetsuo55]

@tetsuo55: ill see what i can do but remember DXVA is not universal and it is a microsoft implementation. Levels are implicit in DXVA 2.0 specs for SD and HD.


DXVA has nothing to do with the videocards ability to decode video. DXVA is simply the language used to communicate between the cpu and the videocard.

The capabilities of videocards to decode h264 streams is no different from other hardware (although there are lots of bugs!)

[Sharktooth]

nope... DXVA is tech that's part of the directx and it was implemented by microsoft.
different video cards have different capabilities, DXVA is made of a common API to let the programmer make common code for different video cards.

[tetsuo55]

nope... DXVA is tech that's part of the directx and it was implemented by microsoft.
different the video card have different capabilities, DXVA is made of a common API to let the programmer make common code for different video cards.

You're right

But because DXVA is such a pain in the ass all newer videocards have "Bitstreaming" which is basically a bluray decoder on the GPU die. If you look closely there is 0 difference between the settings to create a valid bluray file and a valid DXVA file.

[Sharktooth]

...except older DXVA enabled video cards that did that thru GPU programming...

[smackbadger]

Is it possible to start with a DXVA preset, say DXVA-SD-Anime_Toons and change it to a one-pass Quality 22 CRF encode and still have the final output be DXVA compliant, or are 2 passes required to meet the DXVA specs? I'd like my encodes to work if I ever do buy a standalone device in the future, but I have plenty of disk space on my HTPC and I've seen multiple people say that CRF encodes provide better quality if you're not targeting a specific file size.

[Sharktooth]

No. i will add the buffers for DXVA presets to be fully compliant. CRF and VBV (video buffer verifier) wont work as expected.
however it will all depend what will be the max bitrate of CRF 22 encode... if it's below the DXVA specs, it will work.

[tetsuo55]

...except older DXVA enabled video cards that did that thru GPU programming...

Assisted decoder features are either the same or weaker than regular h264 hardware decoders.
That feature is more of a hack than a real hardware decoder(as most of the work is still done in software)

i hope its clear now that aside from a bug here and there(resulting on stricter or looser implementation of the h264 specs) the decoding engine for DXVA and Standalone is exactly the same thing

in other words, anything encoded with the bluray profile will work perfectly fine on a DXVA card and vice-versa


---------

Is it possible to use CRF and limit its bitrate at the same time, or would that make it useless? Depending on SD or HD the bitrate limit can be pretty high

[Sharktooth]

Nope i already told you its not the same. DXVA has no theoretical level and bitrate decoding limits but the videocards ACTUALLY can decode full level 4.1 high profile specs and max bitrate (50Mbps) depending on videocard manufacturer and the decoder used. while blu-ray players have a cap at 40Mbps (10Mbps lower than Level 4.1 HP max bitrate) for discs and 54Mbps for other storage (exceeding level 4.1 by 4mbps for HP) ... and that is by specs.
the 2 things are completely different but videocards have just some things in common with BD players for simplicity. so encoding for DXVA playback wont ensure Blu-Ray compatibility! at all.
h.264 DXVA has different specs than Blu-Ray or other standards: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/c/5fc4ec5c-bd8c-4624-8034-319c1bab7671/DXVA_H264.pdf
more on DXVA 2.0: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa965263.aspx
DXVA is a Microsoft tech... and it's different from anything else.
so this:in other words, anything encoded with the bluray profile will work perfectly fine on a DXVA card and vice-versais NOT true. it's just the ACTUAL DXVA 2.0 compatible hardware can also decode blu-ray video streams. nothing more...
infact, if you think at the Radeon HD 2900 it has DXVA 2.0 support but it is NOT able to decode Blu-Ray streams coz DXVA was implemented thru shaders perfectly respecting the specs but, as i already said, the blu-ray and DXVA specs are different.

for what concerns CRF and bitrate, if you are constrained with a bitrate, CRF has not much sense... use a RC mode.

[tetsuo55]

i read those documents for another reason hehehe. So i agree with you at this point.

It gets even worse(good coding could force DXVA to decode 3.1 streams with the 4.1 engine, thus raising max DPB and allowing 16 ref frames in sd files)

What i am asking for is a single profile that will create a file that will work on both bluray players and DXVA videocards

[Sharktooth]

i dont think ppl will agree on using a "minimum common denominator" preset for both BD and DXVA...
i can add a general use preset that will work for both though but i will not remove any of the BD or DXVA presets.

[chriszxl]

Now 60!!! thx a lot!!!!!!!!

[Sharktooth]

now 60, what?

[sasuke9999]

why did you use trellis 1 with psy RDO and not trellis 2 in DXVA-SD-Anime_Toon? Trellis 2 with psy RDo schould bring the best quali or?

[Sharktooth]

psy-rdo on animes is not so efficient, maybe at all. so i disabled it in all anime/toons presets.
i used trellis 1 to enhance quality. trellis 2 is slow and tends to "flatten" the image in non RDO modes or when psy-rdo is disabled.
feel free to edit our local the preset and use trellis 2 if you want. maybe i will change it at a later time.

[sasuke9999]

so --psy-rd 0 means its deaktivated and --psy-rd 1 aktivated?

[Sharktooth]

psy-rd = 0 deactivated.
it is active BY DEFAULT.

[~bT~]

now 60, what?

presets v60 released.

[tetsuo55]

i dont think ppl will agree on using a "minimum common denominator" preset for both BD and DXVA...
i can add a general use preset that will work for both though but i will not remove any of the BD or DXVA presets.

Wow great solution, thanks! Simple and effective

[Sharktooth]

uhm... DXVA does not support level 4.1 for SD. i have to force level 3.1 but bitrate limits (VBV) will jeopardize BD 1080p encodes.
at this point i dont think it's possible to make it.

[tetsuo55]

uhm... DXVA does not support level 4.1 for SD. i have to force level 3.1 but bitrate limits (VBV) will jeopardize BD 1080p encodes.
at this point i dont think it's possible to make it.

why would 567P(L3.1 SD) settings interfere with 720p/1080p(L4.1HD) settings?

