New Decrypting Method

[Wombler]

For those that are interested the latest DVDFab HD Decrypter beta (http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=227720) features a brand new decrypting algorithm.

It's called PathPlayer and is able to determine which content on the disc is accessible by a stand alone DVD player.

The theory being that all the protection is in the areas that DVD players never see.

Sounds extremely promising to me.


Wombler

[nevragain]

this definitely looks interesting because I sometimes wish rippers worked more like standalone players, more skipping over errors mainly.

[HyperHacker]

But doesn't that mean it won't back up any bonus content intended for PC users, such as wallpapers?

[Doom9]

But doesn't that mean it won't back up any bonus content intended for PC users, such as wallpapers?Since when do current rippers do that unless you create a 1:1 copy? And there's no stopping you from copying files manually.

[bourtzovlakas]

If i am not tottaly mistaken, this is something that RipIt4Me also does...
....it just doesn't have a fancy name for it....

[setarip_old]

@bourtzovlakas

Hi!

Although it's not specifically stated, my interpretation is that the described methodology should be capable of circumventing the type of protection used on the German releases of "Das Parfum" and very few others - that had, among other things (If I understand correctly) multiple .IFOs with the same name.

Thusfar, to my knowledge, that is still the ONLY protection scheme that RipIt4Me cannot conquer.

If, on the other hand, "PathPlayer" likewise cannot handle the "Das Parfum" protection, then you are very likely correct in that it would be nothing more than "Step 3B" and then FixVTS in RipIt4Me...

BTW - Is it possible that this "PathPlayer" is intended for HD DVDs, rather than standard DVDs?

[linx05]

@setarip_old, it is indeed made for standard DVDs. AnyDVD should have their AI Scanner out soon which I cannot wait for.

[blutach]

Yes, it sounds like Fengtao has adopted RipIt4Me's methodology (and perhaps AI scanner is based on the same premise). Interesting to see it re-surface.

@setarip_old - the issues with the German DVDs were related to reading the DVD in the first place (corrupted filesystem), not decrypting it. DVD Fab Decrypter has, to my knowledge, conquered that issue.

Regards

[linx05]

I remember a while back people were asking DVD copy program developers to add this sort of feature. Does anybody remember what their reply was? It was never added (besides in RipIt4Me in a way) so there had to be a reason.

What I am interested in is how companies are going to combat this solution. More power to us honest people.

[blutach]

Quite frankly, it is probably not able to be combated successfully. So long as the program can read the IFOs, menu buttons and BOVs, it can determine which PGCs are played and which are not. It can then totally ignore (or better still make into dummies) the useless PGCs (which usually contain the advanced protection). As well, PGCs which are not referenced in any way can be eliminated.

However, this analysis of "pushing every button" comes at the expense of the time it takes to do. If there are many levels of menus, each having lots of buttons, with no PUOps, it may take some time to go thru the lot. For practicality's sake, a maximum depth will need to be adopted.

Schemes which can successfully "fool" the program into performing a bad navigation (or just flood it with data) will perhaps work. We saw this notably with DVD games and RipIt4Me. Other schemes whch can prevent the proper reading of the IFOs and buttons (already tried and failing in Germany) should also be successful.

But in the decrypting program's war on encryption, this "player emulation" is about as advanced as you can get - which is why RipIt4Me was - and is - so successful.

(Please note that this post is for comment only and in no way is it meant to encourage or assist people to rip DVD-Videos. People should, at all times, respect the rights of copyright holders).

Regards

[Wombler]

However, this analysis of "pushing every button" comes at the expense of the time it takes to do. If there are many levels of menus, each having lots of buttons, with no PUOps, it may take some time to go thru the lot. For practicality's sake, a maximum depth will need to be adopted.

According to Fengtao the time taken to do this analysis shouldn't take any more than about 30 seconds for current discs so the overhead mightn't be as bad as you'd think.


Wombler

[HyperHacker]

Well if the disc, for example, contained a menu loop (button A on menu 1 opens menu 2, and button B on menu 2 opens menu 1), or (if possible) buttons leading to some invalid data or something that are placed such that they could never be activated by a human, the program might follow them blindly and get stuck. It shouldn't be too hard to prevent this, though.

Another possible option is to actually display the menus and have the user navigate them as normal, selecting what they want to copy.

