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Old 29th May 2020, 02:30   #1  |  Link
egr
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What plays Ut Video Codec (ULY4) encoded from OBS?

Was looking into recording some game footage here and there and was told OBS is the best recording software for 2020. Since I want to think ahead of time, I've decided to record all my sessions in lossless format for both audio and video, just in case I need such a master or reference for editing in future.

However, once recording is done, no such player that I've tried (WMP, PP, VLC, MPH-HC, QT) can actually play the file back so I can see what I had recorded. Audio is played back but no video is shown.

Here's a sample 2 second clip: https://mega.nz/file/TKBSwAKB#Cx65gL...H16dEo6_yoDWEA it's a 586KB 7z file compressed, just need to uncompress it to its original 28MB avi file.

I've tried installing the codec for it that would supposedly let me decode and playback the video portion of it but nope, didn't work...

I guess I'll go back to FRAPS for the time being then as that was a solid contender also able to record true lossless in RGB colour space, albeit the program hasn't been updated in a while... Developer dead? But still works nonetheless(with extra performance hit - dunno why OBS doesn't have this issue or as much if there is a performance hit since both losslessly record...), I use it and then transcode to FFV1 with Axiom and those are my masters.
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Old 29th May 2020, 03:52   #2  |  Link
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first of all the video is blank explaining the very good compression ratio 7z.

then it's YCbCr so not absolutely lossless because your game/desktop is RGB.

you could just use a more modern lossless codec like h264 nvidia can even encode in hardware lossless these days not sure about RGB.

just to warn you you will get really really big files.
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Old 26th June 2020, 01:37   #3  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
first of all the video is blank explaining the very good compression ratio 7z.
It's blank because no software coder playback that lossless format...unless you were trying to play the 7z file instead of extracting its contents....

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
then it's YCbCr so not absolutely lossless because your game/desktop is RGB.
What do you mean by this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you could just use a more modern lossless codec like h264 nvidia can even encode in hardware lossless these days not sure about RGB.
shadow play uses h264 but does not use lossless and h264 does not support RGB colour space. And I thought h264 was older than uly4?
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Old 26th June 2020, 08:25   #4  |  Link
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That video is blank. I mean, it's just a black screen.
I even opened it in Avisynth with Avisource and LWLibavVideoSource. Nothing.

MPC-HC and it's internal filters should be able to open it. I've been using UtVideo Codec for a long time and do all sorts of tests and they play fine in MPC-HC.
Make sure you're using the latest MPC-HC from here.

It could be that OBS didn't capture the video and just recorded a blank video instead.

What game was it?
Were you using Vulkan for the game? I dont know how well OBS handles Vulkan API.
I think it can only do D3D9-11.

Did you make sure that OBS is capturing from the right .exe ?
Some games have multiple .exe's open (launchers, mod launchers, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by egr View Post
What do you mean by this?
Games output in RGB colorspaces.

Going back to a thread I started asking what to use for game capture, this was pointed out to me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shekh View Post
Normally with D3D9 only 8-bit backbuffer is possible (D3DFMT_X8R8G8B8)
Other API's (D3D11/Vulkan/etc) probably use 8bit RGB, too.

So, if you want true lossless (defined by colorspace, bit depth and the codec mode), you would need to use UtVideo in 8bit RGB.

Which OBS does support.

However, I just recently got back into screen recording and did some testing.

For OBS to capture in RGB, you need to use Advanced settings and change the Video settings.
I'd say try RGBA first (if there's no Alpha channel in the game, it'll just be an empty channel).
You may get glitches with RGBA. I did, and when I googled, there's still some issues for them to fix.

EDIT: follow link to image of corrupt example. That image just wrecked the forum width for me.
https://imgur.com/RZDTpct

You'll have to test this on short recordings to see if you get glitches.

However, settings for I444 gave me zero glitches in the video.
But! this gives you YUV colorspace. So you're converting from RGB to YUV, thus it is not lossless.
EDIT2: example of UtVideo Codec using YUV/I444: https://imgur.com/2egjn6n

I haven't tried the other codecs yet.

They did update to include MagicYUV, which does support RGB encoding. However, when I tried, there's issues there, too.
I have yet to fully test out how MagicYUV works with OBS.
I couldn't get MPC-HC to play it back. Although, I did get it to play the first time, I just don't know what I did to change that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by egr View Post
shadow play uses h264 but does not use lossless and h264 does not support RGB colour space. And I thought h264 was older than uly4?

H264 is older, but older doesn't mean useless all the time. Rather, doesn't mean deprecated.
H264 is quite optimized. It's very optimized and efficient as it can get. H265 is still developing.

