Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Announcements and Chat > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th September 2010, 23:04   #1  |  Link
Doom9
clueless n00b
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 10,577
Our moderator rules

Rules, rules rules, right? Well, even though I prefer to handle things internally (I believe it's more professional.. you don't see bosses screaming at their employees in the hallways or even outside of the company grounds and that has a reason), there's a standard for moderators to adhere to as well.

Quote:
Your main tasks are:

A) Help out the people in the forum(s) that have been assigned and keep the discussion going in a friendly and welcoming manner.

B) Uphold the forum rules: http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm.

C) Authorize attachments & unsuspend users: Visit the moderation panel every day you visit the board.

D) Maintain a FAQ in your respective forum: There should be a sticky Q&A thread in every forum where it makes sense to have one (probably excluding advanced users and bugreport / development forums) and it is the task of the assigned forum moderator(s) to maintain and update that Q&A on a regular basis. Basically if something is asked multiple times, put it in the FAQ, and if somebody has a really bright idea put it there as well.

E) Visit the mod chat every time you visit the board.

F) You must visit the board and take care of pending issues in your forum at least 3 times a week. You are strongly encouraged to do this on a daily basis. If for some reason you cannot be present for a period of 2 weeks or longer, you must inform the rest of the moderator team via a message in the mod chat giving a brief overview why you can't be here. If you don't want to share your reason you can send a PM to me but I need to have at least some idea of what is going on. The maximum "off time" allowed is 3 months, after that you'll either have to be back in full force or you'll be asked to step down.

G) Private forums are to be kept private. The issues being discussed in non public forums (mod chat, etc.) must never be revealed to people who are not moderators/admins on this board.

H) Moderate discussion on this board.

Below are some guidelines on various issues:

1) Looking after the forum is mainly the forum moderator's task. Only if he is not around for a while should other privileged users step in (Super Moderators).

Locking and Unlocking:

2) Forum Rule 3: If a thread is off topic but would fit into the focus of another forum the moderator should move it to the appropriate place. If a thread is off topic and doesn't fit into the forum then the appropriate forum moderator should write a short note stating that the post if off-topic, then close the thread. As by rule 1) locking and moving is mainly the task of the responsable forum moderator and no other person should lock threads in form where they haven't been specifically assigned as moderator unless rule 3 or 4 apply.

3) Unmoderated Forums: This is where Super Moderators take the moderator position.

4) If a thread is about to blow up in our faces (flame threads, etc) people with special privileges (Admins, Super Moderators) can take immediate actions (edit posts (see 6), and lock threads (locked threads must include one last post indicating why such action was taken))

5) Unlocking threads: If it's a sticky thread that you've created it's okay to unlock it if you want to make changes. If it isn't such a thread you must not unlock a previously locked thread.

Editing Threads

6) Any and all edits should be preceded by making a copy of the offending thread to the thread moderation forum. Whether you copy the entire thread or just a post is up to you, but it should always be able to reconstruct the discussion (so if copying single posts, make sure you indicate where they fit in the publicly visible thread).

6a) Any edit of any post that will be left standing should be marked as such (e.g. "removed link to illegal software", or "removed insults", etc.).

6b) If entire posts are being deleted, make sure you soft-delete them, so they can still be seen by members of the moderator team.

Deleting threads

7) If there's a case of cross-posting, try to answer the thread in the forum where it best fits in and move the rest of the threads to thread moderation. In most cases you will not be able to edit out all the cross-posts, in this case let an active forum moderator with the correct privileges, an active super moderator or active admin know. Also inform the offending user that cross-posting is in violation of the forum rules when you write your answer.

Conflict of interest

8) Moderators must not have a vested interest when using their moderator powers. When a mod's actions are called into question, the mod cannot use his moderator powers to resolve the situation - instead, the issue has to be handed off to another moderator or administrator. The same applies to controversy regarding any and all products a moderator has ties to.

Forum rule 1 violations:

9) Remind people that they signed the rule that they would read up first then ask questions. Also encourage them to use the search function in the forum and tell them that they may not expect an answer if they don't bother to read up first. Also remind people of the Q&As that we have (or will have).

10) Don't pick a "lesser" rule when a strike for rules 4 or 6 (those count as a double strike) is warranted.

