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Old 7th July 2004, 05:16   #41  |  Link
crahak
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I'm not dealing with interlaced video but 720p.
And I'm discarding video frames, not fields...

(no deinterlacing/ivtc of any kind involved)

The framerate is 59.940 but every single frame (usually) is different. If the source is a 23.976fps film movie upscaled and with framerate brought up, yes, it would be the case...

Anyways. I know the explanation sucked... You seem to be using other methods and I'm sure there's even more ways to it, but so far this works and looks great @ 24fps, xvid/unlimited profile & trellis...

The only problem I ever run across is stream erros which un-sync A/V which sucks. Oh well. No miracle cures for that.
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Old 8th July 2004, 00:55   #42  |  Link
FreQi
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I was having problems with a/v desync until I started doing a double fix on the trimmed & demuxed AC3. What I mean by that is after I use VDMod to demux the commercial free AC3, I use AC3Fix.exe to "fix" the cut points. After that I run the fixed AC3 through BeSliced which typically fixes another one or two points. I used to just use BeSliced, but it wasn't uncommon for the AC3 to drift a bit. AC3Fix doesn't suffer this but it seems to leave errors in the stream (at least according to BeSliced). I haven't had a problem with sync since.
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Old 11th September 2004, 16:25   #43  |  Link
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FDecimate

There's a newer FDecimate() filter which should help to get rid of duplicated frames in one pass.

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Old 13th September 2004, 16:01   #44  |  Link
FreQi
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Oh, good call Lobuz. I didn't know such a thing existed. I'll have to do a couple trials with FDecimate() to get a feel for performance.

On a side note, I've been working sorta half-assed on a tool that I think most people will find very useful for encoding HDTV sources to DVD compatible MPEG2's. I call it "theeo", "The Encode Orchestrator".

It's still in it's infancy, but here's what it does and bit of how it does it:

- Drag 'n Drop HD sources onto theeo
- Pick a template (defines your source type and destination settings)
- Uses a special build DGIndex to make .d2v and .ac3 (big thanks to neuron2 for that)
- Generates an AVISynth script and processing settings for VirtualDubMod
- Opens that AVS in VDMod and waits for you to cut commercials
- You save the processing settings and return to theeo
- theeo then uses your new processing settings to generate a final .avs that excludes the commercials, resizes and IVTC's the video and can be used for encoding

Those last couple steps were finished only last night, so there's a lot of tweaking and changes to be made to the way it works still. I plan on adding the stuff below before I make a release:

- demux the commercial free audio
- double fix the demux'd audio using AC3Fix and BeSplit
- chapter point management based on the Commercial Trim's
- generate a CCE .ecl

And there are a couple more features I want to implement down the road, such as...

- apply pulldown to the .mpv that comes out of CCE, making the .m2v
- multiplex the .m2v and the double fixed .ac3 to make an .mpg

I started working on this several months ago and managed to let it slip away from me, until last night. I figure the new season of TV is starting up (Las Vegas season 2 premieres tonight!) so I've regained some motivation to get this done. However, I am not too opposed to the idea of some collaborative effort on this. If you're interested in working on this with me, send me a PM. It's written in .Net (almost entirely VB.Net), which is something I am pretty new at, so I could even use someone that's just interested in reading over the code to make suggestions / tweaks for me.
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Old 16th September 2004, 17:21   #45  |  Link
Van the man
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when I try to load the .wmv file into dvd2avit3 the program just close down and gives me that microsoft error(if you wanna report the error to microsoft).
what am I doing wrong? doesnt the dvd2avi version handle .wmv files?
the .wmv file is from microsofts hdtv samples.

any answers would be great

thanks
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Old 17th September 2004, 05:56   #46  |  Link
FreQi
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WMV = Windows Media Video. It might be at HDTV resolutions, but it's not a Transport Stream (.ts) or another flavor of MPEG2, which is what DVD2AVI is used for.