UtVideo Codec is fairly recent. It's newer than FFV1 and other lossless codecs. But, it's older than MagicYUV.
Both MagicYUV and UtVideo Codec are very efficient and outperform the older lossless codecs.

It does out perform x264 lossless, iirc from some testings here on doom9 from a long time ago.

These are the top 3 lossless codecs out there people recommend.
You just need to test them and see which works best for your setup.

I've yet to do a full on test on what OBS offers and decide for myself.
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Last edited by Sparktank; 26th June 2020 at 08:31.
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Old 26th June 2020, 12:30   #5  |  Link
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the video is blank because it's blank the size is none existent...

x264 has RGB support it's called BGR is relative useless except for lossless encoding. the reason x264 is interesting at all is the speed thanks to it's very good multithreading support.

the encoding doesn't really care in lossless mode if one channel is Y, R, G, B, Cb or Cr they are all saved the same way lossless in lossy mode all channel needs to be treated as Y making it very inefficient.
if nvidia supports it is another story they support 444 lossless for sure.

edit: ok got it working in obs wasn't easy.
it works when the advanced settings are set to RGB full range BT709.
custom ffpeg output is needed with libx264rgb as the encoder.
it usages a different syntax as x264 and libx264 which are -- for x264 - for libx64 and zero - for obs but spaces between option names need to be replace with = as an example qp=0 is lossless.
example file: https://www.mediafire.com/file/vii46...00-27.mkv/file
other codec should be usable like this too.

Last edited by huhn; 26th June 2020 at 14:08.
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Old 27th June 2020, 00:12   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
custom ffpeg output is needed with libx264rgb as the encoder.
I didn't even see that they had that option. My mind just ignored all the other formats.
I'll have to try with x264 doing RGB lossless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
for obs but spaces between option names need to be replace with = as an example qp=0 is lossless.
I was curious how they did their syntax. When I tried to look up how to do their syntax, google results lead to everyone asking the same question with no answers. And their official help guide tell you anything useful.
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Old 27th June 2020, 17:37   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
That video is blank. I mean, it's just a black screen.
I even opened it in Avisynth with Avisource and LWLibavVideoSource. Nothing.

MPC-HC and it's internal filters should be able to open it. I've been using UtVideo Codec for a long time and do all sorts of tests and they play fine in MPC-HC.
Make sure you're using the latest MPC-HC from here.

It could be that OBS didn't capture the video and just recorded a blank video instead.
Huh.....maybe it did record just a blank screen for some reason but I wouldn't know as I assume OBS would do its job correctly....

I used K-Lite Mega Codec pack on the assumption that would be *the* pack to be able to play any file, apparently I'm mistaken.....or my media player is way out of date.....and so is the codec pack to not support Ut Video Codec...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
What game was it?
Were you using Vulkan for the game? I dont know how well OBS handles Vulkan API.
I think it can only do D3D9-11.
It was skyrim special edition, we was playing skyrim together and I wanted to record funny moments....since fraps had its problems with the mod not working....and apparently its only something the author of fraps could fix if he were still alive....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
Did you make sure that OBS is capturing from the right .exe ?
Some games have multiple .exe's open (launchers, mod launchers, etc).
Is there even an option for that? To pick which exe file it records?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
So, if you want true lossless (defined by colorspace, bit depth and the codec mode), you would need to use UtVideo in 8bit RGB.

Which OBS does support.
I don't even think there's an option to pick what bit depth to record at as everything gui side seems to be basics of the basics....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
However, I just recently got back into screen recording and did some testing.

For OBS to capture in RGB, you need to use Advanced settings and change the Video settings.
I'd say try RGBA first (if there's no Alpha channel in the game, it'll just be an empty channel).
You may get glitches with RGBA. I did, and when I googled, there's still some issues for them to fix.

EDIT: follow link to image of corrupt example. That image just wrecked the forum width for me.
https://imgur.com/RZDTpct

You'll have to test this on short recordings to see if you get glitches.

However, settings for I444 gave me zero glitches in the video.
But! this gives you YUV colorspace. So you're converting from RGB to YUV, thus it is not lossless.
EDIT2: example of UtVideo Codec using YUV/I444: https://imgur.com/2egjn6n
I've attached what my settings look like:


There's no RGBA, only RGB, i444, i420 and nv12....

I tested a few second session on the same game in i444 and same issue - black screen or blank screen if its just recording a blank screen for some reason.... What's interesting is the codec name's changed slightly and mediainfo doesn't specify its colourspace use is YUV 4:4:4.....

