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Old 7th August 2016, 17:19   #1  |  Link
ewok_shaver
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Unable to rip the 2nd vid track of 3D Bluray

No matter what I try, I can't seem to rip the contents of a 3D Bluray I own in a way that also carries over the 2nd video track.

I can rip it as a 2D MKV or ISO just fine, but the 2nd video track never carries over.

I think the core of my problem is that my computer for some reason believes there's only 20gb of data on the disc (this is the size displayed for it's icon in the "My Computer" window), when in actuality, there is closer to 40gb of data on the disc. This size discrepency is about the same size as the SSIF file, which, as I understand it, is the data that produces the 2nd video track on a 3D Bluray. I can find the SSIF file when I explore the disc, and see it's full size, but in other ways, the computer doesn't seem to recognize it's existance and reports the disc's size as if it were missing. Coincidentally, this file is pretty much "skipped over" in all my attempts to rip the disc. It's almost as if the disc's been formatted in such a way that the ssif file is only half there.

Does anyone know how to get around this problem and rip all the video content of the Bluray, not just the primary video track?
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Old 7th August 2016, 17:48   #2  |  Link
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If you intend to watch it as 3D, MakeMKV will remux with AVC+MVC combined (MVC = right eye = 3d data = the "second video track").

You need a 3D player to watch it.

If you open it in MediaInfo, you should see that the AVC stream is listed as...
Quote:
Format profile : Stereo High@L4.1 / High@L4.1

But, if you intend to have just the MVC data by itself, then you need some of the 3D tools you can find here.
I can't remember how to do it this way. I've not worked with the MVC elementary stream for a long time.
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Old 8th August 2016, 18:56   #3  |  Link
ewok_shaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
If you intend to watch it as 3D, MakeMKV will remux with AVC+MVC combined (MVC = right eye = 3d data = the "second video track").

You need a 3D player to watch it.

If you open it in MediaInfo, you should see that the AVC stream is listed as...



But, if you intend to have just the MVC data by itself, then you need some of the 3D tools you can find here.
I can't remember how to do it this way. I've not worked with the MVC elementary stream for a long time.
Yeah, I've done the MediaInfo test and seen that the file is supposedly a 3D MKV. But until I can actually access that second video stream, I'll remain skeptical that this is indeed the case. At the moment I'm suspecting that this report of it having a second video stream is merely a case of an incorrect parameter existing in the header.

For one thing, this supposedly 3D MKV file is more or less the same size as an MKV taken from a 2D Bluray of the exact same movie. It ought to contain twice the video data, so I would think it ought to be roughly double the size of the 2D version.

My ultimate goal is to be able to get hi-res screencaps from both the left and right video streams. Previously I've been able to use ffmpeg to churn out the frames of 2D MKVs as a sequence of PNGs, and I'd like to be able to do the same thing with both video streams of a 3D Bluray - even if I can't do it with ffmpeg.

Can you, or anyone else, reccommend a specific tool for extracting the video data from my supposedly 3D MKV in this way?
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Old 8th August 2016, 19:36   #4  |  Link
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3D blurays aren't double the size when you remux them.
The right-eye data is never the same size as the left-eye.
The 3D depth is never so severe that it amounts to the same size.
For the most part, it's just very light 3D with some heavy 3D scenes so that's why the size can be anywhere from 1/3 of the left-eye to 1/2.
You can tell how much effort was put into the 3D production of the movie based on the remuxing.
In most cases, it's all post-processed so there's really nothing there.
Naturally filmed 3D with 3D cameras should have more difference when remuxed than some cheap after-thought movie.

If you used MakeMKV and selected the MVC stream and checked in MediaInfo and it says "Stereo", then it will be there.

The part that's throwing you off is not knowing how to properly view the MVC stream.
Playing it in a player, the player needs to be a 3D player (there are a lot out there that are limited; this requires a lot of research) and the player needs to be hooked up to a 3D monitor.
With MPC-HC + LAV (no ffdshow) + MadVR, you can view it in SBS. Or whatever you set it to. Then it's up to the monitor to play it in 3D.

You can start here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170828

It links to other tools like:
DGMVCSource (It's under a new domain: http://rationalqm.us/mine.html)
FRIMSource

I've used DGMVSource to view the right-eye stream, in the past.

For DGMVsource, it's been a long time since I tried it, but IIRC, it doesn't work well with random access.
It's better if you convert the MVC stream to something like a lossless intermediate (UT Video Codec, etc).
For 1080p content, this will take up a lot of space but you'll have better random access for jumping to different points of the movie.

These require Avisynth usage. All of it, except for using FFMPEG directly.

For FFMPEG, I believe if you force FPS to be 48 (or double, 23.976*2,25*2,etc), it should give you both frames, alternating.
Frame 1 2D.png
Frame 1 3D.png
Frame 2 2D.png
Frame 2 3D.png
But it won't actually label which frame is 2D and which comes from 3D. You just have to assume that the left-eye comes first, so every odd frame will be the 2D data and every even frame will be the 3D data.

