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View Poll Results: Variable Resolution Poll
Yes, I would want variable resolution movies. 4 20.00%
No, variable resolution movies are terrible. Pick 1 resolution and stick with it. 13 65.00%
I'm fine with hardcoded black bars and alternating between different aspect ratios. 3 15.00%
I like black bars on all 4 sides of my movie because I'm a retard. 0 0%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th February 2018, 08:10   #1  |  Link
Neillithan
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Is it time for variable resolution videos?

Hi, I'm not even sure if this is possible to append multiple videos with different resolutions in an MKV container. Just stating that up front so that there's no confusion.

Basically, there are 2 different methods of handling variable resolution. The first is the way the industry currently does it, which is to put hardcoded black bars on the top and bottom when necessary, so that when the footage changes to a different aspect ratio, the video fills the *hardcoded* space that would otherwise be empty blackness on the top and bottom.

The 2nd method, is to have the video switch to the different resolution dynamically during playback, and to crop all black bars out, whether they're on top or the left and right. Zero black bars. The software or hardware would need to be smart enough to handle dynamic resolution changes, and center the video accordingly, and also shift subtitles accordingly.

The reason why I think it's time for variable resolution videos:

Years ago, it became common to alternate between IMAX cameras with a 16:9 AR, and common cameras with a 21:9 AR, such as the Dark Knight movies, inception (I think)... and a few others.

This is okay if your display is 16:9, but it's terrible if your display is 21:9, because depending on how much of the footage is 16:9 or 21:9, you may end up with a large chunk of the movie in 21:9 AR but with black bars on ALL 4 SIDES OF THE MOVIE. What the hell do you do in this situation? Do you pause the movie and change the zoom so that you can eliminate blackness on all 4 sides, or do you simply crop the entire movie at 21:9, reencode, and try to ignore the fact that you cropped out a huge chunk of pixel data for IMAX scenes that were originally captured at 16:9? This is less than ideal, considering you risk chopping off the tops of people's heads, or hardcoded text.

Also, bonus & behind the scenes footage tends to alternate between a wide variety of aspect ratios, from 4:3, 16:9, 21:9, whatever:whatever. It's incredibly jarring, especially on a 21:9 monitor.

And the issue is compounded by the fact that, services such as VUDU, Youtube, and Netflix deliver movies in 16:9 with hardcoded black bars on the top and bottom, which has prompted one person to release a Chrome extension to zoom Netflix videos for people with 21:9 displays.

The obvious pitfall of variable resolution movies is, you cannot do a fade blend between the different aspect ratios, due to the instantaneous switch from 16:9 to 21:9, and vice versa. Transition effects are a no go, unless they are realtime / software based (in other words, not hardcoded). Good luck getting creative with that.... and even then.... you would need to overlap the 16:9 with the 21:9 to get a seamless transition... which would mess up audio.... It would be much easier to just *not* have transitions and stick to an abrupt AR change.

Anyway, thoughts?

Last edited by Neillithan; 26th February 2018 at 08:26.
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Old 26th February 2018, 10:43   #2  |  Link
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Any sudden changes in image geometry would be rather disruptive and probably quite annoying. How can this be a good idea? There should be one choice for the movie and that should be kept.
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Old 26th February 2018, 11:06   #3  |  Link
Neillithan
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Any sudden changes in image geometry would be rather disruptive and probably quite annoying. How can this be a good idea? There should be one choice for the movie and that should be kept.
I personally don't care if there are aspect ratio changes in a movie. I would just rather have the movie fit my monitor in all situations. 4:3, 16:9, 21:9... I'd rather the video either fit to the height, or fit to the width. Instead what happens is, I get black borders on all 4 sides. And I don't mean stretching and disobeying the original aspect ratio. Stretching is the worst.

For bonus & behind the scenes footage, there are aspect ratio changes all over the place because they bounce back and forth between the movie, which might be 21:9, and unprofessional camera footage, which might be 16:9 or 4:3. A variable resolution would be helpful in this situation.

Even if you make the movie a 21:9 aspect ratio, the industry insists on hardcoding black bars on the top and bottom, which is absolutely terrible for 21:9 monitors. I've seen a few movies on my neighbor's cable TV that were 21:9, with hardcoded black borders on the top and bottom, but forced into a 4:3 aspect ratio, which results in black borders on all 4 sides. This wouldn't even be an issue if the industry moved to variable resolution instead of hardcoding black bars to fit a specific situation.

Last edited by Neillithan; 26th February 2018 at 11:12.
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Old 26th February 2018, 11:52   #4  |  Link
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It sounds like the real issue is encoding with black bars, I do not want variable resolution video but encoding a 21:9 movie with black bars is (should be) pointless. It is trivial for the player to fill unused target render space with black or any color.

