Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > New and alternative video codecs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th June 2011, 07:35   #41  |  Link
henryho_hk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-Kid View Post
Did some more tests, here is the info:
What about decoding performance?
henryho_hk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2011, 10:49   #42  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,868
@Alex-Kid
I think you should add --aq-mode 2 --no-psy options if you want higher ssim values.

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 17th June 2011 at 11:13.
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 00:06   #43  |  Link
henryho_hk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 889
Since he is doing big intermediate encoding, would "--aq-mode 0" be better?
henryho_hk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 08:00   #44  |  Link
CruNcher
Registered User
 
CruNcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,926
yes might be seeing the results the blu-ray pros get with it @ high bitrates it might be backfiring (it needs to be evaluated) though then you dont improve on ssim but on psnr and can use --tune psnr anyways that also will disable AQ
__________________
all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :)

It is about Time

Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late !

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004

Last edited by CruNcher; 18th June 2011 at 08:04.
CruNcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2011, 23:16   #45  |  Link
Alex-Kid
Antronio's DV ambassador
 
Alex-Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 115
Well this is the last info from the tests:

Code:
CLI     CODEC/CODER     BITRATE     SPEED(fps)     SSIM(v0.23)
---------------------------------------------------------------
 (1)    x264            50 mbps     36.88 fps      88.66771698
 (2)    VP8(ffmpeg)     24 mbps        ~2 fps      85.55319214
 (3)    x264           100 mbps     33.23 fps      95.32942963
 (4)    xvid_encraw    237 mbps      9.93 fps      96.94023053
 (5)    lagarith       235 mbps     35.30 fps     100.00000954
 (6)    x264           115 mbps     32.62 fps      96.51400277
 (7)    x264           111 mbps     33.02 fps      96.45086489
 (8)    HCEnc          102 mbps      2.20 fps      94.13687145
 (9)    DNxHD(ffmpeg)  145 mbps     13.55 fps      95.35936372
(10)    VP8(ffmpeg)     84 mbps      4.38 fps      93.42168415
(11)    xvid(VDub)     103 mbps       ~35 fps      95.49778054


5759 frames, 29.97 fps, C2Q Q6600@2.4 GHz

x264 r1995
ffmpeg SVN-r25870-Sherpya
xvid_encraw (31-08-2007 build)
lagarith v1.3.25
HCEnc v0.26

------------------------------------------------
(1)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000  --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --ssim --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(2)
ffmpeg.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -y -b 50000k "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.webm"

------------------------------------------------
(3)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 100000 --vbv-bufsize 20000 --vbv-maxrate 100000  --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(4)
xvid_encraw.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -max_bframes 0 -cq 1 -quality 1 -vhqmode 0 -qmatrix "c:\Archivos de programa\K-Lite Codec Pack\Tools\Xvid_Quant_Matrices\Flat 8-16.xcm" -interlaced 2 -qtype 1 -threads 4 -o "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.avi"

------------------------------------------------
(5)
Lagarith (lossless, used as reference)

------------------------------------------------
(6)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(7)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --aq-mode 2 --no-psy --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(8)
HCEnc

*INFILE           c:\documents and settings\alex-kid\mis documentos\mis vídeos\test.avs
*OUTFILE          C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.m2v
*DBPATH           C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*LLPATH           C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*MAXBITRATE       120000
*FRAMES           0 5758
*PROFILE          best
*ASPECT           1:1
*GOP              1 0
*CQ_MAXBITRATE    1.000
*AQ               3
*DC_PREC          11
*INTERLACED
*TFF
*CLOSEDGOPS
*FRAMELOG
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           mpeg
*LUMGAIN          3

------------------------------------------------
(9)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -vcodec dnxhd -yuv420p -flags -ildct -threads 4 -b 145000k -an output.mov "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mov"

NOTE: ffmpeg encoded the file as yuv422p (did not recognize yuv420p flag), so the ssim script was modified as follows:

clip1=avisource("test.avs")
clip2=ffvideosource("GALV.mov", colorspace="yv12")

ssim(clip1,clip2,"results.csv","averageSSIM.txt")

------------------------------------------------
(10)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -intra -y -flags -ildct -threads 4 -vcodec libvpx -b 50000k -an "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\output.webm"

------------------------------------------------
(11)
XviD 1.3.2, EQM V3EHR, VHQ 0, MSP 6, CQ2, Keyframe Interval=1, slice-based multithread mode and Virtualdub 1.9 (Q6600@3.2Ghz ... lagarith running at ~40fps).
I haven't had the time to do some more testing, but I think that these ones should be enough. It seems that x264 is the codec to use for intermediate encoding (at least the free one), considering bitrate, speed and quality.

