madVR - General discussion thread

[SamuriHL]

No idea. It took me a while to get it working at all so I don't have any idea what it would take to do what you're asking.

[mclingo]

Just to reiterate I am sincere about keeping this civil, this isn’t meant to be a personal attack, we are having an discussion as far as I am concerned, please don’t read anything else into this, even If I am being critical, I’m trying to have an objective discussion.

Sorry but I cant agree that all AMD users are just lucky mate, that’s just silly. If we cant at least agree on the below there really is no point anyone discussing this ever as these are objective facts.

• Nvidia cards are powerful cards, they are more advanced, clock for clock they probably have 40% more grunt in MADVR than an AMD and games.

• NVIDIA cards are more expensive and so as you can get more for your money with AMD cards which can narrow the gap a little.


• AMD cards have native support for 23,976 playback and NVIDIA card don’t, this means that AMD users can achieve seamless playback at all times as long as they are setup correctly but NVIDIA users will always get at least one frame drop every 20-30 mins in 2D playback and 4-13 minutes in 3D MVC playback.

• There are other issues with NVIDA and AMD cards but these are all defeatable but using the relevant driver, current driver for AMD and pre 4xxx for NVIDIA.

[huhn]

• Nvidia cards are powerful cards, they are more advanced, clock for clock they probably have 40% more grunt in MADVR than an AMD and games.

while NGU runs terrible on polaris. AMD card they are totally great with madVR usually better than nvidia cards.

and games are actually running very similar between a 1060 and a 580. the 580 is only a 15 % bigger chip and has far lower clocks than the 1060. so it is doing pretty good.

vega cards are pretty bad on the other hand. the chip is huge more than double that of a polaris chip for only 50 %gain over a RX 580.

• NVIDIA cards are more expensive and so as you can get more for your money with AMD cards which can narrow the gap a little.

before you talked about 40% more power in madVR and games while this is true NGU but how can you get more for your moneny when a 1060 and rx 580 are priced similar?
a 580 8 GB is at around the same price as a 1060
a 1070 ti is a similar if not cheaper and a better card than a vega 56
a 1080 is a similar if not cheaper and a better card than a vega 64

at the mining crisis nvidia cards where far cheaper than AMD cards atm it "looks" like AMD cards are getting cheaper.
there is a other polaris rebrand rumoured maybe this has something todo with it.

• AMD cards have native support for 23,976 playback and NVIDIA card don’t, this means that AMD users can achieve seamless playback at all times as long as they are setup correctly but NVIDIA users will always get at least one frame drop every 20-30 mins in 2D playback and 4-13 minutes in 3D MVC playback.

i can right now add an amd card into my system and it will not get seamless playback with a simple reasons i have soundcards with decent DAC.i used AMD card in the past for my HTPC and i needed a custom resolution as expected.
the out of the box clocks from AMD and intel are both clocser out of the box if that'S want you want to hear.

so i'm pretty much disagreeing with everything here. and i have price data to back it up and countless multi game reviews.

• There are other issues with NVIDA and AMD cards but these are all defeatable but using the relevant driver, current driver for AMD and pre 4xxx for NVIDIA.

there is so much broken about both and there are some very old ones.
the mismatched chroma on nvidia DXVA processing is just a feature now so old is it.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by huhn

while ...

NVIDIA wins hand down on gaming which equates to better performance in MADVR, no argument, and of story.

If putting an AMD card in your system doesnt work for you for technical reasons again, yup, no argument there, that makes sense.

but... AMD users arent telling NVIDIA users their cards are crap at gaming, this is whats happening all the time on the MADVR forum with AMD cards, AMD cards are really good HTPC cards but NVIDIA users are hammering them all the time for their HTPC abilities when they are clearly better in most situations right now and have been for ages.

owning an nvidia card is a bit like having a sports car which breaks down all the time, its sexy, its expensive, it pulls the birds but when you absolutely must get there on time, you're driving the ford focus, I know shit all about cars but you get an analogy

if NVIDIA ever sort out 3D and 23,796 they will piss all over AMD cards and ill be first in the queue but right now, when i'm watching a movie I want a steel wheels not spinning rims.

[huhn]

sorry mclingo no. back your objective fact up with something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p9lySsrYcw

there is one algorithm polaris doesn't like and that's it.

[famasfilms]

makes new thread to avoid clogging up the main madvr thread

new madvr thread descends into pedantic back and forth arguments

lol

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by huhn

sorry mclingo no. back your objective fact up with something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p9lySsrYcw

there is one algorithm polaris doesn't like and that's it.

I have to say i'm a bit lost here, are you deliberately not reading what i'm writing, if your not willing to a have reasonable discussion about this then lets stop it here.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

This is with madshi's hdr10000nitcolored test pattern:

Pass-through

https://i.postimg.cc/SxwrgJ2m/pass-through.png

madvr 800 nit target, high detail recovery

https://i.postimg.cc/15VMwGXv/madvr_tonemap.png

I don't think there is anything wrong with madVR's tone mapping, but there appears to be some double processing going on here. There is some artifacting on the left side of the pattern and the color is desaturating too fast. There should still be plenty of saturation at 1,000 nits. I would guess this would give you a worse image, not a better image with actual content.