With 3D DCP trailers in .mxf containers, I've converted to lossless intermediate and forced 48fps and it would do that for me.
Opening the lossless.avi in Avisnyth, I would either SelectOdd() for 2D or SelectEven() for 3D.
Playing sequentially, you'd have a seizure.

Never really tested that method for avc/mvc stereo files.
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Old 10th August 2016, 15:03   #5  |  Link
ewok_shaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
3D blurays aren't double the size when you remux them.
The right-eye data is never the same size as the left-eye.
The 3D depth is never so severe that it amounts to the same size.
For the most part, it's just very light 3D with some heavy 3D scenes so that's why the size can be anywhere from 1/3 of the left-eye to 1/2.
You can tell how much effort was put into the 3D production of the movie based on the remuxing.
In most cases, it's all post-processed so there's really nothing there.
Naturally filmed 3D with 3D cameras should have more difference when remuxed than some cheap after-thought movie.

If you used MakeMKV and selected the MVC stream and checked in MediaInfo and it says "Stereo", then it will be there.

The part that's throwing you off is not knowing how to properly view the MVC stream.
Playing it in a player, the player needs to be a 3D player (there are a lot out there that are limited; this requires a lot of research) and the player needs to be hooked up to a 3D monitor.
With MPC-HC + LAV (no ffdshow) + MadVR, you can view it in SBS. Or whatever you set it to. Then it's up to the monitor to play it in 3D.

You can start here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170828

It links to other tools like:
DGMVCSource (It's under a new domain: http://rationalqm.us/mine.html)
FRIMSource

I've used DGMVSource to view the right-eye stream, in the past.

For DGMVsource, it's been a long time since I tried it, but IIRC, it doesn't work well with random access.
It's better if you convert the MVC stream to something like a lossless intermediate (UT Video Codec, etc).
For 1080p content, this will take up a lot of space but you'll have better random access for jumping to different points of the movie.

These require Avisynth usage. All of it, except for using FFMPEG directly.

For FFMPEG, I believe if you force FPS to be 48 (or double, 23.976*2,25*2,etc), it should give you both frames, alternating.
Frame 1 2D.png
Frame 1 3D.png
Frame 2 2D.png
Frame 2 3D.png
But it won't actually label which frame is 2D and which comes from 3D. You just have to assume that the left-eye comes first, so every odd frame will be the 2D data and every even frame will be the 3D data.

With 3D DCP trailers in .mxf containers, I've converted to lossless intermediate and forced 48fps and it would do that for me.
Opening the lossless.avi in Avisnyth, I would either SelectOdd() for 2D or SelectEven() for 3D.
Playing sequentially, you'd have a seizure.

Never really tested that method for avc/mvc stereo files.
Sadly, your tip about FFMpeg didn't pan out. Doubling the framerate merely doubled-up the frames being exported. I checked out some frames with long distances between the nearest and furthest objects - the frames you'd expect to have the most markedly differant 3D views, but they are absolutely identical to their twins.

Shame. It would've been fantastic if my problem could've been solved that easily.

I can't seem to get either Frimsource or DGMVsource to work. DGMVsource is churning out: "Evaluate: System exception - Access Violation" and Frimsource is churning out: "Evaluate: Unrecognized Exception". However, you did warn me that DGMVsource can be problematic. I've never heard of this "UT Video Codec" format you mention before. The video converter I use doesn't seem to have an option for it. Is the extension .ut?

Can you reccommend a good converter to convert my MKV into this format?
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Old 10th August 2016, 17:13   #6  |  Link
Sparktank
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The problematic part about DGMVsource is not access violation.
That's something else entirely.
I have no idea what OS and what version of Avisynth you're using or how you're trying to preview/view the .avs script.
Or what you're script was.

DGMVsource requires you to demux the 3D.mkv you made from MakeMKV.

3D-BD -> MakeMKV -> eac3to (-demux) -> DGMVsource.avs

You will need to keep the eac3to log to see how many frames are in the video. DGMVs requires the frame count.
That's part of the issue if you lose the logs.

MakeMKV will create a combined AVC stream that also includes the MVC stream.
So when you demux, you'll only get an h264 stream and no mvc stream.
But DGMVSource can read a combined avc/h264 stream.

So your script should look like this...

(on a clip from Dredd 3D)

Dredd3D.avs
Code:
LoadPlugin("DGMVCDecode.dll")
DGMVCSource("Dredd - 1 - h264 (right eye), English, 1080p24.h264","",view=0,frames=9022,mode="auto")
#add crop here to remove black bars at top and bottom only.
#for 3D movies, there *may* be black bars on left and right, those will be different for each frame to create a 3D parallax.
#some times these blacks bars on the sides will be at angles so cropping doesn't work anyway, unless you overcrop.
view=0
0 will interleave left then right. Odd frames are left eye / 2D. And even frames are right eye / 3D.

view=1
left eye / 2D only.

view=2
right eye / 3D data only.