If anyone wants to continue testing, this is the link to the capture file I used.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

Last edited by Alex-Kid; 7th July 2011 at 05:32. Reason: Updating
Alex-Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2011, 00:53   #46  |  Link
henryho_hk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 889
Can u describe more clearly the sequence and the programs involved? e.g. what program will be used "to edit to make it highlights"?

I am thinking if you can use "makeavis.exe" from ffdshow32 to make a AVI wrapper over the AVS script which decodes the HD capture file. (btw, it looks more like 1080@30p)
henryho_hk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2011, 01:15   #47  |  Link
Alex-Kid
Antronio's DV ambassador
 
Alex-Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 115
@henryho_hk

Without intermediate codec:

capture.ts → DGAVCIndexDI → capture.dgi → capture.avs:
dgsource("capture.dgi")
(...) #trims, dissolves, etc.


x264 capture.avs capture.264 [final encoding]

------------------------------
With intermediate codec:

capture.ts → DGAVCIndexDI → capture.dgi → capture.avs:
dgsource("capture.dgi")
(...) #trims to reduce file size


intermediate-codec-cli capture.avs capture.ext [intermediate encoding]

intermediate.avs:
avi-/directshow-/other-/source("capture.ext")
(...) #trims, dissolves, etc.


x264 capture.avs capture.264 [final encoding]

Is that what you wanted?

Last edited by Alex-Kid; 30th June 2011 at 19:27. Reason: forgot "trims to reduce file size"
Alex-Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2011, 05:51   #48  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,991
x264 is about as good as it gets, provided you're okay with 4:2:0. If you aren't then you must look elsewhere.

10 bit works, but decoding hasn't quite caught up to 8 bit

ProRes and DNxHD are probably the best options available for this exact workflow to be honest... Not that they're always practical!
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2011, 08:54   #49  |  Link
henryho_hk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 889
um... sorry that I am getting lost... but what is the problem without an intermediate file? you can "import()" avs scripts of "stage 1" into "stage 2". is there something being done not using avs script?

Last edited by henryho_hk; 30th June 2011 at 19:03.
henryho_hk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2011, 19:34   #50  |  Link
Alex-Kid
Antronio's DV ambassador
 
Alex-Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 115
@henryho_hk: I forgot a step in the workflow, now it's added...

Intermediate file should help me to avoid crashes (due to many trims and dissolves, remember I use DGAVCDecDI) and to reduce file size.
Alex-Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2011, 00:06   #51  |  Link
Alex-Kid
Antronio's DV ambassador
 
Alex-Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 115
Added two more tests to the table above (ffmpeg DNxHD and VP8 intra).

About decoding performance: I don't know how to measure it. But the only ones that give me some problem on real time decoding were VP8 and DNxHD.

About the use of PSNR: I didn't find any avisynth filter or any other way to use it.

I learned a lot cli with this post, especially ffmpeg. Thanks everybody .

Saludos

By ALEX-KID
Alex-Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 17:30   #52  |  Link
kolak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 2,844
The best (fastest and most scalable quality ) intermediate codec is Canopus HQX, but expensive.

DNxHD in best mode has PSNR about 49-53dB.


Andrew
kolak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 19:29   #53  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,868
For me x264 at 100mbps is optimal. Fast encoding and fast decoding and it is free
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2011, 17:17   #54  |  Link
henryho_hk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 889
With XviD 1.3.2, EQM V3EHR, VHQ 0, MSP 6, CQ2, Keyframe Interval=1, slice-based multithread mode and Virtualdub 1.9, it runs at ~35fps giving 103Mbps with SSIM=95.49778054 (Q6600@3.2Ghz ... lagarith running at ~40fps).

xvid_encraw is not multithread-friendly at all.
henryho_hk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 11:14   #55  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,868
Quote:
With XviD 1.3.2, EQM V3EHR, VHQ 0, MSP 6, CQ2, Keyframe Interval=1, slice-based multithread mode and Virtualdub 1.9, it runs at ~35fps giving 103Mbps
Does XviD support interlaced encoding (MBAFF) ? I have similar results with x264 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode (~32 fps on Q6600@3Ghz). Lagarith tends to crash in Sony Vegas so I prefer format like mp4 (x264+aac) which could be natively decoded by Vegas without external decoders.
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 12:31   #56  |  Link
kieranrk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-Kid View Post
Well this is the last info from the tests:

Code:
CLI     CODEC/CODER     BITRATE     SPEED(fps)     SSIM(v0.23)
---------------------------------------------------------------
 (1)    x264            50 mbps     36.88 fps      88.66771698
 (2)    VP8(ffmpeg)     24 mbps        ~2 fps      85.55319214
 (3)    x264           100 mbps     33.23 fps      95.32942963
 (4)    xvid_encraw    237 mbps      9.93 fps      96.94023053
 (5)    lagarith       235 mbps     35.30 fps     100.00000954
 (6)    x264           115 mbps     32.62 fps      96.51400277
 (7)    x264           111 mbps     33.02 fps      96.45086489
 (8)    HCEnc          102 mbps      2.20 fps      94.13687145
 (9)    DNxHD(ffmpeg)  145 mbps     13.55 fps      95.35936372
(10)    VP8(ffmpeg)     84 mbps      4.38 fps      93.42168415