Code:
Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : ULH4
Codec ID                                 : ULH4
Duration                                 : 11 s 500 ms
Bit rate                                 : 321 kb/s
Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.003
Stream size                              : 451 KiB (93%)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
I haven't tried the other codecs yet.
...maybe I should update OBS if it now lets you choose to record in different codecs.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
H264 is older, but older doesn't mean useless all the time. Rather, doesn't mean deprecated.
H264 is quite optimized. It's very optimized and efficient as it can get. H265 is still developing.
I was told H265 was very well mature at this stage...or else why would movie publishers release their UHD blurays encoded in h265?


Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the video is blank because it's blank the size is none existent...
Could be I also screwed up trying to pack it into an archive file somehow.....or OBS captured a blank window or screen for some reason....instead of what I was seeing on the screen....

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
x264 has RGB support it's called BGR is relative useless except for lossless encoding. the reason x264 is interesting at all is the speed thanks to it's very good multithreading support.
Oh well it's an option in handbrake(lossless qf or rf is just as most bitrate needed to mathematically not be able to see any loss in quality, but the lost is already done by transcoding from RGB to YUV 4:2:0 once I open up mediainfo of the video transcoded in question as Sparktank has mentioned earlier - so that slider option isnt technically lossless without also keeping source colourspace, format and bit depth...) and axiom so assumed it didn't exist....

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
edit: ok got it working in obs wasn't easy.
it works when the advanced settings are set to RGB full range BT709.
custom ffpeg output is needed with libx264rgb as the encoder.
it usages a different syntax as x264 and libx264 which are -- for x264 - for libx64 and zero - for obs but spaces between option names need to be replace with = as an example qp=0 is lossless.
example file: https://www.mediafire.com/file/vii46...00-27.mkv/file
other codec should be usable like this too.
Is that doable within OBS itself? The custom ffmpeg output that is needed that is? Or not really for someone who only does gui stuff?

No one has posted a Ut Video Codec transcoded or recorded sample for me to playback since one person says it plays back fine on MPC HC....?

EDIT:
Hmmm, the updated OBS (to 25.0.8) seems to record in a different variant of the codec:
Code:
Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : RGB
Codec ID                                 : ULRG
Codec ID/Info                            : Ut Video Lossless Codec
Codec ID/Hint                            : Ut Video
Duration                                 : 16 s 200 ms
Bit rate                                 : 111 Mb/s
Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : RGB
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 1.002
Stream size                              : 214 MiB (95%)
Still can't play it back on MPC HC 1.9.6 which is their latest version... Its either recording a blank screen(which I've not yet figured out why)like you said or you're a liar and even the latest MPC HC doesn't play it!
Attachments Pending Approval
File Type: png Capture.PNG

Last edited by egr; 16th July 2020 at 07:28. Reason: Fix broken quote
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Old 27th June 2020, 18:18   #8  |  Link
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your file works fine in mpc-hc it's just blank. the very short file i posted works in mpc-hc too and it done directly with OBS recording options no plugin nothing was used. even through nothing was really moving the file need more then 20 mb sec with just 1080p60. so i will warn you yet again file sizes are going to be insane the codec will not make a major day night difference.
Quote:
I was told H265 was very well mature at this stage...or else why would movie publishers release their UHD blurays encoded in h265?
money bring something new to the market, 10 bit in h264 has no hardware decoder. HEVC is just very slow in comparison it should do a better job in term of file sizes but encoding times are massively higher that's why x264 is the codec for livestreaming for now it's not the better codec but computer can do it in real time and the quality in realtime is "better" with h264 then with HEVC.
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Old 28th June 2020, 03:38   #9  |  Link
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Use an external image host instead of the forum. With the forum, you have to wait for moderation.

------

If you keep getting a black screen no matter what, it's likely OBS is missing a configuration.

Start the game and alt+tab to get to your Desktop. The game needs to run to set up the recording process.
Or do it window mode.
As long as it's running, so OBS can see the .exe.

Start at the bottom of the program:
"SCENE", add a scene and name it anything, like SSE.
Don't remove this scene, as everything in the SOURCE box next to it will also be removed.

Now, add the source in the SOURCE box next to SCENE, and choose "Game Capture". Name it after the game, it won't do it automatically.
Then choose "Capture specific window" and pick the game .exe that's open.

This is where you can set Transparency (alpha channel).

That will ensure it's capturing the game and not the whole desktop.

------

Don't worry about the info I put up about bit depth. I tried to capture in 10-bit for extra efficiency when I edit something.
But, games run at 8bit, so 10bit is useless.
16bit can be used in Avisynth for the processing I want to do, and it's more efficient that way.

