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Old 23rd January 2010, 19:25   #1  |  Link
Alba Ra
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free DVD authoring with specific features

Hello, this is my first ever post here on Doom9 but I have been an avid reader of this forum (and tried and adapted many guides) for a long time.

Recently I've switched from buying DVDs to buying Blu-rays and HD-DVD (the latter only when they are cheap) as my PC is equipped with a BD/DVD writer (that is also capable of reading HD-DVD). Well, when I bought my new PC last year I made sure he was equipped as best as an XP-run PC can be that is not used for games.

But for the time being I want to view that on my stand-alone DVD player, so I convert my new discs to DVD. (And no, there's no MKV playback capability, yet!)

Recently I thus backed-up a HD-DVD (Frighteners).

I won't bore you with all details (but you may request them if you feel they're needed to answer me correctly) but in the end I had them demuxed, treated and prepared so I had:
  • the original video stream VC-1
  • the English soundtrack (AC-3 in 5.1)
  • the director's commentary (AC-3 in 2.0)
  • two subtitle streams (IDX/SUB)

Now I'd like to know whether there's a free DVD authoring suite that can use these formats (without re-encoding audio and subtitles)?

I found DVD Flick but according to its website it can not handle DVD-compatible subtitles (like IDX/SUB created from HD-DVD/Blu-ray using BDSup2Sub). Else it would be perfect! (Because it this missing feature I haven't tried it yet.)

So basically the best solution would be a free (or even better: open source) application suite that can handle E-AC-3 (or direct stream AC-3), DVD subtitles (or anything that BDSup2Sub can output using the original design) and Avisynth script.

Any ideas?



To get an idea of what I've done, read Jeremy Duncan's VC1 encoding guide except on step 2 I used EVOdemux, also eac3to for the E-AC-3 audio streams and, obviously, BDSup2Sub for the subtitles.
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Old 24th January 2010, 03:44   #2  |  Link
rik1138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alba Ra View Post
Now I'd like to know whether there's a free DVD authoring suite that can use these formats (without re-encoding audio and subtitles)?
I can't help a whole lot, but if you are trying to make a normal DVD with assets from HD DVD or Blu-ray, you will have to convert ('re-encode') the subtitles as the HD formats use 8-bit PNG (possibly higher) graphics at 1920x1080 resolution with transparency. DVD can only handle 2-bit graphics with no transparency (in the graphic file itself) at 720x480 (and they have to be color-mapped). These will have to be converted before they can be used on DVD. The 5.1 audio should be fine, but the video will have to be re-encoded of course...

Subtitles from BD/HD DVD are not DVD compatible, even if they are in the same format (IDX/SUB). IDX/SUB is just a container basically...
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Old 24th January 2010, 08:11   #3  |  Link
setarip_old
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@Alba Ra

Hi!

The following was posted by "manono" at another Forum:
Quote:
You can, for example, instantly convert the IDX/SUB file to SUP (using SubtitleCreator) for authoring with Muxman or IFOEdit after you've got the video out of your MPEG-2 encoder.
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Old 24th January 2010, 14:54   #4  |  Link
Alba Ra
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And I believe I said that I converted the subtitles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alba Ra View Post
So basically the best solution would be a free (or even better: open source) application suite that can handle E-AC-3 (or direct stream AC-3), DVD subtitles (or anything that BDSup2Sub can output using the original design) and Avisynth script.

...

To get an idea of what I've done, ... I used ... BDSup2Sub for the subtitles.
Right now I'm using ConvertXtoDVD (by muxing the VC-1 video stream, the AC-3 audio streams and the DVD subtitles with mkvmerge to a Matroska file and opening it in ConvertXtoDVD) but I can't use Avisynth this way. I have read that this program can work with Avisynth scripts too but in my case it didn't. Besides, it ain't free!
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Old 24th January 2010, 20:11   #5  |  Link
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Do you understand that what was proposed by "manono" does NOT require AviSynth and scripting - and uses Muxman (You can use the freeware version) to create the DVD?

Last edited by setarip_old; 24th January 2010 at 20:14.
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Old 25th January 2010, 00:39   #6  |  Link
Alba Ra
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No, I didn't because a) I was asking for an application to use AviSynth with and b) you were talking of subtitles. Besides, when you said Muxman (freeware version) I guess you were referring to the demo version 0.16.6 - that does have no encoding option of its own and no menu creation as far as I can tell?

Since you mentioned IfoEdit as well: I never got the knack of it, i.e. how to use it to create a DVD from scratch. (But I've used it occasionally to switch streams to better remove unwanted ones.)

