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Old 30th December 2015, 02:59   #1  |  Link
XMonarchY
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What are the best tools for editing and encoding HEVC?

True fast broadband internet just became available in my area and that means I can finally do what I always wanted, make gameplay videos, without clogging our homework for many hours because of very slow upload speeds.

I use Bandicam to record gameplay videos. Bandicam is a progressive and up-to-date recorder. It let's me select HEVC (NVidia NVENC), H264 (NVidia NVENC also), H264 (CPU), and MPEG-4. The file format is either AVI or MP4, which is what I use. It does NOT come with advanced encoding settings, but it does do a great job!

I am relatively new to the world of video editing. Thus far I mostly learned all I could about very high quality playback with MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock madVR, its settings + display calibration, etc. Now that am entering video editing arena, I will surely need some help.

Should I go through many pages of reading about what encoding is, how it works, all its basic and advanced settings (bit-rate and such), types, and etc.? I would prefer to STRICTLY stick to HEVC because it is THE future.

Some questions:
- What is the difference between H.264 and X.264? Does the same apply to H.265 (HEVC) and X.265?
- What are some of the best tools for editing HEVC videos?
- Bandicam videos at 100% quality @ 60fps @ 1080p usually get as big as 270MB for some 90 seconds. I can lower quality and FPS and resolution, but AFAIK there are MORE ADVANCED ways to reduce size without sacrificing the visuals. When people make personal legal BD films some of the advanced users manage to squeeze amazing quality into 8GB rips while others end up with odd blurry quality 20GB rips for the same exact BD. What are those advanced methods? Where can I LEARN more about them?

I do not care for having a single All-in-One application that can do all 3: Record, Edit, and Encode. I would rather have the best of each kind. Bandicam is the best recorder there is (better than DxTory IMHO). Now I just need HEVC / H.265 Editing Tools and Encoding tools.

I would PREFER FREE TOOLS. I am not willing to spend a lot of money on all this. I heard that HEVC License is VERY expensive. Do I need to buy one if I want to make videogame videos and upload them online, but NOT for profit? I just want to share some videos - that's it, NOTHING illegal, NOTHING for profit.

I would really appreciate someone putting on the right path of figuring all this stuff out!
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Old 30th December 2015, 05:54   #2  |  Link
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1. You don't understand codecs and standards, thus this question makes no sense.
2. You cannot edit videos encoded in any codec at all. Every video editing software out there fully reencodes (decodes -> encodes) whatever video you have when you hit save/export.
3. It boils down to using proper codecs and proper codecs settings. To get best results with predictable file sizes you should use x264 with preset --veryslow and two passes encoding. Also you'll probably want to use some --preset depending on the source.

You're a little bit too excited about H.265 and largely you don't understand encoding at all. Trust me - at the moment you don't want to use x265 at all unless you have something like 32 spare Core i7 cores. And even then, x265 is practically the same as x264 in regards to file sizes when you want to preserve the minute details.

Again you didn't make yourself clear as to what exactly you want.

Last edited by birdie; 1st January 2016 at 08:31. Reason: Removed unnecessary dots as noticed/noted by foxy
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Old 31st December 2015, 20:13   #3  |  Link
HarryM
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The main question is:

What is the best container for h.265+AAC?

MP4 or MKV?
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Old 31st December 2015, 21:14   #4  |  Link
Jamaika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryM View Post
What is the best container for h.265+AAC?
The wrong question. What container works best with your TV?
The computer should all work with ffmpeg.

How would you like to have cover in MP4 containers is to add them using MP4Box. However, do not use as muxer.
How do you want to have subtitles with effects, with their own created or purchased
font use the MKV + ASS v4.0.
Descriptions in the comments to the movies on the size of an A4 page, and you can use MP4 and MKV. However, much easier to do in the tags Matroska.
http://filmowiec.pl/forum/viewtopic....28371&start=30

Happy New Year
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Old 1st January 2016, 05:57   #5  |  Link
foxyshadis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I would prefer to STRICTLY stick to HEVC because it is THE future.
The trouble with sticking to the future is that your audience is stuck in the present and wouldn't be able to view it yet, at least without downloading the video and and installing a compatible player, and we all know how likely that is for most people. Browsers don't have HEVC support yet. Stick with AVC/H.264, which everyone can play. Feel free to offer a higher-quality HEVC download, though nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
- What are some of the best tools for editing HEVC videos?
Now there's a tricky one. You'd be better off asking if there are any tools for editing HEVC videos, and the answer still seems to be: Nope, not yet. (Although Vegas has an ffmpeg plugin.) Again, stick to AVC or XAVC, which has mature free editing tools now, like Lightworks or AviDemux. You'd have to edit in another format, then re-encode to HEVC.