[Wombler]

Another possible option is to actually display the menus and have the user navigate them as normal, selecting what they want to copy.

That method would be laborious and wouldn't work in all circumstances.

For example hidden "Easter eggs".

Automatic analysis is the only satisfactory and comprehensive way to go.


Wombler

[setarip_old]

@blutach

Hi!(Please note that this post is for comment only and in no way is it meant to encourage or assist people to rip DVD-Videos. People should, at all times, respect the rights of copyright holders).This appears to contradict the entire purpose and reasoning of the "Decrypting" sub-forum with regard to purchased DVDs...

[jinjin_jp]

It's called PathPlayer and is able to determine which content on the disc is accessible by a stand alone DVD player.

I have thoght provious versions search whether unplayed or played, too.
Because Fab asks to ignore read-error or not when reading DVD which I scrathed intentionally, but seems to ignore without ask when reading DVD contains RipGuard protection.

The difference is serching partly only when read-error or seaching all at first ?

Regards.

[blutach]

@setarip_old

Au contraire! Rule 6 strongly shows that we respect the rights of copyright holders.

Please do not make meaningless posts - observe rule 3.

Regards

[blutach]

According to Fengtao the time taken to do this analysis shouldn't take any more than about 30 seconds for current discs so the overhead mightn't be as bad as you'd think.On most DVDs that would be true, but DVDs which have many paths to trace may take longer. Anyway, I am not a time junkie.

Regards

[setarip_old]

With full recognition of the fact that you are a moderator here, I disagree with your statements:

1) Rule #6 does not pertain to making backup copies of (as I specifically stated in my previous post) purchased media

2) The fact that I take exception to something you've posted does not make my post meaningless. I'm seeking clarification from you regarding your footnote (as a moderator), which appears to indicate that there is suddenly a reason to no longer make postings regarding making backup copies of purchased media:Please note that this post is for comment only and in no way is it meant to encourage or assist people to rip DVD-Videos. The "Decrypting" sub-forum and several other sub-forums here are specifically indicated to be for the purpose of discussing "ripping"/"copying"/"creating backups" of (purchased) DVDs. These are the captions of some of the sub-forums:Decrypting
How do I get the files on my (HD)DVD / Blu-Ray disc to my harddisk?Newbies
If you're new to DVD ripping please post your questions here.One click DVD backup solutions
Everything about DVD2One, DVD95Copy, DVD Shrink and Instant Copy.DoitFast4U, BatchCCEWS, ScenAid & NuMenu4u
tools for doing full DVD backup the way it's supposed to bePlease be good enough to clarify...

[blutach]

No - and stop taking this off topic.

Strike issued.

Regards

[Wombler]

I have thoght provious versions search whether unplayed or played, too.
Because Fab asks to ignore read-error or not when reading DVD which I scrathed intentionally, but seems to ignore without ask when reading DVD contains RipGuard protection.

The difference is serching partly only when read-error or seaching all at first ?

Regards.

The new version analyses the full disc and determines all playable paths first.


Wombler

[Wombler]

On most DVDs that would be true, but DVDs which have many paths to trace may take longer. Anyway, I am not a time junkie.

Regards

True. Even on extreme discs a short time extra won't really be much of a problem.


Wombler

[jinjin_jp]

@Wombler
The new version analyses the full disc and determines all playable paths first.
I understand. :thanks:

[RickA]

Yes, I think the search time scanning for what can be actually played may increase somewhat is well spent. That should all even out versus the time wasted trying to rip unwanted protection data from the disc and cleaning it up afterwards. Such as cycling trays, slower rip speeds, inserting dummy sectors, cleaning VOB's and the like. 'Six of one, half a dozen of another?' as the saying goes.

Cheers

[SamuriHL]

If it means not having to wait for an update to deal with a new copy protection, it can take an hour for all I care. :D I think this functionality has been badly needed by all the great rippers. And I think this is slightly different from what R4M does if I'm not mistaken. R4M scans the disc for errors and creates a PSL file to tell DVD Decrypter to skip those sections of the disc, does it not? It's not actually parsing the IFO to find all the readable sections of the disc...it's in fact taking the opposite approach and finding all the non-readable sections and then using FixVTS to validate each VTS and removing invalid ones. At least, that's my understanding of how it works. Perhaps I'm wrong on this point. In any case, I for one applaud this new functionality and can't wait to see Slysoft implement their on the fly version in AnyDVD.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi!