And:

Both IfoEdit as well as a free/demo version of Muxman are not longer updated. (And have lousy to no documentation or guides.)

Last edited by Alba Ra; 25th January 2010 at 00:47.
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Old 25th January 2010, 03:27   #7  |  Link
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1) By the way, I said nothing about either Muxman or IFOEdit - I merely provided you with (as I stated) a QUOTE of a statement made by "manono", who also happens to be a well-regarded moderator here.

2) Nothing in your previous posts to this thread mentioned "menu".

3) I've offered you a valid solution to your stated problem - using fewer tools.

4) Muxman is still supported by its author, who also happens to be a highly-regarded moderator here.

5) If I'd been aware of your intransigence, I'd not have responded to this thread.

Best of luck in your quest ;>}
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Old 25th January 2010, 09:25   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alba Ra View Post
that does have no encoding option of its own
Authoring means putting all together in the form of a DVD. Authoring means to author, encoding means to encode, burning to burn, and so on...Yes, there are softwares that have additional modules, but this is a convenience for the user, the very same way that a food megastore also sells TVs.
If you're not familiar with the terminology, probably it's better off for you to buy an one-click-integrated solution for some 50 and live happy.
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Old 25th January 2010, 11:10   #9  |  Link
Alba Ra
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Okay, I am sorry about the menu - so you were right. I guess I am struggling with a problem (that's the aforementioned backup of HD DVD) and it either comes out as out-of-sync or using intermediary re-encoding (which is one encode too many).

Okay, I started the counting off of things but only to make sure that everything is clear. (I don't like it when posters don't address certain questions.) Since you seem to take offense at that I stop that.

But I said I am looking for a DVD authoring suite. The encoding option (as Ghitulescu mentions) would be just that - an option. But a suite is more than a tool. Too me. And I guess that's where we got off to a wrong start.

I am really sorry that you feel pissed off by me. But I always (from the beginning) mentioned AviSynth (which is my part to get the same sentiments that you feel) which needs encoding and can not be fed to either IfoEdit nor Muxman. (I don't think I did anything wrong in my insistance - upon re-reading this thread and my reponses.)

So let me rephrase my request:

A freeware or FLOSS DVD authoring suite that takes AviSynth scripts (which provides access to uncompressed video that will need re-encoding) and handle mulitple AC-3 and DVD subtitles without re-encoding (especially the audio, the subtitles I wouldn't mind).

---

And I said nothing against either manono nor the developper of Muxman. Muxman looks like a handy tool for DVD authoring of DVD-ready streams (at least the demo version). It just doesn't take AviSynth scripts. As I said, I did not specifically mention menu creation - and that's where I was wrong and for that, again, I sincerly apologize.

And please let me say this without you blowing off the candle again:
Just because someone has only a handful of post, you shouldn't take his for a ... well, I don't know - by using the word newbie might offend the newbies. I said I'm using this forum for years - though I'm not passing my time on it. I believe I use Doom9 (both website and forum) since maybe 2003 or even earlier (since I stopped using DVDx as it didn't allow me to control the output size and quality - though that may have changed). And I'd like to ask you, as politely as I can, to read all posts in a thread (unless it's hundreds of pages long, I think up to three pages can be expected) to see what a poster wants.

Neither the quote of manono was useful (as it spoke primarily of converting subtitles which was already done and said so, and no link was provided to see whether the rest of manono's original post could have been useful) nor was the lecture on the term DVD authoring (as the initial requirement was AviSynth which always necessitates encoding).

So, don't make me appear as the bad guy! Intransigent? If the answers - for which I grateful anyway, any response is better than no response at all - so if the answers don't take into account what was asked for, you'd be insisting as well!

Or, you could have simply said that to your knowledge there's no such thing and that you suggest an alternative solution.

Well, now you've managed it I appear as a rambling fool.

Last edited by Alba Ra; 25th January 2010 at 11:16.
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Old 25th January 2010, 11:11   #10  |  Link
Alba Ra
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Okay, I am sorry about the menu - so you were right. I guess I am struggling with a problem (that's the aforementioned backup of HD DVD) and it either comes out as out-of-sync or using intermediary re-encoding (which is one encode too many).

Okay, I started the counting off of things but only to make sure that everything is clear. (I don't like it when posters don't address certain questions.) Since you seem to take offense at that I stop that.

