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Old 1st October 2009, 20:51   #301  |  Link
Sirber
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More like C++
Isn't that older than VB6?
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Old 1st October 2009, 20:55   #302  |  Link
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You speak of the past. It has received revisions, with the newest one just around the corner.
Besides, it works just fine and great on Windows 7
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Old 1st October 2009, 21:01   #303  |  Link
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Delphi 7 and later versions are a pain to use on W7 (or vista) because they are too old.
not true! I have been using delphi 7 on Windows 7 without any problems! Good advice. Do not install delphi in protected folders (Program Files) instead use Roaming folder.
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Old 1st October 2009, 21:04   #304  |  Link
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Is that related to UAC? If so, then turn it off? I always do.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 09:19   #305  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eretria-chan View Post
More like C++


And I applaud you for that. Another devil language me thinks
lol, being a Java/J2EE coder myself after having done some .NET for a while, I wouldn't say that. It's just as flexible and readable as .NET or Delphi or any object-orientated language for that matter. Java uses a VM, .NET uses assemblies, but it's the same result : you install xxx Mb of runtime stuff and use N APIs that saves you ZZ days of coding. Unmaintainable code and poor performance is most likely a PEBCAK issue, and isn't related to the platform itself.

One exception to this is the garbage collector, which I don't like. It saves ZZZ hours coding all the "free(<insert_object_here>)" lines in the right places (which doesn't exist at all in java), but tends to hide the memory allocation problems to novice developers.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 09:49   #306  |  Link
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Ah, but I am not discussing the library and wealth of functionality available for you. The only thing about it that I do not like is that it is too slow. Other than that, it is great.
However, I am discussing the language itself. This is where the dislike for any dotNet and Java comes in. What do they all have in common? They are slow as heck. Plus they are sort of languages that tries to baby-sit you, which I do not like.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 12:22   #307  |  Link
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Ah, but I am not discussing the library and wealth of functionality available for you. The only thing about it that I do not like is that it is too slow. Other than that, it is great.
However, I am discussing the language itself. This is where the dislike for any dotNet and Java comes in. What do they all have in common? They are slow as heck. Plus they are sort of languages that tries to baby-sit you, which I do not like.
You don't need millisecond reactivity for a UI or simple business apps, which makes Java or .NET perfectly useable candidates for those tasks. However, if by slow as heck you mean "unusable for writing a h.264 encoder that actually takes less than a day to encode 10 frames" then yeah, you're probably right
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Old 2nd October 2009, 16:40   #308  |  Link
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Keep in mind that this is subjective, but almost all dotNet apps I see are slow.
Slow to start.
Even slow when you push a button.
I do most certainly not approve.
So well... yes, it is subjective, as I have said, but I have no love for such languages. They are always slow in my opinion, whatever they do.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 16:50   #309  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Eretria-chan View Post
Keep in mind that this is subjective, but almost all dotNet apps I see are slow.
Slow to start.
Even slow when you push a button.
I do most certainly not approve.
So well... yes, it is subjective, as I have said, but I have no love for such languages. They are always slow in my opinion, whatever they do.
So far RealAnime 7 (.NET 3.5, x64) starts in less than 2 sec and runs realtime, but yet is does nothing except some small UI functions .
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Old 2nd October 2009, 16:56   #310  |  Link
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More like C++
Oh, you mean the language that something bloated and slow like OOo is written in? Secondly, it's funny that people now going on and on about how C++ is so awesome and fast and sleek and yet in the early 90s the same criticisms lodged against Java and now .NET were also lodged against C++. It was so slow, so bloated, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Eretria-chan View Post
Keep in mind that this is subjective, but almost all dotNet apps I see are slow.
Slow to start.
Even slow when you push a button.
I do most certainly not approve.
Then someone did something majorly wrong when writing it. Any of the .NET apps we have written where I work or the ones I've written myself have never had this issue.

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So well... yes, it is subjective, as I have said, but I have no love for such languages. They are always slow in my opinion, whatever they do.
It's called observer bias. Your mind has already decided that the .NET app is slow so no matter what the actual speed is, you always see it as slow.

Last edited by PatlaborForce; 2nd October 2009 at 17:00.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:01   #311  |  Link
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So far RealAnime 7 (.NET 3.5, x64) starts in less than 2 sec and runs realtime, but yet is does nothing except some small UI functions .
Ah, good news, so far. Let us hope it stays that way when it is functional.

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Oh, you mean the language that something bloated and slow like OOo is written in?
Slow? Hardly. You need really good proof to back that point up.
Bloated? I do not think so. Most of the language features exist for a reason. Is there a lot of stuff? Yes. Do they have a use? Yes. So you tell me. Is it bloated? I like to see it as it has a lot of features for different purposes. Hardly bloated.

