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Old 18th July 2010, 18:13   #61  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
XBMC as mentioned before, has a dsplayer implementation which is basically a refactor of mpc-hc for exclusive use in xbmc.
xbmc has a beautifull interface so the gui problem is solved there
By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.
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Old 18th July 2010, 18:49   #62  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry;1418723[/quote

the seek locator could really use a brushup IMHO.
afaik mfc doesnt allow us to modify it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.
Its actually part of the xbmc core, we do try to sync where possible though. dsplayer doesnt have a gui though since xbmc provides that functionality.

We're trying to refactor mpc-hc in such a way that the player core is seperated from the gui, such an effort would effect in an identical core in both xbmc and mpc-hc, but so far all roads where dead ends.
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 18th July 2010 at 18:52.
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Old 18th July 2010, 19:19   #63  |  Link
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tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?

Last edited by Guest; 18th July 2010 at 21:39. Reason: 4
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Old 18th July 2010, 20:11   #64  |  Link
Brazil2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.
Well said, I couldn't agree more
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Old 18th July 2010, 21:40   #65  |  Link
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Ad hominems were removed. If you cannot post civilly and without attacking other persons, then do not post, or risk a strike. Expressing an opinion does not make one a troll or an idiot. Thank you.
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Old 19th July 2010, 12:30   #66  |  Link
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I was not aware that DSPlayer is based upon MPC-HC. That is interesting since I only use that version of XBMC to launch MPC-HC as an external player -which, by the way, is a seemless transition visually and remote control wise. The only minor drawback is losing the function of resuming from previous playback position.

XBMC is a good browser (although with high CPU usage), but MPC-HC remains the best player for my usage because it is powerful/flexible but simple.

I have no desire for a glitzy GUI. Indeed, I prefer the Windows Classic theme over Aero.
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Old 19th July 2010, 13:21   #67  |  Link
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DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC, SPlayer is derived from MPC but it lacks control over the filter graph so not very useful. With all GUI being OSD like WMP it looks good though. My StaxPlayer uses the same approach, OSD being transparent WPF windows on top of the main window so it's independent from the renderers, too bad StaxRip don't leave much time to work on it so I'm looking for programmers with VB.NET and WPF experience to join development.


Last edited by stax76; 19th July 2010 at 13:38.
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:53   #68  |  Link
GrofLuigi
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I would like to explain my aversion to skins.

Around the time Windows XP and its Themes service appeared, there were some (very slightly) older apps that didn't understand themes and/or were written without manifests and what not. In these apps, you could actually detach the theme from the app window if the app got stuck or responded slowly. Also, in XP, if you kill the themes service* you lose the skin, so it's very clear which one is native, and which one is added on top. I'm dead sure the situation is the same with Vista, and from what I"ve seen on 7, there too.

I'm firm believer in the KISS principle and nobody can convince me that, the more code executed is better than less code. Ever. It's not about the memory usage or anything similar, it's common sense (at least I'd like to believe that ).

Regarding non-native skins, my opinion is similar. Additionaly, since this is such a huge but under(man)powered project, there is a significant risk that introducing a whole new layer of code will add many problems we (I) don't need - the risk is far greater than the reward, at least for me. Even if implemented as optional (another dll, for example) - who knows wheter its entry points will be "clean" enough all the time?

* very recently (XP SP3 + 170 subsequent updates, clean install) I got puzzled by very weird crashes. Somehow the Themes service would lose "trust" (permissions) and commit suicide (crash) out of the blue, taking away many of its siblings (it's paired with Shell Services (autoplay), but others would also crash). After very extensive debugging (believe me, VERY extensive), nothing could restore its will to live. Format C: was the only way to go. I had no virus or antivirus and no hardware problem.

GL
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:58   #69  |  Link
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@GrofLuigi: Welcome to Windows. You should try Linux instead...
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:41   #70  |  Link
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It would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.
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Old 19th July 2010, 21:56   #71  |  Link
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I used to be a big fan of KMPlayer up until I got an HDTV. For use with an HDTV there is no contest for me. MPC-HC all the way. The only thing I would change is not so much it's GUI but it's handling of subtitles. I wish it used the same subtitle rendering engine as KMPlayer. But I am guessing it would not work in DXVA mode? Anyhow a bit off topic. I think it's GUI should just be a very simple skinning system then you can have a whatever look you want. But I would much rather devs concentrated on bug fixes and feature requests
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Old 19th July 2010, 23:12   #72  |  Link
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oddball
Sorry for continuing this little offtopic but what's wrong with MPC-HC rendering engine? All I know is it can be much faster (theoretically). So KMPlayer faster, this is what you mean? Because other than speed, MPC-HC's renderer has most complete formats/features support. Maybe different renderers producing somewhat different looking output, but if so - they are wrong and should be fixed. If there is something other -something that can be implemented, I believe you can express your wishes in the main thread, maybe they will be heard by someone.