11) On rule 6: Err on the side of caution before accusing somebody of warez. I've had cases where an obvious release group file name turned out to be a fluke (so googling the exact file name helps.. and if you find no precise match, assume that somebody adopted release group naming for their own purposes).

12) Interpretation of rule13: This is rule is meant to discourage conversations in languages other than English. With conversations I mean entire post exchanges. Sometime, you can hardly avoid writing a line in another language, and if somebody writes a considerable part of a post or an entire post in another language, you should warn him first before handing out any strikes.

13) As per the conflict of interest section, moderators may not strike for issues they have a vested interest in.

14) Only enforce rules 9 & 11 for repeat offenders. Politely encourage members that it is in their best interest to follow these rules instead often works better.

15) Keep in mind that with the team badge, you represent the forum, not your individual opinion. As such, you should set an example for our members to follow.
There's also a lengthy bit about how the strike system works that seems pretty irrelevant because only moderators will ever get to see the functionality. But here are some relevant bits

Quote:
Note that if you're editing posts, deleting or moving posts, the link in the PM the user gets will go nowhere - so it is imperative that you use the message box field to inform the user why he/she was struck.
and
Quote:
Rules 4 & 6 count as two strikes, violations of any other rules count as a single strike. Therefore, try warning people off first before handing out double strikes. Such a warning should serve as an encouragement for better behavior, not as a reprimand. I know it's much harder to ask somebody nicely to not do something again in the future than to slam him with the rulebook but the former has proven to be much more effective in the past. A strike for violation of rule 4 or 6 means the user in question is 2/3 suspended.. always keep that in mind. When in doubt.. rather ask another moderator or in this forum. The amount of suspensions should be very small at all times.. we don't have too many people really misbehaving badly.

Another thing.. before you strike take a minute to look at the user's profile and check previous strikes... if your strike would lead to a suspension it should be clear that the user generally deserves the suspension.. getting striked 3 times for not using an appropriate title for instance.. that shouldn't lead to a suspension but to a serious talk with a moderator telling him that his inconsiderate behavior might make it impossible for him to post in the feature and that a very small effort would help prevent that.
As you can see, the whole thing is written with super moderators in mind. Because we haven't had those for a long time an in order to handle attachments, moderator powers were extended to be available over all forums. That was never meant to be permanent.. hopefully, the right people will step up eventually.

Please note that those rules have been revised, extended and condensed (it was a lot less formal before, rules 9 and 13 were never written down explicitly but only mentioned casually in some rather old private discussions amongst team members). From this point on, you can expect moderators to adhere to those rules. If you feel somebody has not done so, please inform me immediately. Since I'm only human, do have a job and a personal life, I cannot guarantee a quick response, but I promise I will look into it. Because I do not believe getting into shouting matches, and since as with the forum rules, the final interpretation is up to me, I ask you to please remain civil even if you feel somebody has been wronged.
Also, I do not believe a good leader does his dirty laundry in public - you don't see public floggings in the workplace either. So don't expect a moderator hall of shame. Managers, to a certain extent, should have the spine to stand up for their people. Mistakes can happen - how you handle it when they're being pointed out to you is much more important in my book. I do not believe any forum can attract moderator volunteers if the admin stabs his own people in the back the first time they make a mistake.
__________________
For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

Last edited by Doom9; 24th March 2012 at 22:05.
Doom9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2010, 23:10   #2  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,907
Stickie?
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 09:49   #3  |  Link
GodofaGap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom9 View Post
Also, I do not believe a good leader does his dirty laundry in public - you don't see public floggings in the workplace either.
When you call it like that no. When you call it "reminding a person of his responsibility" it happens pretty much all the time in the open. This is important so people don't get the idea that others get special treatment. I don't know in what kind of working environment you are active, though. I know moderators are volunteers, but this doesn't mean they don't bear any responsibility for their actions to the community.

If you want this transparency thing to have any meaning, and a larger group of people seem to have a problem with a moderator you will have to put out a public statement either in support or against the moderator. This doesn't mean you have to praise him into heaven or burn him down to the ground, it means you have to say the group of people is not justified in their feelings or acknowledge mistakes were made (and not in the sense of "everyone makes mistakes").