Try VirtualDubMod or something
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Old 17th September 2004, 07:14   #47  |  Link
eb
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My way of procesing HDTV .ts streams:

demux in ProjectX to video + audios + subtitles,
from ProjectX all files are synchronised and corrected for dicontinuinities,audios are normalised to 98%

to get final product as .avi or .mkv i am processing video with DVD2AVIT3 {big thanks to trbarry for this}, downscaling to the size where my computer can play it without any problems, as common 720x408interlaced
muxing video+mp2 audios with VirtualDubMod to .avi /yes .avi with mp2 audio/
or if audios are already as AC3 and subtitles are srt or ssa then AVIMux_GUI is used to mux all this to .mkv , playback in VLCPlayer.

to get final as DVD, the resulted files from ProjectX are processed by Nero Express or by ReJig program

and that is all

eb

edited: here my very kind ask to author of AVIMUX_GUI
is it possible that .mp2 audios can be accepted and muxed to .avi like it is done in VirtualDubMod

Last edited by eb; 17th September 2004 at 07:22.
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Old 8th November 2004, 20:17   #48  |  Link
jrmann1999
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eb:

Since you're using projectX first, you might want to try dgindex instead of dvd2avit3. It's a bit more accurate and it's associated dll is faster for avisynth stuff....
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Old 28th November 2004, 07:43   #49  |  Link
rs008f
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VirtualdubMod 1.4/1.5 froze when I import the avs script. Below is my script. My MPEG2Dec3.dll is v1.0. The d2v made from dvd2avi 1.76 works fine however but the video and audio are out of synch. Video is shorter than the audio by 2 seconds.
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
Mpeg2Source("j:\abc.d2v")
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Old 13th December 2004, 19:38   #50  |  Link
nnigam
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So Many questions, so few answers. I have read posts here, at inmatrix.com and a few other places without getting all the answers. I think a new and updated guides are needed. I am ready to help if anyone has something in the works. What I would like to do is as below

1. Record HDTV, my dvd's, VHS, and camcorder movies to my hard drive using my MYHD card.
2. Cut/Edit Advertisements, re-sequence personal films etc.
3. Save as AVI that can play on any pc
4. Burn to DVD/CD that can play on any dvd player
4. Archive someplace so when I finally get a HD tv, I can watch them there as well.

Questions I have include
1. DVD's have 2/3 hours of video. HDTV2Mpeg2 and other utilities convert 1 hour of HDTV to 8 gigs so that only 30 minutes gets on a DVD. What gives.
2. To convert HDTV to DVD it seems that I have to convert HDTV to AVI and then convert AVI to DVD. Is'nt there a direct process.
3. Cutting commercials using virtualdubmod is very tedious for finding the commercials to cut. Would project X and MPEG2Scnitt help. 1 hour of hdtv still creates files multiple files for a single audio stream. How do you load both. to MPeg2Schnitt.
4. I am still unable to get proper synching in some 720p hd recordings. Just read about different audio rates for advertisement and program. How do you get a sample of the program to put at the beginning to get correct audio sampling.

I have no desire to re-invent the wheel. If someone has a manual in progress, I am ready to offer testing and other tasks.
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Old 13th December 2004, 23:00   #51  |  Link
jrmann1999
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No offense, but your first Questions screams that you don't know DVD or HD specs.

1. DVDs are encoded at a maximum resolution of 720x480p for NTSC(720x576p for PAL). They are also capped at a max bitrate right aroud 10mbit. HDTV on the other hand can range from 1280x720p to 1920x1080i resolution, and up to 19mbit bitrate. This is what accounts for the large size of the files.
2. Not true, using avisynth and either CCE or QuEnc you can encode HDTV directly to mpeg2 compliant dvd streams.
3. No, your pc is having to decode each frame you move into in order to display it on your screen, very intensive so it will not speed up. There's no real magic bullet on this one.
4. You quite simply do a 1-2s cut of an existing HD program that has the audio in the format you want. You then put that in your list as the first file loaded.
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Old 25th January 2005, 03:06   #52  |  Link
Karl Beem
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SD? on HDTV

Using the techniques described in this thread, I've processed the 720p broadcast of the Duke - NCS game on ESPNHD with good results. The .ts file was captured with CAPDVHS thru the 1394 from my Comcast(Motorola) 6208 DVR. The Duke - Miami game was also on ESPNHD, but was not HDTV - it had those ugly vertical bars. The actual game looked pretty good, not HDTV but better than analog, so I recorded it and am processing it.

