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Old 13th November 2015, 11:03   #34241  |  Link
meetajhu
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madVR crashing MPC-HC x64 after Windows 10 fall update(version 1511). Is there any fix?
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Old 13th November 2015, 11:20   #34242  |  Link
truexfan81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meetajhu View Post
madVR crashing MPC-HC x64 after Windows 10 fall update(version 1511). Is there any fix?
are you running nvidia graphics? i ask cause on my windows8.1 everytime madvr crashes mpc-hc the traceback shows it to be an issue with the nvidia drivers
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Old 13th November 2015, 11:27   #34243  |  Link
Murmeltier
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I really can't spot an enormous difference while comparing "crispen edges" and "sharpen edges" with 1080p content on a 1080p display when it comes to sharpness. It looks like there's indeed a difference when it comes to brightness. "Crispen Edges" seems to brighten the image, "Sharpen Edges" does nothing of that kind and that's why I personally favor "Sharpen Edges". "Shapren Edges" produces clearly a more natural looking image to me. There's just an enormous drawback. The algorithm consums about 7ms of render time on my GTX 960 (not OC) and that's just too much in combination with my other settings I don't want to adjust.

It would be great if it is possible to optmize the algorithm so that is just needs about 3ms of render time, maybe 4ms. Hey, at least I'm free to dream.

I have a question reagarding DXVA2-copyback decoding. Would there be a huge performance gain if I replace - say a DD3-1300 CL 9-9-9-24 RAM - with DDR3-1600 7-8-8-24 modules?

Last edited by Murmeltier; 13th November 2015 at 11:43. Reason: Changed the word "brighteen" to "brighten"
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Old 13th November 2015, 11:32   #34244  |  Link
meetajhu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
are you running nvidia graphics? i ask cause on my windows8.1 everytime madvr crashes mpc-hc the traceback shows it to be an issue with the nvidia drivers
I found the problem. I have 144hz 3d vision monitor and after the new update 3d mode was ON under Windows 10 display settings(not Nvidia control panel) this was causing the player to crash.
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Old 13th November 2015, 12:15   #34245  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murmeltier View Post
I have a question reagarding DXVA2-copyback decoding. Would there be a huge performance gain if I replace - say a DD3-1300 CL 9-9-9-24 RAM - with DDR3-1600 7-8-8-24 modules?
I very much doubt it. Try downclocking or overclocking your RAM to get an idea of what you would stand to gain.
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Old 13th November 2015, 12:23   #34246  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcn View Post
Yes, I occasionally get tearing on applications that don't use madVR, like Outlook.



Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I tried all the four possible combinations involving use a separate device for presentation and use a separate device for DXVA processing.
Even these didn't make a difference.
should be a GPU driver issue nothing you can do about.
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Old 13th November 2015, 17:34   #34247  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Some more thoughts on SuperRes radius:
I think one should simply use a lower SR strength for very high scaling factors, e.g. not above 2.
With it, I think aliasing is not an issue with real content in the wild and with high scaling factor, the effect of SR subjectively looks stronger to me in general.
So imho a radius of 0.66 is fine in general and if one wants less aliasing but still a nice sharpness boost, SR strength of 2 should be combined with the new sharpen options (at least once they are more affordable).
I would find it really bad if the radius was higher, as I really like the naturally sharp impression when doing 1080p -> WQHD. I suppose a radius of 0.66 also looks fine with 1080p -> 4k, as the aliasing seems to depend on a very low pixel count of thin structures.
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Old 14th November 2015, 01:44   #34248  |  Link
markanini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I find Sharpen Edges + Enhance Detail is a superior combination than Crispen Edges + Enhance Detail. Edge enhancement is less obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I don't like crispen edges either, with it alone image does look hardly shaper to my eyes and I don't find combinations with it very useful (rather combine SuperRes with a strength of 1 or 2 with sharpen edges and line thinning). It's also the only one of the new sharpeners that increases brightness.
(while sharpen edges on the other hand can decrease it a tiny bit).
If you like sharpen edges cause it's more well behaved then we there's no disagreement. Subjectively crispen edges is more visually pleasing, especially if the source is clean.
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Old 14th November 2015, 19:28   #34249  |  Link
mogli
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That's a cosmetical OSD bug. Will be fixed in the next build. You can safely ignore this, it has no meaning.
I'm not so sure about that, but let's wait and see.

