Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > MPEG-4 AVC / H.264

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th March 2021, 10:43   #21  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Resurrection of a very old thread: done.

There is something I need your help with x264 encoding.

Perhaps I am now a bit spoiled with x265 HBD support and I tried to have the same thing in x264.

I tried to use the x264 (8 bit) --input-depth 16 parameter (unfortunately no --dither found) but what I got is

avs [info]: AviSynth+ 3.7.0 (r3382, 3.7, x86_64)
avs [info]: avisynth 16bit hack enabled
avs [info]: 960x800 0:0 @ 24/1 fps (cfr)


instead of dealing with the original 1080p source.

Is there a way to let x264 properly manage a HDB source?
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; 9th March 2021 at 10:49.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2021, 11:10   #22  |  Link
stax76
Registered User
 
stax76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: On thin ice
Posts: 6,837
I don't know why you get this avisynth 16bit hack enabled, I'm not getting it:

Code:
Width     : 1280
Height    : 720
Frames    : 638
Time      : 00:21.561
Framerate : 29.590176 (200000/6759)
Format    : YUV420P16

x264 --crf 22 --synth-lib D:\AviSynth.dll --output aaa.h264 aaa.avs

avs  [info]: using external Avisynth library from: "D:\AviSynth.dll"
avs  [info]: AviSynth+ 3.7.0 (r3382, 3.7, x86_64)
avs  [info]: 1280x720 0:0 @ 200000/6759 fps (cfr)
avs  [info]: color matrix: bt709
x264 [info]: AVC Encoder x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX FMA3 BMI2 AVX2
x264 [info]: profile: High 10, level: 3.1, subsampling: 4:2:0, bit-depth: 10-bit
Please note that --input-depth can only be used for raw input, the avs reader is not raw, only pipe or .yuv file can be raw.

Last edited by stax76; 9th March 2021 at 11:18.
stax76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2021, 12:00   #23  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
I don't know why you get this avisynth 16bit hack enabled, I'm not getting it
I am feeding StaxRip with the following .avs

SetMemoryMax()
SetFilterMTMode("DEFAULT_MT_MODE", 2)
LoadPlugin("D:\eseguibili\media\DGDecNV\DGDecodeNV.dll")
DGSource("F:\In\1_53 gentlemen, The\gentlemen.dgi",ct=140,cb=140,cl=0,cr=0)
SMDegrain (tr=4, thSAD=400, refinemotion=false, n16_out=true, mode=0, contrasharp=false, PreFilter=4, truemotion=true, plane=4, chroma=true)
Prefetch(6)


AND I am using x264 8 bit. not 10 bit one. Plus source is 1080p, don't know if relevant.

VersionString: AviSynth+ 3.7.0 (r3382, 3.7, x86_64)
VersionNumber: 2.60
File / Product version: 3.7.0.0 / 3.7.0.0
Interface Version: 8
Multi-threading support: Yes
Avisynth.dll location: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\avisynth.dll
Avisynth.dll time stamp: 2021-01-11, 15:47:06 (UTC)
PluginDir2_5 (HKLM, x64): D:\Programmi\Media\AviSynth+\plugins64
PluginDir+ (HKLM, x64): D:\Programmi\Media\AviSynth+\plugins64+

Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
Please note that --input-depth can only be used for raw input, the avs reader is not raw, only pipe or .yuv file can be raw.
So how should I feed a 16 bit source?
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; 9th March 2021 at 12:04.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2021, 10:04   #24  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Nobody?
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2021, 11:52   #25  |  Link
stax76
Registered User
 
stax76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: On thin ice
Posts: 6,837
Think about it, you are asking about a x264 problem, and then you are not even posting the full x264 output, so we don't even know what type of x264 build you use, I think you should try a Patman or DJATOM build.
stax76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2021, 19:24   #26  |  Link
MasterNobody
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 552
I am pretty match sure that he has problems exactly because he use unofficial build of x264. Official x264 doesn't have "avisynth 16bit hack enabled" patch which looks like to cause problems for him.
MasterNobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 08:25   #27  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
I think you should try a Patman or DJATOM build.
I was using DJATOM one. Will do another try with the one now included with StaxRip.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 09:15   #28  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Ok, just ripped a BD to do another try. Same issue.

Original video:

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1 h 55 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Maximum bit rate : 35.9 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709


AVS script:

SetMemoryMax()
SetFilterMTMode("DEFAULT_MT_MODE", 2)
LoadPlugin("D:\eseguibili\media\DGDecNV\DGDecodeNV.dll")
DGSource("F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera.dgi",ct=132,cb=132,cl=0,cr=0)
CompTest24(1)
SMDegrain (tr=4, thSAD=400, refinemotion=false, n16_out=true, mode=0, contrasharp=false, PreFilter=4, truemotion=true, plane=4, chroma=true)
Prefetch(6)


Plain vanilla StaxRip log:

------------------------- System Environment -------------------------

StaxRip : 2.1.8.5
Windows : Windows 10 Enterprise 2009
Language : Italian (Italy)
CPU : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
GPU : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB, Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000
Resolution : 1920 x 1080
DPI : 96
Code Page : 1252