I'm afraid that with reiteration of the forum rules and opening up the moderator rules the mentioned group of people will not feel recognized in their grievance here, and it will not resolve the existing situation.
GodofaGap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 13:19   #4  |  Link
Doom9
clueless n00b
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 10,577
Quote:
When you call it "reminding a person of his responsibility" it happens pretty much all the time in the open.
Does it really? Other than in "The Apprentice"? I'm familiar with the "get into my office".. which is a pretty clear indication someone has screwed up.. but I have yet to see for instance an unfriendly sales person or service person being told to adjust their attitude in front of me. I believe that should happen during the next break (or if it gets really bad you swap the person at the register immediately.. but you tell the replacement to replace the other). Sometimes customers might pick up on those reminders, but I doubt it is the idea that they do.

Quote:
but this doesn't mean they don't bear any responsibility for their actions to the community.
Who says they don't? They are held accountable - but they can't really account to you.. you don't have the power to demand that they change. I, however, do.
__________________
For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org
Doom9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 13:23   #5  |  Link
Sharktooth
Mr. Sandman
 
Sharktooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Haddonfield, IL
Posts: 11,768
that was exactly what i meant on my reply on doom10. that is an admin issue. doom9 owns this forum and he decides how things are going to be... not users.
Sharktooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 13:51   #6  |  Link
Hagbard23
23sKiDdOo!
 
Hagbard23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 182
Quote:
that was exactly what i meant on my reply on doom10. that is an admin issue. doom9 owns this forum and he decides how things are going to be... not users.
That is surely wrong Sharktooth.

The Admin owns something, which is built by the Community - so there is no Decision which affects community, and which has to be done by the Admin alone.

What is wrong with you all? We live in a Democracy, people fought years and years for the rights we have in the real world. Why are you going back to dictatorship? In nearly every democratic system, the people who are part of it are allowed to discuss and mention problems as they want to - as long as they don't stand in conflict with the general laws.

It is a central right, we are discussing here, and i do not believe, that keeping problems secret will do anything to them.

Why should i report problems to the Administrative, when i have a problem with this certain administrative??? That is not logical. Why should the Administrative be the only adress for problems? I do not understand your way of thinking? What is your fear? If the subject of criticism has done nothing wrong, he has no cause of keeping things secret, or am i wrong? And IF the criticism is on the right lane, we all should know about this - because not all users have problems with a certain person at the same time, and it would be interesting to those users, what's the matter with -for example- Neuron2.

I don't get it - am i stupid or what? What exactly is your problem?
Hagbard23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 13:59   #7  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,907
@Hagabard23

I think you may have misunderstood Sharktooth. I think he's just saying that the Doom9 forum belongs to Doom9 and Doom9 has the right to decide and implement his personnel policies as he sees fit. That's how all businesses work.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 14:11   #8  |  Link
Hagbard23
23sKiDdOo!
 
Hagbard23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 182
But we aren't a business here, right? We are a community. I know, that you like business, but that does not make the Forum into one. A Forum is a free place, where people come together to discuss several things, right? It is no business as Neutron2.Net, it is -first of all- Free.

Maybe you are right, that Doom9 has the right to choose wether a person would be a good moderator, or not. But as every Human Being he can do mistakes - just as your person does.

And in a free forum, just as explained, those mistakes (if they affect community based problems) SHOULD be discussed with the members of this Forum and NOT with the -self called- owners of this community.
Hagbard23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 14:12   #9  |  Link
tremens
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 16
At a minimum, i think some PTO is in order.
tremens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 14:15   #10  |  Link
GodofaGap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom9 View Post
Does it really? Other than in "The Apprentice"? I'm familiar with the "get into my office".. which is a pretty clear indication someone has screwed up.. but I have yet to see for instance an unfriendly sales person or service person being told to adjust their attitude in front of me.
I've seen unfriendly service personnel be corrected right in front of me behind the counter when I asked for their boss. Perhaps this is a cultural difference, but this really does happen and it definitely gives a feeling you are taken seriously as a customer.

Quote:
Who says they don't? They are held accountable - but they can't really account to you.. you don't have the power to demand that they change.
You misunderstood me, I'm not asking that moderators account to me. I'm saying that a part of the community finds that a moderator has screwed up, and they don't think it is enough anymore to handle this behind closed doors. You can think what you like about this, but if you don't come with an open statement this whole transparency exercise will be in vain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharktooth
that was exactly what i meant on my reply on doom10. that is an admin issue. doom9 owns this forum and he decides how things are going to be... not users.
Sure he can do what he wants, but that is so besides the point I don't even know why you bring it up. If this is the premise for discussion then lets just lock all these threads right away. I thought they were created to have an open discussion with the community about them. If not, I'm sorry I wasted my time.

