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Old 21st December 2017, 17:16   #1601  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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I sent you a PM with a link.
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Old 26th December 2017, 13:37   #1602  |  Link
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Small question about 'MasteringDisplay_ColorPrimaries', what to use for R, G, B, WP, when it only reports 'Display P3'?
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Old 26th December 2017, 17:15   #1603  |  Link
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Good question because there are two variants! Older version was reporting values for DCI-P3 D65. Now the same file is being detected as Display P3.

Code:
DCI-P3 D65 	0.3127 	0.3290 	0.680 	0.320 	0.265 	0.690 	0.150 	0.060
DCI-P3 Theater 	0.314 	0.351 	0.680 	0.320 	0.265 	0.690 	0.150 	0.060

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 26th December 2017 at 17:25.
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Old 26th December 2017, 21:46   #1604  |  Link
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These are 2 different standards.
1 is P3 with D65 white point, another is P3 DCI standard with different white point (this is rather not to be used with TVs, but DCI projectors).
It's either one or another in reality, they can't be both
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Old 27th December 2017, 04:52   #1605  |  Link
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Hoping that Zenitram can tell
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Old 27th December 2017, 21:03   #1606  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolak View Post
These are 2 different standards.
1 is P3 with D65 white point, another is P3 DCI standard with different white point (this is rather not to be used with TVs, but DCI projectors).
It's either one or another in reality, they can't be both
This is what (D65 not associated with DCI) I understood too
There is definitely some debate about naming, and I guess it is not a closed topic, but what I understood is that "DCI-P3 D65" was misleading for some people (critisism of older version of MediaInfo), as DCI is associated to theaters (DCI = Digital Cinema Initiatives) and theater don't (IIUC) use D65.

So "Display P3", name used by Apple, was prefered.

DCI-P3 D65 = SMPTE EG 432-1 = MPEG value 12 = Display P3 = Used by e.g. Apple
DCI-P3 Theater = SMPTE RP 431-2 = MPEG value 11 = "original" DCI P3 = used in theaters

values of R/G/B/WP for both were indicated by Atak_Snajpera, D65 (MPEG value 12) being used by "Display P3" in MediaInfo, the theater version (MPEG value 11) being "DCI P3" in MediaInfo.
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Old 27th December 2017, 21:11   #1607  |  Link
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D65 (MPEG value 12) being used by "Display P3" in MediaInfo, the theater version (MPEG value 11) being "DCI P3" in MediaInfo.
Thanks for that info!
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Old 27th December 2017, 21:35   #1608  |  Link
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Quote:
There is definitely some debate about naming, and I guess it is not a closed topic,
Again. I would definitely prefer neutral SMPTE names being used everywhere if possible instead of names associated with some specific company (apple). They haven't invented this standard so why do we promote them?
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Old 28th December 2017, 14:27   #1609  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
They haven't invented this standard so why do we promote them?
I already answered.
Seriously, doing the difference between 431-2 and 432-1 is not fun for people. and SMPTE didn't invented it too (EG = Engineering Guidelines, RP = Recommanded Practice. None is ST = STandard, so your sentence is wrong when you use "standard").
It is not about Apple, it is about what users can easily read (also 1 of the reasons I prefer AVC/HEVC over H264/H265) and use (the choice was made from a discussion with users).

I will always have some people angry with naming, whatever I choose, this time it is your turn, that's all.

If there are enough people angry with such naming and ready to sponsor the option, I have no problem to develop an option (or config file) for outputting different names (not only for colors, also for e.g. formats, I have such kind of discussion from day 1 of MediaInfo) or just technical things (for colors: the formulas or raw coordinates?).

Note that I don't close the discussion, but I listen to all arguments (not only the ones here), I need more convincing arguments for changing back / modifying default output.
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Last edited by Zenitram; 28th December 2017 at 14:30.
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Old 28th December 2017, 14:30   #1610  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenitram View Post
It is not about Apple, it is about what users can easily read
If thats your primary motiviation, then using "Display P3" is utterly pointless. I'm a user and I have no idea that this refers to (since I don't interact with Apple at all, I also don't know their odd choices in naming) what I know as DCI P3 D65. Why not call it "DCI P3 D65" and "DCI P3 Theater", that clearly communicates the two different DCI P3 variants.
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Old 28th December 2017, 14:36   #1611  |  Link
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"Display P3" means nothing if I can't easily find color space parameters like with "DCI P3 D65". You are trying hard to invent a wheel again with those "friendly commercial names" (apples's Display P3). x265 documentation also uses "P3 D65" name.

Quote:
--master-display <string>

SMPTE ST 2086 mastering display color volume SEI info, specified as a string which is parsed when the stream header SEI are emitted. The string format is “G(%hu,%hu)B(%hu,%hu)R(%hu,%hu)WP(%hu,%hu)L(%u,%u)” where %hu are unsigned 16bit integers and %u are unsigned 32bit integers. The SEI includes X,Y display primaries for RGB channels and white point (WP) in units of 0.00002 and max,min luminance (L) values in units of 0.0001 candela per meter square. Applicable for HDR content.

Example for a P3D65 1000-nits monitor, where G(x=0.265, y=0.690), B(x=0.150, y=0.060), R(x=0.680, y=0.320), WP(x=0.3127, y=0.3290), L(max=1000, min=0.0001):

G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)

Note that this string value will need to be escaped or quoted to protect against shell expansion on many platforms. No default.