----------------------- Media Info Source File -----------------------

F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.avs

General
Complete name : F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.avs
File size : 979 Bytes

---------------------------- Configuration ----------------------------

Template : x264
Video Encoder Profile : x264
Container/Muxer Profile : MKV (mkvmerge)

--------------------------- AviSynth Script ---------------------------

Import("F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.avs")

------------------------- Source Script Info -------------------------

Width : 1920
Height : 816
Frames : 3327
Time : 02:18.764
Framerate : 23.976023 (24000/1001)
Format : YUV420P16

------------------------- Target Script Info -------------------------

Width : 1920
Height : 816
Frames : 3327
Time : 02:18.764
Framerate : 23.976023 (24000/1001)
Format : YUV420P16

--------------------------- Video encoding ---------------------------

x264 0.161.3048+25-gcc10.2.0 Patman Mod

D:\Eseguibili\Media\StaxRip\Apps\Encoders\x264\x264.exe --crf 20 --preset slow --aq-mode 2 --colorprim bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --transfer bt709 --input-depth 16 --opencl --output "F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4_out.h264" "F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4.avs"

avs [info]: AviSynth+ 3.7.0 (r3382, 3.7, x86_64)
avs [info]: avisynth 16bit hack enabled
avs [info]: 960x816 0:0 @ 24000/1001 fps (cfr)

avs [info]: color matrix: bt709
x264 [info]: AVC Encoder x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX
x264 [info]: OpenCL acceleration enabled with NVIDIA Corporation NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
x264 [info]: Compiling OpenCL kernels...
x264 [info]: profile: High, level: 3.1, subsampling: 4:2:0, bit-depth: 8-bit
x264 [info]: opencl=1 cabac=1 ref=5 deblock=1:0:0 analyse=0x3:0x113 me=hex subme=8 psy=1 psy_rd=1.00:0.00 mixed_ref=1 me_range=16 chroma_me=1 trellis=2 8x8dct=1 cqm=0 deadzone=21,11 fast_pskip=1 chroma_qp_offset=-2 threads=12 lookahead_threads=2 sliced_threads=0 nr=0 decimate=1 interlaced=0 bluray_compat=0 constrained_intra=0 bframes=3 b_pyramid=2 b_adapt=1 b_bias=0 direct=3 weightb=1 open_gop=0 weightp=2 keyint=250 keyint_min=23 scenecut=40 intra_refresh=0 rc_lookahead=50 rc=crf mbtree=1 crf=20.0 qcomp=0.60 qpmin=0 qpmax=69 qpstep=4 ip_ratio=1.40 aq=2:1.00
x264 [info]: frame I:142 Avg QP:16.55 size: 78167
x264 [info]: frame P:870 Avg QP:20.05 size: 13960
x264 [info]: frame B:2315 Avg QP:22.14 size: 3353
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.6% 1.1% 11.5% 81.9%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 11.2% 80.0% 8.9%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 1.2% 4.9% 0.4% P16..4: 41.9% 14.5% 8.9% 0.0% 0.0% skip:28.1%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.0% 0.3% 0.0% B16..8: 41.8% 3.0% 0.5% direct: 1.3% skip:52.9% L0:39.9% L1:55.2% BI: 4.9%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:78.9% inter:71.5%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:99.3% temporal:0.7%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 85.0% 67.7% 40.6% inter: 9.0% 13.2% 0.2%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 39% 18% 8% 34%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 15% 9% 6% 9% 13% 12% 12% 11% 12%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 10% 6% 3% 13% 17% 15% 13% 11% 12%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 29% 33% 26% 12%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:3.0% UV:2.4%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 66.1% 13.8% 14.2% 3.2% 2.7% 0.0% 0.0%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 89.5% 8.7% 1.6% 0.3%
x264 [info]: ref B L1: 95.7% 4.3%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1787.67
encoded 3327 frames, 14.63 fps, 1787.67 kb/s, duration 0:03:47.42

Start: 09:08:00
End: 09:11:51
Duration: 00:03:50

General
Complete name : F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4_out.h264
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
File size : 29.6 MiB
Writing library : x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format, CABAC : Yes
Format, Reference frames : 5 frames
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 816 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.176
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Writing library : x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

---------------------------- Muxing to MKV ----------------------------

mkvmerge 55

D:\Eseguibili\Media\StaxRip\Apps\Support\MKVToolNix\mkvmerge.exe -o "F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.mkv" "F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4_out.h264" --ui-language en

mkvmerge v55.0.0 ('Waiting For Space') 64-bit
'F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4_out.h264': Using the demultiplexer for the format 'AVC/H.264'.
'F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4_temp\pantera_4_out.h264' track 0: Using the output module for the format 'AVC/H.264 (unframed)'.
The file 'F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.mkv' has been opened for writing.
The cue entries (the index) are being written...
Multiplexing took 0 seconds.