I believe that "Step 3B" of RipIt4Me, performed after the applicationof the PSL (and before the use of FixVTS) performs an analysis similar to what's being described for this new version of DVDFab Decrypter HD...

[SamuriHL]

Interesting. I was not aware of that. Thanks for the info! In that case, R4M does far more than I thought. This would explain its almost legendary status of one of the best ripping packages out there. It's nice to see the other rippers finally implement similar technology. Only time will tell if they are as successful at it as R4M.

[setarip_old]

As a point of information, it's been noted in another thread here today, that this new "PathPlayer" process is apparently not capable of processing the R1 version of "Blade - House of Chthon".

Among other possible protections, the DVD contains outrageously apparent huge .IFOs and .BUPs, differing filesizes between .IFOs and their respective .BUPs, and apparent (file references only) triplicated .VOBs, resulting in an apparent DVD with a combined filesize of 11Gb.

It looks like FengTao will have to "go back to the drawing board"...

[blutach]

This sounds just like the German DVDs (which I thought DVDFD could read). Interesting to see the encryption technology migrate to the US.

I would think it is a matter of being able to read the IFOs.

Regards

[setarip_old]

This sounds just like the German DVDs (which I thought DVDFD could read).Actually, the most recent threads regarding "Das Parfum" (in May) indicated that DVD Fab Decrypter was "still having problems" with it...

[SamuriHL]

This is indeed a variation of the ProtectVideo ugliness as seen in Germany. As of yet, none of the rippers can handle it as far as I know. It's only a matter of time, however.

[setarip_old]

As of yet, none of the rippers can handle it as far as I know.However, it totally surprised me when I discovered that the ANCIENT SmartRipper was easily (In less than 10minutes) able to rip a "movie only" copy of the aforementioned the R1 version of "Blade - House of Chthon"!

[SamuriHL]

However, it totally surprised me when I discovered that the ANCIENT SmartRipper was easily (In less than 10minutes) able to rip a "movie only" copy of the aforementioned the R1 version of "Blade - House of Chthon"!

You have no idea how hard I laughed when I first read your post about that. :) I find it absolutely ironic that a 5 year old abandoned ripper can easily make a movie only copy. :D

[Wombler]

However, it totally surprised me when I discovered that the ANCIENT SmartRipper was easily (In less than 10minutes) able to rip a "movie only" copy of the aforementioned the R1 version of "Blade - House of Chthon"!


That's bizarre. I think you might just have been lucky with that one.


Wombler

[buckster67]

hm am i the only one that cant get this 1 to go i have tried 6 times an can only get the previews not the movie itself

[setarip_old]

@Wombler

Hi!

"Luck" has nothing to do with the ability of a specific ripper to (in this case) rip a "movie only" backup.

It seems that whereas DVD Decrypter (either directly, or from within RipIt4Me) automatically (at least based on its default settings) attempts to first interpret all .IFOs and, therefore "gags" on that part of this protection, SmartRipper (in "movie only" mode) apparently doesn't do this and seems to follow the PGC through the actual .VOBs.

If, however, this DVD contained "ARccOS" copy protection as well as its present demonic protection, I'm fairly certain that SmartRipper would not be able to render a good "movie only" copy.

(Note that SmartRipper also fails at the attempt to perform a full disc backup)

[mc2man]

i've had the whole disk on my hdd to fool around though unfortunately I don't know nearly enough to make any clear technical points or make a full backup. Got very close but either the movie wouldn't start from the main menu or it would start 1.29 sec. in. I am at least able to see some of what's going on and the effects on popular progs. This is some really inspired work compared to "ripguard", it's variants and arccos. One thing that jumps out is it's designed to "fool" alot of progs. into removing stuff that's critical to playback or in some cases smooth playback. Several progs. want to blank what is actually part of the movie. While the movie seems to be Vob id 2 it seems to be switching to Vob id 0 back and forth. Another thing that comes into play is most of the ifo/vob editors "see" the movie beginning about 1:29 in . For instance p..edit says for the 1st vob/cell id in title 2 - entry vobu 34891 (this sector also has invalid nav pack) ab. sec. 35006 - which is 1:29 in.
Now the movie only backup I did plays fine on standalones and does show 15 cells at vob0 followed by 18 at vob2, 1 at vob3
What's really interesting is to take the movie only and open it up in dvd shrink in reauthor mode It "sees" all the cells corresponding to vob0 as chapter1 (1500 or so mb.) and the real beginning of the movie at chap.2. If you reauthor from 2 on and burn the disk it plays fine (starting at the true beginning) and then around chap.6 starts missing a few seconds here and there for the rest of the movie

[jeanl]

Man! What a mess!
Jeanl

[SamuriHL]

Man! What a mess!
Jeanl

Yea, it really is...What a "great" protection they've got themselves.

