Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > General > Decrypting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th January 2022, 22:04   #1  |  Link
DirkTheDaring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4
Best PC DVD/BD drive for scratched or defective discs?

Hi.

I have a relatively large DVD/BD collection (several thousand). I've been working through imaging (as ISO, after decrypting) them all for my own use. I have found that approx. 50-100 titles will not image. Generally those discs are scratched.

I remember way back in the day (we're talking 15+ years), everyone would recommend certain Lite-On drives. Has that changed?

I have been using a Pioneer BDR-209D for 99% of the images and it's worked great. I've also tried other drives (Samsung SH-224DB, and various laptop internal readers) which sometimes help but generally produce the same errors. I've tried various methods (wiping with microfiber towels, the toothpaste method, etc) and none work. I don't want to invest in a DVD cleaner as they generally don't work either, and something professional like the JFJ Easy Pro is just too expensive.

What is these days considered the best PC DVD/BD drive that can read scratched or defective discs?

Thanks for any help!

---

EDIT: To be clear, I know scratches can run deep and those discs won't be perfectly imageable. Discs like that might be able to be resurfaced, but I'm not looking into that right now.

I'm trying to recover discs where they look perfect or have very light scratches, so there might only be a handful of sectors that are corrupt. I'm hoping there's a drive that can read over them.

Last edited by DirkTheDaring; 21st January 2022 at 04:10.
DirkTheDaring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2022, 21:33   #2  |  Link
Mark_Venture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 234
What app are you using to rip/decrypt them? Have you tried using a different app?

I've been using an LG WH16NS40 (NS50 marked) drive with UHD friendly patched firmware. Lately its been giving me read errors. I got a new WH16NS40, popped it in, flashed it, and still had some read errors.. SO i tried another app to rip/decrypt and its been reading them fine. Granted my discs aren't badly scratched, but it seems the one app does a better job with the "problem" discs.
Mark_Venture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2022, 03:27   #3  |  Link
DirkTheDaring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4
I use AnyDVD HD for decryption and ImgBurn for ISO creation.

When I see an image is having difficulty, I generally try Alcohol 120% or CloneDVD and leave them running (sometimes for days) and store into their own formats (mds/mdf or ccd). It's never worked. When I watch the result, there's always corruption or skipping.
I've tried other general use imaging programs like Nero, UltraISO, MagicISO and many more. I've also tried just straight copying the VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS directories in Windows and Linux. No good.

I'm certain it's not a software issue. It's definitely a disc issue which I *hope* can be alleviated with a drive that does better when reading imperfect discs.
DirkTheDaring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2022, 20:30   #4  |  Link
kaho-yan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4
Although I cannot recommend any "best" drive, I can add some relevant information about problematic discs:

I have 2 BD drives, none UHD friendly:
- BW-16D1HT (1.01 revision which cannot become "friendly")
- BH20N

I also have a brand new BD disc that cannot be read fully without issues.
It is spotless without any imperfections but both of my drives have serious problems reading it.

I had to resort to ddrescue before decrypting and fortunately the bad parts were in the streams themselves so even incomplete images could be decrypted.
Obviously missing parts were scrambled mess but least I could iterate and separate the decrypting step.

Results were as follows:
- Both drives were able to read over 99% of the data
- BH20N was painfully slow when trying to read the remaining data - think several weeks non-stop at the pace I saw, maybe more
- BW-16D1HT was very slow but faster than BH20N - think a week non-stop
- Eventually BW-16D1HT was able to read the whole thing. BUT - after decrypting a few frames were corrupted
- I identified the problematic few sectors (which wasn't straightforward) and retired reading on BW-16D1HT many times - every time after a longer period it was able to read them I got the same bad data. (i made sure to restart/clear block read-caches both on the OS and firmware level)
- I tried to recover those sectors using BH20N - it took a long time but after successful read and splicing into the rest of the image + decrypting I got a valid data.

My takeaways from this are:
- I cannot assume that if the drive is able to read a disk then the data returned is valid - I need to at least verify. For this I am using ffmpeg:
Code:
ffmpeg -v info -i $PATH_TO_M2TS_FILE -f null -
- BW-16D1HT is much better choice for retrieving most of the data
- BH20N is better for recovering the last few sectors if BW-16D1HT returns bogus data
- Before decrypting I have to use ddrescue - this makes things much easier and I can manually edit recuse files, control retries, track progress and bad regions, etc. Ripping software just isn't always the best choice at data recovery when compared to dedicated solutions.

