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Old 11th February 2018, 17:32   #481  |  Link
huhn
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a 3d lut is a way to calibrate a display. the madVr 3d lut has nothing todo with your display 3d lut.
you can either do it with software or at the hardware in your display.
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Old 11th February 2018, 19:08   #482  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0n=0sTT88 View Post
This options are for use the internal colour CPU of 3D-LUT with madVR?
madVR will apply it with the GPU, not the CPU, but yes. That 3DLUT is all madVR and the fact that your monitor has its own 3DLUT is irrelevant.

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If I use these options, will not I get better quality with my Nec PA272W?
You will get better quality if you use some method of calibration. If you already have a very good 3DLUT in your monitor's hardware 3DLUT then madVR might be a little better but it is not going to be like the the difference between calibrated and uncalibrated.
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Old 11th February 2018, 19:18   #483  |  Link
e-t172
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As to the question of whether you should calibrate using the hardware 3DLUT in your monitor or the 3DLUT in madVR, it depends.

If you use the monitor for other things besides watching videos, you might want to do the calibration in hardware so that you get a near-perfect sRGB gamut everywhere (games, web browsing, etc.). In that case you should tell madVR that your display is already calibrated to the BT.709 gamut.

If you only use madVR with that monitor, it's probably a better idea to do the calibration in madVR because it can be done in higher precision and madVR has more knowledge about the properties of the source colorspace. (I wouldn't expect that to make much of a difference though, unless you're dealing with tricky cases like a BT.2020 source.)

Whatever you do, it is a bad idea to use a 3DLUT in both madVR and your screen - stacking LUTs on top of each other will result in growing numerical inaccuracies that can lead to aberrant behaviour and especially banding. Choose a single approach and then stick to it.
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Old 18th February 2018, 22:37   #484  |  Link
Isley
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Quick question : do I need to restart MPC-HC when I change a madVR setting for it to take effect?
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:48   #485  |  Link
Asmodian
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No, except for the rendering method, e.g. D3D9, D3D9 overlay, or D3D11.
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Old 20th February 2018, 15:45   #486  |  Link
takenori
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another question here, please

if i have this calibration result (factory calibrated),


what should i put on madvrs calibration tab? also, seeing this calibrated on hdmi, is there anychange if i connect to the monitor using displayport?
Attached Images
  

Last edited by takenori; 20th February 2018 at 15:49.
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Old 20th February 2018, 17:49   #487  |  Link
Asmodian
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Attachments take a very long to to be approved, it is recommended to host images somewhere else and link them here.

Sadly your second question has an annoying "sometimes" as an answer. Usually there is no difference between different inputs but I have seen it before. Hopefully it is much less common now. Analog v.s. digital inputs were usually (always) different but often digital inputs are the same.
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Old 20th February 2018, 18:41   #488  |  Link
mytbyte
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Can anyone tell me whether it is possible to passthrough BT.2020 color to TV from an SDR video (satellite broadcast files), not only HDR? Search was no help. I think it is as much a part of the standard as is BT.2020 coupled with HDR and not some marginal thing.
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Old 20th February 2018, 19:03   #489  |  Link
Asmodian
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Well, you can but the TV will probably assume it is BT.709. HDR added the ability to send metadata to the TV. Before HDR most devices didn't worry about color space very much and just assumed the input was in a particular one (B7.709 for HD). Using HDR mode the data could be fully SDR and as long as the metadata is appropriate it could look correct, but you need the TV to pay attention to metadata, which they usually only do in a HDR mode.

My LG OLED C79 has a DCI-P3 mode (it assumes SD input is DCI-P3) and an "extended" BT.709 mode that I suppose assumes BT.709 input but displays it a bit stretched because who cares about standards?
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Old 20th February 2018, 19:20   #490  |  Link
mytbyte
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How can I do it? My Tv is 2015 4K Panasonic but not HDR (very angry about it since it only requires update support for PQ transform but nooo...) and it is quite happy to recognize BT.2020 SDR from a chinese TV box...also internal sat tuners and player recognize BT.2020 and are happy to transform the gamut to its native (wider than rec709 but somewhat less than DCI-P3) so it does pay attention to metadata

I don't get the HDR option in Windows 1709, so I cannot enable it to get the metadata passthrough...

extended BT709 may be xvYCC Deep color?

Last edited by mytbyte; 20th February 2018 at 19:28.
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Old 21st February 2018, 01:51   #491  |  Link
takenori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Attachments take a very long to to be approved, it is recommended to host images somewhere else and link them here.

Sadly your second question has an annoying "sometimes" as an answer. Usually there is no difference between different inputs but I have seen it before. Hopefully it is much less common now. Analog v.s. digital inputs were usually (always) different but often digital inputs are the same.
sorry.
here it is

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Old 21st February 2018, 08:29   #492  |  Link
mytbyte
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@takenori: nothing in your pictures suggests what gamut calibration preset to choose in MadVR (if that's what you asked). Gamma is 2.2 at default anyway.