It's generally not fun to edit something that decodes that slowly anyway, so you're not missing much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I would PREFER FREE TOOLS. I am not willing to spend a lot of money on all this. I heard that HEVC License is VERY expensive. Do I need to buy one if I want to make videogame videos and upload them online, but NOT for profit? I just want to share some videos - that's it, NOTHING illegal, NOTHING for profit.
You heard wrong; the license is only 20 cents for the encoder, and no charge for free content, exactly the same as AVC. There is some uncertainty over exactly how the licenses will shake out, since there is one pool that only licenses encoders and decoders, and another pool that only licenses decoders and paid content, but that's not important for you.

For encoding, VidCoder, Handbrake, StaxRip, and for serious tweakers, MeGUI are all well-regarded free programs that use the highly rated x265 (as well as x264, so you can directly compare the two).

You can get very good results from sticking to the preset system, rather than fiddling with all of the knobs, but for best quality you have to pre-filter your video. 3D gameplay video needs lots of processing to encode better, such as adding anti-aliasing to edges and textures if it isn't turned up in-game, and denoising to remove unimportant details. 2D and retro gameplay generally just needs as much bitrate as you can throw at it, since you don't want to lose those sharp edges and details.
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Old 1st January 2016, 06:28   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApTeM View Post
You're a little bit too excited about H.265 and largely you don't understand encoding at all. Trust me - at the moment you don't want to use x265 at all unless you have something like 32 spare Core i7 cores. And even then, x.265 is practically the same as x.264 in regards to file sizes when you want to preserve the minute details.
Gameplay videos eat bitrate for lunch; what seems like a good bitrate for all but the grainiest movies is often barely acceptable for gameplay, and that's a situation where HEVC really shines. While I certainly wouldn't capture to it, it's fine for re-encoding without needing such a beefy system, which would have to be done for editing anyway.

Watch the dots, too; it's x264 and x265, not x.264 and x.265.
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Old 1st January 2016, 08:30   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
Watch the dots, too; it's x264 and x265, not x.264 and x.265.
Right, sorry :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryM View Post
The main question is:

What is the best container for h.265+AAC?

MP4 or MKV?
You can trivially change the container using `ffmpeg -c copy`, so save in whichever container your prefer. I prefer MKV because it's a lot more resilient and allows you to play even incomplete/damaged files. MP4 is really picky in regard to its internal structure and integrity - it can be easily damaged and become unplayable. Lastly Windows 10 supports MKV out of the box so you may say MKV has become more or less a standard.

Last edited by birdie; 1st January 2016 at 08:35.
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Old 4th January 2016, 11:44   #8  |  Link
pandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I would really appreciate someone putting on the right path of figuring all this stuff out!
So adding only to previous feedback (totally agree with almost everything above).

H.265 is tailored for future and mostly for 4k (UHD) content.
Today is time for H.264 and HD.

H.265 is still in relatively early stage of development and as such H.264 is currently better choice (wise from quality, cost and coding time).

H.264 and H.265 are codecs to deliver content not to edit content and encoding of the H.264/H.265 file is the last thing in your processing chain - for real edit work use different file format - preferably lossless.

There are INTRAframe versions of H.264 (H265?) used for edit work but they mainly focus on accessibility not on compression.

You may consider VP9 as codec alternative to H.264/H.265 (it works better on YT for games - YT VP9 quality is better than H.264 as YT promoting VP9 and intentionally [IMHO] reducing H.264 quality).
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:11   #9  |  Link
pieter3d
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and intentionally [IMHO] reducing H.264 quality).
That's definitely not true.
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:52   #10  |  Link
vivan
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Originally Posted by pieter3d View Post
That's definitely not true.
Why not? They're using either x264's ultra/veryfast preset or even HW encoder, while their vp9 encoder is at least 10x slower (or even 100x if they're using slower presets). Just by using a fraction of processing power they use for vp9 they could easily increase quality of H.264 encodes by a lot.
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Old 6th January 2016, 16:18   #11  |  Link
movmasty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
Now there's a tricky one. You'd be better off asking if there are any tools for editing HEVC videos, and the answer still seems to be: Nope, not yet. (Although Vegas has an ffmpeg plugin.) Again, stick to AVC or XAVC, which has mature free editing tools now, like Lightworks or AviDemux. You'd have to edit in another format, then re-encode to HEVC..
While Lightworks free is Crap, at least at exporting, AviDemux is all but mature,
but this is a direct show problem i think.

The question was
the best tools for editing and encoding HEVC?

So, what are right now the fastest tools to encode HEVC
and the best to decompress it??

A simple direct reply please

Last edited by movmasty; 6th January 2016 at 16:25.
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Old 7th January 2016, 01:53   #12  |  Link
Zebulon84
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What are the best, what are the fastest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by movmasty View Post
So, what are right now the fastest tools to encode HEVC
and the best to decompress it??

