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Old 15th January 2018, 19:49   #48341  |  Link
brazen1
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@Manni

Frame drops are every 3.5 minutes in 3D. FSE or Windowed makes no difference. Tip that might help you engage 3D windowed:
When I turn off FSE, 3D engages on display but not MBC-BE. Press \ on keyboard to window/minimize the player. Open NCP during playback. You should be in 1080 RGB FULL 8bit. For some reason the driver does not switch to 10\12bit as it does automatically (after forcing during driver setup) using 2D media or one of the components is not switching it. So, simply select 12bit. Display will flash and 3D will be playing in 3D. It will remain in 3D once you press \ again. Wallah, 3D is playing when FSE is OFF. Hardly the appropriate sequence but hopefully more ammo. Subsequent playback, this setting remains and it just works.... until you reboot or the likes. Make sure you engaged stereoscopic in NCP and global if needed prior via script since HDR playback disables stereoscopic. I use FSE also.

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Old 15th January 2018, 20:02   #48342  |  Link
Neo-XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
No problem. So is it working for you now? See also this post of mine, in case you missed it:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=48371

What is your opinion about *image quality* when using NGU Sharp + the new RCA strength 1 setting. Is RCA strength 1 still harmful when used with NGU Sharp?
Yes, working as expected now, but some details lost/blurred around the edges with RCA at strength 1 enabled.

Not very harmful and the algorithm is very good to remove the little compression artifacts even on very good sources, so I do not know what to think yet. I need to test more.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:05   #48343  |  Link
madshi
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Well, I suppose if there are clearly visible negative effects, then it probably makes sense to still allow NGU Sharp to be used without any RCA. Except maybe if the advantages greatly outweigh the negatives...
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:10   #48344  |  Link
mclingo
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@madshi - not sure if this new version, the last one or anything Microsoft has released was supposed to fix handshake issues as 3D reverts back from 1080p23 back to my 2160p60 desktop but i'm still getting that issue, however my PC no longer crashes, I just just lose handshake and i have to use HDMION.exe to wake it up.

2s movies start, skip and play fine, when I press stop my TV tells me i've come out of 3D mode but then I get a black screen and no signal.

To get around this I've been using a batch file to switch my desktop to 1080p before starting KODI DS when playing 3D movies, I then just have to remember to switch back to 2160p afterward. Do you know what causes this, its pretty much the only problem I have left to resolve now before I'm fully stable.

This might be a KODI DS issue, seems to be ok using MPC-BE, will log this on their thread.

Last edited by mclingo; 15th January 2018 at 22:54.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:27   #48345  |  Link
Siso
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madshi, thank you for the new build, are you planning simple crop options like crop to 1.85:1, crop to 2.35:1, crop to 2.39:1, crop to 2.40:1?
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:29   #48346  |  Link
Neo-XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, I suppose if there are clearly visible negative effects, then it probably makes sense to still allow NGU Sharp to be used without any RCA. Except maybe if the advantages greatly outweigh the negatives...
FHD to UHD (off / RCA@1 high) :



Zoomed (off / RCA@1 high) :



Sharpness freaks will not like it (if it is forced with NGU Sharp).
Personally, I think that NGU Sharp should be as sharp as possible.

Last edited by Neo-XP; 15th January 2018 at 20:34.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:33   #48347  |  Link
mclingo
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@madshi - passthrough HDR not working for me with latest version, shows AMD HDR in control J but HDR mode is not triggered on my TV, colours washed out. i'd switch to direct3d (native) rendering recently, thought it might be that but same in copyback. I'll wipe my settings and try again, unless there is something i've missed I need to do?


EDIT - wiped and reinstalled, HDR working again.

Last edited by mclingo; 15th January 2018 at 20:38.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:41   #48348  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
FHD to UHD (off / RCA@1 high)
Those are virtually identical to my eyes.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:56   #48349  |  Link
brazen1
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@madshi

With my GTX 960 4GB mild overclock or no overclock, I have never been able to use RCA, RRA or RRN with UHD. I take too large a performance hit although, you have stated RCA does not require any extra processing if I understood you correctly. Today I installed new madVR since you lowered RCA settings two increments thinking perhaps I can use it now. Still my render times go through the roof. Lowering chroma and image upscaling to any of the various algos makes no difference. I cannot enable any of them even at lowest settings. I use custom profiles for Processing. SD, HD, and UHD. SD and HD I can set the artifact removal settings from as high or as low as I wish, using all or some of them and take no performance hit. But using UHD, I cannot use a single one without becoming unplayable even at lowest settings elsewhere. If you remove the option to turn off RCA seperately and just add it to NGU Sharp, I'm afraid I will no longer be able to use NGU Sharp on High as I am presently for my UHD 1:1 sources. Is it abnormal to try to use RCA, RRA, or RRN for good UHD sources in the 1st place?

Just noticed user NeoXP wrote something similar......
Feedback coming in quicker than I can type. To be clear, if NGU sharp on high or very high is selected, RCA is automatically enabled even if it's not ticked in the artifact removal tab? If true, I'm golden.

To be clear, if NGU sharp on high or very high is also used in chroma as well as image upscaling, there is a performance hit when using RCA?
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Last edited by brazen1; 15th January 2018 at 21:12.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:57   #48350  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You're absolutely right that bitdepth is more important for content than rendering. The reason is lossy encoding which doesn't go well with dithering. I really wish UHD Blu-Ray would have been 12bit (or even 16bit) instead of 10bit!

