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Old 6th June 2018, 16:05   #1  |  Link
Adam65
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Best Motion Interpolation's software/plugin ?

If you use DirectShow then there are 3 (that I know of) options that can add frame interpolation:

SVP: https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Main_Page

DmitriRender: http://www.neowin.net/news/the-easie...-mpc-hc-mpc-be

MVTools: http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/329-h...r-movie-files/

I've tried SVP and DmitriRender and found DmitriRender is better for me.

What is your favorite ?
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Old 6th June 2018, 16:21   #2  |  Link
johnmeyer
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AFIK, SVP uses the same algorithms as MVTools2 and was created in order to use the GPU for real-time interpolation (so you can get the soap opera effect while watching movies). So, it should give you identical results.

I've used a lot of motion estimation plugins and have found no major differences: they all suffer from the identical problems when they encounter people walking, picket fences, and other well-known torture tests.

The settings are the key to getting the best results. There was a long thread about this about two years ago when someone here tried to get better results and ended up adding some masks to the process. Someone else will have to point you to the thread because I don't have time to look it up. You should definitely try his work.

[edit]I think this is the thread I was trying to remember. You should definitely read it:

SVP-like frame interpolation?

Last edited by johnmeyer; 6th June 2018 at 16:25.
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Old 6th June 2018, 16:46   #3  |  Link
ChaosKing
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https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174793
Quote:
SVP/Interframe has blurrier results than it should due to a bug (after comparing with MvTools with exact same settings), and FrameRateConverter has superior artifact masking, resulting in overall much better results.
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Old 6th June 2018, 16:50   #4  |  Link
lansing
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I just tried DmitriRender, it seems to work better than svp on motions like waving hands.
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Old 6th June 2018, 22:18   #5  |  Link
Adam65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
AFIK, SVP uses the same algorithms as MVTools2 and was created in order to use the GPU for real-time interpolation (so you can get the soap opera effect while watching movies). So, it should give you identical results.

I've used a lot of motion estimation plugins and have found no major differences: they all suffer from the identical problems when they encounter people walking, picket fences, and other well-known torture tests.

The settings are the key to getting the best results. There was a long thread about this about two years ago when someone here tried to get better results and ended up adding some masks to the process. Someone else will have to point you to the thread because I don't have time to look it up. You should definitely try his work.

[edit]I think this is the thread I was trying to remember. You should definitely read it:

SVP-like frame interpolation?
Thanks for sharing your experience.

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Originally Posted by ChaosKing View Post
Thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lansing View Post
I just tried DmitriRender, it seems to work better than svp on motions like waving hands.
I agree. It feels much smoother.
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Old 6th June 2018, 22:28   #6  |  Link
MysteryX
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If you want the best quality, use FrameRateConverter with Preset="slower". It will greatly reduce artifacts by calculating it with 2 different settings, and taking the best areas of each. It does give very superior results than SVP, but is a lot slower and definitely can't be done in real-time.
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Old 6th June 2018, 23:17   #7  |  Link
Sparktank
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SVP is very customisable (as-is MVTools), so I mostly use SVP for live-playback with 64-bit versions of everything.
I even replace the avisynth.dll in the SVP installed folder with the latest AVS+ versions.

As long as the main AVS+ is installed and its MVTools updated, you can tweak the (Pro) SVP as much as you like to get results that are satisfactory.

There are some movies I want to convert with FrameRateConverter to compare to SVP's results.

Every movie is different. Very different.
Depending on the style and cinematography, you might get better results than using previous settings.
I'd say there is no guaranteed "blanket" setting that makes everything look decent.
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Old 7th June 2018, 00:53   #8  |  Link
lansing
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Here is a comparison between FrameRateConverter and DmitriRender on waving hand. Original frame rate at 23.976fps, rendered at 60fps

FrameRateConverter:



DmitriRender:


Svp gives similar result as FrameRateConverter so I don't bother screenshoting it.

FrameRateConverter just blends the frames, and there's no real frame in between, where with DmitriRender it has real frames along with the interpolated one.

Correction: I double check on the original video, actually there're also no real frames in DmitriRender's sequence, they're all interpolated too.

Last edited by lansing; 7th June 2018 at 01:48. Reason: correction
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Old 7th June 2018, 01:06   #9  |  Link
MysteryX
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DmitriRender looks interesting -- hadn't heard of it before.

With FrameRateConverter I have a pretty good algorithm for detecting artifacts but there's just no other backup plan than blending frames in those areas -- definitely open to better ideas.

