Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th February 2024, 06:29   #21  |  Link
rwill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 399
Well if one does not need inter layer prediction it is pretty easy to merge two HEVC streams into one MV-HEVC stream...

Doing inter layer is pretty easy too if one can modify the reference picture list setup of layer > 0.

I wonder why there is no patch for x265 yet.
rwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2024, 22:19   #22  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwill View Post
Well if one does not need inter layer prediction it is pretty easy to merge two HEVC streams into one MV-HEVC stream...

Doing inter layer is pretty easy too if one can modify the reference picture list setup of layer > 0
And interlayer is pretty important! That gives ~20% instead of 100% added bitrate for stereo 3D.

Quote:
I wonder why there is no patch for x265 yet.
Why? It's work that engineers would have to do instead of doing something else.

Among other things, x265 would need a way to input multiple synchronized sources to encode from. Getting interlayer working, including rate control. Getting all the signaling working and tested. The R&D is much more D than R, but it's still work for multiple developers for multiple months.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2024, 22:36   #23  |  Link
kagami.h
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 4
Ben, could you please look at https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...69#post1997769
I made a post here, but then it disappeared for some reason.
kagami.h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2024, 09:45   #24  |  Link
rwill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
And interlayer is pretty important! That gives ~20% instead of 100% added bitrate for stereo 3D.
Well from my tests the second layer is more like 40%-70% of the first layer, depending on how clean the content is or if there is grain etc. For real 3D Cinema content anyway. Sure one can make the second view a little worse quality but this was not accepted here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Why? It's work that engineers would have to do instead of doing something else.

Among other things, x265 would need a way to input multiple synchronized sources to encode from. Getting interlayer working, including rate control. Getting all the signaling working and tested. The R&D is much more D than R, but it's still work for multiple developers for multiple months.
Strange, I know of one HEVC production encoder that got extended to MV-HEVC where it took a single engineer around 2 weeks, including changing certain parts of the reference decoder for testing.
rwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2024, 12:04   #25  |  Link
kagami.h
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwill View Post
Well from my tests the second layer is more like 40%-70% of the first layer, depending on how clean the content is or if there is grain etc. For real 3D Cinema content anyway. Sure one can make the second view a little worse quality but this was not accepted here.
Right, they report 32% savings for MV-HEVC versus simulcast in the paper.
kagami.h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2024, 05:50   #26  |  Link
MSwanson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 1
Thought I'd weigh-in on some of this. For context, I've written a bit about what Apple is doing with MV-HEVC here: https://blog.mikeswanson.com/post/74.../spatial-video

Also, the Apple streams I've looked at show ~50% savings for the second layer. Interestingly, this doesn't appear to be the same encoder as what is currently provided in AVFoundation. Or at least it's a much more customized/future version. As far as I can tell, AVFoundation (Mac, iPhone, and Vision Pro) is encoding two separate HEVC streams and stitching them together with no inherent savings or inter-layer prediction. The AVFoundation encoder also doesn't seem to support multi-pass encoding or rate control beyond simple bitrate averages. I'm hoping that all of this improves with an upcoming release or perhaps at WWDC24.
MSwanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2024, 23:58   #27  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSwanson View Post
Thought I'd weigh-in on some of this. For context, I've written a bit about what Apple is doing with MV-HEVC here: https://blog.mikeswanson.com/post/74.../spatial-video

Also, the Apple streams I've looked at show ~50% savings for the second layer. Interestingly, this doesn't appear to be the same encoder as what is currently provided in AVFoundation. Or at least it's a much more customized/future version. As far as I can tell, AVFoundation (Mac, iPhone, and Vision Pro) is encoding two separate HEVC streams and stitching them together with no inherent savings or inter-layer prediction. The AVFoundation encoder also doesn't seem to support multi-pass encoding or rate control beyond simple bitrate averages. I'm hoping that all of this improves with an upcoming release or perhaps at WWDC24.
Yeah, the 32% efficiency improvement always seemed much lower than what should be achievable with a perceptually optimized encode; most times the eyes look pretty similar, with big regions often identical.

I'm pleased but unsurprised Apple has done better.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
multiview, mv-hevc, stereo 3d, stereoscopic 3d

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.