I digress.

-----

RGBA also useless info, it should be linked to the setting to allow Transparency. I imagine the devs set it up that way (it'd be smart).

I digress.

-----

maybe I should update OBS
Yes, update everything! OBS, K-Lite Codec Pack, etc.
Always update before asking. Only time to stick with older versions of anything is if there's serious limitations (like dropped support for Windows XP,etc), or serious bugs in updated verison that you've experienced.

-----

huhn has a good point about the performance impact your PC will suffer using HEVC instead of x264.
Since it's Skyrim, and you're playing with someone else, you're probably using more mods than just the co-op mod.
Any visual mods (4K textures, lighting, shadows, etc) will create an impact on overall performance. Combine that with recording, especially over 1080p resolution, you're going to get more impact.
Stick with lossless x264, etc.

-----

I only worry about colorspaces because I want to make a lot of wallpapers, so I want fidelity on the source.
After I'm done all the editing I want to do, I'll convert everything down to YUV 4:2:0, anyway. No point keeping full RGB to archive.

Since you're doing this for clips, and probably sharing online, it's probably better you record in YUV 4:2:0.
Use regular UtVideo Codec in I420.
-----

The custom FFMPEG for x264/rgb is already included in OBS.

Settings ->
Output ->
Video Encoder -> "libx264rgb (libx264)"

Video Encoder Settings (if any) -> (in the empty box, type in the following)
qp=0

You'll get x264 recording in lossless.

------

I didn't upload a recorded sample because the file was over 2GB.
For reference, the 1080p / 8-bit / RGB / MagicYUV (M8RG) running for 12 seconds is 2.2GB.
The screens I posted earlier were the results of my very short captures.

I did encodes in RGB/444/420.
They all look the same, really. YV12 was the smallest filesize.

Trimming the RGB clip to just 2 seconds gives me a filesize of 394MB.

2 seconds / 1080p / MagicYUV (modes: rgb/yuv444/yuv420)
Uploaded samples to MEGA:
RGB = 394 MB
444 = 334 MB
420 = 169 MB

------

For awhile, I've been using NVidia's capture service, since I upgraded to a GTX 1060 3GB.
Before with the GT 1030, these features weren't available (GTX only).

They capture in lossy 4:2:0, but use SD color primaries/transfers/matrix.
Quote:
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.470 System M
Matrix coefficients : BT.601
Regardless of the screen size you record.

So I've just recently switched to OBS because they added MagicYUV (very) recently.
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Last edited by Sparktank; 28th June 2020 at 03:48.
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Old 28th June 2020, 11:43   #10  |  Link
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it a computer we rare using here make sure you flag it properly as bt709 even with SDR it's supposed to be sRGB which is pretty much bt 709 with a different "gamma" i didn't see once in my live.
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Old 28th June 2020, 15:20   #11  |  Link
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The sample file plays blank with FFplay as well. So either something is wrong with the recording, or FFmpeg is not decoding it properly.

If you disable utvideo in the format settings of LAV Video decoder, then the utvideo VFW codec will be used instead if you have that installed.
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:24   #12  |  Link
egr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the very short file i posted works in mpc-hc too and it done directly with OBS recording options no plugin nothing was used.
Yes but it wasn't recorded with the Ut Video Codec...yours was done in x264 8-bit RGB lossless mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
money bring something new to the market, 10 bit in h264 has no hardware decoder. HEVC is just very slow in comparison it should do a better job in term of file sizes but encoding times are massively higher that's why x264 is the codec for livestreaming for now it's not the better codec but computer can do it in real time and the quality in realtime is "better" with h264 then with HEVC.
File size mainly relate to the bitrate of the video codec or at least as far as I'm aware of anyways. With x264, I know around (or so I've been told) 14Mb/s for 2560x1440p30, 9Mb/s for 1920x1080p30, 6Mb/s for 1280x720p30, 3Mb/s for 853x480p30, 1.5Mb/s for 640x360p30, and 750Kb/s for 427x240p30 (keeping 16:9 aspect ratio and in variable bitrate) is good enough playback without visually seeing any compression artifacting although I guess that can be subjective, but what are the equivalents of these bitrates for x265? How efficient is it? Of course you'll probably need to double the bitrate if you intend to show at 60fps or alter the bitrate some more for different frame rates as you can't have a video running 120fps look just as good as the one running at 30fps on the same bitrate and codec without losing quality which I've found out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
If you keep getting a black screen no matter what, it's likely OBS is missing a configuration.

Start the game and alt+tab to get to your Desktop. The game needs to run to set up the recording process.
Or do it window mode.
As long as it's running, so OBS can see the .exe.