[Wombler]

It seems that whereas DVD Decrypter (either directly, or from within RipIt4Me) automatically (at least based on its default settings) attempts to first interpret all .IFOs and, therefore "gags" on that part of this protection, SmartRipper (in "movie only" mode) apparently doesn't do this and seems to follow the PGC through the actual .VOBs.


That's interesting.

I'll bear that in mind if I ever have any difficulties with other DVDs.


Wombler

[blutach]

If it follows a PGC, the it somehow looks at the IFOs. The PGCs are in the IFOs, not the VOBs. Chances are that in movie only mode, it picked the correct VOB (out of 3 identically named ones).

Regards

[setarip_old]

it picked the correct VOB (out of 3 identically named ones).I believe two of them exist ONLY as directory entries, not as actual .VOBs...

[blutach]

Indeed. So, how can it "follow a PGC" (which is in the IFOs)?

A PGC is a logical collection of cells, not a physical one (and so is in the IFOs).

Unless it is blind luck, it must determine which VOB is actually the right one somehow. This is not that tough as VIDEO_TS.IFO contains the correct start sectors.

Anyways, it is interesting to see that it works. Presumably, the full disk backer-uppers, can either wait for one of the more advanced rippers to come along and break the scheme, or use a combo of Smart Ripper (movie only) and some other ripper (to rip the non-protected bits), together with some editing software to pull it all together.

Regards

[setarip_old]

Anyways, it is interesting to see that it works.Perhaps that's why there was all the "whispering" in March/April 1 about the possible replacement of DVD Decrypter by SmartRipper in then-future RipIt4Me releases, starting with the never released v.1.73...

[mc2man]

even though there's no practical use for this (probably never get off hdd) I now have a complete full disk backup on the hdd. It plays the movie perfectly from the main menu with only a 3 sec glitch getting to the true start. Whats interesting is how the control panel for powerdvd shows title 2 but the chapter keeps switching from the ch. it's on to 1 and back . ie. ch.4, ch.1, ch 4, ch. 1 ch. 6 cn. 1 ch. 6 ch. 1 ect.
The short of it is I took the full disk rip, removed anything to do with vts12, readjusted the ifo to reflect this(probably not needed) and pasted in the vts_02_0.ifo from the movie only. I figured it couldn't hurt to butcher it more

[setarip_old]

@mc2man

What you've not said in this thread is how you managed to initially copy the entire original, commercial DVD to your harddrive.

Please share this information with us ;>}

[mc2man]

there are some things flying under the radar and should stay that way. I will gladly share privately mainly because while I can "see" possible solutions I have no where near the knowledge to proceed or properly repair (if possible)
I also can see that the smartripper solution will be short lived, I believe it fails on ...03_.0.BUP which shows up 8000 kb with "invalid parameters". It's actually only 12 kb. same goes a couple of others further along, put one before the main title and ....

edit: after a little thought smartripper could still be very useful, it seems to be unaffected by errors in the .vobs,(as used it this case) if you can feed it corrected ifos and bups I think it will go merrily on it's way

[setarip_old]

there are some things flying under the radar and should stay that way.To each his own, I guess (whether Linux or Windows is involved)...

[mc2man]

As a side note on smartripper if anyone wants to fool around with it on the full disk just run it in linux under wine. You'll be able to parse all the ifos ect. While it will fast skip the errors in 02_01.vob in file and disk mode you can see the disk as it really is

[SamuriHL]

Fascinating. What a wonderful protection they've got there.

[wildchild77]

As a side note on smartripper if anyone wants to fool around with it on the full disk just run it in linux under wine. You'll be able to parse all the ifos ect. While it will fast skip the errors in 02_01.vob in file and disk mode you can see the disk as it really is

It seems I will have to get a copy of this DVD to run some tests on my Linux set-up.