apple prores and ffmpeg?

[BabaG]

is it possible to convert to prores and proreshq using ffmpeg?
what's the command? haven't found it in searching, though,
have found references implying it might be possible.

thanks,
BabaG

[Blue_MiSfit]

There is a patch floating around somewhere that loads the QuickTime binary codec on Mac OS X, but that doesn't work on Windows or Linux AFAIK. I'm not totally sure though.

I'm desperately hoping somebody writes an open-source decoder so that ffmpeg and associated tools like ffms2 and (now) x264 inherit direct ProRes support, thus negating any reason to use QuickTime for professional encoding.

~MiSfit

[nm]

Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit

There is a patch floating around somewhere that loads the QuickTime binary codec on Mac OS X, but that doesn't work on Windows or Linux AFAIK. I'm not totally sure though.

Apparently so, and it's for MPlayer/MEncoder: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/...ly/061916.html

[BabaG]

yeah. i'd just like to be able to offload transcoding to prores to another
box (linux or windows) to create files for final cut editing. been capturing
image sequences and huffyuv files and editing in prores. please post if
you hear of any developments in this area.

thanks,
BabaG

[dom_b]

mencoder does it...

you download the quicktime sdk and copy 'QTMLClient.dll' into the codecs folder of mplayer/mencoder.

Install quicktime as well.

Then use it like this:

mencoder -demuxer mov inputfile.mov -o outputfile

followed by your encode settings. One thing though is that it detects the frame rate of hd prores files as VFR and uses the wrong frame rate so you have to force it like this:

mencoder -demuxer mov -fps 25 inputfile.mov -o outputfile

[Reimar]

Originally Posted by dom_b

mencoder -demuxer mov inputfile.mov -o outputfile

followed by your encode settings. One thing though is that it detects the frame rate of hd prores files as VFR and uses the wrong frame rate so you have to force it like this:

mencoder -demuxer mov -fps 25 inputfile.mov -o outputfile

-demuxer mov is no longer required in latest SVN (r31785), removing it may or may not make it unnecessary to specify -fps.

[Blue_MiSfit]

___GASP___

I has work to do....

Derek

[Mug Funky]

http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/...ly/061918.html

this link is dead.

jobs?

btw, does this patch allow encoding to prores, or just decoding?

[nm]

Originally Posted by Mug Funky

this link is dead.

Strange, the post number seems to have changed at some point. Fixed the link now.

btw, does this patch allow encoding to prores, or just decoding?

Only decoding.

[BabaG]

nice to know this is available but the original question was about
ENCODING to prores (and proreshq). keeping fingers crossed that
this becomes available soon.

thanks,
BabaG

[nm]

Originally Posted by BabaG

nice to know this is available but the original question was about
ENCODING to prores (and proreshq). keeping fingers crossed that
this becomes available soon.

Someone would either need to write a quicktime encoding API for MEncoder, so that binary codecs could be used, or reverse engineer the ProRes format and write an encoder and a decoder for FFmpeg. Both are pretty big tasks, but the latter would probably be more interesting from the developer's point of view.

But why would anyone want to encode to ProRes when there's already DNxHD support in FFmpeg?</sarcasm>

[Reimar]

Originally Posted by nm

But why would anyone want to encode to ProRes when there's already DNxHD support in FFmpeg?</sarcasm>

Joking aside, ProRes support IMO is rather unlikely. The people doing the "difficult stuff" (i.e. reverse engineering etc.) don't really have any reason to care about it.
Isn't there some other format you can use? Like I-only H.264 in .mp4 or so? Generally a lot more painless and flexible than having to deal with proprietary formats, though I heard a lot of editing programs have really bad support for anything but their own proprietary format...

[BabaG]

nm:

it seems from the avid dnxhd page (http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/self...895#Avid_DNxHD) that dnxhd supports only up to 1920x1080. i've been using prores at 2048x1536 and above. do you know if dnxhd can work with sizes other than those articulated on the avid page? prores has had no problem. and, here in los angeles, prores has become something of a standard.

thanks,
BabaG

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by BabaG

do you know if dnxhd can work with sizes other than those articulated on the avid page?

DNxHD is limited to those resolutions and frame rates

[BabaG]

bummer. guess it's back to hoping for a reverse engineering of prores.
fwiw, just read a post from a couple of years back in which several others
were looking for the same thing. if they do it, there are probably plenty
here who would like to use it.

thanks,
BabaG

[Reimar]

Originally Posted by BabaG

there are probably plenty
here who would like to use it.

Well, if there are plenty and they obviously are all paying Apple customers, maybe they should get together and suggest to Apple to release a (at least inofficial) specification? I would suggest trying to contract some developer to implement it, but for reverse engineering that usually isn't done for several reasons (like unpredictability of how complex the task is).

[poisondeathray]

Didn't BBC fund the development of the open source version of DNxHD , and that's how it eventually made it into FFMPEG ? I doubt they would step up for ProRes development, and there's still work to be done on the DNxHD ie. It's still unfinished (e.g. no 10-bit support in the FFMPEG version)

ProRes sucks on Windows platform. Very slow compared to decoding on MAC. I think the Windows Prores decoder needs a lot of work

[kieranrk]

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

ProRes sucks on Windows platform. Very slow compared to decoding on MAC. I think the Windows Prores decoder needs a lot of work

The windows decoder has SIMD but I guess it's either rubbish or not turned on.

[Blue_MiSfit]

It is quite dreadful.

The reason ProRes is useful is that TONS OF PEOPLE USE IT It's a fantastic codec if you're a mac house. Also, many post houses standardized on it as their internal mezzanine file. Therefore, when I order a digital master of a new hollywood movie, it's cheapest if I get it in ProRes! MPEG-2 or H.264 means transcoding from this source or a fresh capture from an HDCAM-SR or something. That means a LOT more money

You can do ProRes ingest from HD-SDI for insanely cheap. An AJA card and a MacPro running Final Cut will do it. MPEG-2 / H.264 ingest requires something like a Digital Rapids, which costs a whole heck of a lot more money

Derek

[Mug Funky]

Originally Posted by Reimar

Well, if there are plenty and they obviously are all paying Apple customers, maybe they should get together and suggest to Apple to release a (at least inofficial) specification?

excuse me..

BAHAHAHAAAAA!!

yeah, of course apple's going to improve something just because paying customers request it!

sorry, but their heads are firmly up their iPads.

if a spec were released it might be shown that they violate several non-trivial Digidesign patents. IANAL, and i'm not a coder, but DNxHD and ProRes are very similar in function, speed and bitrate. i would not be surprised if they're similar in more ways.

also, i'd put it that most ProRes users aren't people who've paid for the hardware and software - they're just the people using it. try convince your boss to spend money on anything and see where it gets you if there's already a workflow in place that works "good enough".

cynicism aside, i think it would be not-too-difficult to reverse-engineer prores. but lack of 10-bit (or greater) support is really killing opensource video at the moment, at least it's in the way of it being taken seriously as a professional solution. and until ffmpeg implements meaningful 10-bit support, they'll rightly not have much interest in 10-bit formats, that are still for the most part niche, even if they are also a de-facto standard.