Does Dmitri have any Avisynth plugin?
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Old 7th June 2018, 01:14   #10  |  Link
johnmeyer
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Your comparison is very intriguing. Looks like I have to play around with DmitriRender.
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:04   #11  |  Link
poisondeathray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansing View Post
Correction: I double check on the original video, actually there're also no real frames in DmitriRender's sequence, they're all interpolated too.
Sometimes you don't want to keep original frames; because interpolated frames are always lower in quality and smoother . There can be a flickering / fluctuation especially with higher quality material, or grainy, or noisy material . But sometimes you want to keep some or all original frames. Pros/cons depending on the situation. But resampling all will be smoother, but higher chance of artifacts

There is some discussion on an earlier version of DmitriRender here
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170950


Can you post that waving sample source, and output from DmitriRender, lansing for testing purposes ?
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:21   #12  |  Link
johnmeyer
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Interesting thread, Poison, although it went off the rails with people complaining about the activation process. I never did see any useful comparisons (with other ME software), and also didn't see if there is any way to use it other than as a plugin to MPC-HC or other player. For me (and others in this forum), I suspect that they would want it to work as an AVISynth plugin, if possible.
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:27   #13  |  Link
poisondeathray
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I haven't tried it, but in theory you can just put together a directshow graph and use it in avisynth that way

The comments weren't convincing me to try it out, but that was an older version too. Which is why I would like to see some results first to see if it's even worth my time
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:47   #14  |  Link
lansing
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Here is hand wave sample. The DmitriRender sequence are screenshots from the player.

hand wave sample
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:22   #15  |  Link
MysteryX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
Sometimes you don't want to keep original frames
There is an option in FrameRateConverter to use original frames instead of blending. When converting from 15fps to 60fps, however, it causes artifact areas to "stretch" by remaining still while everything else is moving, which gives a very weird effect. However it might not be that bad on 24 or 30fps videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lansing
Here is hand wave sample.
We can't judge an algorithm based only on a specific scenario. Have to look at how it performs everywhere. But if I could use this in places where I have artifacts to replace, that could be interesting.
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Old 7th June 2018, 05:09   #16  |  Link
johnmeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansing View Post
Here is hand wave sample. The DmitriRender sequence are screenshots from the player.

hand wave sample
The motion on the hands & fingers does look like some sort of mask/frame blend like what MysteryX did. I looked at lots of freeze frames of the hand wave close ups, and often there were multiple fingers from adjacent frames, but blurred together rather cleverly.

I can't judge the actual motion estimation without being able to do my own tests. The arm movement looks flawless, although there are some artifacts I've never seen before with ME when the arm crosses in front of one of the bright lights. They are really minor and look like small teeth.
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Old 7th June 2018, 05:49   #17  |  Link
poisondeathray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
The motion on the hands & fingers does look like some sort of mask/frame blend like what MysteryX did. I looked at lots of freeze frames of the hand wave close ups, and often there were multiple fingers from adjacent frames, but blurred together rather cleverly.

I can't judge the actual motion estimation without being able to do my own tests. The arm movement looks flawless, although there are some artifacts I've never seen before with ME when the arm crosses in front of one of the bright lights. They are really minor and look like small teeth.
What "lots of freeze frames ?" The pictures he uploaded ? He uploaded 5 frames

He only uploaded a source video, not a processed video


lansing - can you make a directshow graph and use avisynth/directshowsource to upload a processed video please?
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Old 7th June 2018, 05:54   #18  |  Link
lansing
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lansing - can you make a directshow graph and use avisynth/directshowsource to upload a processed video please?
How do I do that?
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Old 7th June 2018, 05:59   #19  |  Link
poisondeathray
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Originally Posted by lansing View Post
How do I do that?
uhhh, a bit hard to explain.

In graphstudio / graphedit, is there a dimitryrender filter available? (graph => insert filter)

You make a graph with the source filter (actually if you just open the mkv with graphstudio, it will automatically make one. ie. just drag the mkv into the graphstudio window) , but disconnect the renderer. Insert the dimitryrender box right after the decoder box (you probably have lav filters or something) . You might have to connect the pins. Disconnect the audio components. Save the graph with the the renderer disconnected

Create a script referencing the graph, that's it
Code:
DirectShowSource("mygraph.grf", fps=23.976, audio=false)
If you can't figure it out, or maybe the dimitryrender box is "locked", then don't worry about it
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Old 7th June 2018, 06:51   #20  |  Link
lansing
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I have the graph like this "video->LAV video decoder->dmitrirender->video renderer", it was able to play inside graphstudionext, but when I try to load the grf in avs it said

"DirectShowSource: GRF file does not have a compatible open video pin. Graph must have 1 output pin that will bid RGB24, RGB32, ARGB, YUY2, YV12...."
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