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Old 18th December 2008, 21:23   #1  |  Link
KasparHauser
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Deliberately Terrible Compression

First of all, I'd like to say thank you to the community at large - I've learned pretty much all I know about compression from this forum and I appreciate the enormous amount of time people here devote to helping out all the newbies like me.

Recently I've become really interested in "painting" with compression. By compressing bad source, encouraging generational artifacts and other methods I've created some interesting effects, but nothing I think has been really successful. There's an artist named Takeshi Murata who does incredible work and I've been trying to figure out how. Here's an example of his footage.

My first assumption was that he was simply choosing his source footage really carefully and then encoding it with few to no I or P frames and minimal scenecut detection. I tried this out and did get /some/ smearing, but nothing as colorful as what he created. This may be due to my source footage not being crappy enough, or perhaps the wrong codec. I can't tell what he's using, but it looks more like Xvid to me than anything else.

If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!
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Old 18th December 2008, 21:42   #2  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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You could also modify the encoder to intentionally make awful decisions...
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Old 18th December 2008, 21:50   #3  |  Link
KasparHauser
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Oh! Not being much of a hacker I hadn't thought about that. Do you think that's what Murata has done (among other things)?
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Old 19th December 2008, 00:03   #4  |  Link
Ajax_Undone
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Wow I am impressed I thought encoding couldn't get any worse then this comes up... Again I say wow...

You could try encoding at a super low bitrate if your looking to duplicate his results... Maybe M$ asf
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Last edited by Ajax_Undone; 19th December 2008 at 08:59.
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Old 19th December 2008, 00:14   #5  |  Link
KasparHauser
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Thanks Ajax, I'll try it out. I don't fully understand "M$ asf"... could you help me out there?
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Old 19th December 2008, 01:31   #6  |  Link
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Try going crazy with x264's psychovisual options, and playing with deblocking.

Ajax means Microsoft's ASF format. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Systems_Format

Thanks for the link, looks very intriguing

Last edited by Ranguvar; 19th December 2008 at 04:41.
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Old 19th December 2008, 03:43   #7  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
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I really like Murata's work!

Amazing stuff.

~MiSfit
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Old 19th December 2008, 11:12   #8  |  Link
Wombler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KasparHauser View Post
First of all, I'd like to say thank you to the community at large - I've learned pretty much all I know about compression from this forum and I appreciate the enormous amount of time people here devote to helping out all the newbies like me.

Recently I've become really interested in "painting" with compression. By compressing bad source, encouraging generational artifacts and other methods I've created some interesting effects, but nothing I think has been really successful. There's an artist named Takeshi Murata who does incredible work and I've been trying to figure out how. Here's an example of his footage.

My first assumption was that he was simply choosing his source footage really carefully and then encoding it with few to no I or P frames and minimal scenecut detection. I tried this out and did get /some/ smearing, but nothing as colorful as what he created. This may be due to my source footage not being crappy enough, or perhaps the wrong codec. I can't tell what he's using, but it looks more like Xvid to me than anything else.

If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!
That looks more like sophisticated image processing than purely severe compression to me.

It appears as if he's dynamically and selectively adjusting the pixelation in patterns and also dynamically adjusting the colours.

No idea how you'd achieve this but I suspect it's a lot more work than you'd assume.


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Old 19th December 2008, 12:37   #9  |  Link
JonE
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Yep, I rekon definately a case of image processing and not compression induced.

Kinda reminds me of the crazy images you used to be able to get by pointing a camera at a monitor that was displaying the camera's output.

TTFN,
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Old 19th December 2008, 15:57   #10  |  Link
maknapper
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Wombler may me correct, but AVS video converter has an array of editing effects such as Gamma saturation, Color saturation, Tempature, Embossing... ad nuaseum as well as the ususal conversion of file types. NERO, 7 and up also offers some of the saturation and compression choices that might get close this result. Try overdriving the color if you have any such programs, then squish it down to a flash file and convert back to .avi. I once created a file that looked just that bizzare by accident, but in my frustration I I did not know I had created artwork
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Old 19th December 2008, 22:20   #11  |  Link
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If you want insane funky effects, nothing but AviSynth will do, no need for AVS or Nero, etc.

Try giving random filters insane options.
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Old 19th December 2008, 22:27   #12  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranguvar View Post
If you want insane funky effects, nothing but AviSynth will do, no need for AVS or Nero, etc.

Try giving random filters insane options.
You mean like this?

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Old 19th December 2008, 22:32   #13  |  Link
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Is that actually the same source? Wicked, I didn't know WarpSharp could make such a pronounced effect.
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Old 19th December 2008, 22:33   #14  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranguvar View Post
Is that actually the same source?
Indeed.
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Old 21st December 2008, 02:45   #15  |  Link
olyteddy
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I've done that kind of stuff using video production switchers and delay lines and feed back. Fun stuff when I was the engineer at the local Public Access TV station...
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Old 22nd December 2008, 19:00   #16  |  Link
sumawo13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
You mean like this?

I think I broke it.

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Old 23rd December 2008, 10:42   #17  |  Link
Daiz
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You haven't seen true filtering until you have tried HaloMaker3000Deluxe()!

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Old 25th December 2008, 18:45   #18  |  Link
MysticE
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You could use this as a starting source:

http://www.soundspectrum.com/g-force...T_windowsmedia
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Old 27th December 2008, 18:14   #19  |  Link
Zarxrax
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Encode the video and then corrupt or somehow delete the data for an I frame.
I don't know any easy way of doing this, aside from downloading a file through a torrent, and only letting it finish about 50%.
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Old 27th December 2008, 19:46   #20  |  Link
Sagekilla
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Another way is to a feedback loop consisting of:

Source with blurring/deblocking/smearing (avisynth)
encode from source and output as the input to the source.avs file using crappy settings (qp 35 anyone?)
Rinse, repeat.
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