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16th July 2021, 15:22 | #24521 | Link | |
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With TS files those texts are shown in track listing and subtitle selection works correctly. |
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16th July 2021, 19:36 | #24522 | Link |
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mkvmerge added new track header flags for things like hearing/visual impaired, commentary, etc. That was a fairly recent addition (version 54.0, Feb 21). I imagine LAV splitter isn't aware of them yet. IIRC it used to look for "SDH" in the Title tag of a Matroska sub track to determine that it was hearing impaired.
Last edited by glorp; 16th July 2021 at 19:40. |
17th July 2021, 02:08 | #24523 | Link | ||
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Interestingly playing the TS file in both MPC-HC 1.8.5 (fairly old) with internal LAV filters 0.74.0, and in MPC-BE with external LAV filters 0.75.1, LAV splitter appears to have picked up the first listed English subtitle track (SDH in the matroska container), but displays subtitles from the normal track. This is consistent with your contention that subtitle selection is correct in TS files. However, manually selecting the English subtitle from further down the list (the normal track in the matroska container) in the LAV splitter subtitle track selection still delivers the normal English subtitles! It's as if the SDH subtitle has disappeared. The SDH track is still there, as it can be selected under the Play|Subtitle Track selection in the player. All tests were conducted with eng|n in the LAV Splitter subtitle field. Changing that to eng|h or eng:eng|h does not force the SDH subtitles, throwing some doubt on the contention that subtitle selection is correct in TS files. Quote:
This is consistent with your contention that LAV filters may not have caught up with recent changes to flags in the matroska container, but it also appears that LAV splitter is not recognising "SDH" in the name tag of a Matroska sub track. This behaviour is not new. I raised a similar issue about three years ago in the MPC-BE forum. |
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17th July 2021, 12:12 | #24524 | Link |
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LAV does not even attempt to determine the type of a track based on its name - such detection is honestly rather unreliable in the best of cases, so I also have no plans to do that. So that not working is perfectly expected.
Matroska SDH flags or such are not read yet, but i'll put it on the list to fix.
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18th July 2021, 13:05 | #24525 | Link | |
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Regards |
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19th July 2021, 23:45 | #24526 | Link |
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Part of it is the codec, and part of it is the player. If the audio codec is E-AC3 and if I am using MPC-HC I have to turn on Normalise and 400% max amplication with regain volume checked in the player's options. What you found in the Windows properties is the same basic idea. If using exclusive mode, you will have to use the player's options because the Windows setting is for directsound output.
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1st August 2021, 04:30 | #24528 | Link | |
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I have the current versions of both MPC-BE and MPC-HC installed and currently both of them have matching LAV filter versions for the purpose of this exercise. One key difference with the audio renderer however is that MPC-BE uses its own mpc audio renderer that is not producing identical sound output to the internal audio renderer in MPC-HC (different CLSIDs) even though both of them are set to exclusive WASAPI mode--as opposed to shared mode. I felt that the output from MPC-HC was noticeably quieter than MPC-BE and I didn't understand why, since one would assume with WASAPI it would be identical and both were set to 100% volume. Like Ger, I'm also using a Realtek device and I was working with a 6-channel E-AC3 video that is being downmixed to 2-channel stereo over an analog 3.5mm connection. One challenge I have, is that I don't have good hearing but I do feel given between two samples to choose from that I can identify which one is has more clarity or is louder than the other. My current understanding of the 3 main audio outputs Windows uses; DirectSound, WaveOut and WASAPI is that directsound which is the primary sound system will mix & resample anything and everything that it processes. Waveout is also part of the OS but will not be mixed/resampled by Windows afaik, and WASAPI is supposed to be completely untouched by the OS. In MPC-HC eac3 downmixed voices will be loudest and have decent tonality (more body?) when using Default WaveOut Device. There is still a slight (I feel) listening difference between it and MPC-BE's audio renderer set for WASAPI exclusive mode but I am not able to quantify what it is but volume wise they are relatively comparable. So, if you're using MPC-HC downmixing to stereo analog, my opinion is that waveout is best. MPC-BE does not have a waveout renderer. It's either use the wasapi one or directsound. Probably these results are completely different over HDMI or something else. For most people likely none of this matters because they're probably using digital connections or receivers, but if someone reading this is using a realtek chip analog 2.1 system I'd love to know if you agree or disagree with my listening observations here. UPDATE: After clsid wrote below in post #24575 I tried shared mode on the internal audio renderer (wasapi) and everything was loud and clear for my analog output. Comparable to directsound. Directsound is also a shared wasapi method in Windows. I am not using waveout (which is a very old output method) and am set for wasapi shared mode in the internal audio renderer. Last edited by Sunspark; 2nd August 2021 at 17:22. |
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1st August 2021, 13:54 | #24531 | Link |
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Some people seem to think that exclusive mode magically improves audio quality. It doesn't. It restricts audio output to one application at a time. Which one might consider to actually be a bad thing.