Last edited by GodofaGap; 8th September 2010 at 14:20.
GodofaGap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 14:38   #11  |  Link
stax76
Registered User
 
stax76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: On thin ice
Posts: 6,799
Quote:
but if you don't come with an open statement this whole transparency exercise will be in vain
Post #1 is the open statement, one with that IMO everybody can be satisfied with.
stax76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 14:44   #12  |  Link
GodofaGap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 823
Then close the topic.
GodofaGap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 16:14   #13  |  Link
Sharktooth
Mr. Sandman
 
Sharktooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Haddonfield, IL
Posts: 11,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
@Hagabard23

I think you may have misunderstood Sharktooth. I think he's just saying that the Doom9 forum belongs to Doom9 and Doom9 has the right to decide and implement his personnel policies as he sees fit. That's how all businesses work.
yep, i was in a hurry and couldnt elaborate more.
Sharktooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 16:26   #14  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagbard23 View Post
But we aren't a business here, right? We are a community. I know, that you like business, but that does not make the Forum into one. A Forum is a free place, where people come together to discuss several things, right? It is no business as Neutron2.Net, it is -first of all- Free.
No, doom9's forum is not a community, it's a forum that belongs to doom9. He pays for the hosting and for the traffic and some other issues you have probably no idea, thus it's free for you. Should everyone take part to these issues (member fee - I wonder how much would shrink this community should a member fee be instituted) well that's a community. So far I understood this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=52597), we are only guests here. We may discuss the rules (before Rule 17 ) but not impose them.
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 16:51   #15  |  Link
Hagbard23
23sKiDdOo!
 
Hagbard23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 182
Okay, then it is not a forum, by old definition, but only a website in which others can interact. Some kind of Social Network ...
Nevertheless: Of course you are right with your thoughts.

But Anyway i hold it - with or without these thoughts -, i don't think it is a good idea to go this way -

i will go with it, but i'm not gonna like it.
Hagbard23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 16:57   #16  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagbard23 View Post
It is no business as Neutron2.Net, it is -first of all- Free.
If you actually go to neuron2.net and look around you will see that 95% of my stuff is open sourced, and that I offer free hosting to other open source developers, as well as free mirroring for significant websites experiencing hosting difficulties. Go search for the original Avisynth website (BenRG's); you will find the mirror I have provided to you free ever since BenRG moved on.

Regarding my licensed tools, a single donation gets all of them. So since there are currently three significant ones, you pay $5 per significant tool. I am not the only prominent developer that makes non-free tools. You may consider jdobbs and mpucoder for example. We have hosting and other expenses. These small donations provide spending money for that. I can assure you, I am nowhere near getting rich from my tools.

Furthermore, even for my tool DGDecNV, I have published my entire development dialog with Nvidia, as well as sample applications (source code) that show how to use the GPU for decoding.

Finally, I'm sure that you have noticed that some other developers, that ironically claim lilly-white status, are quite happy to state that their commercial activities take priority. See here for an example ("All contracts buy you priority access to me over email, IRC, and instant messenger."):

http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/consulting.html

I include it below in case it should suddenly disappear:

Quote:
As a developer of x264 and ffmpeg, I take consulting and coding contracts. They generally fall under the following categories:

General x264/ffmpeg consulting: You pay me to answer questions and provide detailed information and support on x264 and ffmpeg. This is the simplest, cheapest type of contract and gets you priority access to me. This can also serve as a support contract of sorts.

Project-based x264/ffmpeg consulting: Perhaps you need an encoding chain built for some specific purpose--a Flash video site or encoding for mobile devices. I have a great deal of experience in this category, having helped set up encoding chains for Facebook, Criterion Collection, and others. Other types of projects can also be considered. Do note that I generally do not do coding in such cases; while I am not ignorant in the ways of bash scripting, it is generally a much more efficient use of my time and your time to have me provide you the information you need to write your own back-end scripts. Furthermore, I will never write PHP for any purpose.