Are you saying that bluray allowes plaback of SD resolution with L4.1 encoding settings? in other words 720x567@16ref frames? Or does it only lift the bitrate limit?

[Sharktooth]

nope im saying i have to make 2 presets, one for SD and one for HD... that is quite useless.
also, DXVA is able to accelerate blu-ray streams... so we already have presets that work on both.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V61.

[tetsuo55]

i'm not finished with all the tests yet but i have a question for you.

if i understand correctly, A standalone bluray player will play any resolution(SD/HD) as long as it stays within the L4.1 limits? In other words a SD stream can be out of L3.1 limits but still work on the standalone?

i have already confirmed this behaviour to be true for DXVA.

---

Also do you have or can you point me to a Bluray edge case? (1920x1080, 54Mbps, 4 ref frames), from tests in the past DXVA was able to decode at least 80Mbps

[Sharktooth]

i'm not finished with all the tests yet but i have a question for you.

if i understand correctly, A standalone bluray player will play any resolution(SD/HD) as long as it stays within the L4.1 limits? In other words a SD stream can be out of L3.1 limits but still work on the standalone?
the blu ray specs says Level 4.1 independently from the resolution.

i have already confirmed this behaviour to be true for DXVA.
Actually i cant remember if DXVA can do the same but i think the actual videocards can since they actually uses almost the same hardware decoders as the blu-ray standalones. that is subject to change though.
Also do you have or can you point me to a Bluray edge case? (1920x1080, 54Mbps, 4 ref frames), from tests in the past DXVA was able to decode at least 80MbpsNope sorry.

[[)370|\|470!2]

pff... damn windows and M$... lost all presets...
proceding with a hard undelete... crossing fingers.

Just wonder: not tired yet of bashing "M$", especially for things you should obviously blame your own incompetence?

[vzmr82]

I know this is a noob question, but I tried to search with no success: how do I delete the old profiles?

The files used to be (in some old version) within megui directory in Program Files, but I can't find them anymore.

Thanks in advance.

RS

[~bT~]

Just wonder: not tired yet of bashing "M$", especially for things you should obviously blame your own incompetence?

sharktooth has been very unwell of late yet he found time to update megui and provide new presets for us all here.

we (majority @ doom9) appreciate his hard work here so go find another thread to post in as your comments don't provide any encouragement or help!

[bond]

Just wonder: not tired yet of bashing "M$", especially for things you should obviously blame your own incompetence?cool down please, striked

[chriszxl]

now 60, what?
nothing..just mean ver.60 on then. :-)
and a question is I most use x264 for 1500-2000kbps source xvid/divx to 600-800 x264.. but I note that deblocking value change in your profile, I wanna know what's diff ? and I think I'd like more sharpen , so whice deblocking value better for me?

[Avenger007]

but I note that deblocking value change in your profile, I wanna know what's diff ? and I think I'd like more sharpen , so whice deblocking value better for me?
Lower deblocking values don't make the image sharper, it just makes block edges more visible and may appear sharper aka placebo effect. ;)
The best deblocking value would generally be the default 0,0; that's probably why it's the default :)

[gav1577]

Hi i have a question about the avchd and bluray profiles why do they both have --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 in them is there any particular reason for this i mean any benefit over standard default values ?
Thanks

[Octo-puss]

I just was testing something and came to an interesting question:

Is it possible that unrestricted 2pass insane profile would result in a LITTLE worse image than the HQ one?

[JarrettH]

Not according to the settings. I looked at both and the difference is just the ridiculous settings not recommended to use are maxxed out. :p

[rica]

Sharktooth; first of all thanks a lot for your hard work!

Do you think it might not be a bad idea to make interlaced DXVA presets since most of the HDTV broadcast is interlaced (at least in Europe)?

And PV2 hard/soft owners can easily watch those re-encoded h264 files in DXVA decoding+deinterlacing mode which created by interlaced DXVA profiles.

I think the file lenght of the created files will be decreased while 1088i=544p.

[florinandrei]

I've been using the Standalone-AVC-HD preset for a while for 1080p content. The results are good, no issues on my PS3.

One question: This preset is supposed to limit the max bitrate to something like 16000kb/s or something like that. And yet, if I encode 2-pass with an average bitrate of about 11000kb/s, when I watch it on the PS3, I see the bitrate going briefly up to like 25Mb/s or so. Isn't that a problem with this preset?

Also, the presets come in an archive format that has issues with some archive management programs. On Windows, I can't extract it with File Explorer, I must use Total Commander if I want to look at individual files.
On Linux, I can't extract files with anything. Weird.

[Octo-puss]

if encoded with DXVA profile, I assume it will still play on PC with non-DXVA card, only it will be slow? or what the difference would be?

[rica]

if encoded with DXVA profile, I assume it will still play on PC with non-DXVA card, only it will be slow? or what the difference would be?

If DXVA compatible card and software don't exist, you will watch even created DXVA re-encodes in software mode and with a high CPU utilization.

[Octo-puss]

I gotta try to see the difference. How exactly are the DXVA profiles different?

[rica]

Octo-puss, you can give it a go with this file if you want:

Original 1920*1080 24p VC1 Terminator3 HD DVD

Used filters for decoding in re-encoding process:

File source(async) > Arcsoft mpeg demux > Arcsoft Video decoder (TMT)

x264 DXVA HD-HQ preset

http://rapidshare.com/files/136868880/EVO_arc.ts.html




_ _ _ _

[Octo-puss]

This is a sample from the source? Or something?
I'll try overnight :)

What kind of CPU usage are we talking about anyway, if it's possible to tell? Roughly!

[rica]

This is a sample from the source? Or something?
I'll try overnight :)

What kind of CPU usage are we talking about anyway, if it's possible to tell? Roughly!

This is a re-encode of the rip from the original HD DVD.