Even when using WASAPI, there can still be resampling taking place in the driver. Even with DirectSound, resampling is of high enough quality that I doubt you can hear any difference compared to no resampling. The main difference between WaveOut and DirectSound is how the volume setting in the player behaves. This might be the reason for the difference that you are noticing. With WaveOut 100% volume in player equals the main output volume level in Windows. With DirectSound 100% in player corresponds to the application volume level (which can be lower than main level). Click on the volume icon in the system tray to see application volume level. If you want higher volume for voices when downmixing, then that can be achieved by changing the center mix level to 1.0 in LAV audio decoder mixing settings.
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2nd August 2021, 13:20 | #24532 | Link | ||
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From my own personal experience, there is no guarantee even when using exclusive mode that the audio driver won't touch the sound before getting it to the output. For example, my Creative X-Fi will gladly accept multichannel input in exclusive mode even though it only has stereo outputs, and downmix it in the driver. Exclusive mode only guarantees the sound won't be touched my Windows' mixer, after that what happens is up to the audio driver. Quote:
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2nd August 2021, 17:04 | #24533 | Link |
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The only issue with having LAV decode audio is that for things like ATMOS you lose the extension metadata. Apple gets around this limitation by decoding to PCM and then encoding that and the ATMOS metadata into a MAT 2.0 signal that's sent to the audio device. Man I wish we could do that on the PC.
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2nd August 2021, 17:28 | #24534 | Link |
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UPDATE: I won't keep writing about this because at this point it's about the renderer and not the decoder which the LAV filters are, I just wanted to say one last thing to close this off in case it helps someone else. After clsid wrote in post #24575 above, I then tried shared mode on the internal audio renderer (wasapi) and everything rendered loud and clear on my analog output. Comparable to directsound. Directsound is also a shared wasapi method in Windows. I am not using waveout (which is a very old output method) and am now happy with wasapi shared mode in the internal audio renderer.
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2nd August 2021, 17:35 | #24535 | Link |
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LAV has downmixing options even though it's a decoder not a renderer, so I don't think it's off-topic. The issue here was the downmixing and there are many steps in the chain where it can be done.
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2nd August 2021, 18:45 | #24536 | Link |
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Good point to make because the implementation thereof is another variable affecting output (the # value used, etc). I am doing the downmixing in LAV. So there are actually 3 possible places on the chain for the downmixing to happen; in LAV, the MPC-BE audio renderer which has an optional mixer (MPC-HC does not have a visible one, just an option to ignore the system mixer which I have checked), and the Windows sound system mixer itself. My hearing is not capable to test these 3 at all beyond general perceptual differences such as loudness and maybe clarity.
Strange that shared mode made such a difference compared to exclusive mode on my system. I am uncertain whether this is because of the audio driver implementation by Realtek or if Windows itself does additional processing even though ignore system mixer is checked. The output from LAV is 32 bit float, but in Windows my system is configured as 24 bit/48000. I have no idea if Windows "knows" that the extra 8 bits are padding or if it literally resamples it down to 24. |
2nd August 2021, 21:31 | #24537 | Link |
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MPC-HC's renderer does automatic downmixing if you check exclusive mode. It then says "Processors: Matrix" in the filter info dialog.
The Windows mixer internally works in 32-bit float too, so there's no conversion from the output of LAV. It then converts to the configured output format for shared mode, but 32 float to 24 int audio is a lossless conversion.
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4th August 2021, 06:41 | #24538 | Link |
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float to int and such is a bit is a bit messy in the audio world.
with int the negative audio can be "louder" with float the positive can be louder. which makes it a bit messy in conversation with clipping and such. 32 bit float or 24 bit int are good enough that is doesn't matter but lossless no. |
4th August 2021, 09:11 | #24539 | Link |
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Assuming normalized values (fixed mantissa), it can be equivalent, just omit the mantissa... but there is no guarantee. And floating point samples may exceed the normal range.
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decoders, directshow, filters, splitter |
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