In the end this would lead me to recommend Hitachi/LG over Asus for apparently better error handling if you are looking just one "best" drive. + Use dedicated recovery software like for example ddrescue instead of just ripping software when possible
But this is a sample size of "1", so well... don't take it as gospel. I would rather have a few models on hand and shuffle when needed.

Tangentially I do like the error messages from BW-16D1HT more. I mean dmesg logs are much more readable and descriptive. Not sure how much of this are linux kernel drivers and how much are the drive firmwares though.

Last edited by kaho-yan; 26th January 2022 at 22:11.
kaho-yan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2022, 22:50   #5  |  Link
nalor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 499
I recommend using h2cdimage to read defective discs - this way it's possible to use different drives to read as much as possible (e.g. you read the first 70% with the first drive, switch to another one and fill another 15%, switch to a 3rd one ... so this way you can profit from the strengths of each drive)

And the tool is free

See: https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/c-t-...o-2859100.html or https://www.heise.de/download/product/h2cdimage-39056

Unfortunately the page and the included description is german only - if you need help just let me know and I'll create a short usage guide

I recommend to download a small utility to get the correct numbers of the installed drives:
http://www.ewetel.net/~bernd.leuenro...age/lsscsi.exe
nalor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2022, 03:41   #6  |  Link
DirkTheDaring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4
I've done similar in the past but by pausing and then physically forcing open drives at times, or stitching together ISO's. This should be much easier. Thanks nalor! And thanks for the offer to help with the guide but I think I should manage with Google Translate (well, I hope).

My original question still stands to anyone that might know. Unless all drives are pretty much created equal these days?
DirkTheDaring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2022, 22:22   #7  |  Link
nalor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 499
At least I'm not aware of a drive with "special" error correction features...
nalor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2022, 14:27   #8  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Sounds daft,
but I've sometimes been able to read an "unreadable" sector by physically tapping(hitting) the drive during access.
[but I think was for single (or a few) bad sectors only, not lots].

EDIT: Cant remember if was CD or DVD disk. [I have done it long time ago, and on multiple disks with success]
EDIT: "tapping", on the drive tray (drawer).
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 25th January 2022 at 14:42.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2022, 00:07   #9  |  Link
DirkTheDaring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4
Tapping? Sure, I'm willing to try it

I've bought another drive (an LG) so once that arrives, hopefully it does better. I was in the market for a 4K drive anyway.
DirkTheDaring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2022, 21:11   #10  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
I recently got the cheaper LG WH14NS40, 4K Friendly drive [flashed with LibreDrive firmware update, it thinks its a WH16NS60 v1.2 fw].
I did originally also order a SATA connector with power supply for external attaching, but
did not work with ISO drive [only OK with external hard drive].
EDIT: This one:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It says its ISO drive compatible, but its not. [Damn, I thought it was my mistake, but it does specify ISO OK].

So, I then ordered the OWC Mercury Pro 5.25" ISO drive enclosure:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
A bit expensive for a tin box at 60.00, but I now love it, its real heavy solid steel construction and
quite easy to fit the drive. [EDIT: Very few (about 2) ISO drive enclosures on Amazon, and all expensive]

My HP Omen 880 has a slim style DVD, no space for full size ISO drive, and I'm quite happy with it as external ISO.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 28th January 2022 at 21:25.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2022, 21:31   #11  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessS View Post
So, I then ordered the OWC Mercury Pro 5.25" ISO drive enclosure:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
A bit expensive for a tin box at 60.00, but I now love it, its real heavy solid steel construction and
quite easy to fit the drive. [EDIT: Very few (about 2) ISO drive enclosures on Amazon, and all expensive]
Thanks for the link.

I'm still using an 8-10 year old 'USB 2.0 DVD Enclosure' with my ASUS BW-16D1HT drive. It works okay (when it wants to) but is very slow to react when backing up 4K UHD discs
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2022, 21:40   #12  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Here the list (from MakeMKV site I think) of 4K friendly suitable enclosures.