In DXVA mode %4-15 CPU usage with my E6750 and nVidia 8600 GTS. It's gonna be %50-65 without DXVA...

[Octo-puss]

Hmm... I played it and shows about 25% usage on 6750@3.2GHz.

[rica]

When i untick the DXVA feature of the decoder, CPU usage is %35-55...

[Octo-puss]

Untick where?
This is probably beyond me so forget it :)

[florinandrei]

So what would be the lowest common denominator for profiles like PSP, iPod, iPhone, etc? Assuming I want to encode once and play it everywhere. Of course, it would have to be playable on bigger devices such as the PS3, but I assume that's more or less guaranteed, right?

[Atak_Snajpera]

@Sharktooth
PSP profile does not need VBV buffer Size and Max bitrate. PSP supports files even at 25Mbps (720x480) without problems. I would also increase b-frames numbers to 3.
AppleTV according to official website does not support files above 5Mbps (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html)

[Sharktooth]

apple TV supports peaks up to 12mbps and a sustained rate of 5mbps.
as for PSP i simply dont trust sony. they pissed me off for far too long. 10mbps and 3 bframes will be ok for such a POC... 25mbps will break the L3 compliance...
update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch appears...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.

[gav1577]

Hi i have a question about the avchd and bluray profiles why do they both have --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 in them is there any particular reason for this i mean any benefit over standard default values ?
Thanks

Has anyone a answer to my question? Thanks

[Sharktooth]

more etherogeneous quants distribuition.
that means less visual difference between frametypes since TVs are usually overrbright and that may expose some artifacting that wont be visible in the correct viewing conditons.
the obvious counterpart is a small overall quality hit but that is compensated from the above situation. if you're targeting a well calibrated device you should consider using a PC as player with a good Display/TV and then use the DXVA or the Unrestricted presets.

[rack04]

update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.

Is this also true for standalone profiles, more specifically blu-ray?

[Sharktooth]

standalones presets never had b-pyramid enabled expecially the blu-ray presets.

[gav1577]

more etherogeneous quants distribuition.
that means less visual difference between frametypes since TVs are usually overrbright and that may expose some artifacting that wont be visible in the correct viewing conditons.
the obvious counterpart is a small overall quality hit but that is compensated from the above situation. if you're targeting a well calibrated device you should consider using a PC as player with a good Display/TV and then use the DXVA or the Unrestricted presets.

Thanks for the info :)

[Sharktooth]

ok, i think i can publish the presets in the megui autoupdate unless there are some other wrong settings.
please test everything you can and if you find any (expecially HW) compatibility problems please repot back.

[Sem]

does the Xbox/PS3 profile (v62) provide the best possible quality that's compatible with a PS3

or does it just produce standard/average quality that's just guaranteed to work with the ps3

[Sharktooth]

Just wonder: not tired yet of bashing "M$", especially for things you should obviously blame your own incompetence?
nope. i lost all files from a certain date on coz of a rare, critiacal but never fixed fNTFS bug. DAMN M$.
plase note, before posing read the forum rules AND dont blow air thru your mouth unless:
1) you know what you're talking about
2) concerns you (are you a MivcroSux employee? uh... i think not - just a fanboy if my memory serves well...)
3) you have something usefull to say

all those conditions were not met so, please refrain from posting at least until you install a brain into your head.
in the meanwhile if you dont know what to do, go play with WMP, Vista, the crappy VC-1 and all their gazillion problems.
thank you... drive thru.

[Sharktooth]

does the Xbox/PS3 profile (v62) provide the best possible quality that's compatible with a PS3

or does it just produce standard/average quality that's just guaranteed to work with the ps3
very good-"near best" quality without using insane encoder settings otherwise it will take ages to encode...

[Sharktooth]

So what would be the lowest common denominator for profiles like PSP, iPod, iPhone, etc? Assuming I want to encode once and play it everywhere. Of course, it would have to be playable on bigger devices such as the PS3, but I assume that's more or less guaranteed, right?
i think the iPod preset is the lowest common... however i dont recommend that coz of FPS and resolution restrictions...

[Sem]

ok thanks

[tetsuo55]

apple TV supports peaks up to 12mbps and a sustained rate of 5mbps.
as for PSP i simply dont trust sony. they pissed me off for far too long. 10mbps and 3 bframes will be ok for such a POC... 25mbps will break the L3 compliance...
update is coming... say bye to b-pyramid in DXVA presets... this time it is FOREVER until a proper x264 patch appears...
note to self: dont follow advices when you have doubts they wont work.

edit: Presets updated: V62.


I changed the requirements for b-pyramids in my thread too, and i also wanted to suggest you completely remove them until they are fixed.

Thanks for following the advice though, thanks to the discussion it lit up we found not 1 but 2 bugs with the b-pyramids :thanks:

[Sharktooth]

i alredy (v62) left b-pyramids enabled ONLY in unrestricted presets.
software decoders should have no problems with it.

[Sharktooth]

presets are now final. they're in megui autoupdate.
to avoid confusion delete the old ones before importing the new ones.

[Octo-puss]

I deleted all the preset files and after updating and restarting I got some kind of message about profiles not being able to be loaded (though I could select them).
After closing and restarting I get this popup:

System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at MeGUI.OSInfo.GetMOStuff(String queryObject)

MeGUI starts normally after clicking ok.

[Sharktooth]

yes, that was due to the removal of LMP4 encoder in the newer megui version. everything should be ok and working.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: v65.

[rica]

Sharktooth; first of all thanks a lot for your hard work!

Do you think it might not be a bad idea to make interlaced DXVA presets since most of the HDTV broadcast is interlaced (at least in Europe)?

And PV2 hard/soft owners can easily watch those re-encoded h264 files in DXVA decoding+deinterlacing mode which created by interlaced DXVA profiles.

I think the file lenght of the created files will be decreased while 1088i=544p.

Hoping to get any - or + response from shark,
thanks for the new updates btw.

