Any free MVC encoder yet?

[mariner]

Originally Posted by nm

Yep, that's what I thought. So you'll need to manually switch the desktop layout if you have videos with different frame packing formats.

That's right.

Either way should work. I chose vertical stacking because graphics cards may be able to decode 1920x2160 in DXVA.

[sneaker_ger]

As nm already pointed out: setting frame-packing only sets some kind of flag in the stream and your player does not rely on it. That's why correct playback works anyways.

Originally Posted by rica

But i can get BD compatible files as well: (Both TMT 5 and PDVD 10 plays them flawlessly in 3D mode:

So the BD specs allow side-by-side/top-bottom encoded H.264 in addition to MVC? If not, please don't call them BD compatible, because the specs define what's BD, not the abilities of some BD player.

[rica]

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

So the BD specs allow side-by-side/top-bottom encoded H.264 in addition to MVC? If not, please don't call them BD compatible, because the specs define what's BD, not the abilities of some BD player.

You're right; that was a false explaination, sorry.

Edited, thanks:

But i can get 1920*1080 3D files as well: (Both TMT 5 and PDVD 10 plays them flawlessly in 3D mode:

[mariner]

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

As nm already pointed out: setting frame-packing only sets some kind of flag in the stream and your player does not rely on it. That's why correct playback works anyways.

Thanks again, sneaker_ger. Your help has been indispensable.

For your amusement, here is a short pseudo 3D using Martin Haverland's conversion script:

Name: 700_v_2D3D.mkv
Size: 125.25MB
Description: 1920x1080/60p 2Dto3D Top/bottom
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hnw7q9

Any feedback on graphics cards DXVA decoding capabilities most appreciated.

[sneaker_ger]

Thanks, but I don't actually own a 3D display yet to enjoy the clip.

@x264 devs
Do you plan to also flag 3D streams on the container level for Matroska? Players that prioritize container information over stream information (which is the correct way to do things IMHO) would regard the current output as 2D material. (I know that it's not that important without audio support and missing indexing.)

[rica]

Originally Posted by shon3i

I am playing with Mainconcept MVC (not cinevision) and usualy get same results as kolak. Right eye definitly need less bitrate, but depends from many factors.

Hi shon3i,

i downloaded MainConcept Referance MVC beta and i always got this popup while i was trying to add the files to output:



Any ideas?

[shon3i]

Try installing reference 2.1 trial too.

[rica]

Originally Posted by shon3i

Try installing reference 2.1 trial too.

Yes i already did but i have the same pop-up.

(Even i unistalled both of them and reinstalled back- this time i installed reference before reference MVC)

Thank you anyway.

[shon3i]

Well you can contact mainconcept, i have no problems.

[rica]

shon3i,

i don't think they will help since my source left and right files are extracted from a 3D BD:

BTW, i think the problem is MC can not recognize the frame number of the right-eye video.

Re-encoded right-video: (at bottom)

[PRG] 0:00:39.421 6927 frames found, 92% complete
[PRG] 0:00:39.531 7020 frames found, 93% complete
[PRG] 0:00:39.624 7106 frames found, 94% complete
[PRG] 0:00:39.733 7205 frames found, 95% complete
[PRG] 0:00:39.827 7275 frames found, 96% complete
[PRG] 0:00:39.936 7342 frames found, 97% complete
[PRG] 0:00:40.045 7402 frames found, 98% complete
[PRG] 0:00:40.139 7467 frames found, 99% complete
[DBG] 0:00:40.248 mpegInOpen: 10.323846 sec, result=0
[DBG] 0:00:40.264 mpegdec: opened in 10.378210 sec.
[INF] 0:00:40.264 Successfully opened file 'C:/H264StereoSource_a2/left.h264' with decoder 'mpegdec'.
[INF] 0:00:40.264 Successfully opened file 'C:/H264StereoSource_a2/left.mmf' with decoder 'mvmetadec'.



[PRG] 0:02:42.397 196 frames found, 89% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.475 197 frames found, 90% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.522 198 frames found, 91% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.662 200 frames found, 93% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.787 204 frames found, 94% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.865 206 frames found, 95% complete
[PRG] 0:02:42.974 207 frames found, 97% complete
[PRG] 0:02:43.052 210 frames found, 98% complete
[PRG] 0:02:43.161 211 frames found, 99% complete
[DBG] 0:02:43.255 mpegInOpen: 55.040471 sec, result=0

Un-encoded original right video (at bottom)

[PRG] 0:03:26.498 60518 frames found, 95% complete
[PRG] 0:03:27.497 61353 frames found, 96% complete
[PRG] 0:03:28.433 62034 frames found, 97% complete
[PRG] 0:03:29.322 62670 frames found, 98% complete
[PRG] 0:03:30.227 63321 frames found, 99% complete
[DBG] 0:03:31.225 mpegInOpen: 159.904661 sec, result=0
[DBG] 0:03:31.319 mpegdec: opened in 160.580298 sec.
[INF] 0:03:31.319 Successfully opened file 'C:/00010 - 2 - h264 (left eye), 1080p24.h264' with decoder 'mpegdec'.
[INF] 0:03:31.319 Successfully opened file 'C:/00010 - 2 - mmf (left eye), 1080p24.mmf' with decoder 'mvmetadec'.
[DBG] 0:03:31.319 cropper.setParam: mode [Int32]          = 1


