GUIDE: Stereo to 5-Channel Surround - Page 19

Umma · 2nd March 2004, 05:17

Thanks! That is exactly what it was. I just took it for granted that it was already linked.

Eye of Horus · 2nd March 2004, 14:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
It took more time than I thought

But......... the first CD is uploading right now to alt.binaries.sounds and alt.binaries.sounds.dts !

This is the website where you can vote for the in your opinion best sounded conversion of each song :

POLL

The methods used are (in random order) :

1. Surroundboy's
2. Ambisonics (EoH+Kempfand)
3. Synthedit-Gerzon-SIR (Kempfand)
4. CS II (commercial product)
5. SAD51 (Kpex+EoH+Kempfand)
6. WXYZ26 (Specise-8472)
7. Acid Pro (DrPaulNg)
8. VVMic (commercial product)
9. 3th Order (Specise-8472)
10. HRTF-XTC-Panorama-WXYZ (Kempfand)

I used the adviced settings in every methods, some will have a dedicated LFE channel and some don't.

Have fun !

kind regards,

Eye of Horus

Tantulus · 3rd March 2004, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by specise_8472
Have just uploaded to the server under Ambiophonics/3rd_order two new vst's.

I can't seem to find the 3rd order bidule on the server. Is it given another name or do I have to put it together from the VST's etc. I'd really like to give it a try.

Tantulus · 3rd March 2004, 16:23

I was up all last night nursing my PC back from near disaster and I guess I'm not paying attention. I've found the 3rd order in incoming.

Sorry.

Incidentally, 3rd_order.bidule seems to be temporarily inacessible.

Eye of Horus · 4th March 2004, 21:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
But......... the first CD is uploading right now to alt.binaries.sounds and alt.binaries.sounds.dts !

This is the website where you can vote for the in your opinion best sounded conversion of each song :

POLL

The methods used are (in random order) :

1. Surroundboy's
2. Ambisonics (EoH+Kempfand)
3. Synthedit-Gerzon-SIR (Kempfand)
4. CS II (commercial product)
5. SAD51 (Kpex+EoH+Kempfand)
6. WXYZ26 (Specise-8472)
7. Acid Pro (DrPaulNg)
8. VVMic (commercial product)
9. 3th Order (Specise-8472)
10. HRTF-XTC-Panorama-WXYZ (Kempfand)

I used the adviced settings in every methods, some will have a dedicated LFE channel and some don't.

Have fun !

kind regards,

Eye of Horus

For those of you who don't have access to newsservers : the 4 CD's are also on EDonkey !
Download this filesharing program at http://www.edonkey2000.com , install and do a search on "stereo2DTS".

Don't forget to vote !!!

kind regards,

EoH

Tantulus · 4th March 2004, 22:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
For those of you who don't have access to newsservers : the 4 CD's are also on EDonkey !
Download this filesharing program at http://www.edonkey2000.com , install and do a search on "stereo2DTS".

Don't forget to vote !!!

kind regards,

EoH

Thanks I tried the news groups but I wasn't able to open the files.

@ndy · 4th March 2004, 22:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Tantulus
I was up all last night nursing my PC back from near disaster and I guess I'm not paying attention. I've found the 3rd order in incoming.

Sorry.

Incidentally, 3rd_order.bidule seems to be temporarily inacessible.

Well I´m sorry, but my homenet is a little bit messy. I just tried some things out last days so it is possible that you just picked up the time the server was not reachable.
But now it should run again. If you still have problems reaching a file, just send me a PM or leave a note in the incomming folder of our ftp .

For those who mention that the server is too slow:
I´m looking for a better solution (webbased or anything like that and a faster connection) but keep in mind that this is a private interest/project.

To speek in specise`s words:
"Don`t blame me, I only work here"

CU
@ndy

Shayne · 9th March 2004, 02:58

e= Ambisonics second method -LFE(EOH, Kempfand)

Could you elaborate to what exactly this method entitles.

Thanks

Peace

kempfand · 9th March 2004, 09:14

- "Ambisonics second method" = Page one of this threat
- "-LFE" means no LFE (as in the guide)

The 'Ambisonics 1st method' (not used in the test) was the one using convolution with the Impulse Responses in CoolEdit & Aurora PlugIns.

Cheers,
Andreas

Shayne · 11th March 2004, 12:35

Thank you for your response.

Personally still favor +LFE we just need to find the perfect normalization process. Minus 5 to 6 db gain to the lfe inputs works on almost all but not all. Would be nice to isolate the lfe channel and normalize independently.

Peace

kempfand · 11th March 2004, 14:48

Normalisation should be fine if you use it for the pure Ambisonic method as outlined on page 1 of this threat.

Careful however with the newer methods around AmbioPhonics (specie's VST's, as well as all bidules using Stereo Dipoles). Normalising all channels for these will kill the sound image. You can instead use indiviual gain's for L-R, C-SL-SR, and eventually LFE. I mentioned this before for the SIR-convolution: AutoGain Off !

Andreas

Shayne · 12th March 2004, 00:38

Quote:

Originally posted by kempfand
Normalisation should be fine if you use it for the pure Ambisonic method as outlined on page 1 of this threat.