[JarrettH]

Thanks for the continual updates. I have been worried about your health :)

[Sharktooth]

my healt is slowlingly getting worse but at least i partially recovered part of my left eye functionality. so, yes, i can see better now. however i cant stress my sight too much...

@rica: if there is something i really hate, it's interlacing... i firmly think it must die as soon as possible.

[rica]

@rica: if there is something i really hate, it's interlacing... i firmly think it must die as soon as possible.

:thanks:

take care.

[poisondeathray]

For the x264 profiles v65, the Standalone-Xbox_HiRes profile has the enable deblocking box unchecked (the LoRes one is checked, so I think it's just a simple mistake not a compatibility issue?)

[Sharktooth]

nope. it should be lilke that or the xbox wont manage to play the file. it has a slow processor.
note: that preset is for the first xbox ... not the x360...

[BlackPrince]

Superb work Shark. :)

Is it also compatible with StaxRip, or only megui ?

[Sharktooth]

dunno... it's easy to parse and import megui profiles. i dont know if staxrip uses them though.

[Deinorius]

@BlackPrince
Stax said something he would implement kind of importing presets. Up to this time you need to set every preset (or at least the ones you use) for yourself.

But I'm sure he will implement the new presets in a new beta/release.

[Seraphic-]

Was looking over the new presets and this post, but wanted to get some more information on DXVA.

Has video card DXVA assisted playback be supported for awhile now or has it really only come standard recently?
Since I'm encoding for internet distribution, I am wondering how many users would be able to take advantage the feature.

[tetsuo55]

Was looking over the new presets and this post, but wanted to get some more information on DXVA.

Has video card DXVA assisted playback be supported for awhile now or has it really only come standard recently?
Since I'm encoding for internet distribution, I am wondering how many users would be able to take advantage the feature.

The DXVA profiles will create a file guaranteed to work on any DXVA decoder. The file will also work on any Software decoder so its win-win. However the stream might not work on all standalone players like blu-ray players.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: v66.

[chaojenlin]

if i want to encode one movie and let my eeepc can play it through kmplayer, which preset is the best for me?

regard

[Octo-puss]

Not sure if it has anything to do with the presets, but after doing regular update and importing some presets, I get this:

[dant3s]

Hello, I read carefully all threads about new profiles including "dxva" capability. I used until today the old profiles, particulary HD-Insane. After update & reading, I guessed equivalent one in new profile was "DXVA-HD-Insane", but I realized it was not configured in <unrestricted avc level>.
My knowledges are very restricted, but my question is:
Which new profile preset will be equivalent with the old one "HD-Insane", without dxva of course, I don't need it to take advantage for instance.
Thanks a lot for your work. (anf for your reply :p)

[poisondeathray]

Which new profile preset will be equivalent with the old one "HD-Insane", without dxva of course, I don't need it to take advantage for instance.
Thanks a lot for your work. (anf for your reply :p)

I believe "Unrestricted 2pass Insane" would correspond to the old "HD-Insane"

[nawat]

Thank you for your hard work, Sharktooth. Without your profiles, I would be more or less blind on h264 encoding.

By the way, I have one question regarding your new profiles. I used to encode with HQ-Insane and I got around 4.5 fps with my E6420@3.2GHz. However, when I moved to Unrestricted 2pass Insane, the speed dropped to almost 1 fps. Recently, I just bought a Q6600 and with it, the rate is now around 1.6 fps at stock speed (which still should be faster than E6420@3.2GHz). The question is, if the settings for HQ-Insane are maxed out, how could the new Unrestricted 2pass Insane take more time. Is it more maxed out somehow?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

PS. Oh, I have 2 questions after all. Here is the other one. I would like to encode animes to watch on my PSP. Can anything be optimized on the Device-PSP so that it is more efficient when encoding animations? And how are the Anime_Toons profiles optimized for encoding animations?

[elguaxo]

HQ-Insane was using --me umh --merange 16 (I think) and Unrestricted 2pass Insane is using --me tesa --merange 32. There are other small differences, but the ones I mentioned are the ones eating all those fps ;)

[dant3s]

I believe "Unrestricted 2pass Insane" would correspond to the old "HD-Insane"

Thanks a lot ;)

[nawat]

HQ-Insane was using --me umh --merange 16 (I think) and Unrestricted 2pass Insane is using --me tesa --merange 32. There are other small differences, but the ones I mentioned are the ones eating all those fps ;)

Thanks. So it is more insane after all... Maybe I should switch to HQ since it is TOO insane.

[Octo-puss]

I was wondering, why are there no non-DXVA HD presets?

[dant3s]

After some encoding tests, I obtained different encoding times (fps/s) according 2 presets, "x264: Unrestricted 2pass HQ" or "x264: Unrestricted 2pass Insane".
for "HQ" one, I obtained 3.5 fps/s ,and for "Insane" one 0.3 fps/s lol ^^ it's a great difference !
I asked for myself if we can find a preset between these ones, provided encoding speed/time to be faster than Insane (and surely slower than HQ).
I'm sure it's possible, but which parameters could be modified in this case ?
My knowledges are still basic, but it could be achieved by changing (for HQ preset) :
-> "number of reference frames " from 5 to 10
-> "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

I'm right or wrong ?
Thanks for your lights ;)

[Dark Eiri]

The Unrestricted - HQ would be equivalent to the old HQ-Slow or HQ-Slowest?

[saint-francis]

I was wondering, why are there no non-DXVA HD presets?

I think you misunderstand. The "HD" in the HD DXVA presets. The emphasis is on the DXVA and not the HD. It is just settings that will be hardware compatible with 1080p. You can use any of the presets you like with any resolution you like.