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It's called observer bias. Your mind has already decided that the .NET app is slow so no matter what the actual speed is, you always see it as slow.
I have both programmed in dotNet and used a-many dotNet apps, so you can hardly say I am not fit to judge due to no experience.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:06   #312  |  Link
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Slow? Hardly. You need really good proof to back that point up.
Yep, it's both slower on cold start and warm start then almost every version of office. If you want benchmarks see here for Office startup times and here for OOo startup times. It is also notorious for being slower to open files then Office. In fact for either 3.0 or 3.1 one of the major bugs related to opening files was fixed.

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Bloated? I do not think so.
So that's why it's bigger than my Office 2003 install? Because it's not bloated?

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Most of the language features exist for a reason. Is there a lot of stuff? Yes. Do they have a use? Yes. So you tell me. Is it bloated? I like to see it as it has a lot of features for different purposes. Hardly bloated.
Considering that Office has more features and has a smaller install size then my current OOo 3.1 install I'd say yes it is bloated.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:08   #313  |  Link
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I have both programmed in dotNet and used a-many dotNet apps, so you can hardly say I am not fit to judge due to no experience.
No, but your opinion is tainted by a clear bias. If your .NET apps are lagging just by hitting a button then you are doing something clearly wrong.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:09   #314  |  Link
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Seriously, you are comparing Office to dotNet? What kind of comparison is that?!
Office is bloated. Pretty much all of Microsoft's applications are.
Seriously. You need to compare the languages directly, not via some applications.

And if dotNet is truly faster than C++, then I dare you to write x264 in it.
But perhaps we should stop for a moment. I would love to argue with your further, but as not to pollute the thread, I would stop until it gets split or simply start a new topic.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:12   #315  |  Link
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Seriously, you are comparing Office to dotNet? What kind of comparison is that?!
No, I was comparing Office to that bloated, slow pig OOo.

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Originally Posted by Eretria-chan View Post
Office is bloated. Pretty much all of Microsoft's applications are.
And OOo is even more bloated!

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Originally Posted by Eretria-chan View Post
Seriously. You need to compare the languages directly, not via some applications.
I wasn't doing any sort of language comparison. You claimed OOo wasn't slow and yet I provided benchmarks that show on startup times and load document times it is slower than any version of Office dating back to at least Word 95.

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And if dotNet is truly faster than C++, then I dare you to write x264 in it.
Never made that claim. So I don't need or want to do such a thing. On the other hand, the speed difference between a .NET GUI and something written say in MFC is going to be marginally different to the point that it's imperceptable. If you're seeing huge lags in a .NET GUI then someone is doing it wrong.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 17:18   #316  |  Link
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I will not argue with you further until such time that this is split from this topic, or if this does not happen, then never.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 18:07   #317  |  Link
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yeah back on topic guys
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Old 28th December 2009, 18:50   #318  |  Link
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Great news everybody! I successfully compiled a version that runs on Vista and Windows 7 (32bit and 64bit). Expect a release in 48h. Still have some cleaning to do and external binaries to update.

[edit]

I cannot test this since I'm at work, but here's a test build: [broken, removed]
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Last edited by Sirber; 28th December 2009 at 20:43. Reason: removed download link
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Old 28th December 2009, 20:33   #319  |  Link
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erm... I get some kind of errors..

Code:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bencos\mencoder.exe "**********************.avi"
 -mc 0 -of rawvideo -ovc x264 -oac pcm -o C:\Users\sirber\AppData\Local\Temp/bencos/video.264 -x264encopts 
deblock=1,1:bframes=5:frameref=5:threads=auto:b_pyramid:nofast_pskip:nopsnr:bitrate=268:pass=1:turbo=2 -vf harddup

MEncoder Sherpya-SVN-r30075-4.2.5 (C) 2000-2009 MPlayer Team
Option x264encopts: Bad argument b_pyramid=(null)
success: format: 0  data: 0x0 - 0xaa00000
AVI file format detected.
AVI: ODML: Building ODML index (2 superindexchunks).
VIDEO:  [H264]  848x480  24bpp  29.970 fps  820.0 kbps (100.1 kbyte/s)
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 128.0 kbit/8.33% (ratio: 16000->192000)
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
==========================================================================
Opening video filter: [expand osd=1]
Expand: -1 x -1, -1 ; -1, osd: 1, aspect: 0.000000, round: 1
Opening video filter: [harddup]
==========================================================================
Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family
Unsupported PixelFormat -1
Selected video codec: [ffh264] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg H.264)
==========================================================================
Movie-Aspect is 1.77:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
FATAL: Cannot initialize video driver.

Exiting...
[edit]

b_pyramid
Quote:
b_pyramid has changed in recent x264 versions and it now accepts
options so you can choose between b_pyramid=none, b_pyramid=strict and
b_pyramid=normal
gonan fix that...

Cannot initialize video driver

anyone has an idea?
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Last edited by Sirber; 28th December 2009 at 20:39.
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Old 28th December 2009, 20:42   #320  |  Link
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fixed the "b_pyramid=normal", works now. gonnna post a new build later tonight!

[edit]

Code:
Option x264encopts: Unknown suboption bime
Option x264encopts: Unknown suboption brdo
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Last edited by Sirber; 28th December 2009 at 20:54.
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