multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[morfeu78]

Hi deank, I have been reading about your efforts and registered to offer any help you need with testing multiAVCHD with the Panny SDHC reader, since mine is able to show AVCHD. Unfortunately the only thing that it was capable of reproducing till now are sdhc straight from the camera (or at least a copy of the structure) and edited mts, from the camera, in panny hd writer 2.5e.

[deank]

It seems that Panasonic TVs that read SD avchd use really stripped index.bdm and movieobject.bdm.

If you can send me some small clips (with the whole PRIVATE\AVCHD folder) for tests it will be great.

[morfeu78]

Sd Avchd withou Menus and SD AVCHD with menus. Both were created with HDwriter 2.5e from panasonic, while one of them has menus, the files are displayed by the tv but not the menu, I thought it might be usefull so multiavchd could create a menu that would work in other players while staying compatible with the pannys.

[deank]

Many thanks

[morfeu78]

I hope it helps

[deank]

I'm generating AVCHD folder with 5 seconds clips for these resolutions:

1920x1080 -> 1920x768 in steps of 8.
1440x1080 -> 1440x768 in steps of 8
1280x720 -> 1280x496 in steps of 8
720x576 -> 720x288 in steps of 8.

Will post the folder for those of you who want to test with their players and will post the results on how PS3 acts on all these different resolutions in AVCHD mode.

Dean

[morfeu78]

Could you generate an 1440x1080 also? since that is the format that most camcorders use?

Edit: I think you are doing that for the green screen problems, so it's no use to make an 1440x1080, right?

[deank]

So here are the results:

1920x768 - 1920x1080 played at 1080p

1440x768 - 1440x1080 played at 1080p

1280x584 - 1280x720 played at 720p
1280x496 - 1280x576 played at 480p

720x288 - 720x472 played at 480p
720x480 - 720x576 played at 480p but bottom lines get cut and not shown.

So in brief:

* videos of width 1920 or 1440 play in 1080p
* videos of width 1280 play in 720p if height is greater than or equal to 584 (1280x584+)
* videos of width 720 play at 480p no matter the height

Best entertainment experience will be achieved if your input video streams have height of at least 584 pixels.

Tests are made with PS3 via HDMI to 1080p capable TV set.

I prepared an archive (73MB). It contains 4 AVCHD folders for 720/1280/1440/1980 tests.
***
@morfeu78: No, the idea was to check when Playstation3 decides to use 1080p/720p/480p and never 576p for widths 1920 and 1280.

[B4tm4n]

@ deank : I PM'd you back about testing.

[deank]

Yes, but whole day I have no internet and using GPRS/3G just to check what's going on around. I'll try to send you a version that does not contain any communication attempts (HTTP GET/HEAD) - tomorrow (12 hours from now).

You may try to see if tsMuxer and mediainfo work in MacOS environment.

[B4tm4n]

Originally Posted by deank

Yes, but whole day I have no internet and using GPRS/3G just to check what's going on around. I'll try to send you a version that does not contain any communication attempts (HTTP GET/HEAD) - tomorrow (12 hours from now).

You may try to see if tsMuxer and mediainfo work in MacOS environment.

I'm sorry I wasn't trying to rush you, I just didn't know wether you'd got the reply. Take your time.
I use tsMuxer all the time and it works fine.
Mediainfo I use the MacOs version, I'll download the windows version and test it.

[pdurand]

Originally Posted by deank

So here are the results:

1920x768 - 1920x1080 played at 1080p

1440x768 - 1440x1080 played at 1080p

1280x584 - 1280x720 played at 720p
1280x496 - 1280x576 played at 480p

720x288 - 720x472 played at 480p
720x480 - 720x576 played at 480p but bottom lines get cut and not shown.

So in brief:

* videos of width 1920 or 1440 play in 1080p
* videos of width 1280 play in 720p if height is greater than or equal to 584 (1280x584+)
* videos of width 720 play at 480p no matter the height

Best entertainment experience will be achieved if your input video streams have height of at least 584 pixels.

Tests are made with PS3 via HDMI to 1080p capable TV set.

I prepared an archive (73MB). It contains 4 AVCHD folders for 720/1280/1440/1980 tests.
***

Many thx again for these clarifications. I really think that non standard "1080p intended" mkv/avchd are not a problem since the vertical resolution is generally > to 720 lines -> it will switch the ps3 in 1080p mode.

The main problem is with non-standard "720p intended" mkv/avchd. Many of them are < to 576 lines (ex. 1280x532). These will show in 480p and not in 720p with the ps3.

It's so bad there is no way to "force" ps3 to use a 720p then instead of 480p.

Many thx again for your help and good work

[robshot]

PDurand,
I'm a little confused with your statement
"Many thx again for these clarifications. I really think that non standard "1080p intended" mkv/avchd are not a problem since the vertical resolution is generally > to 720 lines -> it will switch the ps3 in 1080p mode.

The main problem is with non-standard "720p intended" mkv/avchd. Many of them are < to 576 lines (ex. 1280x532). These will show in 480p and not in 720p with the ps3.

It's so bad there is no way to "force" ps3 to use a 720p then instead of 480p."

I tested my PS3 with multiAVCHD of several titles with different 720p resolutions.
1. My TV is set to 720p (a 19 inch Samsung with max. res. of 1080i )
2. PS3 connected via HDMI to Samsung, and PS3 resolution is set to 720p.
3. MultiAVCHD with Title 1 of 1280x532, Title 2 1280x720, Title 3 1280x720
4. The PS3 output for Title 1 on Samsung 19" is video aligned on top, with black bars on bottom, subtitles on video area, and display does not change to 480p.
5. PS3 output for Title 2 is full wide-screen with subtitle on video area.
6. Disc created with height adjustment option in multiAVCHD authoring tab. This does'nt affect the 1280x720 Title.
7. Checking the TV system, it still show display of 720p, not 480p.
Am I missing something? Can you please explain what it was that made your 1280 x >576 video plays at 480p?

cheers
robshot

[deank]

@robshop: Are you saying that your TV stays at 720p when you play 1280x532?