[saint-francis]

After some encoding tests, I obtained different encoding times (fps/s) according 2 presets, "x264: Unrestricted 2pass HQ" or "x264: Unrestricted 2pass Insane".
for "HQ" one, I obtained 3.5 fps/s ,and for "Insane" one 0.3 fps/s lol ^^ it's a great difference !
I asked for myself if we can find a preset between these ones, provided encoding speed/time to be faster than Insane (and surely slower than HQ).
I'm sure it's possible, but which parameters could be modified in this case ?
My knowledges are still basic, but it could be achieved by changing (for HQ preset) :
-> "number of reference frames " from 5 to 10
-> "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

I'm right or wrong ?
Thanks for your lights ;)

You could try raising bframes and ref frames. And you might want to also change "subpixel refinement" level 6 to level 7

The Unrestricted - HQ would be equivalent to the old HQ-Slow or HQ-Slowest?

No. There are differences between all three of them.

[dant3s]

Merci Saint-Francis :)
In fact, my worry is about output file quality. I'm sure that encoding time will be longer with ref frames=10 & subpixel refinement.
I perform some tests, but I would reach a nice combination between encoding time / quality, with the old presets reference.

PS: will "No Fast P-skip" affect encoding time ?

[JarrettH]

You should try Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ if you're after overall quality. I used to use 2 pass trying to target sizes, but it only ended up giving lesser and highly variable quality.
I end up with smaller and better looking files than I would have got trying to target a 2 pass at 1.4gb or something decent.

Here's a few: Lost Highway (1.27gb), There Will Be Blood (2.25gb), Dark City (1.05gb) all with AC3 audio.

I think There Will Be Blood came out the largest not due to its length, but because of the excellent source!

[dant3s]

You should try Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ if you're after overall quality. I used to use 2 pass trying to target sizes, but it only ended up giving lesser and highly variable quality.
I end up with smaller and better looking files than I would have got trying to target a 2 pass at 1.4gb or something decent.

Here's a few: Lost Highway (1.27gb), There Will Be Blood (2.25gb), Dark City (1.05gb) all with AC3 audio.

I think There Will Be Blood came out the largest not due to its length, but because of the excellent source!

I believe in target file size and VBR encoding.
Thanks for your help ;)

[Octo-puss]

I think you misunderstand. The "HD" in the HD DXVA presets. The emphasis is on the DXVA and not the HD. It is just settings that will be hardware compatible with 1080p. You can use any of the presets you like with any resolution you like.

Oh I see! What exactly is hardware 1080p compatible? I thought compatibility would only be an issue for some desktop players or so?

[Dark Eiri]

No. There are differences between all three of them.

Yes, yes, but the quality outputted will be comparable to which one?

[dirk362]

Overall, is the aim of x264_dp_ Unrestricted 2pass Insane.xml to get the true best quality with a fixed size 2-pass ?

Having spent some time performing literally dozens of comparisons of a reflective chapter of an HD-DVD with parameter adjustments, and "to the human eye" comparisons of output, can I ask what is most likely a series of stupid question...

Within the Unrestricted profiles of HQ and Insane we have 6 parameters to compare

Parameter HQ Insane
NbBframes 4 16
noFastPSkip false true
NbRefFrames 5 16
SubPelRefinement 5 6
MeType 2 4
MeRange 16 32

So my questions are:-


Why not just set B-Frames to 16 in all cases as the encoder will dynamically adjust anyway and only use what it needs ?
Does noFastPSkip add to encoding time ? If not, then why not always set to true in HQ and Insane ?
I'd always thought more than 5 Ref Frames generated little or no benefit for quality for anything other than large repetition within the frame (e.g. animation). Normal movies won't get much if any benefit from values higher than 5. What benefit will more Ref Frames give on quality vs the encoding time ?
If going for Insane, why not use subme of 7, or is the belief that 7 over 6 adds little to quality but significantly affects encode time (I've noted that using 7 does slow the whole process quite significantly) ?
Using ME of ESA seems of limited use as its massively slower than UMH, and most people really can't see the difference when taking into account other parameters we're adjusting.
MERange seems to be incredibly useful to improve quality to human eye as it allows more pixels to be checked for motion, but it does add significantly to encode time. I've done some encodes using 32 and 64, and 64 seems much better in overall 2-pass quality, but does add to encode time.

So, if the aim is to get best quality in fixed size 2-pass, I'd wonder whether people would find it better to increase MERange, but decrease ME ?

My own personal experience, and in no way to deflect from the truly exceptional work to generate these profiles, would be to use (for Insane encodes):-

<NbBframes>16</NbBframes>
<noFastPSkip>true</noFastPSkip>
<NbRefFrames>5</NbRefFrames>
<SubPelRefinement>7</SubPelRefinement>
<METype>3</METype>
<MERange>64</MERange>
<VBVBufferSize>0</VBVBufferSize>
<VBVMaxBitrate>0</VBVMaxBitrate>
<DeadZoneInter>6</DeadZoneInter>
<DeadZoneIntra>4</DeadZoneIntra>

I find deblock 1:0:0 with adjusted deadzones is preferable to deblock 1:-1:-1 as this has a tendancy to introduce blocks on HD content when using 21,11 deadzones)

Insane encodes are going to take on average twice as long as HQ encodes when using subme=7 and merange=64 as there is a lot more to calculate against. But you will always get a better quality output (in my experience).

[Avenger007]

Overall, is the aim of x264_dp_ Unrestricted 2pass Insane.xml to get the true best quality with a fixed size 2-pass ?
Those are all just profiles - predefined settings fed to x264. They can in no way guarantee "true best quality" for all the sources you use.
Those two profiles generally give "best quality" with regard to the internal metrics used, BUT the difference between the two is probably small in general.

Why not just set B-frames to 16 in all cases as the encoder will dynamically adjust anyway and only use what it needs ?
With the new B-Frame optimization patch (coming soon :p) the encoding time will take a lot longer with each additional B-frame.
3 b-frames is generally the most practical; higher values offer little advantage except perhaps for anime.

Does noFastPSkip add to encoding time ? If not, then why not always set to true in HQ and Insane ?
Yes it does add to the encoding time by a fair amount.