But I said I am looking for a DVD authoring suite. The encoding option (as Ghitulescu mentions) would be just that - an option. But a suite is more than a tool. Too me. And I guess that's where we got off to a wrong start.

I am really sorry that you feel pissed off by me. But I always (from the beginning) mentioned AviSynth (which is my part to get the same sentiments that you feel) which needs encoding and can not be fed to either IfoEdit nor Muxman. (I don't think I did anything wrong in my insistance - upon re-reading this thread and my reponses.)

So let me rephrase my request:

A freeware or FLOSS DVD authoring suite that takes AviSynth scripts (which provides access to uncompressed video that will need re-encoding) and handle mulitple AC-3 and DVD subtitles without re-encoding (especially the audio, the subtitles I wouldn't mind).

And I said nothing against either manono nor the developper of Muxman. Muxman looks like a handy tool for DVD authoring of DVD-ready streams (at least the demo version). It just doesn't take AviSynth scripts. As I said, I did not specifically mention menu creation - and that's where I was wrong and for that, again, I sincerly apologize.

And please let me say this without you blowing off the candle again:
Just because someone has only a handful of post, you shouldn't take his for a ... well, I don't know - using the word newbie might offend the newbies. I said I'm using this forum for years - though I'm not passing my time on it. I believe I use Doom9 (both website and forum) since maybe 2003 or even earlier (since I stopped using DVDx as it didn't allow me to control the output size and quality - though that may have changed). And I'd like to ask you, as politely as I can, to read all posts in a thread (unless it's hundreds of pages long, I think up to three pages can be expected) to see what a poster wants. Neither the quote of manono was useful (as it spoke primarily of converting subtitles which was already done and said so, and no link was provided to see whether the rest of manono's original post could have been useful) nor was the lecture on the term DVD authoring (as the initial requirement was AviSynth which always necessitate encoding). So, don't make me appear as the bad guy - intransigent? If the answers - for which I grateful anyway, any response is better than no response at all - so if the answers don't take into account what was asked for, you'd be insisting as well!

Well, now you've managed it I appear as a rambling fool.
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Old 25th January 2010, 11:20   #11  |  Link
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There's none.
You may want however check Super and Stax, both being intelligent frontends to various freeware tools.

What you like to have is more like a swiss-knife so every brainless kid next-door would become the worst nightmare for Hollywood.

So, basically, there are authoring and re-authoring programs. For the first ones you provide yourself the material and you do yourself the menus and the navigation. The second ones take an already existing DVD/BD/HDDVD and change here and there the audio, subtitles, some menus, FBI warnings (for our colleagues across the big pond), logos and so on.
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Old 25th January 2010, 11:51   #12  |  Link
Alba Ra
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Thank you, Ghitulescu!

You meant eRightSoft's SUPER? I didn't know that it has DVD authoring capability. But you're right it takes AviSynth. I guess that you're referring to it's ability to create DVD-compatible VOBs!?

Stax I don't know! I can't find it on Google and I just found StaxRip on Doom9 which goes the other way (DVD => AVI/MKV/etc).

I remember that once, years ago (oh my, is that really so long ago), something as simple as IfoEdit with a WYSIWYG DVD menu authoring ability. And I believe it was free and maybe even open source. Of course, no AviSynth, no encoding, and I don't believe it took DVD-ready subtitles.

Since you mentioned HD DVD backup re-authoring programs: do you know one that does HD-DVD-to-DVD? I never even heard of one - neither for Blu-ray.

Anyway, it looks like I have to do it the hard way. And maybe I start learning how to process video streams and audio and program the swiss-knife myself.

(AVStoDVD looks almost like this swiss-knife except it seems to take only one audio stream - but I've asked about that already.)

Last edited by Alba Ra; 25th January 2010 at 11:55.
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Old 25th January 2010, 13:36   #13  |  Link
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Yes, you found them.

I'm not involved in HD-DVD or BD, so I cannot help you further. There's however a guide (maybe more) how to obtain those HD2DVD disks, just google for it.

For re-authoring there's a software BD-RB, see the corresponding thread. MultiAVCHD has recently aquired a re-authoring module (function, plug-in, don't know, I'm not in this stuff).

And yes, you'd probably have to do many steps by hand. That's life!
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Old 25th January 2010, 16:11   #14  |  Link
Alba Ra
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Well, that's too bad. So I guess I'll to do try it myself. Unfortunately I've done GUI programming only on Visual Studio and the output is necessarily dependent on .NET (which I don't like). And I have not yet done any programming on DVD authoring. But discussing that will break the bounds of this forum. Thanks again.
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