After you preview the script, whatever the modeyou can save to lossless.avi with VirtualDub.

http://www.videohelp.com/software/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite
Lossless video codec. Simple install, it will show up in VirtualDub when you go to save the script.

Load .avs into VirtualDub and change under the Video settings to "Fast Recompress".
Then change Compression settings to "UtVideo YUV420 Bt.709 VCM". Assuming the source is bluray. DVD would be BT.601.

Since it's a lossless video, 1080p resolutions, and depending on the length, you'll probably need anywhere from 100GB to 200GB.
For the Dredd3D clip that's 6 minutes, 1920x800, it ended up to be 13GB with both left and right eye frames.
With just the left-eye only, it came up to about 6.5GB.

But, at least, you'll have random access where you jump to any point in time if you load the new lossless file in Avisynth.
Code:
Avisource("lossless3D.avi")
With DGMVCSource, you can only frame step foward. You can try click anywhere to preview a different frame, but it will only go forward one frame.
That's the issue with it. It's linear access only.

Here's a small set of screenshots from that Dredd 3D clip.
https://someimage.com/jJld
In this case, it seems right eye first on new scenes.
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Old 20th August 2016, 12:28   #7  |  Link
ewok_shaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
The problematic part about DGMVsource is not access violation.
That's something else entirely.
I have no idea what OS and what version of Avisynth you're using or how you're trying to preview/view the .avs script.
Or what you're script was.

DGMVsource requires you to demux the 3D.mkv you made from MakeMKV.

3D-BD -> MakeMKV -> eac3to (-demux) -> DGMVsource.avs

You will need to keep the eac3to log to see how many frames are in the video. DGMVs requires the frame count.
That's part of the issue if you lose the logs.

MakeMKV will create a combined AVC stream that also includes the MVC stream.
So when you demux, you'll only get an h264 stream and no mvc stream.
But DGMVSource can read a combined avc/h264 stream.

So your script should look like this...

(on a clip from Dredd 3D)

Dredd3D.avs
Code:
LoadPlugin("DGMVCDecode.dll")
DGMVCSource("Dredd - 1 - h264 (right eye), English, 1080p24.h264","",view=0,frames=9022,mode="auto")
#add crop here to remove black bars at top and bottom only.
#for 3D movies, there *may* be black bars on left and right, those will be different for each frame to create a 3D parallax.
#some times these blacks bars on the sides will be at angles so cropping doesn't work anyway, unless you overcrop.
view=0
0 will interleave left then right. Odd frames are left eye / 2D. And even frames are right eye / 3D.

view=1
left eye / 2D only.

view=2
right eye / 3D data only.

After you preview the script, whatever the modeyou can save to lossless.avi with VirtualDub.

http://www.videohelp.com/software/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite
Lossless video codec. Simple install, it will show up in VirtualDub when you go to save the script.

Load .avs into VirtualDub and change under the Video settings to "Fast Recompress".
Then change Compression settings to "UtVideo YUV420 Bt.709 VCM". Assuming the source is bluray. DVD would be BT.601.

Since it's a lossless video, 1080p resolutions, and depending on the length, you'll probably need anywhere from 100GB to 200GB.
For the Dredd3D clip that's 6 minutes, 1920x800, it ended up to be 13GB with both left and right eye frames.
With just the left-eye only, it came up to about 6.5GB.

But, at least, you'll have random access where you jump to any point in time if you load the new lossless file in Avisynth.
Code:
Avisource("lossless3D.avi")
With DGMVCSource, you can only frame step foward. You can try click anywhere to preview a different frame, but it will only go forward one frame.
That's the issue with it. It's linear access only.

Here's a small set of screenshots from that Dredd 3D clip.
https://someimage.com/jJld
In this case, it seems right eye first on new scenes.
Awesome! Thanks a lot!

Turns out I didn't need to re-convert it after running it through eac3to - I was able to run it through an older, 32-bit version of ffmpeg from there. But it's worked great!

Only thing I don't quite understand about it all is that you said the demux would leave me with the h264 stream but with no MVC stream, yet by creating 2 avs files, one each for both the left and right stream (i.e. view=1 & view=2) that reference only the h264 file, I can still access both video streams. So, it seems the h264 file does infact include both the primary and MVC streams?

Regardless of how it works, the system you gave me does work, so thanks!
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Old 20th August 2016, 19:22   #8  |  Link
Sparktank
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I meant as in two separate elementary streams:
left.avc
right.mvc

But, yes, the h264 could contain both data to make it a stereosscopic h264.

Happy editing.
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