I'd always thought more than 5 Ref Frames generated little or no benefit for quality for anything other than large repetition within the frame (e.g. animation). Normal movies won't get much if any benefit from values higher than 5. What benefit will more Ref Frames give on quality vs the encoding time ?
Normal movies won't get much benefit from values higher than 6 refs, but there is still a benefit (couple percent perhaps, depends on source)

If going for Insane, why not use subme of 7, or is the belief that 7 over 6 adds little to quality but significantly affects encode time (I've noted that using 7 does slow the whole process quite significantly) ?
Insane uses subme 7. Those values in the XML file are indexed from 0.

Using ME of ESA seems of limited use as its massively slower than UMH, and most people really can't see the difference when taking into account other parameters we're adjusting.
Insane uses --me-tesa. Again, those kinds of settings are the reason why the profile is called Insane. They may improve internal metrics but visually they mean exactly squat :devil:

MERange seems to be incredibly useful to improve quality to human eye as it allows more pixels to be checked for motion, but it does add significantly to encode time. I've done some encodes using 32 and 64, and 64 seems much better in overall 2-pass quality, but does add to encode time.
Higher MERange would be useful for high resolution sources with fast motion, i.e. objects travel over many macroblocks between each frame. 64 might be good for 1080p (just a guess, I haven't tried it)

So, if the aim is to get best quality in fixed size 2-pass, I'd wonder whether people would find it better to increase MERange, but decrease ME ?
That will work if it's favorable for the source.

My own personal experience, and in no way to deflect from the truly exceptional work to generate these profiles, would be to use (for Insane encodes):-

<NbBframes>16</NbBframes>
<noFastPSkip>true</noFastPSkip>
<NbRefFrames>5</NbRefFrames>
<SubPelRefinement>7</SubPelRefinement>
<METype>3</METype>
<MERange>64</MERange>
<VBVBufferSize>0</VBVBufferSize>
<VBVMaxBitrate>0</VBVMaxBitrate>
<DeadZoneInter>6</DeadZoneInter>
<DeadZoneIntra>4</DeadZoneIntra>

Use x264 command line settings; leave the XML for Sharktooth.

I find deblock 1:0:0 with adjusted deadzones is preferable to deblock 1:-1:-1 as this has a tendancy to introduce blocks on HD content when using 21,11 deadzones)
The best thing you've said in your entire post! ;)

Insane encodes are going to take on average twice as long as HQ encodes when using subme=7 and merange=64 as there is a lot more to calculate against. But you will always get a better quality output (in my experience).

Again, most of the time the difference can only be seen with metrics but not visually.

Finally, psy-rdo + psy-trellis nullifies most of those differences.
In the end, you're better of learning exactly what each setting does so you can fine tune them to your source if you really want "true best quality".

Next time :search: , those questions have been answered in detail already, I just gave those answers from what I remember.

[Octo-puss]

One more somewhat lame question. I was suggested to use constant quality for encoding one particular HD stuff - and also to make it DXVA compatible if possible. But there's no constant quality preset in the DXVA category, all are 2pass. Using constant quality would be bad for some compatibility or how is it? I am pretty new to this, only have experience with DVDs so far, so it's quite confusing.

[Sharktooth]

1pass VBV compliancy is not optimal.
just use 2 passes if you have VBV restrictions (DXVA has them...).

[Octo-puss]

edited

When using DXVA presets, the video must be resized to mod16? I tried to encode something and was given an error message:

Your AviSynth clip has the following problem:
AviSynth clip doesn't have mod16 dimensions:
Width: 1920
Height:1080
This could cause problems with some encoders,
and will also result in a loss of compressibility.
I suggest you resize to a mod16 resolution.
Continue anyway?

I think I don't get this with unrestricted profiles.

[dant3s]

The posts from Dirk362 & Avenger007 are very interesting. Thanks to take time to explain taking experience in count.
I just have a question about deblock 1:0:0, how it can be modified in the preset, I see the Deblocking window in Main Tab... but It doesn't appear in the command line window?

[Sharktooth]

@octo-puss :search:

presets updated: v67

[dirk362]

The posts from Dirk362 & Avenger007 are very interesting. Thanks to take time to explain taking experience in count.
I just have a question about deblock 1:0:0, how it can be modified in the preset, I see the Deblocking window in Main Tab... but It doesn't appear in the command line window?
x264 has lots of default values. If you enable a setting, such as deblock, it will use its default unless you change it. Therefore unless you change any settings in the Main Tab to be anything other than 0 and 0, it will assume defaults, which are 1:0:0. If you wish to put this in use the custom command line optional area in Advanced tab, but it will be irrelevant. If you change the settings in the Main tab to anything other than 0, the command line window will be updated accordingly.
If you type in a command prompt when x264.exe is located x264 --longhelp you will find all the settings, and default values etc.

With the new B-Frame optimization patch (coming soon ) the encoding time will take a lot longer with each additional B-frame.
3 b-frames is generally the most practical; higher values offer little advantage except perhaps for anime.
Having read in detail (and re-read a couple of areas as its quite a complex subject) that forum entry (link (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139827)), I can see that in future values for b-frames might be 3 as you've suggested. But that is a while away, and I was commenting on non-patched x264 versions of parameters etc. I fully expect to have to test and potentially refresh all my profiles and parameters once this --b-adapt=2 becomes available and the default.

Higher MERange would be useful for high resolution sources with fast motion, i.e. objects travel over many macroblocks between each frame. 64 might be good for 1080p (just a guess, I haven't tried it)
Most of my testing is with 1080p, and I've found 32 works well across a wide range of live action movies. When encoding time isn't an issue, and only for 1080p, setting to 64, whilst dramatically increasing encoding time, lends itself to higher perceived quality due to better ME.

[Seraphic-]

The DXVA profiles will create a file guaranteed to work on any DXVA decoder. The file will also work on any Software decoder so its win-win. However the stream might not work on all standalone players like blu-ray players.

Are the DXVA profiles unable to attain the same quality as the Unrestricted ones since they are bound by setting limitations?