[PRG] 0:06:36.742 1401 frames found, 87% complete
[PRG] 0:06:37.615 1410 frames found, 88% complete
[PRG] 0:06:38.270 1420 frames found, 89% complete
[PRG] 0:06:39.191 1443 frames found, 90% complete
[PRG] 0:06:39.846 1457 frames found, 91% complete
[PRG] 0:06:40.517 1474 frames found, 92% complete
[PRG] 0:06:41.250 1488 frames found, 93% complete
[PRG] 0:06:41.983 1503 frames found, 94% complete
[PRG] 0:06:42.638 1512 frames found, 95% complete
[PRG] 0:06:43.434 1540 frames found, 96% complete
[PRG] 0:06:44.136 1581 frames found, 97% complete
[PRG] 0:06:44.978 1600 frames found, 98% complete
[PRG] 0:06:45.478 1708 frames found, 99% complete
[DBG] 0:06:46.195 mpegInOpen: 115.293104 sec, result=0

[Dark Shikari]

My initial testing on 3D content is done.

Free lossless 3D test sequence (L/R interleaved).

I have some tweaking I plan to do, but the crux of the matter is that MVC is totally pointless, as are all coding schemes besides interleaved mode. DVB's insane attempt to use T/B half-resolution using regular AVC is going to cost billions of dollars in wasted bandwidth.

Using that source, at crf 25, without any changes to x264:

Two separate streams: 3709 and 3700kbps, for 7.4mbps total
One stream, interleaved: 5503kbps (improvement: ~34.5%)
PSNR improvement: ~0.381db (~7.5%)
Overall improvement: 42%

Also, even on superfast x264 is able to capture "motion" perfectly between two views, even if they're widely spaced from each other. No special 3D-aware motion estimation methods are required. I do recommend using at least --ref 2 though, even with superfast, so it can predict from both the previous frame and the previous view.

[rica]

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

No special 3D-aware motion estimation methods are required.

Sorry in advance if i misundersood:
Do you mean existent 3D Players are able to recognize those re-created frame packed files without MVC?

[Stephen R. Savage]

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

I have some tweaking I plan to do, but the crux of the matter is that MVC is totally pointless, as are all coding schemes besides interleaved mode. DVB's insane attempt to use T/B half-resolution using regular AVC is going to cost billions of dollars in wasted bandwidth.

I can see how frame interleaving might be practical for 720p, since 30 fps is still a reasonable speed, but I fail to see how broadcasters have much choice in the matter for 1080i unless they use some kind of frame packing, probably row interlacing. Or, do you have some other scheme in mind?

Originally Posted by rica

Sorry in advance if i misundersood:
Do you mean existent 3D Players are able to recognize those re-created frame packed files without MVC?

I think he just means that the motion estimation in H.264 is sufficient to compress stereoscopic content. Whether players recognize non-MVC 3D is a whole other matter.

[kieranrk]

Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage

I can see how frame interleaving might be practical for 720p, since 30 fps is still a reasonable speed.

ESPN uses 720p120 on it's main feed.

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage

I can see how frame interleaving might be practical for 720p, since 30 fps is still a reasonable speed, but I fail to see how broadcasters have much choice in the matter for 1080i unless they use some kind of frame packing, probably row interlacing. Or, do you have some other scheme in mind?

Er... you just lower the resolution. They're already planning on doing this with top/bottom frame packing: you include two 1920x540 streams. They would be better off doing 1920x540 at 60fps than 1920x540, packed to 1920x1080, at 30fps. The amount of processing power required is identical.

[rica]

Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage

I think he just means that the motion estimation in H.264 is sufficient to compress stereoscopic content. Whether players recognize non-MVC 3D is a whole other matter.

Ok then please correct me if i'm wrong:

1) If you don't re-create a 3D BD you won't need MVC encoding.
2) In this case you may use x264 and it will put some flags.
3) Then what MVC is for: just for player to recognize the file structure by itself? Side-by-side or top-bottom?

EDIT: BTW thanks Dark for your valuable contribution.

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by rica

Ok then please correct me if i'm wrong:

1) If you don't re-create a 3D BD you won't need MVC encoding.
2) In this case you may use x264 and it will put some flags.
3) Then what MVC is for: just for player to recognize the file structure by itself? Side-by-side or top-bottom?

EDIT: BTW thanks Dark for your valuable contribution.

--frame-packing is for the player to recognize the file structure. You don't need MVC for that.

[rica]

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

--frame-packing is for the player to recognize the file structure. You don't need MVC for that.

Sorry but why do i have to reset everytime the player's 3D settings then?

EDIT: I've missed "--frame-packing" switch.

[rica]

I do wonder whether i can combine "--frame-packing" with Adam's tool or not?

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...5&postcount=56

[Disabled]

But what does MVC add? This Introduction to Multiview Video Coding doesn't have many details. That "Temporal/inter-view prediction structure for MVC" looks complex, but might be reproducable with multi-refs and b-pyramid? I also wonder, why Cam1 doesn't have any P-frames...