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Old 24th September 2022, 10:50   #1  |  Link
Moonbase
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Concatenate multi-part BluRay rips or not?

I like containers like MKV for the possibility of having everything in one file (i.e., audio tracks, subs, etc.).

I’m currently ripping my The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey 3D BluRays for use with KODI and wonder how you would advise on how to handle movies that are split into two BluRays (two MKVs now, in my case).

The main movie comes on two BluRays, thus splits into two parts:
  • The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey (2012).3d.mvc.part1.mkv
  • The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey (2012).3d.mvc.part2.mkv

I’m tempted to (demux-) concatenate these two into one large (~62 GB) file using ffmpeg, since the movie will almost always be watched as a whole.

Would you advise to do that, or keep the parts separate and trust KODI to play both parts using the same selected audio and subtitle settings? SView, for instance, plays the two parts just fine but switches back to the file defaults for audio & subs when part 2 begins.
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Old 26th September 2022, 19:30   #2  |  Link
Stereodude
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I joined all three 3D Hobbit movies together with MKVtoolnix, standard and extended editions. I also cut off the black frames from the start of the 2nd parts* as well as a few of the black frames from from the first part. The resulting files play fine in 2D on my PC and 3D via my Zidoo Z9X despite the warnings about joining them in MKVtoolnix.

*Note that the Battle of the 5 Armies didn't have a keyframe in the right spot (first frame out of black) in the 2nd part (either edition) so you can't eliminate all the black frames for them.

Desolation of Smaug (non Extended) I was able to eliminate all the black frames (on both sides). The other two movies go black at the end of the first part, and then the audio fades out. For those I left the black frames until the audio had faded out.

Last edited by Stereodude; 26th September 2022 at 19:34.
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Old 27th September 2022, 10:17   #3  |  Link
Moonbase
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Thanks for feedback @Stereodude! I eventually also opted for using MKVToolNix to concatenate the parts—much easier than using ffmpeg manually.

Just out of interest: What tool(s) did you use to cut the black frames? They could have done a better job with those, I think. (And thanks for the warning re "Battle of the 5 Armies"—this is the next one to be ripped ;-))'
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Old 27th September 2022, 21:15   #4  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbase View Post
Just out of interest: What tool(s) did you use to cut the black frames? They could have done a better job with those, I think. (And thanks for the warning re "Battle of the 5 Armies"—this is the next one to be ripped ;-))'
MKVToolNix GUI can split by frame number. I used the "By parts based on frame/field numbers" mode. I opened the source .mkv in VirtualDub2 to get the frame numbers I wanted to keep. VD2 will show you the frame type next to the number. K, P or B. VD2 starts with frame 0 and MKVToolNix GUI starts with frame 1. It seems like you have to cut on a keyframe boundary to get good results even for the end of the first part. For Battle of the 5 Armies I had to include extra black frames on the end of the first part. Even though I was cutting on a key frame boundary the resulting joined file didn't play smoothly at the splice. When cut on the following keyframe (with more black frames included), it played smoothly through the splice.

Also, it seems like it should be possible to do it all in one step with no intermediate files. Add both halves of the movie as the source and only include the frames you want in the output, like 1-25423, +27654-54323 (for example), but I did not have good luck with that. I had a spreadsheet trying to figure out the frame numbers and all that, but it just didn't seem to work. After wasting a bunch of time with that I just trimmed each part first to intermediate files, then combined those trimmed intermediate files.

Now I'm learning that mkv files don't correctly handle subtitles for 3D content. The subtitles can't have a 3D plane from the MVC file assigned to them in the mkv. Granted, subtitles aren't used for The Hobbit movies, like they are in Avatar or some other 3D movies, but I'm currently rethinking if I want to use .mkv for 3D movies or not.
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Old 29th September 2022, 13:33   #5  |  Link
Moonbase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
MKVToolNix GUI can split by frame number.
I’m learning new stuff about this incredible tool everyday, thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Now I'm learning that mkv files don't correctly handle subtitles for 3D content. The subtitles can't have a 3D plane from the MVC file assigned to them in the mkv. Granted, subtitles aren't used for The Hobbit movies, like they are in Avatar or some other 3D movies, but I'm currently rethinking if I want to use .mkv for 3D movies or not.
Hm. I decided to keep only MKVs (no need for menus and stuff) to have my Blu-Ray collection on the NAS, for KODI. I usually keep the "3d.mvc.mkv" (as ripped with MakeMKV), plus a "3d.htab.mkv" version for my dumb FireTV 4K KODI player on the Samsung 3D TV (made using a Win11 VM in Linux, and BD3D2MK3D). Both versions have perfectly working 3D subtitles.