Start at the bottom of the program:
"SCENE", add a scene and name it anything, like SSE.
Don't remove this scene, as everything in the SOURCE box next to it will also be removed.

Now, add the source in the SOURCE box next to SCENE, and choose "Game Capture". Name it after the game, it won't do it automatically.
Then choose "Capture specific window" and pick the game .exe that's open.

This is where you can set Transparency (alpha channel).

That will ensure it's capturing the game and not the whole desktop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
your file works fine in mpc-hc it's just blank.
You're both right! The video was blank...it works now after configuring which screen or window to capture, I just got it to capture any fullscreen application.... I'm sorry I doubted both of you.... I guess the issue was just me not knowing there were extra conditions - thought it was just as simple as load up OBS and click or hotkey the start and stop record buttons and that's it. Although I did muck around trying to record in lossless UT Video Codec which was their default lossless codec:

when I picked "Lossless Quality, Tremendously Large File Size" option in the dropdown menu for Recording Quality in the Simple Output Mode. Got a few questions to ask yo:

What does SLI/CrossFire Capture Mode (Slow) do?
What does Force Scaling do?
So I'm suppose to check the box for "Allow Transparency" so I'm capturing game fullscreen and not whole desktop full screen as well?
I'm guessing "Limit capture framerate" sets a predefined fps setting which I don't see there where I could set the fps unless this is for something else?
And what's hook rate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
Don't worry about the info I put up about bit depth. I tried to capture in 10-bit for extra efficiency when I edit something.
But, games run at 8bit, so 10bit is useless.
16bit can be used in Avisynth for the processing I want to do, and it's more efficient that way.

I digress.
There are a few games that run with 10 bit colour depth, I think Aliens Vs Predator was one of them or was it Aliens Colonels? One of the aliens or predator games from the top of my head. There are some others but I don't remember their names.... There was a wikipedia article or some other article I read that listed those games but I can't find it anymore that I got this info from that I remember reading off....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
After I'm done all the editing I want to do, I'll convert everything down to YUV 4:2:0, anyway. No point keeping full RGB to archive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
even through nothing was really moving the file need more then 20 mb sec with just 1080p60. so i will warn you yet again file sizes are going to be insane the codec will not make a major day night difference.
It will if you're gonna keep it as a reference master source for any other future projects(and not use a lossy transcoded piece as reference unless you don't care for quality or as a concept/draft) that uses the clip and want to preserve absolute quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
The custom FFMPEG for x264/rgb is already included in OBS.

Settings ->
Output ->
Video Encoder -> "libx264rgb (libx264)"

Video Encoder Settings (if any) -> (in the empty box, type in the following)
qp=0

You'll get x264 recording in lossless.
Ah I see it, you need to go into advance mode and not simple mode to see the options. Hmmm, I don't see that option on my screen, it's greyed out for me:


Hm, I'm guessing once you pick your lossless codecs(it looks like audio codec is also greyed out), the audio and video bitrate values would be ignored? And what's keyframe intervals? Should I change this or nah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
I didn't upload a recorded sample because the file was over 2GB.
For reference, the 1080p / 8-bit / RGB / MagicYUV (M8RG) running for 12 seconds is 2.2GB.
The screens I posted earlier were the results of my very short captures.

I did encodes in RGB/444/420.
They all look the same, really. YV12 was the smallest filesize.

Trimming the RGB clip to just 2 seconds gives me a filesize of 394MB.

2 seconds / 1080p / MagicYUV (modes: rgb/yuv444/yuv420)
Uploaded samples to MEGA:
RGB = 394 MB
444 = 334 MB
420 = 169 MB
Thanks, but I meant samples recorded using UT Video Codec to test with as you know they were working, and at the time, wasn't for me, so I needed a working source to eliminate the codec playback error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it a computer we rare using here make sure you flag it properly as bt709 even with SDR it's supposed to be sRGB which is pretty much bt 709 with a different "gamma" i didn't see once in my live.
What about bt 601 or bt 2020? Yeah, I read that sRGB is what everything on the computer is meant to be display as, which means you should suppose to have your monitor or TV screen set to sRGB mode for what the author intended it to look like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
The sample file plays blank with FFplay as well. So either something is wrong with the recording, or FFmpeg is not decoding it properly.

If you disable utvideo in the format settings of LAV Video decoder, then the utvideo VFW codec will be used instead if you have that installed.
Yeah, found out it wasn't configured to capture the game screen, which I had assume it would automatically do so as in the case with using FRAPS.

Last edited by egr; 16th July 2020 at 08:11. Reason: more questions
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