That's why I created these AVCHD_Resolution_tests for 1920/1440/1280/720 with different heights. (I'll provide a link later)

It could be that PS3 does not switch to 480p but my TV (and pdurand's) do.

I may try to connect my PS3 to the tv in the other room and perform the test again. It runs in 720p with max. resolution of 1080i.

[pdurand]

Originally Posted by deank

@robshop: Are youe saying that your TV stays at 720p when you play 1280x532?

That's why I created these AVCHD_Resolution_tests for 1920/1440/1280/720 with different heights. (I'll provide a link later)

It could be that PS3 does not switch to 480p but my TV (and pdurand's) do.

I may try to connect my PS3 to the tv in the other room and perform the test again. It runs in 720p with max. resolution of 1080i.

Yep mine (pionneer plasma 50') switches to 480p. could it be a pionneer bug?

[deank]

I doubt it. Mine is Panasonic 42 and acts the same way. I'll test with Philips 42 (max 1080i) later.

[robshot]

I'll do more test again tonight. Right now still office hours. As far as I remember from last night, the Display Setting on PS3 menu for my tv is set to 720p, I didn't use the max. 1080i that my TV can do.

Deank:
As per the issue on PS3 non-compilant encoding, I found this on the other forum:

"ultratoto14
28th November 2007, 23:51
well i found the problem with why 1080p and some 720p dont play.

its because they were encoded with the "--me umh" option to x264 which ps3 does not support.

Im not sure if this is a ps3 bug, or is umh mode not part of the official 264 specs?
There is no fix, stream must be re-encoded.

I will add detection to the next version.

x264 - core 56 svn-680 - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec - Copyleft 2005 - http://www.videolan.org/x264.html - options: cabac=1 ref=7 deblock=1:-2:-1 analyse=0x3:0x133 me=umh subme=6 brdo=1 mixed_ref=1 me_range=16 chroma_me=1 trellis=1 8x8dct=1 cqm=0 deadzone=21,11 chroma_qp_offset=0 threads=6 nr=0 decimate=1 mbaff=0 bframes=3 b_pyramid=1 b_adapt=1 b_bias=0 direct=3 wpredb=1 bime=1 keyint=250 keyint_min=25 scenecut=40(pre) rc=2pass bitrate=3388 ratetol=1.0 rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' qcomp=0.60 qpmin=10 qpmax=51 qpstep=4 cplxblur=20.0 qblur=0.5 ip_ratio=1.40 pb_ratio=1.30

PLAYS on ps3
x264 - core 56 svn-680 - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec - Copyleft 2005 - http://www.videolan.org/x264.html - options: cabac=1 ref=4 deblock=1:-2:-1 analyse=0x3:0x133 me=hex subme=6 brdo=1 mixed_ref=0 me_range=16 chroma_me=1 trellis=1 8x8dct=1 cqm=0 deadzone=21,11 chroma_qp_offset=0 threads=6 nr=0 decimate=1 mbaff=0 bframes=3 b_pyramid=1 b_adapt=1 b_bias=0 direct=3 wpredb=1 bime=1 keyint=250 keyint_min=25 scenecut=40(pre) rc=2pass bitrate=3170 ratetol=1.0 rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' qcomp=0.60 qpmin=10 qpmax=51 qpstep=4 cplxblur=20.0 qblur=0.5 ip_ratio=1.40 pb_ratio=1.30


In my library, i found that umh is not the problem but the number of reference frames in case of umh. Lower or equal to 6 works. Each file that does not work on PS3 has umh and ref >= 7."

The GOTSent program seems to detect this and give error message that "This AVC file is not playable on PS3 (black screen)" when I input .mkv of such encoding. When I input .mkv with profile 3.1, but with correct x264 encoding, the program will accept without giving the above error. During the process, mediainfo window will appear and change level to 4.1.

[deank]

I just created 3 avc files. 1st with ref=4, 2nd ref=5 and 3rd ref=6. Three were with most basic settings and only the 1st one played - other two gave black screen. This is for 1920x1080

Then another test with ref=4 ... ref=9 for 1280x720. All worked.

So I'll make multiAVCHD to check for reference frames >4 for 1920 and ref>9 for 1280.

[x] Issue warning
[x] Do not add to output AVCHD structure.

Also note that the ITU-T specification limits DPB and thus limit the ref for each level. If adhering to Level 4.1 specs, the maximum ref for full height 720p and 1080p video are 9 and 4 respectively. But if the video's height is not the full 720 or 1080 pixels, a higher ref can be used. Level 4.1 is the level implemented on Blu-ray and HD DVD, and the highest level supported in most consumer electronics which support H.264 playback, including Xbox 360, Playstation 3 and Popcorn Hour A-100 Media Extender. The formula for calculating maximum ref is as follows, the value should be rounded down:

maximum ref = 12288 * 1024 / ( width * height * 1.5)

[coolalibaba]

hi deank,
I'm not able to open your site: multiavchd.deanbg.com. Is it open or that is only my problem? I tried the site from 2 different servers in different network.

[deank]

No, it is not problem with your servers.

I still have no internet connection to my server. It will be fixed within the hour.

Dean

edit: It is up now.