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Old 21st February 2018, 09:02   #493  |  Link
Asmodian
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@takenori: I agree, the default seems the most likely: BT.709, pure power curve, 2.2.
Do you know if you have a "wide gamut" display?

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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
I don't get the HDR option in Windows 1709, so I cannot enable it to get the metadata passthrough...
Ouch, I have no idea. This is why I think HDR still isn't quite ready, let alone the earliest implementations for communicating color information to displays. It is likely none of the current standards will be the HDR standard we actually end up wanting when HDR becomes ubiquitous.

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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
extended BT709 may be xvYCC Deep color?
It doesn't seem that much larger, xvYCC should be 1.8 times as large as BT.709. BTW it is only xvYCC for gamut, Deep Color is another thing (10-bit). Complementary but separate technologies.
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:12   #494  |  Link
takenori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
@takenori: nothing in your pictures suggests what gamut calibration preset to choose in MadVR (if that's what you asked). Gamma is 2.2 at default anyway.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
@takenori: I agree, the default seems the most likely: BT.709, pure power curve, 2.2.
Do you know if you have a "wide gamut" display?


it probably is, here is madvrs identification report:
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:16   #495  |  Link
mytbyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

It doesn't seem that much larger, xvYCC should be 1.8 times as large as BT.709. BTW it is only xvYCC for gamut, Deep Color is another thing (10-bit). Complementary but separate technologies.
Yes, I'm usually not that confused but it was so long ago...however, my BD player calls it Deep Color wider gamut is still referred to as deep color these day since the two usually do come together BT.2020 and 10-12 bit...

Regarding passthrough, I'll keep trying, perhaps I missed something, perhaps a deus ex machina (madshi) appears and takes the pain away.
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:16   #496  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by takenori View Post
it probably is, here is madvrs identification report:
Hmm.. then you really need to know what gamut it is closest too. The report shows every gray is a shade of the same color "white" with a 2.2 gamma, but we know nothing about the gamut. It isn't BT.2020.
Based on TFT Central's findings it is in that difficult area, 127% of sRGB (BT.709) but only 93.6% of DCI-P3. Using DCI-P3 will look a little washed out but using BT.709 will look oversaturated. You need a meter to take measurements and create a 3DLUT.

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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
Regarding passthrough, I'll keep trying, perhaps I missed something, perhaps a deus ex machina (madshi) appears and takes the pain away.
I assume you have tried madVR's "passthrough HDR content to the display?" That forces HDR mode on my TV, with HDR10 or Dolby Vision content, without using the Windows setting (it uses Nvidia's HDR API).
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:23   #497  |  Link
mytbyte
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@takenori: the report only reveals that the TV recognizes BT.2020, but it's native gamut is smaller but unknown...you could manually force the TV into BT.2020 mode and set calibration to BT.2020 or use the passthrough (if it works ) or you could measure the primaries and use that with "process HDR content by using pixel shader math"

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Old 21st February 2018, 09:30   #498  |  Link
mytbyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post


I assume you have tried madVR's "passthrough HDR content to the display?" That forces HDR mode on my TV, with HDR10 or Dolby Vision content, without using the Windows setting (it uses Nvidia's HDR API).
I have tried, but perhaps I missed something, perhaps NVidia drivers need upadating...the only way the TV lets me know that it's switched to BT.2020 mode is when I manually change gamut from Standard to Native, it acts the other way around - the color in Native become less saturated while in 709 mode they become more saturated (actually deeper, pun intended)

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Old 24th February 2018, 10:03   #499  |  Link
takenori
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Hmm.. then you really need to know what gamut it is closest too. The report shows every gray is a shade of the same color "white" with a 2.2 gamma, but we know nothing about the gamut. It isn't BT.2020.
Based on TFT Central's findings it is in that difficult area, 127% of sRGB (BT.709) but only 93.6% of DCI-P3. Using DCI-P3 will look a little washed out but using BT.709 will look oversaturated. You need a meter to take measurements and create a 3DLUT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
@takenori: the report only reveals that the TV recognizes BT.2020, but it's native gamut is smaller but unknown...you could manually force the TV into BT.2020 mode and set calibration to BT.2020 or use the passthrough (if it works ) or you could measure the primaries and use that with "process HDR content by using pixel shader math"

i assume that this taking measurement needs some tools?

i tried bt2020 for calibration, and its a way washed out.
for the time being, dci-p3 seems the closer i can get without buying additional tools right?


also, another question (please)
is there anyway to capture hdr screenshot from mpchc-madvr?

i tried direct save image from mpchc, but while its vibrant enough, it doesnt compare to the file being played, while microsoft suggestion to use xbox screenshot results in a very washed out image that doesnt turn to hdr image when i turn hdr on instead it turn to a doubly washed out.
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Old 24th February 2018, 10:08   #500  |  Link
Asmodian
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Yes, that display really needs a meter for best results.

It is hard to know which would be better, BT.709 or DCI-P3. 93.6% is pretty small but 127% is quite large. Probably DCI-P3 but pick the one you like more.

I don't think there is a way to save the HDR metadata to the screenshot, similarly I don't think most image viewing programs would set the HDR metadata if it were possible to save it.
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