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#1181 | Link | |
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Quote:
(I guess "not to say" isn't quite fit in here, because Arc Battlemage was release after Lunar Lake... but you get the point, right? (am I getting the timeline correct?)) Last edited by Z2697; 1st April 2025 at 14:20. |
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#1182 | Link | |
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Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: South Africa
Posts: 318
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#1183 | Link | |
Lost my old account :(
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 367
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#1184 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: South Africa
Posts: 318
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#1185 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: South Africa
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#1186 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 423
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The streaming industry shifted to AV1 as its post-HEVC standard and that's it. The broadcast industry is stuck in HEVC for the foreseeable future (and some of it is still trying to get rid of MPEG2) so they aren't relevant to the VVC discussion, save for a few countries. |
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#1187 | Link | |
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Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,992
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Now that is becoming a general standard that could be applied to any codec, so it's not AV1 specific (it's not in-loop, just metadata driven post processing). Hopefully AV2 will get universally compatible decoders so it could be an on-by-default option there at least. AV1's FGS + VVC, or MPEG FGS + VVC are both technically viable too, with some good demos already done. |
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#1188 | Link | ||
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Location: Portland, OR
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In premium content, it exists from both Netflix and Prime Video, given the installed base of decoders, there's no way that most premium HDR content isn't still delivered in HDR. We're still having mid-tier mobile devices and some TVs being launched without AV1 support. Once they're pretty much universal, we'll have AV1 mostly available in mobile within four years and in living room within ten years. But it's still a while before it could be even half of premium content. Still, at a big enough scale, saving 30% of bandwidth costs on 20% of sessions can be more than enough savings to justify the effort. Of course, you'll get increased encoding and storage costs for the time being, as you can't stop using HEVC or even H.264 within the next few years, so AV1 would be an additional thing, not a replacement. |
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#1189 | Link | |
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Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: South Africa
Posts: 318
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Indeed, grain or random noise is the main challenge to video codecs, and proper film-grain synthesis could address this. Being an implementation problem, it will improve as time goes by. |
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#1190 | Link | ||
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Where very high frame rates shine is sports. 120 is better for lots of people than 60, even. Quote:
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#1191 | Link | |
Artem S. Tashkinov
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 415
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The State of the Video Codec Market 2025
VVC is still DOA. Quote:
Maybe 50 thousand or so Lunar Lake owners? Nope, that won't work for PC/laptop users either. Looks like VVC will not be adopted in anything consumer any time soon or maybe ever. Oh, what about the [warez] scene? Nothing. Completely ignored because the encoder is crazy slow. Last edited by birdie; 11th April 2025 at 01:02. |
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#1192 | Link |
Derek Prestegard IRL
![]() Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,001
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I was fairly impressed with Spin Digital's live 9 (?) Mbps 4kp60 HDR VVC encode at NAB. It resoundingly outperformed NVENC AV1 and x265 at equal speed, despite using very fast settings and no tiles.
I didn't get too deep into the weeds about exactly how much CPU it was using, maybe 16 cores or something?
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#1193 | Link |
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Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: South Africa
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There was a good example of "Last Night in Soho," one of the first VVC encodes. A high-quality QP20 specimen, it took the group about a week using vvenc medium; its mild loss of grain only evident if one compares against the BluRay. As a bonus, it sported USAC audio.
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#1194 | Link | |
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Join Date: Aug 2024
Posts: 487
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#1195 | Link |
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 7,207
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@ birdie + GeoffreyA:
As much as I remember the last 2-3 decades, moviez pirates did not avoid encoding efforts to gain shareability while the average internet bandwidth was limited... having Gbps connections and TByte media today moves the goalpost. Burning a CD/DVD is out since many "Smart" TV sets have USB3 ports and rather compatible decoders for many established media formats. |
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#1196 | Link | |
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Join Date: Jun 2024
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#1197 | Link |
Moderator
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I imagine it was using 64+ cores. Demos like this are normally using the fastest Xeon or EPYC processor they can find that'll run the demo. IIRC, MultiCoreWare were using at least 36 cores when they demoed live 4K HEVC software encoding ~7 years ago. Basically they use as many cores as they can scale to before the lower per-core performance winds up being a net negative. Xeon goes up to a max of 86 performance cores now.
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