Andreas

What do you mean fine? I prefer +LFE and i have been using page 1. I find through the HMN_filter at cut freq of 80 hz and in/out at 1/2 that bidule will many times (if no gains introduced) output this lfe channel as the maximum volume wav therefore it becomes the governing channel in normalization. We need to isolate this channel and normalize it to 95% independently of the other 5 channel normalization process.

Peace

daphy · 17th March 2004, 15:40

Hi folks,

to get rid off the trouble with provider, traffic, performance we decided to move to another webspace with unlimited traffic and better performence (thx to Romania

)

One little issue is left: UPLOAD
We tried to make uploads via php-script possible but the provider 'wouldn´t like that'. So if you want to upload files, please contact @ndy or me (daphy) via PM or use the old FTP (which is still in use - but not all the time online)

The New Ambisonic Server can be found here!

CYA Daphy

@ndy · 22nd March 2004, 01:41

Hello guys,
the FTP- Server will be down until the 2nd april due to a practice in my new job. You still can download all the needful things from our new webhosting. Uploads are possible in the old manner from the beginning of april on (or send a PM to Daphy if it is urgent

)

Keep surrounding
Yours
@ndy

desertrat · 28th March 2004, 08:27

Hi folks,

I've got a couple things on my mind...

1. I've been looking both in the newsgroups and on e-donkey for the tests, couldn't find them on either one. Maybe I'm a bit too late for the e-donkey... don't know.... only got around to installing it this week.

2. Also I would like to know if there are guides someplace for these other methods that are used. I've done the Ambisonic a few times, the I,J & K methods and the CS II as well. Would like to try the others out as well. If someone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

3. I've been doing some thinking about the Ambisonic vs J method mixes. There are things I like about both of them - the Ambisonic is very good for ambient music or other music that doesn't required much of a center, it creates a very nice spacious soundfield which is missing from the other type of 5.1 mixes I have tried. On the other hand the J method is good for music that needs to have a center.. but misses that nice soundfield that the Ambisonic gives you. So I've been thinking about a way to combine the two types mixes and was able to do it quite easily. I came up with 2 different bidules yeserday that I am currently testing. So far the results are promising. I will u/l the bidules as soon as the server is back up, I am interested to have some other opinions as well.

cheers,
desertrat

desertrat · 28th March 2004, 12:11

The FTP server is up...

I have u/l my 2 bidules in the incoming dir

the file is desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo.rar

which contains

desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 2).bidule

desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 3).bidule

cheers,
desertrat

@ndy · 28th March 2004, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by desertrat
The FTP server is up...

I have u/l my 2 bidules in the incoming dir

the file is desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo.rar

which contains

desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 2).bidule

desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 3).bidule

cheers,
desertrat

I`ve just uploaded the file to our new server . You`ll find them in the folders "ambisonic" and in "ambiophonics".

Bye Bye
@ndy

desertrat · 28th March 2004, 14:02

Thanks @ndy

A couple of comments...

ver 2 seems to have more ambisonic content than ver 3

I'm not sure... but I suspect that the rear channels in ver 3 need to have the gain reduced a bit... still need to do some more testing and then think about how to go about it.

I used the standard ambisonic settings for the ambisonic side of the chain and the J setting for the other side.

cheers,
desertrat

Umma · 28th March 2004, 17:28

Thanks for the uploads. I will try them out ASAP!

I have found that I usually need to decrease the rear gains about 2 dB. It feels unbalanced if I don't do this on some stuff. I still can't put my finger on just what it is that requires the gain reduction, though, because I don't have to do it all the time. It might just be the size of my room and system, though...Music that has a lot of lead guitar licks usually require the reduction (but not always), whereas music with harmonies in the singing (CSN&Y, Peter, Paul and Mary) do just fine without the reduction. The reduction can usually be done within Bidule, too, but sometimes it sounds like it's getting normalized somewhere (BeSweet?). I'm on the run so much I can't properly analyze what's what and what's happening where.

desertrat · 28th March 2004, 17:43

I have found a couple of problems with ver 3 (ver 2 still seems to be ok).

The center channnel is too low in volume and the rear channels do need to have the gain reduced... looking into it, but don't know if it can be fixed yet....

cheers,
desertrat

3rd March 2004, 16:23	#364 \| Link
Tantulus Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 34	Now I'm embarresed I was up all last night nursing my PC back from near disaster and I guess I'm not paying attention. I've found the 3rd order in incoming. Sorry. Incidentally, 3rd_order.bidule seems to be temporarily inacessible. Last edited by Tantulus; 3rd March 2004 at 17:03.

17th March 2004, 15:40	#373 \| Link
daphy Miles Freak Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 652	New Server, more performance Hi folks, to get rid off the trouble with provider, traffic, performance we decided to move to another webspace with unlimited traffic and better performence (thx to Romania ) One little issue is left: UPLOAD We tried to make uploads via php-script possible but the provider 'wouldn´t like that'. So if you want to upload files, please contact @ndy or me (daphy) via PM or use the old FTP (which is still in use - but not all the time online) The New Ambisonic Server can be found here! CYA Daphy __________________ CYA Daphy Last edited by daphy; 17th March 2004 at 17:52.

