MPC-HC GUI Discussion Thread

[Karina]

collected at the source code of the first version bobdynlan
hidden panel Ctrl+0

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Karina

collected at the source code of the first version bobdynlan
hidden panel Ctrl+0

Thanks Karina. I like bobdynlan's work so much that I got stuck on the old build for a long time. I think he's still working on it in his free time though.

Hopefully you asked for his permission (if needed) and everything.

[Karina]

Tonight will be assembled with new icons

[ramicio]

If they were going to make the GUI modern then it would be called "Media Player Home Cinema." The Classic is thrown in there to emulate Windows XP coming with its old media player as a backup. It will and should always stay the same looking. Isn't the source code there? You could code your own.

[burfadel]

I completely disagree with that, having it so old looking makes new users think its outdated and underdeveloped, and quite honestly it looks... crap! Even the term 'classic' shouldn't be there anymore, as it suggests to people 'classic' as in functionality, NOT 'classic' as for the look of the interface.

There is absolutely no need to retain the current interface, unless the aim of the interface is to put off new users! Changing the interface to something that looks in place with the rest of Windows 7 isn't going against the philosophy of the programme, as long as it doesn't become slow, crashy, and bloated in the process. I'd actually say its detrimental to the programme to retain its current interface, because it needs new users to survive. MPC-HC already looks very out of place on Windows 7. We're not suggesting a radical design change here, the player window could have the same layout as it does now, just with fresh larger '3d'? buttons, and the button background being rejuvenated.

It would be unfortunate for people to be put off from MPC-HC and move to VLC simply because there are a few people insisting on keeping an interface that looks so out of place and dated on Windows 7 its not funny!...

Realistically, the changes to the interface as people have suggested on here if anything, aren't big enough! Ideally the programme should look good enough for people to want to use it, not just have to use it simply because under the hood its the best choice out there.

You could have everything from a new model say, Audi R8 and have it in the shell of a 1970's car (a pretty ordinary 1970's car at that, and one which looks worn), and people won't see the good features of the car, all they will see is the 1970's car. Even if they knew the underlying car was brilliant, they wouldn't get past the fact that it looks old, and dated. No matter how good the car is, they wouldn't get past the fact that it looks old and crappy. The same goes with MPC-HC, you have this 'brilliant car' stuck in an ancient shell.

[Midzuki]

@ burfadel:

I agree, the GUI of MPC-HC could/should be somewhat "improved", but...
*how much*? — or, *in which direction*?

I know, many/most people think Windows 7's "default look" is shiny and cool, however many/most "oldschoolers" think otherwise — that is to say, Windows 7's native look is a gayish festival of bells and whistles.

[mr.duck]

MPC-HC is without fat and bloat. Fast and powerful. It is function over form. The look should be improved so long as the same spirit remains. Make it look better so long as it doesn't damage ease of use or functionality in any way. That sort of thing. It shouldn't be complicated. Clean, lean and crisp interface using MPC for inspiration.

[Dark Eiri]

Just update the controls to Windows 7 style. That would make it prettier without adding any bloat to it.

[burfadel]

Originally Posted by Midzuki

@ burfadel:

I agree, the GUI of MPC-HC could/should be somewhat "improved", but...
*how much*? — or, *in which direction*?

I know, many/most people think Windows 7's "default look" is shiny and cool, however many/most "oldschoolers" think otherwise — that is to say, Windows 7's native look is a gayish festival of bells and whistles.

I believe it should be updated more than just changing the colour of the buttons etc, like some of the toolbar mods available, but not to the point where the player feels 'plastic'.

Originally Posted by mr.duck

MPC-HC is without fat and bloat. Fast and powerful. It is function over form. The look should be improved so long as the same spirit remains. Make it look better so long as it doesn't damage ease of use or functionality in any way. That sort of thing. It shouldn't be complicated. Clean, lean and crisp interface using MPC for inspiration.

I agree with that totally, and a change is not just a nicety, it is soon becoming a necessity. Since the player already has a very, very basic skinnable system, maybe an extension of this system should be done so that you can have the 'normal' new look MPC, and have a slightly updated 'old look' still available for those still thinking its 1995

[Karina]

version with new icons


http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/do...installer.html
http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/do...installer.html

[GrofLuigi]

I told myself I won't reply about this anymore, here or in another place, because obviously I'm a minority, but I just want to explain my position (of a conservative ) since I see it's grossly misunderstood. I can't speak for anyone else, I can only hope they have similar reasoning. And, mostly of this pertains to other programs and OSes, while MPC-HC being only a small part.

I'm a strong believer in functionality over make-up. I use a program because it allows me to do something, not to look at it. I'd use a screensaver or an art picture for that.

A button is a button. You can make it circular, square and few other shapes.

A bar is a bar. It can be only one shape.

There are well known symbols for play, pause, ff, rew, etc. It's all been thought before.

You can represent a film strip or clapper board in only few basic ways.

etc. etc.