Well, returning to the GUI. If there will be enough motivation to make a GUI, or even some new dev will step in, I don't think this will affect current amount of bugfixes. And you also shouldn't worry about new bugs that can be introduced, because for that new branch can be created and merged only when it will be stable enough.

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 19th July 2010 at 23:19.
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Old 20th July 2010, 08:27   #73  |  Link
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I am totally against any changes in the GUI. What is it lacking? It has very cool olsdchool looks, and does everything that is needed. It works great even in fullscreen.
If you want eye candy and crap, use WMP18 with cool little animated stars in every menu.
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Old 20th July 2010, 12:07   #74  |  Link
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- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm.
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..
- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.
- Windows 7 Libraries support
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago

Last edited by GreenEyez; 20th July 2010 at 12:09.
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Old 20th July 2010, 13:26   #75  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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Octo-puss
Come on, no one is going to take away your oldschool GUI! It was said that it should be possible to retain old look.
The GUI is needed without a questions. And because of that you can't say you against it. In the same way someone else can be against various new features because he is not going to use them but others will. The question is how it should be implemented and who will do this.

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 20th July 2010 at 13:30.
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Old 20th July 2010, 15:45   #76  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matching_Mole View Post
tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/To-Do and
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc...i/requirements , the 2nd page is a very crude wip aimed at developers
Quote:
Originally Posted by khagaroth View Post
It would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.
i will pass this piece of info on to the developers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC
Dsplayer is "new code" but the programmers used mpc-hc sourcecode and msdn documents as a base. some parts are very similar others are miles apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm.
We agree this could be better, but we cannot easily change the menu layouts without changing the translation system first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..
same problem as above, but additionally in some views only the rightclick menu is available. I believe a lot of the duplication needs to go, but we consider the menu bar and options the on device buttons, and the rightclick menu the quick access remote control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.
I agree, we currently use them mutually exclusively, but its difficult to program a single button in a logical way, a different solution would be to change the meaning of play and pause similarly to what foobar2000 does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- Windows 7 Libraries support
i dont know what you mean with that
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago
like i said, the gui can be changed by anyone willing and able, on the premise that it improves performance and/or code maintainability with the same speed as the current gui. this ofcouse proven through the scientific method.

On the subtitle renderer:
There is a project to create a new subtitle renderer, this renderer will be much faster and platform independent.
that said we will accept any improvement patches to the current renderer.
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 20th July 2010 at 16:31.
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Old 20th July 2010, 20:25   #77  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.
Well Winamp has them separate but if you press play during playback it will reopen the file like the MPC-HC hotkey "CTRL+E" added in revision 1986.
Either the keys are merged, behave like Winamp or stay the same classic way!

P.S.=> Remember to remove "Classic" from the player's name if you "modernize" the GUI because it will not be classic anymore.
MP-HC - "Media Player - Home Cinema"
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Old 20th July 2010, 20:58   #78  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post
Thanks Astrophizz , the ones done by Phaser look really nice.

Anyway, i`ve finished the 4th mock-up, with redesigned buttons to look like the WMP12 ones + a new speaker icon.

Very amateurish work. You are wasting your time.
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Old 20th July 2010, 22:54   #79  |  Link
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What part of MOCK-UP or Sketch don`t you understand? You think i`m actually going to spend time designing each little button/bar to perfection for something that may or may be approved. When the developers will start offering full skinning support in the (distant) future, then i`ll do the "serious" work based on these sketches.

Last edited by GreenEyez; 20th July 2010 at 23:01.
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Old 20th July 2010, 23:00   #80  |  Link
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Thanks, very useful. Now, from what i have seen in that roadmap, are you guys planning to ditch the internal MPC-HC filters for ffdshow ?
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