There's another isssue with those interlaced DVDs since the introduction of the automatic switch to DXVA scaling:
When playback starts the clock deviation is heavily off, maybe 10^6 % or so, and the DVD essentially hangs for 10 to 20 sec until this value goes down to an acceptable level and plays fluidly thereafter.
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Old 15th November 2015, 14:52   #34250  |  Link
Sp00kyFox
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hi there madshi. first time I'm posting here but I'm using your VR for a long time now. I was playing around with the new implemented sharpen agorithms and so far I'm pretty satisfied with sharpen and crispen, both at default values. the effect with superres is too subtle though for my taste, but maybe my display resolution is too low for the filter to be useful. I usually watch 720p content with a native screen resolution of 1680x1050. regarding luma and adaptive sharpen, I also don't see much use for them. I can't imagine content where I would prefer them over the new four ones.

anyways, I wanted to draw some attention to a new developed downscaling algorithm by ETH Zurich which is called "Perceptually Downscaling" which gets pretty amazing results:
https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/imageDownscaling.htm

I think that could be a gread addition to madvr. according to the paper the performance of is pretty good (they implemented it with matlab) and it should be possible to execute it in realtime. it seems that they didn't publish the code though but the algorithm is explained in the paper and presented in pseudo code, it only consists of convolutions and sums.

Last edited by Sp00kyFox; 15th November 2015 at 15:22.
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Old 15th November 2015, 15:30   #34251  |  Link
huhn
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not sure about this downscaler. is sharper than bicubic but terrible aliased at the same time.

just look at the hair.

the comparison algorithm are pretty weak to say it friendly.
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Old 15th November 2015, 16:23   #34252  |  Link
ashlar42
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I concur, if I have to limit myself at the images displayed on that page, the algorithm seems pretty terrible, to be honest. I like a sharp image, but judging from these images one is supposed to watch a Minecraft game, not a movie.

Edit: pictures here are better, though https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/Fi...ralImages.html

Aliasing is still there, but at least I can see a reason for taking it into consideration. They really ought to change the pics in the homepage.

Edit 2: these https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/Fi...udyImages.html are even better. Interesting...

Last edited by ashlar42; 15th November 2015 at 16:27.
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Old 15th November 2015, 17:03   #34253  |  Link
KoD
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Bug report: with the provided file (35Mb), madVR breaks in many different ways when using QuickSync as the decoder in MPC-HC. EVR (custom presenter) has no problems, with the same decoder. It's a straight mux to mkv of the first minute of the first episode of Star Trek Voyager, from a PAL DVD disc (25i material).


I am listing the steps to follow for what I describe below, because based on what you do, the issues you get are different:
- connect your display (TV in my case) directly to your motherboard HDMI port; if you connect your display to another graphic card, and just use QS decoding in the background, the results below will be different (like, no issues in some cases and much worse issues in others);
- switch your display to a 50Hz refresh rate (again, if you have a different refresh rate, the issues are much worse)
- reset the madVR settings, using the "restore default settings.bat" in the madVR folder
- in MPC-HC Options: Playback\Output\Auto-zoom = enabled, and set to AutoFit (Larger only)
- in MPC-HC Options: Playback\Fullscreen\Launch files in Fullscreen = disabled


Now, in MPC-HC, let's first configure to use EVR as the video renderer, select xySubfilter as the subtitle renderer, and QuickSync as the hardware decoder, and play the file. During playback, make sure to try and skip back and forth in the file (using the keyboard arrows, for instance), and to switch between windowed mode and full-screen mode, just to make sure that everything works fine. Notice that subtitles are located nicely at the bottom of the image, too.
- with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = disabled" -> no issues
- with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = enabled" -> no issues

Now select madVR as renderer, and make sure xySubfilter is also selected as the subtitle renderer. Start playback, but pause it immediately to configure madVR a bit more:
- devices->display modes->switch to matching display mode = disabled
- processing->zoom control->move subtitles = disabled
- rendering->general settings->full-screen exclusive mode = disabled.

Playback results:
- with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = disabled", madVR using DX9 video path, while the file plays in a MPC-HC window of the same size as the video material, everything seems to look fine; the opening credits are scrolling, and then the action in the video begins, with some talking heads; it's at this point that you see subtitles in the video, too; but try to switch to fullscreen mode -> the subtitles are no longer at the proper location in the video ! They're now in the middle-left part of the screen.

- same as above, but with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = enabled": again, everything seems to be fine; let's try and switch to full-screen mode-> what do you know, this time the subtitles are in the proper location (at the bottom of the screen)!

Don't forget to switch between full-screen mode and windowed mode, and to skip in the file back and forth, to make sure that everything else is fine!

Ok, time to switch madVR to use the DX11 path:
- rendering->general settings->use Direct3D 11 for presentation = enabled
- rendering->general settings->present a frame for every VSync = enabled


Now, playback results:
- with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = disabled", madVR using DX11 video path, while the file plays in a MPC-HC window of the same size as the video material, everything seems to look fine, at least at the beginning; when the talking heads appear, you might notice some judder, but you might also think it's a fluke. So, after these talking heads appear, let's switch to fullscreen mode -> very likely you'll see an extreme case of frames jumping back and forth, making the chaotic video even more chaotic. Or, if per chance this does not happen, just skip back a bit, I guarantee the extreme jumping will start. And, did you notice the subtitles are once again located in the middle-left part of the image?
- with "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = enabled", madVR using DX11 video path, switching to full-screen does not have the same dramatic effect as above, you notice some jumps but not that bad. But it's enough to skip back or forth in the file, and the extreme frame jumping starts.