There are some ways you can 'pretty' them up (rotate, add gradients, fake 3d borders or transparency...), but soon that will get 'old' with most users too. And you have pretty much wasted your time and resources with something that was of no use to you. It's favourable for paid software makers, because they can keep selling basically the same thing, but for such a project, starved for developers and other resources, I think it would be suicide to start chasing the latest fashion. Also it would practically guarantee unnecessary quarels and forking. Not there aren't any now, but it's a commintment to another (quite big) area to maintain.

Another matter is if some paradigm shift of user interface controls appeared (gestures, touch... ?) Then I think it would be necessary to add it, if enough users request it.

But so much ado about such skin deep issue? (yeah, bad pun ) I can't justify even my time lost writing this. I would accept any change, just to stop all the complaints, but I'm afraid (and pretty sure) they will never go away.

The only possible solution, as I see it, is to add full skinning system. OK, get done with it and let's get over with so we can return to DXVA and driver incompatibilites...

GL

[mr.duck]

Foobar2000 has a great plugin system. Everything in a plugin, even the default UI. MPC-HC could support the use of an external interface/skin for customization?


@GrofLuigi... I agree mostly with you. But think of Windows 2000 vs Windows 7 interface. Functionality is the same. With windows, a start menu, a clock in the bottom right. But it looks much better and you wouldn't want to go back after getting used to Windows 7. It is a much nicer place to be. Like working in a brand new, modern building can make you more happy compared to working in an ugly concrete block. We are not talking about changing a few icons. That's not going to make it better. Just talking about changing it so it is no longer grey and old looking like it came with Windows 95.

[ramicio]

Anyone who knows anything about computers knows not to judge a book by its cover. It's not outdated and old, it's simple. Simple is always better for the people who care about accurate results. It's not a product, it's free.

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized.

Who cares how a video player looks? Most people watch their video in full screen anyway. If you want to make your MPC-HC look pretty, code your own! If the default look for MPC-HC ever changes I will not update it anymore.

[Dark Eiri]

But there are different kinds of simple: foobar2000 is simple, but is still looks consistent with a modern OS. MPC-HC looks extremely out of place in Windows 7 with it's Windows 9x controls. It looks 15 years old.
I'm all for function over looks but there must be a limit for it.

Originally Posted by ramicio

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized..

CS5 is actually REALLY good looking. Actually, since 8.0 CS, it's been really pretty to look, if you're familiar with older versions.

[burfadel]

To all those saying functionality rules over a nice GUI, I'm not saying that you should fore'go functionality for the GUI, I'm just suggesting that the GUI should be made to be something pleasant to look at (and easy to use with bigger buttons) than something which you tolerate just because you want to access the programmes functionality.

Back to the car example, you can have the best, most 'functional' car, but if it looks like crap nobody will want it, and MPC-HC is already at that point. Most users don't know good functionality, and MPC-HC does require setting up to make full use of that functionality. People tend towards VLC because it at least looks like its not 15 years outdated. For MPC-HC to survive in the long run, it does desperately need to be modernised.

I also see there's a thread about OS X and MPC-HC. So, those claiming that it should remain how it is to stay 'classic', what do you think of that? The old WMP was never on OS X!

[tetsuo55]

@ALL:
Please keep in mind that we are completely open to a modular gui system that allows people to customise the gui in any way they want. Just like foobar2000 has.

However one of you will have to make this possible by writing the code for that.

[ramicio]

Foobar2000 is the same kind of style as MPC! Grey, simple. Foobar is also a mess. So disorganized, and it's not very useful. To me, it's something that difficult people like. The kind of people who have a compulsive need to use command lines to do everything. The same kind of people who strive to use Linux as a usable PC for media. Photoshop has been and always will be the same basic UI, plain grey with black text.

Anyone who buys software for the purpose of making a product doesn't care about how the software looks. They care that it's organized and makes a good final product. Anyone who buys software for something cool to look at are the kind of people who use cheap software that decides what is good for the user and offers no input for settings, the fewest steps possible, for quick results.

This is why I never understood why people take pride in their wallpapers. I don't even have any icons on my desktop, and it's black. I'm not for disallowing modifications, but I don't think the quality of the software should ever lose focus to people wanting looks. The default look should stay.

[Astrophizz]

Who says a change in looks would have to affect functionality/quality? I don't think that's a very good argument.

[mr.duck]

If you have windows 7 try playing a video in windows media player. The blue seek bar thing looks nice and could be shamelessly copied for MPC HC. Keep functionality the same. Keep dimensions the same. Just change the interface to make it more pleasant to look at. It is a media player after all so some people do care what it looks like as you do sit there staring at it.

[ranpha]

Originally Posted by mr.duck

If you have windows 7 try playing a video in windows media player. The blue seek bar thing looks nice and could be shamelessly copied for MPC HC. Keep functionality the same. Keep dimensions the same. Just change the interface to make it more pleasant to look at. It is a media player after all so some people do care what it looks like as you do sit there staring at it.

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.