1) Is this what they call SD programming?

2) With the bars cropped out, it is 932x720. Should I resize it to 720x480?

3) would you recommend that I use SelectEven()?
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Old 25th January 2005, 15:20   #53  |  Link
nnigam
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It depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to burn to dvd to watch on your dvd player, you need to have it at 720x480 resolution at 29.97 fps. If you want to create an avi, use whatever resolution you want to watch it at. I generally resize mine to 768x432 which works very well for me.

As for select even, this is only for reducing the frame rate on video whose frame rate has been increased from 29.97 to 59.94. If you open the file in virtualdub, and scroll through the videw and you see that each frame is duplicated, then you can use this. However, I use the decomb filter decimate(cycle=2) which I think is better to reduce 59.94 to 29.97fps. Better still is the fdecimate filter which will remove all duplicated frames reducing the size of the video considerably.

As for the SD programming, I think this means the regular analog broadcast. You are most likely getting HD broadcast. You are getting this if either you get an almost perfect picture, or no picture. If you can get weak signals, snow etc, then you have SD programming. HD can be either 3:4 or 9:16 aspect ratio, and black bars are used to fit one aspect ration video so that it is visible in a tv in the other aspect ratio.

Hope this helps. I do not consider myself an expert, but I have been playing around with this for the last month or so trying to get everything working perfectly.
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Old 26th January 2005, 00:51   #54  |  Link
FreQi
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@nnigam
Your answer for 2) and 3) are great, but your definition of SD is a bit off, at least as I understand it.

@Karl Beem
The term "SD" is loosely used, at least in here, to describe "Standard Definition" television, and like "HD", it refers to the broadcast format, not necessarily the material that is being broadcast. So by nature, SD is a 4:3 broadcast and a relatively low resolution (think 704 interlaced vertical lines by 480 columns). Then "HD" as you certainly know is "High Definition" and it comes in a variety of flavors (most notably 1080i and 720p), but they are all 16:9 wide-screen broadcasts. If it's not native 16:9 is it not HD.

There is another acronym that people like us use, "PD" which is sort of a hybrid of the terminology. It simply means "Pure Digital" and is by no means an industry standard term. To understand what "PD" refers to lends itself to understanding how a station broadcasts it's programming, and there are a couple different ways.

(note: I am pulling this all completely from memory based on stuff I've read and my own observations and "interviews" with my network affiliates, so if I am mistaken, please feel free to chime in)

- HDTV programming is sent out from the network headquarters (meaning ABC, NBC, CBS, etc) to some satellites in space and is then beamed back down to the earth on encrypted C-Band. The network affiliates (the local tv stations in your and my town) then pick up that satellite broadcast then re-broadcast it over their dTV equipment in real time with the network HQ's broadcast. They broadcast "dead air" or blackness at commercial breaks which the affiliates overlay with their pre-recorded tapes with commercials already inserted (see SDTV)

- SDTV programming is traditionally also sent out from the network HQ's to some satellites C-Band for the affiliates to pick up. However, this programming is -not- re-broadcasted in real time. Instead, the networks transmit the programming well before the scheduled airing of the show, sometimes more than 24 hours before. (google "Wildfeed" for more). This gives the affiliates opportunity to record the show, typically on VHS/Beta tapes, then insert their commercials (typically by re-dubbing the show to another tape) and then simply play the cassette when the shows time slot comes up. This process of recording and copying makes most SDTV look like garbage, but most people had crappy reception anyway, so who knew.

- PDTV comes in somewhere in the middle, and has several variants that can define it. Live broadcasts, like sports events and the local news are sent straight from the cameras through the cloud of equipment and over the antennas to your receiver. This lack of post processing tends to deliver a far superior picture and you can just see it. The main idea is the picture never flips to analog.

