WebM Exciting New Video Standard with VP8, Vorbis, Matroska - Page 24

Rumbah · 15th March 2012, 21:37

But aren't the .flv ones H263, only the mp4s are H264?

Nintendo Maniac 64 · 15th March 2012, 21:40

No, only 240p uses h.263. All other resolutions use h.264, but only the HD resolutions use 'High' profile, while the 360p and 480p FLV formats use 'Main'. (the 360p MP4 format uses 'Baseline')

Or at least, that's what it was when I last checked around 6 months ago. (about the same time they added 480p WebM)

poisondeathray · 15th March 2012, 21:49

Both 480p versions look bad overall.

Some frames are better in the h.264 version, some are worse

A single frame doesn't tell the whole story. You could cherrypick and chose if you had an agenda. eg. You might compare a I frame vs. a P frame for example

Nintendo Maniac 64 · 15th March 2012, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

Both 480p versions look bad overall.

F-Zero GX is known to be notoriously hard for video compression due to its extremely high-speed gameplay without using any "softening" post-process effects like bloom lighting and motion blur that many modern games use. This in turn is the exact reason why I like to use it for video quality and performance tests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

A single frame doesn't tell the whole story. You could cherrypick and chose if you had an agenda. eg. You might compare a I frame vs. a P frame for example

That's why I didn't do a single frame comparison originally. However, someone ended up doing one anyway, but with the wrong resolution in question. Therefore I had no choice but to follow up...

poisondeathray · 15th March 2012, 22:12

Well h.264 has the potential to do a better job.

If this is correct, webm seems gets preferential audio treatment with higher bitrate (vorbis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs

Maybe it's youtube/google's attempt at sabotage , and increasing the relevance of webm?

Nintendo Maniac 64 · 15th March 2012, 22:22

But my internet bandwidth doesn't have the potential to stream 720p. >_>

As for the audio, at 480p, both audio codecs have the same bitrate, and yet SUPPOSEDLY WebM still had better audio quality.

poisondeathray · 15th March 2012, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64

As for the audio, at 480p, both audio codecs have the same bitrate, and yet SUPPOSEDLY WebM still had better audio quality.

Hmmm, that's not what mediainfo shows

480p h.264

Code:

Audio
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 10
Duration                         : 4mn 19s
Bit rate                         : 96.7 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 2.99 MiB (6%)

480p webm

Code:

udio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : Vorbis
Format settings, Floor           : 1
Codec ID                         : A_VORBIS
Duration                         : 4mn 19s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 3.95 MiB (10%)
Language                         : English

And in case mediainfo is incorrect, demuxed audio filesize

AAC 3.03MB
vorbis 4.00MB

Nintendo Maniac 64 · 15th March 2012, 22:37

Using this as my example video (uploaded only 2 weeks ago):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_s-wfsxk

MediaInfo says 129kbps for the 480p FLV and 128kbps for the 480p WebM.

(I have no idea how you did exported that info, so you'll just have to download the videos and see yourself)

EDIT: The FLV's audio by itself in an MKA is 2.25MB while the WebM's is 2.26MB.

poisondeathray · 15th March 2012, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64

Using this as my example video (uploaded only 2 weeks ago):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_s-wfsxk

MediaInfo says 129kbps for the 480p FLV and 128kbps for the 480p WebM.

(I have no idea how you did exported that info, so you'll just have to download the videos and see yourself)

Audio bitrate looks to be about the same in this example, but big discrepancy in video bitrate for the 480p versions

WebM 1630kbps
h.264 1182kbps

I don't know what you mean by "export that info", did you mean mediainfo report? use view=>text then copy & paste

Nintendo Maniac 64 · 15th March 2012, 22:49

Yes, the video bitrate IS a lot higher for WebM. It would seem they've changed a setting between when that first video I linked to was uploaded, because it has the WebM verson have a SMALLER filesize than the FLV.

But about the audio, from what I've read on the internets, even with the same bitrate the WebM's audio is supposedly higher quality due to the AAC encoder YouTube uses or something.

15th March 2012, 21:40	#462 \| Link
Nintendo Maniac 64 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 447	No, only 240p uses h.263. All other resolutions use h.264, but only the HD resolutions use 'High' profile, while the 360p and 480p FLV formats use 'Main'. (the 360p MP4 format uses 'Baseline') Or at least, that's what it was when I last checked around 6 months ago. (about the same time they added 480p WebM) Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 15th March 2012 at 21:47.

15th March 2012, 22:12	#465 \| Link
poisondeathray Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,285	Well h.264 has the potential to do a better job. If this is correct, webm seems gets preferential audio treatment with higher bitrate (vorbis) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs Maybe it's youtube/google's attempt at sabotage , and increasing the relevance of webm? Last edited by poisondeathray; 15th March 2012 at 22:15.

15th March 2012, 22:37	#468 \| Link
Nintendo Maniac 64 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 447	Using this as my example video (uploaded only 2 weeks ago): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_s-wfsxk MediaInfo says 129kbps for the 480p FLV and 128kbps for the 480p WebM. (I have no idea how you did exported that info, so you'll just have to download the videos and see yourself) EDIT: The FLV's audio by itself in an MKA is 2.25MB while the WebM's is 2.26MB. Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 15th March 2012 at 22:46.

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15th March 2012, 21:37	#461 \| Link
Rumbah Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 478	But aren't the .flv ones H263, only the mp4s are H264?

15th March 2012, 21:49	#463 \| Link
poisondeathray Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,285	Both 480p versions look bad overall. Some frames are better in the h.264 version, some are worse A single frame doesn't tell the whole story. You could cherrypick and chose if you had an agenda. eg. You might compare a I frame vs. a P frame for example

15th March 2012, 22:22	#466 \| Link
Nintendo Maniac 64 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 447	But my internet bandwidth doesn't have the potential to stream 720p. >_> As for the audio, at 480p, both audio codecs have the same bitrate, and yet SUPPOSEDLY WebM still had better audio quality.

15th March 2012, 22:49	#470 \| Link
Nintendo Maniac 64 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 447	Yes, the video bitrate IS a lot higher for WebM. It would seem they've changed a setting between when that first video I linked to was uploaded, because it has the WebM verson have a SMALLER filesize than the FLV. But about the audio, from what I've read on the internets, even with the same bitrate the WebM's audio is supposedly higher quality due to the AAC encoder YouTube uses or something.