5759 frames, 29.97 fps, C2Q Q6600@2.4 GHz

x264 r1995
ffmpeg SVN-r25870-Sherpya
xvid_encraw (31-08-2007 build)
lagarith v1.3.25
HCEnc v0.26

------------------------------------------------
(1)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000  --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --ssim --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(2)
ffmpeg.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -y -b 50000k "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.webm"

------------------------------------------------
(3)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 100000 --vbv-bufsize 20000 --vbv-maxrate 100000  --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(4)
xvid_encraw.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -max_bframes 0 -cq 1 -quality 1 -vhqmode 0 -qmatrix "c:\Archivos de programa\K-Lite Codec Pack\Tools\Xvid_Quant_Matrices\Flat 8-16.xcm" -interlaced 2 -qtype 1 -threads 4 -o "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.avi"

------------------------------------------------
(5)
Lagarith (lossless, used as reference)

------------------------------------------------
(6)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(7)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --aq-mode 2 --no-psy --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(8)
HCEnc

*INFILE           c:\documents and settings\alex-kid\mis documentos\mis vídeos\test.avs
*OUTFILE          C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.m2v
*DBPATH           C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*LLPATH           C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*MAXBITRATE       120000
*FRAMES           0 5758
*PROFILE          best
*ASPECT           1:1
*GOP              1 0
*CQ_MAXBITRATE    1.000
*AQ               3
*DC_PREC          11
*INTERLACED
*TFF
*CLOSEDGOPS
*FRAMELOG
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           mpeg
*LUMGAIN          3

------------------------------------------------
(9)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -vcodec dnxhd -yuv420p -flags -ildct -threads 4 -b 145000k -an output.mov "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mov"

NOTE: ffmpeg encoded the file as yuv422p (did not recognize yuv420p flag), so the ssim script was modified as follows:

clip1=avisource("test.avs")
clip2=ffvideosource("GALV.mov", colorspace="yv12")

ssim(clip1,clip2,"results.csv","averageSSIM.txt")

------------------------------------------------
(10)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -intra -y -flags -ildct -threads 4 -vcodec libvpx -b 50000k -an "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\output.webm"
I haven't had the time to do some more testing, but I think that these ones should be enough. It seems that x264 is the codec to use for intermediate encoding (at least the free one), considering bitrate, speed and quality.

If anyone wants to continue testing, this is the link to the capture file I used.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID
x264 should also have --tune ssim.
kieranrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 14:56   #57  |  Link
vivan
/人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Russia
Posts: 643
Atak_Snajpera,
Lagarith... tends to crash is Vegas? о_О
Most of our amv-makers are using it as intermediate codec for editing, so it's recommended in some manuals. Also NLEs have problems with compressed video that leads to screwing up complex projects... So stability is something like: Uncompressed > Lagarith / UT video > AVC.
Anyway I could recommend UT video instead of Lagarith, since Lagarith utilises only 2 threads, so UT video is 2 times faster (or 3 times on 6-core CPU, up to 90 fps encoding/decoding on my i7 970).

p.s. omg, please don't quote this huge table, first sentence is enough.

Last edited by vivan; 6th July 2011 at 15:03.
vivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 15:37   #58  |  Link
nm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
Lagarith... tends to crash is Vegas? о_О
Most of our amv-makers are using it as intermediate codec for editing, so it's recommended in some manuals.
In my reality Lagarith is notorious for being buggy, slow and tied to one platform. The FFmpeg decoder implementation is a slight relieve on the last point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
Also NLEs have problems with compressed video that leads to screwing up complex projects... So stability is something like: Uncompressed > Lagarith / UT video > AVC.
You probably mean that NLEs have problems with interframe video. Try encoding AVC with keyframes only as Alex-Kid has been doing here.
nm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 15:43   #59  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,868
@vivan
Lagarith's 235 Mbps (~30 MB/s) is to much for me. Imagine that you have to work on few streams at the same time (PIP). I don't have money for big SSD yet.
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2011, 22:21   #60  |  Link
kolak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 2,844
Cineform or Canpous HQX would be good for you than
They are very easy to decode (very well threaded) and at 150Mbit have very good quality.

x264 at 100Mbit is great, but still not that easy to cope for NLE.

Edius exports HQX 10x faster than RT for full HD with simple 4 disks raid


Andrew

Last edited by kolak; 6th July 2011 at 22:28.
kolak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
codec, hdtv, intermediate

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.