I'll make one more comment, about having the display connected to another graphics adapter, instead of your motherboard video port. In this case, having "Enable Adaptive HW deinterlacing = disabled" might give a working picture, but turn this setting on, and this is by far the worst playback scenario - you might get a frame every 1 minute or so, if you have the patience to wait for it; we can't really say there is any playback in this case.


Finally, switch back to EVR (custom presenter) as the video renderer, to have proof that everything can work fine when using the same decoder and the same file.


These kind of issues don't happen with every file. But when it happens, it's really bad.

Last edited by KoD; 15th November 2015 at 17:24. Reason: details
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Old 15th November 2015, 19:34   #34254  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl View Post
Thanks!
Sorry, but the problem is not fixed here
The log:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7a...ew?usp=sharing
Argh. Ok, can you create another log with the next madVR build? I've added some more logging output, maybe it helps me finding out what's going on there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
OK great, would there be room for further improvement there in your opinion?
I'm not sure what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It's useful at a glance.. Could you at least state the profiles that are running?
You do realize that there can be 17 different profile groups? Kodi/DSPlayer actually has a mode which creates the max number of profile groups. I don't really want to add (up to) 17 new information fields to the OSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Some more thoughts on SuperRes radius:
I think one should simply use a lower SR strength for very high scaling factors, e.g. not above 2.
With it, I think aliasing is not an issue with real content in the wild and with high scaling factor, the effect of SR subjectively looks stronger to me in general.
So imho a radius of 0.66 is fine in general and if one wants less aliasing but still a nice sharpness boost, SR strength of 2 should be combined with the new sharpen options (at least once they are more affordable).
I would find it really bad if the radius was higher, as I really like the naturally sharp impression when doing 1080p -> WQHD. I suppose a radius of 0.66 also looks fine with 1080p -> 4k, as the aliasing seems to depend on a very low pixel count of thin structures.
Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace960 View Post
The media player reacts. When I press stop button then it is pressed and the sound of the actual file stops playing. The video remains frozen until I close mpc-hc.

I would also add information that the system have two displays. One is the primary PC monitor. The second one is TV where the movies are played fullscreen. I operate mpc-hc from the main PC monitor taskbar (for this kind of test).
Please activate debug mode, then reproduce the problem, let the media player stay frozen for 20 seconds, then please terminate it with the task manager. Then please zip and upload the log somewhere (not here) for me to look it. Please also create 2-3 freeze reports (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Pause/Break). Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogli View Post
I'm not so sure about that, but let's wait and see.

There's another isssue with those interlaced DVDs since the introduction of the automatic switch to DXVA scaling:
When playback starts the clock deviation is heavily off, maybe 10^6 % or so, and the DVD essentially hangs for 10 to 20 sec until this value goes down to an acceptable level and plays fluidly thereafter.
Sounds strange. I don't think I have that problem here. Do you have another PC to double check this with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00kyFox View Post
anyways, I wanted to draw some attention to a new developed downscaling algorithm by ETH Zurich which is called "Perceptually Downscaling" which gets pretty amazing results:
https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/imageDownscaling.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
not sure about this downscaler. is sharper than bicubic but terrible aliased at the same time.

just look at the hair.

the comparison algorithm are pretty weak to say it friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
I concur, if I have to limit myself at the images displayed on that page, the algorithm seems pretty terrible, to be honest. I like a sharp image, but judging from these images one is supposed to watch a Minecraft game, not a movie.

Edit: pictures here are better, though https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/Fi...ralImages.html

Aliasing is still there, but at least I can see a reason for taking it into consideration. They really ought to change the pics in the homepage.

Edit 2: these https://graphics.ethz.ch/~cengizo/Fi...udyImages.html are even better. Interesting...
Could be worth a try. It does look like it tends to produce heavy aliasing in some situations, but maybe it could be improved by running some sort of smoothing filter. I don't have time for this atm, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD View Post
Bug report: with the provided file (35Mb), madVR breaks in many different ways when using QuickSync as the decoder in MPC-HC. EVR (custom presenter) has no problems, with the same decoder. It's a straight mux to mkv of the first minute of the first episode of Star Trek Voyager, from a PAL DVD disc (25i material).
Which exact GPU are you using when getting the DX11 frame jumping? And which OS are you using? And which discrete GPU are you using when *not* connecting your display to the mainboard HDMI output?
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Old 15th November 2015, 19:50   #34255  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.89.17 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* significant speedups for "sharpen edges" and "thin edges" algos
* small quality change (hopefully improvement?) for "thin edges"
* fixed: repeated frames were reported although smooth motion FRC was on
Some benchmarks on my development PC:

Code:
AMD HD7750 1080p24:
AdaptiveSharpen: 6.34ms
sharpen edges v0.89.16: 17.15ms
sharpen edges v0.89.17: 9.87ms
thin edges v0.89.16: 25.62ms
thin edges v0.89.17: 5.41ms

Intel HD4000 720p24:
AdaptiveSharpen: 9.92ms
sharpen edges v0.89.16: 36.2ms
sharpen edges v0.89.17: 15.9ms

NVidia GTX650 1080p24
AdaptiveSharpen: 15.51ms
sharpen edges v0.89.16: 27.59ms
sharpen edges v0.89.17: 11.69ms
And yes, the results are weird on the NVidia compared to AMD and Intel. But I've double checked, the results are correct. So "sharpen edges" is now about 50% slower than AdaptiveSharpen on my AMD & Intel GPUs, but 25% faster than AdaptiveSharpen on my NVidia GPU.
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Old 15th November 2015, 20:35   #34256  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Thanks for the performance optimizations.
With GTX 980, now Adaptive Sharpen and sharpen edges roughly seem to be equally fast. Adaptive Sharpen is still slightly faster, I get a little lower GPU usage and rendering time with it. So there seems to be a difference to Kepler.

Regarding SuperRes again:
I read here that SR would produce an overly sharp picture to some when doing 1080p -> WQHD. However, I can hardly believe this. I made a sharpness comparison with a game screenshot rendered in WQHD, and despite of SR with strength of 3 on top of Jinc AR scaling, it's still noticeably softer than the original (and much closer to ground truth than just Jinc AR without SR):

Original in WQHD:


Downscaled to 1080p with C-R GL:


Upscaled to WQHD Jinc AR without SR:


SR strength 3:
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Old 15th November 2015, 21:09   #34257  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not sure what you mean.
Well, 2X SR improves edges clarity so how about another extra pass on top of it for instance? Most users here don't care about increased GPU load if PQ improves.

Thanks a lot for .17 but apparently 2X is still disabled for SR only? Based on my screenshots comparison, you seemed to agree that 2X SR improves PQ so why not? I got no use for 1X only SR
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Old 15th November 2015, 21:15   #34258  |  Link
rodrigo081089
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Is it possible to use madvr with h265 10 bits videos? Because if i play it i cant get hardware decoding. The only way to make it works itīs with EVR
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Old 15th November 2015, 21:22   #34259  |  Link
edigee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodrigo081089 View Post
Is it possible to use madvr with h265 10 bits videos? Because if i play it i cant get hardware decoding. The only way to make it works itīs with EVR
LAV filters ,DXVA copyback should work with no problems. Of course ,it depends of the HEVC decoding capabilities of the GPU.
AFAIK the only cards that can do that are GTX 960/950. Maybe there are other platforms( integrated GPU/CPU) ,laptops that can do hevc hardware decoding.
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Old 15th November 2015, 21:41   #34260  |  Link
KoD
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Which exact GPU are you using when getting the DX11 frame jumping? And which OS are you using? And which discrete GPU are you using when *not* connecting your display to the mainboard HDMI output?
The CPU is a i7 4790K (HD4600 iGPU), and the discrete GPU is a GTX 980. OS is Win 8.1 64 bit.

What I looked for was to have QS doing the decoding and deinterlacing, and having the GTX 980 doing the resizing. But decoding + deinterlacing on QS was not working properly when using the dGPU for output (as soon as I skipped in the file, playback started grinding), so I tried to debug what was going on, and connected the TV directly to the motherboard HDMI port. That's how I encountered all of the above.

madshi, is it certain that the bat file really resets all the settings? And that it does not have to be run as administrator? Because I did not have the issue with subtitle positioning on this same file when I used 0.89.15 with the ar fixed dlls. But the issue started happening after switching to 0.89.16 (and doing a reset settings to defaults). Then I switched back to 0.89.15 + the ar fixed dlls, did a reset to defaults, and still had the subtitle issue. Finally, I started modifying all the settings in madVR, just enabling stuff, pressing Apply, and then disabling them back, and after some such random operations the subtitle issue was gone again with 0.89.15. But I also started doing the same in the Intel Graphics CP (like disabling the 3D Application Optimal Mode setting - when this is enabled the madVR OSD flickers badly on that file), so I'm not sure what fixed the positioning. The frame jumping back and forth is still there though, as are the issues when using the GTX 980 for output and QS for decoding and deinterlacing.

Last edited by KoD; 15th November 2015 at 21:53.
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