The 2018 LG OLEDs are known to have some of the best tone mapping of any display on the market. You shouldn't need to improve the image much further.

Check out the scores for tone mapping in this TV shootout from Sound & Vision for the best high-end displays in North America: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-2018-shootout

[huhn]

Originally Posted by mclingo

I have to say i'm a bit lost here, are you deliberately not reading what i'm writing, if your not willing to a have reasonable discussion about this then lets stop it here.

• Nvidia cards are powerful cards, they are more advanced, clock for clock they probably have 40% more grunt in MADVR than an AMD and games.

NVIDIA wins hand down on gaming which equates to better performance in MADVR, no argument, and of story.

you state stuff like this.

where does nvidia wins hands down in gaming...
back your facts up!

then you come up with this:

but... AMD users arent telling NVIDIA users their cards are crap at gaming, this is whats happening all the time on the MADVR forum with AMD cards, AMD cards are really good HTPC cards but NVIDIA users are hammering them all the time for their HTPC abilities when they are clearly better in most situations right now and have been for ages.

hardware decoder support has nothing todo with HTPC?
the is not that simple.

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by Warner306

I don't think there is anything wrong with madVR's tone mapping, but there appears to be some double processing going on here. There is some artifacting on the left side of the pattern and the color is desaturating too fast. There should still be plenty of saturation at 1,000 nits. I would guess this would give you a worse image, not a better image with actual content.

The 2018 LG OLEDs are known to have some of the best tone mapping of any display on the market. You shouldn't need to improve the image much further.

Check out the scores for tone mapping in this TV shootout from Sound & Vision for the best high-end displays in North America: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-2018-shootout

Believe me I've no issue with the LG at all. I just like playing lol. Madshi isn't done with his tone mapping yet. Saturation boost is what they're testing now. Those screen shots were taken on 0.9.17 and not the new test build. With the new test build I'm able to bring saturation boost back without sacrificing details. It does sacrifice luminance so there's a balancing act going on. Like I said the LG dynamic tone mapping is very well done and I have no complaints.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Warner306]

HDR -> SDR doesn't look like that on a the same test pattern. It is an issue with HDR video output. I don't think the current test builds will help with this.

[SamuriHL]

Maybe. I really don't know. I've not played with non-HDR tone mapping since he fixed the HDR output option. Maybe I'll play around with it later.

[SamuriHL]

You should check out his latest test build. Holy snikes! I'm seriously impressed.

[iSeries]

^^ output as hdr or sdr? I saw the latest test build posted, but I assumed the improvements were for hdr to sdr conversion

[SamuriHL]

They certainly show a vast improvement in HDR output for me. The only way to know for sure is to test it.

[mclingo]

started noticing another issue with WIN 10 1809, it gettting a bit annoying.

When my deskop resizes back to 4k from 1080p my task bar is double the width and I have drag it down to normal height every time, only does this coming out of 3D movies. Its nothing to do with 3D though as I can replicate this by putting my desktop in 108p mode and switch back to 4k mode using set res, its doesnt do it every time though.

odd.


EDIT - solved that by turning off "lock tool bar", odd that its doing exactly the opposite of what it should be doing

[mclingo]

if anyone wants to pickup the OLED crushing conversation here is the place.

Personally I dont mind a slight black crush as I watch a lot of my material in pitch black with no bias lighting, this is subjective, I usually set my black clipping to 19 and above flashing.

my other settings are:

OLED 60
Brightness 52
contrast 85
gamma 2.2

[Betroz]

I will re-post here what I did in the other thread :

I am using MPC-HC, and yes of course I have set MadVr as video renderer

With these settings, both black level tests posted here show black crush :

- GPU set to Full RGB and 0-255 in Nvidia settings
- MadVr set to 0-255
- TV set to :

Black level HIGH
Gamma 2.2
Brightness 49
OLED light 50

Now the Windows desktop is brighter since I have the TV set to High in Black Level, and as I said the test pattern is very dark. I can't see all the boxes.

[Betroz]

Small update here : I have increased my TV brightness to 53, and now I pass the THX Optimizer test image for brightness. Image here : https://ibb.co/dfZPLf

Edit : The opening scene in Star Wars the last Jedi when you see the scrolling text over the dark sky with stars, with TV Black level set to Low, the black is perfect black. With Black Level set to High, black is not pitch black anymore. All this confirms my previous testing. So...

[VBB]

You're using the wrong movie to test black level. The Last Jedi doesn't have perfectly black space.

Like others have said, Black Level High is the correct match for GPU 0-255 and madVR 0-255. On my C7, the correct Brightness setting is 51. You can determine this in a dark room with your eyes adjusted. Raise Brightness one by one until you see the faintest glow. Then back it up one. Even with Brightness set correctly, though, you'll still get a bit of black crush on these OLEDs. There are some ways around that. In my case, there was a jump when going from 44 to 45 OLED Light, which allowed me to see all squares in the test pattern. Combined with a 3D LUT, this eliminated all remaining black crush.