22nd March 2004, 01:41	#374 \| Link
@ndy Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 23	FTP Server down for a while Hello guys, the FTP- Server will be down until the 2nd april due to a practice in my new job. You still can download all the needful things from our new webhosting. Uploads are possible in the old manner from the beginning of april on (or send a PM to Daphy if it is urgent ) Keep surrounding Yours @ndy __________________ If you`re not a part of the solution, you`re a part of the problem. a mirror of needfulthings.webhop.org and Last edited by @ndy; 22nd March 2004 at 01:46.

28th March 2004, 08:27	#375 \| Link
desertrat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 12	Hi folks, I've got a couple things on my mind... 1. I've been looking both in the newsgroups and on e-donkey for the tests, couldn't find them on either one. Maybe I'm a bit too late for the e-donkey... don't know.... only got around to installing it this week. 2. Also I would like to know if there are guides someplace for these other methods that are used. I've done the Ambisonic a few times, the I,J & K methods and the CS II as well. Would like to try the others out as well. If someone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. 3. I've been doing some thinking about the Ambisonic vs J method mixes. There are things I like about both of them - the Ambisonic is very good for ambient music or other music that doesn't required much of a center, it creates a very nice spacious soundfield which is missing from the other type of 5.1 mixes I have tried. On the other hand the J method is good for music that needs to have a center.. but misses that nice soundfield that the Ambisonic gives you. So I've been thinking about a way to combine the two types mixes and was able to do it quite easily. I came up with 2 different bidules yeserday that I am currently testing. So far the results are promising. I will u/l the bidules as soon as the server is back up, I am interested to have some other opinions as well. cheers, desertrat Last edited by desertrat; 30th March 2004 at 09:11.

28th March 2004, 14:02	#378 \| Link
desertrat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 12	Thanks @ndy A couple of comments... ver 2 seems to have more ambisonic content than ver 3 I'm not sure... but I suspect that the rear channels in ver 3 need to have the gain reduced a bit... still need to do some more testing and then think about how to go about it. I used the standard ambisonic settings for the ambisonic side of the chain and the J setting for the other side. cheers, desertrat Last edited by desertrat; 30th March 2004 at 05:55.

2nd March 2004, 05:17	#361 \| Link
Umma Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76	Thanks! That is exactly what it was. I just took it for granted that it was already linked.

9th March 2004, 02:58	#368 \| Link
Shayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: northern canada Posts: 215	e= Ambisonics second method -LFE(EOH, Kempfand) Could you elaborate to what exactly this method entitles. Thanks Peace

9th March 2004, 09:14	#369 \| Link
kempfand Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Switzerland Posts: 225	- "Ambisonics second method" = Page one of this threat - "-LFE" means no LFE (as in the guide) The 'Ambisonics 1st method' (not used in the test) was the one using convolution with the Impulse Responses in CoolEdit & Aurora PlugIns. Cheers, Andreas

11th March 2004, 12:35	#370 \| Link
Shayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: northern canada Posts: 215	Thank you for your response. Personally still favor +LFE we just need to find the perfect normalization process. Minus 5 to 6 db gain to the lfe inputs works on almost all but not all. Would be nice to isolate the lfe channel and normalize independently. Peace

11th March 2004, 14:48	#371 \| Link
kempfand Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Switzerland Posts: 225	Normalisation should be fine if you use it for the pure Ambisonic method as outlined on page 1 of this threat. Careful however with the newer methods around AmbioPhonics (specie's VST's, as well as all bidules using Stereo Dipoles). Normalising all channels for these will kill the sound image. You can instead use indiviual gain's for L-R, C-SL-SR, and eventually LFE. I mentioned this before for the SIR-convolution: AutoGain Off ! Andreas

28th March 2004, 12:11	#376 \| Link
desertrat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 12	The FTP server is up... I have u/l my 2 bidules in the incoming dir the file is desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo.rar which contains desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 2).bidule desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 3).bidule cheers, desertrat

28th March 2004, 17:28	#379 \| Link
Umma Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76	Thanks for the uploads. I will try them out ASAP! I have found that I usually need to decrease the rear gains about 2 dB. It feels unbalanced if I don't do this on some stuff. I still can't put my finger on just what it is that requires the gain reduction, though, because I don't have to do it all the time. It might just be the size of my room and system, though...Music that has a lot of lead guitar licks usually require the reduction (but not always), whereas music with harmonies in the singing (CSN&Y, Peter, Paul and Mary) do just fine without the reduction. The reduction can usually be done within Bidule, too, but sometimes it sounds like it's getting normalized somewhere (BeSweet?). I'm on the run so much I can't properly analyze what's what and what's happening where.

28th March 2004, 17:43	#380 \| Link
desertrat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 12	I have found a couple of problems with ver 3 (ver 2 still seems to be ok). The center channnel is too low in volume and the rear channels do need to have the gain reduced... looking into it, but don't know if it can be fixed yet.... cheers, desertrat