<snip>

So basically I'd rate:

10bit RGB > 8bit RGB > 10bit 4:2:2 > 10bit 4:2:0

That applies to both HDR and SDR.
Agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I believe some (many?) displays which do 12bit fine are internally dithering. But I haven't seen anyone really test this (not sure if it's even possible reliably), so it's hard to be sure about anything.
Yes, I agree about other displays but it's not the case for the 2015+ JVCs. They have been confirmed as being 12bits from input to panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I fully agree, as long as you keep dithering on at all times. I know that some users thought that when playing 10bit content with 10bit output, they could turn off dithering. I'm not 100% sure if that's what you're saying here (it's not really clear). I think you probably didn't mean to suggest that dithering could be turned off when using 10bit output. But just to be safe no user gets this wrong, let me make clear that dithering should never be turned off.
Again agree, and thanks for clarifying as you're right it could have been misread. I NEVER turn dithering off (except when trying to assess differences/testing, but I always switch it back on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think everyone has the same issue, both in 2D and 3D, when not using custom modes. When using custom modes: I don't know.
Thanks, in that case I'd like to hear from users who get better than one drop every 2-5min with nVidia on Windows 10 Build 1709 with 390.65 (when using custom modes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
@Manni
Frame drops are every 3.5 minutes in 3D. FSE or Windowed makes no difference. Tip that might help you engage 3D windowed:

<snip>
Thanks that's super useful, it might indeed explain why some need FSE and others don't. I'll give it a try as soon as I can and will report back. I always have 3D enabled with my batch files, so that's definitely not the issue.
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Last edited by Manni; 15th January 2018 at 21:10.
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Old 15th January 2018, 20:59   #48351  |  Link
JarrettH
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How will I know if NGU + RCA combined is running?

I'll just wait for the updated build for NGU + RCA behaviour fix. Thanks for the deband toggle key!

Last edited by JarrettH; 15th January 2018 at 21:32.
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Old 15th January 2018, 21:18   #48352  |  Link
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There is a "Deblock" step when you display stats (CTRL+J) if RCA is running separately from NGU Sharp.

You also need to create a file named "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder to see this.
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Old 15th January 2018, 21:18   #48353  |  Link
mclingo
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im having trouble with HDR on latest release. On first go it didnt work, reinstalled from scratch worked again in MPC-BE. tested in KODI DS, got an odd green screen then lost HDMI handshake. Killed KODI DS and woke HDMI, now not working in MPC-BE again, rebooted, working MPC-BE again. Tried KODI DS again not working, HDR not triggered and washed out colours, also very glitchy. Killed DS tried MPC -BE again, not working in that either now.

Not really sure whats going to be honest, I know that KODI DS writes back to DS database for some settings like FSE and rendering, perhaps this is breaking it, will have to go back to previous version for now.

EDIT, got this sorted now, think KODI DS was corrupting my MADVR settings, reinstall of both resolved.

Last edited by mclingo; 15th January 2018 at 22:52.
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Old 15th January 2018, 21:31   #48354  |  Link
Neo-XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post

To be clear, if NGU sharp on high or very high is also used in chroma as well as image upscaling, there is a performance hit when using RCA?
You can not enable RCA for free for UHD sources to display them to a UHD screen, because there is no NGU Sharp used for image upscaling then (unless you activate supersampling).

But if you enable RCA for FHD sources to upscale them to a UHD screen, RCA will come for free if you use NGU Sharp for image upscaling.
It will also come for free if you use NGU Sharp for chroma upscaling and if you tick "process chroma channels, too" in RCA settings.

Last edited by Neo-XP; 15th January 2018 at 21:36.
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Old 15th January 2018, 21:32   #48355  |  Link
ABDO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.92.11 released
i do not know should i thank you for you great work in madvr as usual, or to the huge words that you write to reply to all this queries, thank you sir, in fact thanks not enough for your awesome,so still saying... you are the best madshi.
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Old 15th January 2018, 21:42   #48356  |  Link
brazen1
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Neo-XP
Exactly what I've been doing. That explains it. Thank you.
Thank you also to madshi as was previously posted not only for giving us this great software but for taking the time to reply to us. I don't know how you do it......... but you do it well. Thanks again!
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Old 15th January 2018, 22:05   #48357  |  Link
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@madshi Maybe another bug in v0.92.11 :



For luma x upscaling (after doubling) Jinc AR is used, but Jinc without AR is used for luma y upscaling (after doubling). How is that possible ?
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Old 15th January 2018, 22:14   #48358  |  Link
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@madshi, mentioned this before but dont remember anyone commenting on it. See image below, when calibration is disabled MADVR is overblowing colours on my system, dont remember which version this started with but the two latest had this issue.

Obviously these are just taken with a mobile so colours are all out of wack but you can see the difference in relative comparison, MADVR is on the right, EVR on left, both rendered in MPC.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0p6us5sl6...mage6.jpg?dl=0

.

If I turn on calibration and set it to DCI-P3 / power curve 2.20 it corrects the image, surely uncalibrated should push out the same image as EVR renderer, colourwise, or has it always been this way and ive just not noticed?

corrected image which calibration turned on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogbao3dip7...mage8.jpg?dl=0

Last edited by mclingo; 15th January 2018 at 22:18.
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Old 15th January 2018, 22:53   #48359  |  Link
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If you have a wide-gamut screen (like DCI-P3 or BT.2020), you need to tell madVR the respective gamut, otherwise its going to assume BT.709, which results in over-saturated colors. Perhaps it could try to be smarter and read that information from the EDID, but its hardly a new issue. You need to configure this stuff for an accurate picture.
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Old 15th January 2018, 23:16   #48360  |  Link
mclingo
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If you have a wide-gamut screen....
Its an LG OLED EF950 2015 4k HDR model, that'll be it then, thanks.
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