Also, are profile settings interchangeable? Meaning, if the preset is set to Automated Two-Pass, can it be changed to say Const. Quality and vis versa without complications? Or are those settings only meant to be used with their default mode?

Last, if you use Const. Quality of say 18 and after the encode it says the output bit-rate was around 4956, would using that number with VBR two-pass return the same quality?

[nurbs]

Are the DXVA profiles unable to attain the same quality as the Unrestricted ones since they are bound by setting limitations?
There are some restrictions for the DXVA profiles that limit the number of reference frames depending on resolution, the number of b-frames and there are the VBV constraints. While you can get better quality with the unrestricted profiles the quality gain will generally be small. Cartoons would probably benefit most from breaking the restrictions.

Also, are profile settings interchangeable? Meaning, if the preset is set to Automated Two-Pass, can it be changed to say Const. Quality and vis versa without complications? Or are those settings only meant to be used with their default mode?
Generally they can be changed, but x264 is not as good at sticking to VBV restraints in 1pass as in 2pass. That might also lead to quality issues.

Last, if you use Const. Quality of say 18 and after the encode it says the output bit-rate was around 4956, would using that number with VBR two-pass return the same quality?
Basically yes.

[Seraphic-]

Thanks.

Also, when you enable Turbo mode, it allows for faster encoding, but causes a quality drop, correct?

And does it matter if MeGUI shows my CPU as an Intel Pentium III Xeon when it is an Intel Core 2 Quad (like not taking advantage of all cores during encoding)?

[Sharktooth]

turbo mode allows a faster first pass. the drop in quality is negligible.
also megui is just a gui... the encoding is done by the encoder... so it doesnt really matter what CPU is shown.

[Octo-puss]

Not sure if it has anything to do with the presets, but after doing regular update and importing some presets, I get this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1173951&postcount=182
and again after updating presets via autoupdate

[Sharktooth]

doesnt happen here.
i updated the presets as well and everything is working and didnt crash.

[Octo-puss]

It happens to me ALL THE TIME. I don't know. Right after I click to overwrite the last preset or after checking "don't ask again". And so it does if I delete the presets first. The only working method is manually importing.

[Sharktooth]

i do it every time i publish the new presets... and it doesnt crash...
is your system up to date? have you tried reinstalling megui from scratch?

[Octo-puss]

I can try. But can't test until new version of profiles is out :D
(I assume the whole package is updated each time?)

[Dark Eiri]

No Fast-PSkip is really not needed on Unrestricted HQ? I remember reading somewhere that disabling it can cause blocky backgrounds, right?

[lithiumus]

How does going from Trellis 1 to 2 affect encoding time in general vs. quality?

[Dark Shikari]

No Fast-PSkip is really not needed on Unrestricted HQ? I remember reading somewhere that disabling it can cause blocky backgrounds, right?Not anymore, with AQ, but I'd definitely put it in an "ultra high quality" profile, especially if tesa or trellis 2 is already being used.

[Sharktooth]

I can try. But can't test until new version of profiles is out :D
(I assume the whole package is updated each time?)
options->update then right click on the profiles and selct "force (re)install"
How does going from Trellis 1 to 2 affect encoding time in general vs. quality?
in general, it slowers the encoding, and gives better quality.

[check]

Why does the PS3-Xbox360 preset have nonstandard --ipratio and --pbratio?

[Sharktooth]

already answered that one :)
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1170270#post1170270

[egrimisu]

one question : Audio - force decode via Directshow or not? some versions of the presets have the setting checked some versions not... now i don't know witch is best!!! updated to the latest preset on my notebook and seting was unchecked, updated on my pc and setting was checked. Now who is checking!! updater or some ghost in my pc ;) ?

[Sharktooth]

there is no best. use what works best for you.
ensure you have the same versions of the presets

[florinandrei]

One feature that I would very much appreciate would be the ability to just "Select All" when new presets are being released. Clicking through that big list is not a lot of fun.
And yea, I don't necessarily use all of them, but I'd like to stay updated in case I decide to use a new preset.

I guess this is a MeGUI feature request?

[Sharktooth]

it's already there... right click->check all.

[florinandrei]

more etherogeneous quants distribuition.
that means less visual difference between frametypes since TVs are usually overrbright and that may expose some artifacting that wont be visible in the correct viewing conditons.
the obvious counterpart is a small overall quality hit but that is compensated from the above situation. if you're targeting a well calibrated device you should consider using a PC as player with a good Display/TV and then use the DXVA or the Unrestricted presets.

Keep in mind some of us actually do calibrate their TVs, and use a PS3 as a player. So these profiles are now less than optimal for people with calibrated screens.

I think there should be no penalty for correctly setting up your gear. If anyone takes a penalty, it should be people with non-calibrated displays. Those tend to care less about quality anyway.

Personally, I use the AVCHD profile (I create AVCHD disks on DL DVD) and I'm not sure where that profile stands on this issue (and I can't verify right now), but I'm speaking in principle.

It's those who care less that should take the hit.

[egrimisu]

Of course i selecteed them all the diference is that on my pc for all the preset the decode via directshow was activated and on my notebook not. Do you think that i uncheke/check the settings for about 30 presets? the idea was that i want to keep the quality as closer to the original and i don't know in what metter directshoe affect the quality. Thanks

One feature that I would very much appreciate would be the ability to just "Select All" when new presets are being released. Clicking through that big list is not a lot of fun.
And yea, I don't necessarily use all of them, but I'd like to stay updated in case I decide to use a new preset.

I guess this is a MeGUI feature request?

[Sharktooth]

@grimisu: it's impossible... all the presets come with "Force directshow decoding" disabled... so either you didnt import the profiles or megui cant write to the profiles dir but that will result in a crash...

@florinandrei: simple answer. most ppl do not calibrate it, also consoles have questionable output quality (for example the same DVD looks different from the PS3 to the X360), so..