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 28th December 2017 at 14:45.
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Old 28th December 2017, 15:02   #1612  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
(...) with some specific company (apple). They haven't invented this standard so why do we promote them?
Having arguments based on "alternative facts" does not help to convince, it actually makes some people like me (liking real facts) angry when such error is discovered.
https://developer.apple.com/document...8916-displayp3
"The name of the Display P3 color space, created by Apple Inc. This color space uses the DCI P3 primaries, a D65 white point, and the same gamma curve as the sRGB color space."

Looking for DCI documents (not Wikipedia links) indicating that this is "standadized" on DCI side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If thats your primary motiviation, then using "Display P3" is utterly pointless. I'm a user and I have no idea that this refers to
Sorry but you are not my only user and some other don't know "DCI P3 D65", if I make you happy I make others unhappy, why should I prioritize you and not others?
This is not an argument, if you want to convince please argue in a better way, less centered on 1 person only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
x265 documentation
I already answered to such argument (summary: x265 is one side, there are others), and you don't take in account my answers, so it is a bit frustrating and does not help.

I stop here as this is not a constructive debate.
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Last edited by Zenitram; 28th December 2017 at 15:59.
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Old 28th December 2017, 15:20   #1613  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Zenitram View Post
Sorry but you are not my only user and some other don't know "DCI P3 D65", if I make you happy I make others unhappy, why should I prioritize you and not others?
This is not an argument, if you want to convince please argue in a better way, less centered on 1 person only.
The only important argument is that this is the official name. DCI-P3 D65, as defined by the Digital Cinema Initiatives, and standardized/published by SMPTE. Any other names are aliases invented by specific vendors.

The argument you listed with how people were confused with the old name is also quite "me" centric on those users, isn't it? Double standards? Its a simple fact that both are called DCI-P3, one for D65 and one for Theater. There is no confusion.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 28th December 2017 at 15:24.
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Old 28th December 2017, 15:32   #1614  |  Link
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Quote:
I already answerd to such argument (summary: x265 is one side, there are others), and you don't take in account my answers, so it is a bit frustrating and does not help.
Yeah let's forget about huge base of users using x264/x265/ffmpeg libraries with those well recognized names.


Quote:
Having arguments based on "alternative facts" does not help to convince, it actually makes some people like me (liking real facts) angry when such error is discovered.
https://developer.apple.com/document...8916-displayp3
"The name of the Display P3 color space, created by Apple Inc. This color space uses the DCI P3 primaries, a D65 white point, and the same gamma curve as the sRGB color space."
Just another alias for DCI-P3 D65. That's it! Has apple contributed to DCI-P3 specification? It looks like another corporation trying to promote own fancy names. Nothing new here.

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 28th December 2017 at 15:38.
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Old 28th December 2017, 16:25   #1615  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
Yeah let's forget about huge base of users using x264/x265/ffmpeg libraries with those well recognized names.
Again "alternative facts" with "well recognized names"...
You think that x264/x265/FFmpeg are the center of the universe, this is your right to lie to yourself, I just inform you that arguing with such mistake (e.g I already said that "PQ" was requested by a sponsor from the industry who uses this wording and not the SMPTE number whose he does not understand) will not help to convince me that you suggest the right names to use in MediaInfo (MediaInfo is used by a lot of users who have never heard about x264/x265/FFmpeg). Note also that MediaInfo can live only due to sponsoring and sponsors have a priority (not a veto right, but I also listen to them) and most of sponsors really don't care at all of a "it is used by FFmpeg" argument.

BTW, you did not source your arguments, and I did not find something about "P3" in DCI specs (and erratas), as you know that it is DCI I think it would be easy for you to link to the corresponding docs and pages, it would help in an objective debate.

If you are interested in being constructive, please argue in an objective manner, respecting different points of view, instead of just trolling without listen to arguments from people not agreeing with you and not having the same priorities as you.
I spent too much time in trying to explain that there are different communities using MediaInfo and that you are not the only ones, if such fact is not accepted I don't see a reason to keep trying to debate based on wrong assumptions (here I spent most of my time to explain basic things like communities, which prevents to focus on a good debate)
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Old 28th December 2017, 16:56   #1616  |  Link
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Just use DCI-P3 D65 and Theater for god sake! Why do you have to ride on apples's d$%k in this case? Was that also a sponsored decision to use "Display P3"?
If yes then i'm ok with your decision.
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Old 17th January 2018, 18:37   #1617  |  Link
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Are we still with this Display P3 nonsense ?
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Old 17th January 2018, 18:49   #1618  |  Link
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Originally Posted by wiggaz View Post
Are we still with this Display P3 nonsense ?
"nonsense" for you does not mean nonsense for other people.
Are we still with such "argument"?
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Old 18th January 2018, 13:58   #1619  |  Link
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The previous method was clear, all the values were display and understandable. If necessary, they were usable to who encodes and who doesn't. Now we should take reference to other documents to acknoledge them.
I really don't understand the benefit of this.
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Old 21st January 2018, 11:37   #1620  |  Link
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please support this format too: Bink Video - The Video Codec for Games
http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm
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