However, similar functionality can be achieved with madVR. It can automatically crop hard coded black bars, it can even do it differently when the source changes and tell the video player to resize differently. It works amazingly well with players that support it (most that I have tested do).
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Old 26th February 2018, 13:24   #5  |  Link
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This would be variable aspect ratio, not variable resolution
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Old 26th February 2018, 14:23   #6  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Neillithan View Post
This wouldn't even be an issue if the industry moved to variable resolution instead of hardcoding black bars to fit a specific situation.
This also wouldn't be an issue if you used smarter software, like Asmodian suggested try using madVR, it can automatically detect and remove black bars.
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Old 26th February 2018, 15:04   #7  |  Link
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If it is 21:9 and watched on say 16:9, then cropping metadata (of some sort) could be a good idea. One could extend that to cropping metadata + playing at middle 18.5:9 aspect for example. It does complicate things.
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Old 26th February 2018, 16:41   #8  |  Link
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My thought is that I wish directors would just pick an aspect ratio and stick to it. Unless you've got a very good reason for doing so - like in Galaxy Quest where it goes from 1.85:1 to 2.35:1 when they get to space, and even that's a bit of a unnecessary gimmick, since most people wouldn't even notice - just stick to one ratio.
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Old 26th February 2018, 17:48   #9  |  Link
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Interstellar is another movie where the aspect ratios change quite a lot. It all adds to the movies overall impact, so it doesn't bother me at all

Edit: That being said, it's often easy to forget that the majority of movies are made to be viewed within a cinema/movie theater - on a very large screen. Not a 16:9 home TV...
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Old 26th February 2018, 18:06   #10  |  Link
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Are you expecting anyone to actually vote for the 4th option ?,
There are some of us tards on the D9, but even I would not admit to it.

PS, I hate letterboxing, anything more than 16:9 is not nice, and changing rez is ghastly idea.
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Old 26th February 2018, 18:09   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Interstellar is another movie where the aspect ratios change quite a lot.

It all adds to the movies overall impact, so it doesn't bother me
How does it add anything? Is there some particular emotion that 1.85:1 conveys in a way 2.35:1 can't?
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Old 26th February 2018, 18:14   #12  |  Link
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How does it add anything? Is there some particular emotion that 1.85:1 conveys in a way 2.35:1 can't?
This is the explanation for the aspect ratio change, I suppose:
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Interstellar was photographed in 35mm anamorphic and 65mm 15-perf IMAX formats. When the film is projected in an old-school 70mm IMAX theater, the aspect ratio will switch between 2.40:1 (35mm anamorphic) and 1.43:1 (IMAX) at "key dramatic moments".

At 70mm screenings, the IMAX footage has been cropped top and bottom (and the widescreen footage cropped slightly on the sides) to create a 2.2:1 aspect ratio. The aspect ratio will switch between 2.35:1 and up to 1.9:1, presumably depending on the height of the screen at any given digital IMAX installation

(Source : Studiodaily)
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Old 26th February 2018, 18:18   #13  |  Link
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Are you expecting anyone to actually vote for the 4th option ?,
There are some of us tards on the D9, but even I would not admit to it.

PS, I hate letterboxing, anything more than 16:9 is not nice, and changing rez is ghastly idea.
4th option is a joke. lol

Letterboxing just plain sucks.

Here's a random image I found on google:



As you can see, due to the hardcoded borders, the 3rd outcome is possible when displaying 4:3 footage with hardcoded top/bottom black bars on a 16:9 monitor.

Now, imagine how bad this is on a 21:9 monitor. It literally becomes unwatchable because to fullscreen a movie that was formatted for 16:9 with letterbox, cause the movie to become nearly HALF the size on a 21:9 monitor.

The enemy is hardcoded black bars. And if the movie industry insists on having black bars, then they must insist on perpetuating this nonsensical vertical black bar nonsense that apparently is going to continue until the end of time until people wise up to the fact that hardcoding black bars is the worst thing ever.

I don't expect the industry to *stop* hardcoding black bars any time soon because they will simply continue to alternate between variable footage, which is why I suggest variable resolution. It's a solution to a problem, which in the short term would create problems due to lacking hardware and software support, but in the long term, those problems would be eradicated through updates.

I recently played a PC game that was formatted for a 16:9 monitor, and they had a cutscene that overlayed black bars on the top and bottom to give it that "cinema" feeling during a cutscene. Well, considering I have a 21:9 monitor, 2 things happened. 1. I got black borders on the top and bottom, and then I got huge vertical black borders on the left and right, causing the "immersion" to be completely lost. All I could think about is, I was watching a cutscene through a tiny rectangle on my screen. Then, as soon as the game started, the black bars disappeared at the top, and then the vertical black bars disappeared, causing the game to perfectly fit my monitor.