Start: 09:11:51
End: 09:11:52
Duration: 00:00:00

General
Complete name : F:\In\1_55 Pantera Rosa, La\pantera_4.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 29.6 MiB
Duration : 2 min 18 s
Overall bit rate : 1 790 kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-15 08:11:52
Writing application : mkvmerge v55.0.0 ('Waiting For Space') 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.4.2 + libmatroska v1.6.4

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format, CABAC : Yes
Format, Reference frames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2 min 18 s
Bit rate : 1 788 kb/s
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 816 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.176
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.095
Stream size : 29.6 MiB (100%)
Writing library : x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

---------------------------- Job Complete ----------------------------

Start: 09:07:59
End: 09:11:52
Duration: 00:03:52


Output video:

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2 min 18 s
Bit rate : 1 788 kb/s
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 816 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.176
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.095
Stream size : 29.6 MiB (100%)
Writing library : x264 core 161 r3048+25 be33c5d [Mod by Patman]
Encoding settings : opencl=1 / cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; 15th March 2021 at 09:21.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 12:37   #29  |  Link
qyot27
...?
 
qyot27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,420
As the others said before, don't use --input-depth. At all. Period. x264 does not require special arguments to understand AviSynth+'s high bit depth formats.

The 16bit hack was a way of getting around the fact that Interleaved16 format is twice the width of the intended output, and using --input-depth was the method by which you could override the avs module's treatment of a script as 8bit (in the days before AviSynth+ supported high bit depth and x264 could accept those formats - both of which were possible by September 2016), which made the module perform essentially the same function as ConvertFromDoubleWidth() and pass the content over to the encoder as 16bit and the correct width instead of 8bit and double width.

Last edited by qyot27; 15th March 2021 at 12:39.
qyot27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 13:39   #30  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by qyot27 View Post
As the others said before, don't use --input-depth. At all. Period. x264 does not require special arguments to understand AviSynth+'s high bit depth formats.
Huh, ok. I thought it was the same switch as with x265, as I saw that --input-depth could get from 8 to 16 as parameter.
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; 15th March 2021 at 13:41.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 18:44   #31  |  Link
jpsdr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: France
Posts: 2,316
Hum...
https://github.com/jpsdr/x264/commit...f7892b6e208806
According what avs is now, do you think it should be removed in the future builds ?
And just keep
Code:
info->csp |= X264_CSP_HIGH_DEPTH;
__________________
My github.
jpsdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 21:11   #32  |  Link
MasterNobody
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
Hum...
https://github.com/jpsdr/x264/commit...f7892b6e208806
According what avs is now, do you think it should be removed in the future builds ?
And just keep
Code:
info->csp |= X264_CSP_HIGH_DEPTH;
Remove this patch at all or fix condition to:
Code:
if( opt->bit_depth > 8 && !(info->csp & X264_CSP_HIGH_DEPTH) )
MasterNobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 21:13   #33  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
According what avs is now, do you think it should be removed in the future builds ?
It would be nice to have the same behaviour of x265 for input-depth and an added dither parameter.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2021, 23:19   #34  |  Link
qyot27
...?
 
qyot27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
Hum...
https://github.com/jpsdr/x264/commit...f7892b6e208806
According what avs is now, do you think it should be removed in the future builds ?
And just keep
Code:
info->csp |= X264_CSP_HIGH_DEPTH;
The only reason to keep it is for anybody still clinging to 2.6 instead of switching to Plus, because if they're using Plus, the high bit depth formats are correctly handled without the patch, and if they have to rely on plugins that still haven't been updated to support native high bit depth and still output as Interleaved16, Plus provides its own function - ConvertFromDoubleWidth (in the ConvertStacked plugin that's distributed with the core) - that does the job of stitching it back into a proper 16bit image without having to have the client program muck around with it.

Whereas, there's a danger of the 16bit hack being always enabled instead of only on-demand and screwing up HBD input by bit-shifting non-double-width HBD content (which is probably the source of the complaint here, because --input-depth is supposed to be a no-op for any formats that have their properties detected, like avs and y4m). Keeping the patch with its current behavior would likely mean that the only correct way to use it with Plus and >8bit is to use ConvertToDoubleWidth in the script to tell Plus to output in Interleaved16, completely defeating the purpose of supporting those formats correctly.
qyot27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2021, 11:58   #35  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by qyot27 View Post
The only reason to keep it is for anybody still clinging to 2.6 instead of switching to Plus, because if they're using Plus
There is absolutely no reason not to switch to AVS+ from 2.6, as there are no compatibility issues or limitations. Sometimes it's necessary to move on.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2021, 18:37   #36  |  Link
jpsdr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: France
Posts: 2,316
I'll go with MasterNobody's fix.
__________________
My github.
jpsdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2021, 18:58   #37  |  Link
videoh
Useful n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
There is absolutely no reason not to switch to AVS+ from 2.6
I'll second that.
videoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2021, 19:21   #38  |  Link
Richard1485
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
There is absolutely no reason not to switch to AVS+ from 2.6, as there are no compatibility issues or limitations. Sometimes it's necessary to move on.
Agreed. It took me a long time to jump ship to AviSynth+, but even I've moved on.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2021, 09:54   #39  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,580
Any update, guys?
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2021, 15:34   #40  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
Any update, guys?
Yeh, I'll third and forth it.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.