Hint: Newer MakeMKV versions store a tag for each subtitle when ripping, denoting the plane it belongs to. Don’t delete these in case you want to post-process the rip (like with BD3D2MK3D)! Cost me several hours of re-ripping to find out…

Video encoding and muxing is a bit of black art, it seems. Looks like they keep the plane info for the 3D subtitles in the MVC stream, but the info can be extracted using (Windows) tools like OFSExtractor or MVCPlanes2OFS. Both generate .ofs files, but I wouldn’t know what to do with these. It seems you can not assign new subtitle/plane info into the MVC, only read the existing.

FYI, Mediainfo shows me these subtitles for "The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies" (German Blu-Ray), and all work and "sit in the right plane" when playing the MKV through KODI on my TV:

Code:
Text #1
ID                                       : 6
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #2
ID                                       : 7
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #3
ID                                       : 8
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Danish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #4
ID                                       : 9
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Finnish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #5
ID                                       : 10
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Icelandic
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #6
ID                                       : 11
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Norwegian
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #7
ID                                       : 12
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Portuguese
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #8
ID                                       : 13
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Swedish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #9
ID                                       : 14
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : Yes

Last edited by Moonbase; 29th September 2022 at 13:37.
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Old 29th September 2022, 19:32   #6  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbase View Post
Hm. I decided to keep only MKVs (no need for menus and stuff) to have my Blu-Ray collection on the NAS, for KODI. I usually keep the "3d.mvc.mkv" (as ripped with MakeMKV), plus a "3d.htab.mkv" version for my dumb FireTV 4K KODI player on the Samsung 3D TV (made using a Win11 VM in Linux, and BD3D2MK3D). Both versions have perfectly working 3D subtitles.

Hint: Newer MakeMKV versions store a tag for each subtitle when ripping, denoting the plane it belongs to. Don’t delete these in case you want to post-process the rip (like with BD3D2MK3D)! Cost me several hours of re-ripping to find out…

Video encoding and muxing is a bit of black art, it seems. Looks like they keep the plane info for the 3D subtitles in the MVC stream, but the info can be extracted using (Windows) tools like OFSExtractor or MVCPlanes2OFS. Both generate .ofs files, but I wouldn’t know what to do with these. It seems you can not assign new subtitle/plane info into the MVC, only read the existing.

FYI, Mediainfo shows me these subtitles for "The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies" (German Blu-Ray), and all work and "sit in the right plane" when playing the MKV through KODI on my TV:

Code:
Text #1
ID                                       : 6
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #2
ID                                       : 7
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #3
ID                                       : 8
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Danish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #4
ID                                       : 9
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Finnish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #5
ID                                       : 10
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Icelandic
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #6
ID                                       : 11
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Norwegian
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #7
ID                                       : 12
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Portuguese
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #8
ID                                       : 13
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : Swedish
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #9
ID                                       : 14
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : Yes
MakeMKV puts a tag that specifies this, but does Kodi or any other player read the tag? I have working subtitles in 3D .mkv rips too, but when played they don't change depth per subtitle like they're supposed to. They're always at a static depth. When I make a movie only BD ISO rip of the 3D BD the subtitles change depth like they're supposed to. The Zidoo Z9X definitely doesn't read the tag from MakeMKV.

You only need to assign the PGS subtitles to a plane in the .mvc. You don't need the OFS or anything else for a straight rip.
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Old 30th September 2022, 00:22   #7  |  Link
Moonbase
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That’s interesting, I always assumed the depth info is stored either in the MVC or the PGS. Unfortunately, I’m Linux-centric and thus only have MakeMKV (paid version) to rip to MKV, so no ISO rips. Maybe the decision to only keep MKVs wasn’t that clever, after all. ;-) Looking forward to getting a Vero 4K+, which is supposed to play the "3d.mvc.mkv" (original FP format) files.

Do you have a good suggestion for a 3D Blu-Ray where the depth changes are very apparent? Maybe I just missed it in the past and they actually were all at one depth… But I seem to remember I saw it changing once, only can’t remember which movie it was, and if I played an ISO or a MKV.

Last edited by Moonbase; 30th September 2022 at 00:25.
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Old 30th September 2022, 10:05   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbase View Post
the info can be extracted using (Windows) tools like OFSExtractor or MVCPlanes2OFS. Both generate .ofs files, but I wouldn’t know what to do with these.
Once extracted, you can verify their compatibility with a subttitle stream (XML/PNG). BD3D2MK3D has a tool onboard for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbase View Post
Do you have a good suggestion for a 3D Blu-Ray where the depth changes are very apparent? Maybe I just missed it in the past and they actually were all at one depth…
You might wanna try muxing to BD ISO with tsMuxer.
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Old 30th September 2022, 17:34   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbase View Post
Do you have a good suggestion for a 3D Blu-Ray where the depth changes are very apparent? Maybe I just missed it in the past and they actually were all at one depth… But I seem to remember I saw it changing once, only can’t remember which movie it was, and if I played an ISO or a MKV.
I haven't test very many of my 3D Blu-rays for this specifically, but it's been very apparent with every 3D movie I tested so far.
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