The 2nd thing to happen was, I realized just how utterly pointless it would be to take 21:9 game footage, and overlay black bars on the top and bottom because you're taking an *already* native cinema aspect ratio of the monitor which is 21:9, and forcing into an even TINIER aspect ratio, which nobody uses because there comes a point when a thin ass viewing experience becomes absolutely detrimental to the immersion.

So, in the video game world, I suggest getting rid of those temporary cinema-esque black bars that appear during the cutscenes, and stop trying to narrow my viewing experience if I'm already on a 21:9 display. I've opted for a permanent cinema viewing experience by getting a 21:9 monitor, so now it just seems absolutely stupid to try and make it even more cinema.

Last edited by Neillithan; 26th February 2018 at 18:25.
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Old 26th February 2018, 18:25   #14  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Neillithan View Post
4th option is a joke. lol

Letterboxing just plain sucks.

Here's a random image I found on google:

The third image, dates back to the early days of 4:3 authored DVD's and when 16:9 TV's were a rarity.

You would only see that if you viewed a 4:3 letter-boxed DVD image on a 16:9 TV and did not enable the TV's up-scaling option.

It's a redundant scenario nowadays...
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Old 26th February 2018, 20:24   #15  |  Link
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The third image, dates back to the early days of 4:3 authored DVD's and when 16:9 TV's were a rarity.

You would only see that if you viewed a 4:3 letter-boxed DVD image on a 16:9 TV and did not enable the TV's up-scaling option.

It's a redundant scenario nowadays...
It's not. The new standard has become 16:9, and 21:9 monitors are rapidly becoming widespread. The issue has returned. I'm not saying ultra widescreen HDTVs are suddenly going to fly off store shelves, but ultra widescreen monitors are, and that will cause HDTV makers to try and cash in on this. Maybe not now, but eventually.

Try owning a 21:9 monitor and see if you can say what you said with a straight face.
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Old 26th February 2018, 21:42   #16  |  Link
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To repeat...

The third image is an example of what you would see if you viewed a 4:3 letter-boxed DVD image on a 16:9 TV and did not enable the TV's up-scaling option.... It has nothing to do with 21:9 monitors.

EDIT: I actually use a 21:9 monitor at one of the places I work. So I am familiar with them....

And as I also said... "the majority of movies are made to be viewed within a cinema/movie theater - on a very large screen. Not a 16:9 home TV..."
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Old 26th February 2018, 22:01   #17  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Neillithan View Post
I don't expect the industry to *stop* hardcoding black bars any time soon because they will simply continue to alternate between variable footage, which is why I suggest variable resolution. It's a solution to a problem, which in the short term would create problems due to lacking hardware and software support, but in the long term, those problems would be eradicated through updates.
It seems a lot more likely that the industry will stop hard-coding black bars than that they will implement variable resolution.

Variable aspect ratio flags make sense for video with different aspect ratios being displayed at an unknown aspect ratio; you do not need to change the resolution. Or simply use a smarter player, that is possible today.
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Old 26th February 2018, 23:42   #18  |  Link
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"the majority of movies are made to be viewed within a cinema/movie theater - on a very large screen. Not a 16:9 home TV..."
Considering the size of the home video market in all its forms it's naive to think that the home market has no effect on movie production.

James Cameron, for one, is known for shooting with both cinema and TV broadcast in mind, moreso back when widescreen was less prevelant on the small screen.

Also a large screen far away is practically the same as a small screen close to, so there's very little difference these days.
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Old 26th February 2018, 23:43   #19  |  Link
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It seems a lot more likely that the industry will stop hard-coding black bars than that they will implement variable resolution.

Variable aspect ratio flags make sense for video with different aspect ratios being displayed at an unknown aspect ratio; you do not need to change the resolution. Or simply use a smarter player, that is possible today.
That's an actual legit suggestion. It may not be ideal since you'll end up with non square pixels.... but.... if the resolution is high enough, nobody would ever know.
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Old 27th February 2018, 18:40   #20  |  Link
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I didn't realize, because the heading is totally wrong, that this is about aspect ratio.

I can't believe that, over a decade after widescreen TVs and HD became widespread, that we need a poll or anything else. The options are obvious, as are the tradeoffs: you either letterbox or you stretch. Since I want to see the entire movie, and because I understand the extremely simple "square box in round hole" conundrum that is at the heart of this, I live with the letterboxing. I've tried every stretching algorithm you can imagine, and have seen other people's attempts, including the silly attempts to fill in the black borders with fuzzy duplicates of the main video. That does not work for me. At all.

I don't really see the point of having a poll. What do you plan to do with the results? Why are we re-hashing something that has been discussed in these forums for over ten years?

Stretch or letterbox: your choice. Do as you please.
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