Code:
USB enclosures/sata adapters that work with optical drives and flashing:

Vantec NST-536S3-BK 5.25 case
OWC Mercury Pro 5.25 case
Unitek Y-1034 USB to sata cable-Marty
Unitek Y-1039 USB to sata cable
Unitek Y-1099 USB to sata cable-fishman
Unitek Y-3324 USB to sata cable
ICY BOX IB-550StU3S 5.25 case-ddeconin


USB enclosures/sata adapters that work with optical drives but don't support flashing:

Vantec CB-ST00U3
Buffalo BR3D-12U3
In blue on Amazon.co.uk.
The ICY Box is [I think] the other box I found on Amazon, but I thought it looked a bit weird. (about the same price)

EDIT: The one in RED seems to be the adapter that I got and would not work with my ISO drive.
[EDIT: There was some kind of message in Windows logs about it not responding to some command, and was therefore marked as Unknown Device - probably some hard drive only command from W10 - Maybe it works OK with W7]

EDIT: My 4K ISO aint exactly ultra fast either, think maybe up to about max 27MB/sec or 29MB/sec rip
[but about same when attached directly to machine internal Sata (I think - LibreDrive lifting of speed restrictions not made a great deal of difference)].
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 29th January 2022 at 18:44.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2022, 17:52   #13  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Further to above post,
Here is the weird looking ICY Box IB-550StU3S 5.25 on amazon.co.uk [USB 3.0 + eSata]
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Icybox-Exte...2C104&sr=8-280

Also when searching for above, I came across this
Icy Dock ExpressCage MB326SP-B Hot Swap Cage for 6x 2.5-Inch SATA SSD/HDDs in 1x 5.25-Inch Bay
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Icy-Dock-Ex...2C104&sr=8-156

which put some ideas in my head.
I have an oldish XP/Linux full tower machine which I could convert to a NAS,
it originally came with fast IDE [the 80 wire blue ATA cable] and at least as fast as SATA I,
currently no IDE drives except for a DVD burner,
2 Sata II drives, 1 floppy drive, and 3 free 5.25" drive bays.
Has 2 x 3 Sata ports [each triple by 2 different Raid SATA manufacturers, Miracle is one I think, not sure about the other],
but 2 of those ports are currently in use.
The above cage takes up to 6 x 2.5" drives, and would occupy a single 5.25" bay.
So to totally fill up my bays with hard drives, I would need some PCI card providing at least another half dozen
sata ports and cables.
Damn, I'm gonna have to have a think about that.

EDIT: I could still have it booting with XOSL Boot controller, XP/Linux and FreeNAS OS [EDIT: Now known as TrueNAS CORE, Open Source].

EDIT: Apparently there are several different versions of the ICY Dock 6 x 2.5" cage, the linked one may not be the best.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 29th January 2022 at 18:29.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2022, 18:36   #14  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,235
I quite like the minimalist look of the OWC Mercury Pro 5.25" Optical Drive External Enclosure...
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2022, 18:41   #15  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Has yours arrived yet ?
[EDIT: I think mine took about 5 or 6 days, and said something about customs on package, so looked like it came from overseas]

EDIT: I just added an edit in red in post 12. (for my original sata adapter)

EDIT: In the comments, some people say the OWC box is not StainlessS Steel, is aluminium,
but I think is too heavy for aluminium, although it does have a sort of brushed aluminium look
to it.

EDIT: A magnet does stick to the drive case, weaker on the sides, but quite strongly on the top center
more shiny panel, so it does seem to be made of two types of steel alloy.
EDIT: It is possible that the weaker magnetic bond was sticking because of the steel ISO drive case inside
the enclosure, I have not tried without the drive in the case, but the stronger bond center panel must be steel alloy.

@SeeMoreDigital,
when your drive enclosure comes, can you test sides with a magnet(without drive inside), and post result. Tanks.

EDIT: NO, I think was my Blu-Ray drive itself that came from overseas, not the Enclosure.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 30th January 2022 at 16:05.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2022, 19:49   #16  |  Link
chainring
Registered User
 
chainring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 178
I have the same OWC Mercury Pro 5.25" case and it's paired with the ASUS BW-16D1HT running LibreDrive firmware. I also have a LG BU50N slim drive running LibreDrive firmware and it can rip faster than the ASUS, oddly enough. The LG has consistently been more reliable and faster than the ASUS when ripping UHD discs and good ole scratched up audio CDs.
chainring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2022, 20:26   #17  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainring View Post
I have the same OWC Mercury Pro 5.25" case....
So.... Is the case aluminium or stainless steel (it looks like aluminium to me)?
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2022, 22:46   #18  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Test with magnet before you mount drive.
Top center steel, sides maybe aluminium. [too heavy for aluminium alone]
(If you just ot one, easy to do, I dont wanna take mine apart again, although only few minutes job)
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2022, 22:58   #19  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,235
Just so you know... Good quality stainless steel is not magnetic
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2022, 02:24   #20  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,981
Point noted, but nobody claimed it to be good quality.

EDIT: Mainly for test of not aluminium if is magnetic.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

Last edited by StainlessS; 31st January 2022 at 02:31.
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.