A simple direct reply please
In forum rules you can read :
Quote:
12) How NOT to post on this forum:
[...]
Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!
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Old 7th January 2016, 10:52   #13  |  Link
movmasty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebulon84 View Post
In forum rules you can read :

12) How NOT to post on this forum:
[...]
Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!
Wait! i didnt ask for a comparison, neither i asked "what is the best"

I asked what are the best, that is some good software.

and this 3d is "What are the best tools for editing and encoding HEVC?"
No one reclaimed....

So go to show the rules to someone other.

Last edited by movmasty; 7th January 2016 at 10:55.
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Old 7th January 2016, 14:39   #14  |  Link
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You can edit h265 videos using Adobe Premiere Pro, they added support in the latest patch which was released about 1 month ago.
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Old 7th January 2016, 15:32   #15  |  Link
movmasty
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
You can edit h265 videos using Adobe Premiere Pro, they added support in the latest patch which was released about 1 month ago.
Thanks, and a fast free tool to encode?

What is Toolnix mod?
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Old 8th January 2016, 19:36   #16  |  Link
DarrellS
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Virtualdub with it's External Encoder feature allows you to encode with just about any command line encoder that accepts stdin. You can use either presets or create your own commands.

Here is my x265 vdprof file. Copy and paste into notepad and save as x265.vdprof.

Code:
{
	"description": "VirtualDub external encoder profile collection",
		"externalEncoders": {
			"sets": {
			"HEVC-NA-MKV": {
				"videoEncoder": "DIVX-HEVC",
				"audioEncoder": "",
				"multiplexer": "HEVC-NA MKV",
				"description": "mkv",
				"extension": "mkv",
				"processPartial": false,
				"useOutputAsTemp": false
			}
		},
		"profiles": {
			"x265 medium": {
				"name": "x265 medium",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset medium --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265 fast": {
				"name": "x265 fast",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset fast --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265 faster ": {
				"name": "x265 faster ",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset faster --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265 veryfast": {
				"name": "x265 veryfast",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset veryfast --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265 superfast": {
				"name": "x265 superfast",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset superfast --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265 ultrafast": {
				"name": "x265 ultrafast",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\x265\\x265.exe",
				"commandArguments": "--crt 18 --preset ultrafast --input-res %(width)x%(height) --fps %(fps) - -o \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).hevc",
				"type": 0,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},							
			"x265-MKV-Mux": {
				"name": "x265-MKV-Mux",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\MKVToolNix\\mkvmerge.exe",
				"commandArguments": "-o \"%(outputname)\" --default-duration 0:%(fpsnum)/%(fpsden)fps \"%(tempvideofile)\" \"%(tempaudiofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).audio",
				"type": 2,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			},
			"x265-MKV-NA-Mux": {
				"name": "x265-MKV-NA-Mux",
				"program": "C:\\Tools\\MKVToolNix\\mkvmerge.exe",
				"commandArguments": "-o \"%(outputname)\" --default-duration 0:%(fpsnum)/%(fpsden)fps \"%(tempvideofile)\"",
				"outputFilename": "%(outputname).audio",
				"type": 2,
				"inputFormat": 0,
				"checkReturnCode": true,
				"logStdout": true,
				"logStderr": true,
				"bypassCompression": false,
				"predeleteOutputFile": false
			}
		}
	}
}
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Old 8th January 2016, 21:26   #17  |  Link
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Thanks
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Old 13th January 2016, 18:37   #18  |  Link
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Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
Now there's a tricky one. You'd be better off asking if there are any tools for editing HEVC videos, and the answer still seems to be: Nope, not yet. (Although Vegas has an ffmpeg plugin.) Again, stick to AVC or XAVC, which has mature free editing tools now, like Lightworks or AviDemux. You'd have to edit in another format, then re-encode to HEVC.

It's generally not fun to edit something that decodes that slowly anyway, so you're not missing much.
It looks like the new Adobe 2015.1 have added some support for HEVC and HDR editing. I've not tried it yet, though.

As for decoding slowly, HEVC at the same quality level (thus lower bitrate) really should be around the same as H.264 for a software decoder, and its decode is a lot more parallelizable with WPP and such. The difference is probably more in having HW decoders for 264 and not for HEVC. But the modern crop of GPUs have begun including HEVC HW decode.
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Old 15th January 2016, 05:23   #19  |  Link
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For encoding or better said "transcoding" i suggest "Handbrake".
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Old 15th January 2016, 11:10   #20  |  Link
foxyshadis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
You can edit h265 videos using Adobe Premiere Pro, they added support in the latest patch which was released about 1 month ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
It looks like the new Adobe 2015.1 have added some support for HEVC and HDR editing. I've not tried it yet, though.
Cool, I didn't even see the announcement that there was an update. I'll give it a spin after this weekend (taking the Win10 plunge on the main laptop!).
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