Digital Satellite TV is usually considered PDTV, HBO on Digital Cable/Satellite is PD, as are most of the subscription only channels like SciFi, Discovery and History channel.

Another example of PDTV is Scrubs on NBC. For whatever reason, they don't film that series in HD, but NBC still sends a live feed from their HQ to the affiliates who rebroadcast it just like the HD programming. The result is a very clear picture with sidebars.

Most SD programming of sporting events are actually cropped versions of the HD broadcast (remember, it's not PD because it was broadcasted in analog form, even on your "Digital Cable"). At the next football game, watch the same network on your SD and HD tv's. You'll see the same picture, only the HD one has more on the sides. This explains why on HD the score and time banners at the top are sort of scrunched in the middle. They just lop off the sides, down sample it and send it off as the 4:3 signal.

For some real specific descriptions, you might want to check out the online dictionary at AudioVideo101. They don't have anything on PDTV, but remember that's nothing official. Just a made up term to describe a phenomenon.
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Old 1st February 2005, 07:15   #55  |  Link
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I'm currently working on creating a DVD from 720p source. I ran the stream through DGIndex, giving me a .d2v project file. Then I wrote an avs script, and opened it in CCE and created a 720x480 23.97fps video file, which was then used to author a DVD. When I play the DVD the video isn't smooth like the source. I imagine this has something to do with going the 59.940fps source to the 23.97fps final video, and that it is a problem with my avs script. Is there something I'm missing, or doing in the wrong order?

Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll")
MPEG2Source("K:\HDTV\24S04E01\24S04E01.d2v")
SelectEven()
FDecimate()
LanczosResize(720,480)
Any help is appreciated.
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Old 1st February 2005, 07:19   #56  |  Link
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Take out the SelectEven().
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Old 1st February 2005, 07:33   #57  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by neuron2
Take out the SelectEven().
That was my first guess. Much thanks.
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Old 2nd February 2005, 16:32   #58  |  Link
FreQi
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If you're going to make an NTSC DVDr, you should also run pulldown.exe on the 23.976fps .mpv you made. It makes the video think it runs at 29.97fps through mpeg flag trickery. You'll also want to tell it to flag it as progressive scan and enable drop frame (keeps the clock in sync).

I recommend you use bbMpeg to mux the ac3 and the m2v into an mpg, if that's what you plan on ending up with
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Old 3rd February 2005, 01:34   #59  |  Link
venutolo
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Quote:
Originally posted by FreQi
If you're going to make an NTSC DVDr, you should also run pulldown.exe on the 23.976fps .mpv you made. It makes the video think it runs at 29.97fps through mpeg flag trickery. You'll also want to tell it to flag it as progressive scan and enable drop frame (keeps the clock in sync).
As far as I can tell, CCE takes care of pulldown. As for flagging it as progressive scan, does checking the box next to "Progressive Frame" take care of it, or is it something in authoring the DVD? Finally, I have no idea how to enable drop frame, so could you please point me in the right direction? I have had some experience working with CCE, but never with a 720p source, and this is the first time I'm authoring a DVD from scratch, so all of this is a learning experience. Thanks for the help.

Below are screenshots of my CCE template's settings.
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Old 3rd February 2005, 15:11   #60  |  Link
nnigam
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Quote:
Originally posted by FreQi
If you're going to make an NTSC DVDr, you should also run pulldown.exe on the 23.976fps .mpv you made. It makes the video think it runs at 29.97fps through mpeg flag trickery. You'll also want to tell it to flag it as progressive scan and enable drop frame (keeps the clock in sync).

I recommend you use bbMpeg to mux the ac3 and the m2v into an mpg, if that's what you plan on ending up with
----------------------------------------------------------

I just convert my 59.94 fps progressive to 29.97 by decimate(cycle=2), and leave the extra frame there. How is bbMpeg, I use Quenc, but will certainly give both pulldown and bbmpeg a try.

Would the avisynth cmd changefps be similar to pulldown since it just slows the video down.
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