[egrimisu]

i found the bug, probably is because ui'm using vista x64 : once i set the filter to use directshow and save the profile, all the profiles remain with that setting checked.If you have vista x64 test. Thanks again

[lithiumus]

Keep in mind some of us actually do calibrate their TVs, and use a PS3 as a player. So these profiles are now less than optimal for people with calibrated screens.

I think there should be no penalty for correctly setting up your gear. If anyone takes a penalty, it should be people with non-calibrated displays. Those tend to care less about quality anyway.

Personally, I use the AVCHD profile (I create AVCHD disks on DL DVD) and I'm not sure where that profile stands on this issue (and I can't verify right now), but I'm speaking in principle.

It's those who care less that should take the hit.

Though I don't disagree with your comment, you are not bound in any way to use these profiles. You can adjust the profiles to your liking. The key is that you now understand why and can adjust to YOUR personal liking.

The quality hit is so small that it's hard to tell the quality difference unless you are doing screen cap comparisons and zooms.

On the other hand, the trellis 2 increases encode time significantly i.e. 30-40% longer so unless you've got a nice quad core, you might want to stick with trellis 1.

[Sharktooth]

exactly. nothing stops you to restore the default values or any other settings you like most.

[gav1577]

Hi i have a question about the avchd and bluray profiles what is the cmd --mvrange 511 for what does it do and do i really need it in the cmd line ?

Thanks

[Sharktooth]

it shouldnt, but i always forgot to check if BD/AVCHD needs 511 or can accept the default 511.75...

[gav1577]

it shouldnt, but i always forgot to check if BD/AVCHD needs 511 or can accept the default 511.75...

Ok i will try without it i cant see .75 being a big issue thanks for your reply :)

[Sharktooth]

please report back

[gav1577]

please report back

Ok will do

EDIT ok done a few test clips and played back on a pc and ps3 and and i cant tell the difference between the two IMHO

[Sharc]

All Standalone profiles have very short GOPs (Keyframe Interval, Min GOP Size) as opposed to the Unrestricted profiles.
Is the GOP size limitation given by standalone compatibility constraints?

[nurbs]

Is the GOP size limitation given by standalone compatibility constraints?

Yes. :)

[Sharc]

Thanks. Is this specified in Blu-Ray standard or similar? I idn't find anything about the GOP constraints.
Why this limitation to short GOPs? Lower HW decoder cost / less complexity, I presume.

[hajj_3]

where is the "HQ Slower" profile, i liked that 1, cant remember what settings it used, can someone help me, thanks.

[Sharktooth]

Unrestricted 2pass HQ or, if you want DXVA compatibility for playback, DXVA SD/HD HQ

[nurbs]

Thanks. Is this specified in Blu-Ray standard or similar? I idn't find anything about the GOP constraints.
Why this limitation to short GOPs? Lower HW decoder cost / less complexity, I presume.

It's in the blu-ray standard as far as I know. I think they use it so you can have a smooth fast forward and rewind, because you have at least one seekable frame about every second.

[Atak_Snajpera]

It's in the blu-ray standard as far as I know. I think they use it so you can have a smooth fast forward and rewind, because you have at least one seekable frame about every second.
Good explanation! You don't have to use those crazy keyint values.

[Sharc]

So I could actually use larger keyint (like 250, x264 default) and the files - authored with tsmuxer - should still be playable on a BD standalone which claims to be AVC HD compliant?

[Seraphic-]

When encoding to HD DXVA specs with Megui's preset (1276x716p - 6,000 bitrate), I had some playback issues that are not there when using software decoding.
Have two ATI 3870's in crossfire and their GPU usage is at 4% with software playback and they go to 10% using hardware.
But with the playback slowdowns/stops, not sure if I should continue to use DXVA or just go unrestricted. (thinking unrestricted at this point)

(I'm encoding for internet distribution)

[nurbs]

So I could actually use larger keyint (like 250, x264 default) and the files - authored with tsmuxer - should still be playable on a BD standalone which claims to be AVC HD compliant?

I don't know what AVC-HD allows, sorry, but I don't think you can use larger gops if it is still supposed to work in a normal BD structure.

Have two ATI 3870's in crossfire and their GPU usage is at 4% with software playback and they go to 10% using hardware.

Wouldn't you expect the GPU usage to go up if you use it for decoding instead of the CPU?

But with the playback slowdowns/stops, not sure if I should continue to use DXVA or just go unrestricted. (thinking unrestricted at this point)

Unrestricted probably doesn't offer that many advantages in your case. At that resolution you can use up to 7 refs IIRC, the VBV restrictions also shoudn't be a problem and p4x4 probably doesn't offer any significant quality gain.

edit: About the playback issues, maybe it's because the resolution is not mod16.

[Seraphic-]

Wouldn't you expect the GPU usage to go up if you use it for decoding instead of the CPU?

Yes, yes you would.
Was pointing out the how much of a difference there was though.
To be honest. I thought it would be higher then just 10% usage on the GPUs.

About the playback issues, maybe it's because the resolution is not mod16.

Most my videos will not be mod16. Not sure if that causes the playback issues though.

[Sharc]

Good explanation! You don't have to use those crazy keyint values.
It's in the blu-ray standard as far as I know. I think they use it so you can have a smooth fast forward and rewind, because you have at least one seekable frame about every second.
Thanks guys, I finally found the discussion on the subject here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1118032#post1118032
Seems that using max keyint 24 is on the safe side for BD standalones compliancy.

[Sharktooth]

Most my videos will not be mod16. Not sure if that causes the playback issues though.
DXVA requires mod 16.
Good explanation! You don't have to use those crazy keyint values.
false. you have to use them to be sure all BD players can play your encodings (and not only PS3s) and all authoring softwares accept your encoded streams... PS3 is NOT a blu-ray player. it's a console that can play blu-rays... and does not strictly follows/enforces the bd specs.

[nurbs]

In my defence, I never said you could use longer intervals. I just gave my opinion on why they chose such a short maximum GOP lenght.