Coding: Do you need a feature added to x264 or a bug fixed? Then this is the type of contract you're looking for. Previous clients in this category include Avail Media and Vudu. Note that I of course reserve the right to reject any contract proposal that I believe does not make sense or which I do not have time to implement (especially true of features which would be incredibly complicated to implement, such as SVC). I also will generally only work on features that I believe are worthwhile enough to actually commit to x264; custom features that are not intended to be committed will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Also note that I require--at a minimum--co-ownership of all changes that I commit to x264; I will not accept any contract that does not grant me that minimum amount of ownership of my own code.

Coding on things not x264: Do you have a video compression-related program, especially H.264-related, that you want me to improve? I can do this as well; previous clients in this category include CoreCodec. Note that specific restrictions apply here: your NDA cannot in any way affect any of my other work including that on x264. Additionally, I reserve the right to refuse to directly port algorithms or code from x264 if applicable. Finally, I will not promise to complete any task until I have acquired enough information to judge feasibility and work involved. Obviously, if I decide something is not feasible after seeing the existing codebase, you will not be billed.

My rates are $100/hr for consulting and $125/hr for coding contracts. Per-project rates are negotiable. For large payments (> $1000), check is preferred; Paypal works for smaller payments. All contracts buy you priority access to me over email, IRC, and instant messenger. Phone is also available if necessary.

Contact darkshikari [at] gmail [dot] com if you are interested in a contract. If you need more information, a simple CV can be found here.
I hope it will not be considered spam.

Last edited by Guest; 8th September 2010 at 17:08.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 16:59   #17  |  Link
Sharktooth
Mr. Sandman
 
Sharktooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Haddonfield, IL
Posts: 11,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagbard23 View Post
Okay, then it is not a forum, by old definition, but only a website in which others can interact. Some kind of Social Network ...
Nevertheless: Of course you are right with your thoughts.

But Anyway i hold it - with or without these thoughts -, i don't think it is a good idea to go this way -

i will go with it, but i'm not gonna like it.
it has been always like that. what makes you think it could change?
it always was a forum and there were certain rules which you abide to agree during you registration. it's not so difficult to understand.
it's a private place made available to the public to discuss certain things.
Sharktooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 17:27   #18  |  Link
tremens
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
If you actually go to neuron2.net and look around you will see that 95% of my stuff is open sourced, and that I offer free hosting to other open source developers, as well as free mirroring for significant websites experiencing hosting difficulties. Go search for the original Avisynth website (BenRG's); you will find the mirror I have provided to you free ever since BenRG moved on.

Regarding my licensed tools, a single donation gets all of them. So since there are currently three significant ones, you pay $5 per significant tool. I am not the only prominent developer that makes non-free tools. You may consider jdobbs and mpucoder for example. We have hosting and other expenses. These small donations provide spending money for that. I can assure you, I am nowhere near getting rich from my tools.

Furthermore, even for my tool DGDecNV, I have published my entire development dialog with Nvidia, as well as sample applications (source code) that show how to use the GPU for decoding.

Finally, I'm sure that you have noticed that some other developers, that ironically claim lilly-white status, are quite happy to state that their commercial activities take priority. See here for an example ("All contracts buy you priority access to me over email, IRC, and instant messenger."):

http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/consulting.html

I include it below in case it should suddenly disappear:



I hope it will not be considered spam.
just further proof that the concept of free software is beyond your comprehension
tremens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 18:27   #19  |  Link
stax76
Registered User
 
stax76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: On thin ice
Posts: 6,799
@neuron2

I was hoping you and DS are willing to leave this argument behind, going separate ways is all what's needed and I don't mean separate boards but rather separate threads.

Last edited by stax76; 8th September 2010 at 18:31.
stax76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2010, 18:33   #20  |  Link
Doom9
clueless n00b
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 10,577
Quote:
I'm saying that a part of the community finds that a moderator has screwed up, and they don't think it is enough anymore to handle this behind closed doors.
Why is it not enough? I hate peer pressure and screaming matches. If you have a reasonable gripe, as I've said before, I will listen. And, now that you know the standard moderators are held to, you can basically report a moderator rule violation. If the report turns out to be correct, something will be done about it. For instance, if a strike was given, that strike will be rescinded and the moderator will be given instructed how to handle similar situations better in the future.
For the most egregious offenses, or serial offenders, the result will be that they will lose their moderator status.

But we're not going to have a vote on who will be hired and who will be fired. That part, just as on the tube, is up to the boss.

Quote:
just further proof that the concept of free software is beyond your comprehension
please elaborate
__________________
For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org
Doom9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.